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23 6

How many people have had the experience of having to deal with an AYA (Angry Young Atheist). The AYA doesn't see any need for politeness or courtesy: he goes on the attack right away. He (or she) is new to atheism, so they have this almost evangelical tone. They love going to christian chats and letting loose.
They haven't been in the trenches long enough to realize that not only does the direct attack approach not work, it actually alienates their audience.
I admit I was an AYA at one time. Then I realized that wasn't working. Politeness is never wasted.

Robotbuilder 7 Mar 15
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23 comments

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11

The tone of your post seems to suggest that their anger has littlle or no validity. Perhaps is it your own assumption that is lacking.

Rude for rudness's sake would be pointless. But pointed rudness can have a lot of utility.

It's a lashing out anger: the sort of anger that is equivalent to painting graffiti on a wall, rather than working to change things. I've seen AYAs go on discussion boards, and say things like "THERE IS NO GOD," not to change minds, not to present an idea, but just to attempt to shock. The actual arguments are more complex, more subtle-- and more convincing.

Anger may be invalid in rationale discourse, but to ignore its existence is not rationale. I think atheists have plenty of reasons to be openly hostile to so-called believers, be they organized or otherwise. The Crudades, the Holocaust, and 9-11 come immeadiately to mind.

9

They don't bother me. The ones that bother me are the old Christian politicians who are trying to change the laws in this country to match "Christian values" and remove women's rights, make it ok to teach creationism in schools, chip away at the separation of church and state and refuse to do anything about mass shootings.
They are eroding the principles this country was built on.

I don't think being politically correct, and tiptoeing around religious people is going to change anything. Maybe standing up for what's true will.

Valid.

8

Can you think of a more appropriate response to discovering you've been fooled for the majority of your life?

Marz Level 7 Mar 15, 2018
6

They have a right to an actng out period in this country.

It takes a few years to learn that raised volume is not the best way to be heard.

5

We've got a few of those folks on here. That attitude isn't for me. I'll take a pass on the whole rageing against the gnostic machine thing.

Life is far too short to be going off on some time wasting crusade against a bunch of dim bulbs who believe that a sky fairy with a white beard sits on a cloud and watches in judgement over us all. I'd much rather spend the limited time I have in this life traveling, getting laid and having as much fun as possible with my friends.

Work and other obligations already take up too much time I'd rather be using for the aforementioned pursuits. If I'm going to add to that time, I'd rather do so by participating in the arena of politics where I can make a difference that actually matters.

Let the sky fairy believers believe what ever cockamamie bullshit they like, so long as they keep that crap out of the halls of my government.

Oh we definitely have a few on here.

When theists claim that atheism is a religion, I'm sure it's precisely that sort of outburst that they have in mind. The evangelical "Must convert everyone to my way of thinking. It isn't enough for me to know that I'm right, I will not rest until I have stamped everyone who disagrees into the ground or brought them around to my way of thinking" attitude exists on both sides of the fence. It isn't constructive, for either side.

Well, i mean you could use the same argument against promoting your policies. Why bother with anything? I think it's important to raise the consciousness of other people.

I wouldn't have the ideas i have today if i didn't listen to people who were coming at this from the other side.

4

I came to solid atheism from a state of not really caring. So I don't really have any pent up anger to release. As a result, I don't troll or do the ironic evangelism thing, but if someone goes on the offensive against me, I calmly destroy them. If anything, it's a lot more fun than attacking the religious.

4

It is the same way with the believers. Being overbearing only alienates people. Let alone it's rude and out of line. Do I think that the believers are foolish for choosing the path they have? Of course! It's nonsensical. I it gives them strength though, I'm all for anything. Whether they are AYA or AOldA, they're difficult to deal with. I have found that the ones probed to be angry don't lose that with age. Their contempt for the world overrides their caring for other people amd maturity no matter the age.

4

I think we've all been there. Years of pent up frustration and anger. Heck I'm still there on bad days. When I see all the things Christians are doing to make my life miserable there are times I just have to vent. So I'm very sympathetic to the AYA as ya name em. But you're right. Evangelizing and attacking people is not our job and its way more productive to be less aggressive. But It's something that you can't just teach, it's something everyone has to come to on their own. People should be proud if they can overcome the struggle and still come out polite. And for the people who can't let go of the anger, we can condemn it but also just understand where they're coming from. They might not be sure what to say or feel like anyone's on their side, so it's important to be there for them too.

3

The more I'm subjected to having what the believers want forced upon me, the angrier I become. Sometimes, anger is totally justified, and expressing it is completely reasonable.

It’s strange how true that is … yet take someone like Madalyn Murray O’Hair.. She’s pissed, aggrieved, threatened, attacked, and eventually murdered ... thus angry -- and gets shit for that even around here! Anger has it’s place, I both get and respect that, but there’s also a price to be paid… I thank, admire, and praise those knowing when and how to use it.. so I don’t always have to ~

@Varn Agreed. I don't buy into the mindset that anger is always a bad thing. I've learned to use my anger as a motivator in a number of ways. I also agree with your last sentence, in spades!!!

3

Beats an AOE (Angry Old Evangelical).

godef Level 7 Mar 15, 2018

Every damned time, too!

3

its not so much an angry young athiest, but more like just an angry athiest. Age doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. its important to recognise the difference between rational critique of ideas and hatred. But I agree there are some very angry athiests out there.

3

Even early on in my time as an atheist I shyed away from conflict with Christians, I haven't seen the point in conversing with them since almost all in my area can't be swayed with any argument.

3

LOL! I'm still sort of an AOA (angry old agnostic) because I got into a few dust-ups at website I used to frequent, for missionary kids (MKs).

3

I know some AOAs too. Angry Old Atheists can be just as obnoxious.

JK666 Level 7 Mar 15, 2018

LOL. 🙂

2

Interesting point.. On one of my few trips home from college on the city bus (instead of my car), I listened to several AYA’s verbally beating down a religionist ‘our age.’ I couldn’t help but smile at some their points, agreeing totally, but their hostility, arrogance, and gang mentality reminded me of it’s religious equivalent...

Kept looking out the window … while ingraining within my brain that I’d not be that kind of Atheist. It’s rare when we’re not outnumbered (this place is a thrill), so I’ve rarely if ever had an opportunity to gang up (try picketing a pope), but would never want to be viewed equally hostile to a relitionite … though that’s not always easy..

Varn Level 8 Mar 15, 2018
1

The militant atheist is a lot like the militant Christian in one way. They both claim to know the unknowable. Since no proof of there claims is available, they must resort to shouting their claims in people's faces. As an agnostic, I can say that god as portrayed in the bible seems extremely unlikely. But do I know that for sure? OF COURSE NOT, because it is unknowable, and that is ok....... "that is ok" is where the peace is.

1

AYA seems to only be a thing for old exhausted anybodies.

Approach is important as you will catch more zombies with fresh flesh rather than rotten flesh.

To any angry atheist I would say, "Your anger may be valid, but is your anger worth sacrificing your position?"

Also, politeness can absolutely be wasted, just like anything else.

1

I don't think it's impolite to disagree with someone. That's the kind of attitude id like to change. I'm happy there are militants, but I agree there has to be a forum for that. A Christian site would be preaching decovertance to the converted. It's just a waste of time

@TheMiddleWay I think most people would be insulted just because you call them on their bullshit. Even if you're polite.

0

Fortunately not

0

Ive seen a few on FaceBook and I just slither away ...............

0

I think you're just describing a common subset of young people of any stripe. Some of them take awhile to acquire epistemological humility; a few of those never do. It happens. Not unique to atheism, either.

0

Yah, I've had my share of those. I've even met a couple on here. Ironically, the angrier they are, the more they represent their fundamentalist counterparts. There's something about anger that seems to isolate and causes them to act just like fundamentalists.

0

My grown son is a passionate atheist, but the God he doesn't believe in is nothing like my personal concept of God. THEN he pulls out one of the many books I've given him...he is very angry, so angry that one of his uncles asked if he'd been abused by a proiest.

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