Where did you first learn about God?
Did you grow up wondering about all the fuss about religion? Was it at home or from friends? Traditionally it's from family, but these days kids depend a lot more on their peers.
Might it be that this is a good thing?
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As I'm nearly as old as Methuselah, I was taught about God and Jesus in Sunday school and Catholic church. But during WW2 I was evacuated to Wales, so was sent to chapel ("Hell and Damnation..." ) Then I married a lovely Jewish man and was instructed in the Jewish religion.But all the time,my grey matter was thinking, thinking, and now I'm a Humanist. I can see and reason with most...humans and am fascinated by them. God is another matter... Joy Lennick
Joyforhumanity
Level 2
Aug 29, 2019
3
GROG:
Lovely, Joy. Thanks. I'm getting up there too. GROG
I was born into a Moron (oops, Mormon) family, so I was born and raised in a constant brainwashing from my parents, Sunday School teachers, and friends at the church. I was age 30 before I did my homework and discovered that it was all a scam.
BestWithoutGods
Level 8
Aug 26, 2019
3
GROG:
My family was More-Mon too, but not much into church going, so I didn't get a full indoctrination. Scam is the word I like to use too. It is a scam promising an afterlife for just 10%.
My mother tried to brainwash me as a kid by having me read books about the story of Adam and Eve, and other shit.
The normal mother's gambit for the son is to try to make him weak, either directly or indirectly, and ultimately in all aspects, including the mental. The normal mother tries to play with assumptions, gaslight, bust balls, etc. in an attempt to make herself less nervous around someone who might already be more intelligent and generally just more mature than her by elementary school age.
She comes from an authoritarian country, and her whole side of the family don't like insensitivity and differential thinking from others, so irreligion, amoralism, etc. are an insult to them that they receive pretty negatively.
It didn't really stick, once I discovered what science is about in the third grade. When I was thirteen, I discovered atheism formally, and when I was fifteen, I discovered agnosticism formally. When I was about 21, I took a course in Judaism, and that's where I started on theosophy directly. These days, I hold a profound, proven conviction for agnosticism, because theism is really just words.
I also regularly attend a Reform Synagogue, being someone who, of partial ethnic Jewish descent, is passively trying to become Jewish. Judaism is a rational belief system. Jews value intelligence, so I don't have to withhold my mind's deliberations, and I don't have to worry about being taken the wrong way. I also don't have to worry about being mistreated because I might be viewed as an enemy to creationist folk.
I have some religious literature on my reading list like "The Complete Sayings of Jesus" because learning about religious knowledge contributes to my growing paradigm about how the world works.
I think it's better to just let kids be fully aware of and literate about the different subject matter out there, the importance of knowing as much as possible and how deep it all goes. Trying to make a child's life about religion vs. irreligion is authoritarian, and mentally abusive. If God in that mystical sense of the word exists, he doesn't even care if you heard about him, and he doesn't care if you believe in him or not, because he's God and the Godhead makes no erroneous assumptions, ever. He never once gave humans any means of proving he exists, so he doesn't expect any of them to think he does, and if they do, then they'd just be his defective creations, which would kind of contradict the idea of God, here.
It tends to contribute to the child being imperfectly educated, and mentally underdeveloped because the child would less likely become able to inference from given information, assess or truth, etc. .
DZhukovin
Level 7
Aug 28, 2019
1
GROG:
You have an interesting perspective on mothers and parenting. Parents learn how to be a parent, and a person even, from their own parents.
You say, "These days, I hold a profound, proven conviction for agnosticism, .." I'm interested. What supports (briefly) your profound conviction? I have one too. Wanna share? GROG
GROG:
@Fred_Snerd The abuse of children is the most dehumanizing of offenses. A parent that is not a good parent was, for the most part, made that way by their own ignorant and traumatized parents. Education is our only salvation in both parenting and false belief in heaven. GROG
@GROG
Sure. I wrote my thoughts on the existence of God(s) here. It's good at driving home that deities are really just words that people handle with different levels of completeness. The layman views religious memetics as physical assumptions. Intelligent people know what scripture might be saying, and they don't bother with spooked beliefs because more or less, they realize the things I talk about in this link:
@Fred_Snerd Do you think your mother got hers afterward, or did she get away with committing those abuses?
My mother kind of admitted to the same thing. She got back from vacation with her boyfriend and she said "____ was so good to me, spending all of his money on me", more or less. It was actually extremely cringey. She even tried to tell me that once I'm in my next job, my first paycheck should go to her. I think she was trying to control my differential decision making and use it as part of a thermodynamic trickle-gambit, to mold me into something that can be used. It would have satisfied every motive she had: 1. Money 2. Approbation 3. Comfort 4. Therapy, etc. . Her kind of person is trying to consume others. Basically by being aggressive towards my income routine, she would have been able to create weak-points to throw me off my ambitions as a person.
It's actually really repulsive and sick that people try to do these things, and get away with it. Manipulation is unethical and illegal, but that taboo law doesn't really get enforced.
It was probably from that "now I lay me down to sleep" prayer. I seem to have learned that so young that I don't remember a time before it.
BitFlipper
Level 8
Aug 28, 2019
2
GROG:
Prayer, a rather insidious system of thought transfer to children. The child is so innocent with a brain so eager to learn about the world, and it gets short circuited by loving, but ignorant, parents. GROG
Brainwashed upon exiting the womb until I was fortunate and came to my senses and figured out it was the biggest con game of all time.
fedup
Level 6
Aug 27, 2019
2
Where could I go to catch a break from learning about god is a better question. Devout mom, raised in church, Christian school, moms family was a gospel singing group so i was often dragged to extra church events, concerts and revivals throughout the week. Sometimes week or two week stretches of Christian school every weekday and church every weeknight in addition to weekends. Several vacation bible schools most summers. The only miracle is that I can think straight at all, sometimes. Earliest memories are being taught shame and self consciousness in Christian pre school, and learning to recite catechisms like a brainwashed zombie acolyte. As opposed to this, it’s definitely better that kids are learning things from their friends. They need strong scientifically minded adult role models too though.
Wurlitzer
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
2
GROG:
Ah, fear not cautious pilgrim! The world is there spread for you before your feet. "Do you wanna take another step, pilgrim?"
Well, what a hell of a lot of things to do to a child, and so unnecessary. You got all three barrels. Congratulations on making it through.
Our only hope is education and the knowledge of humanity's place in the universe.GROG
When I was a child I thought someone called Mr God (the Germans call this thing Herrgott, Herr equivalent of Mister) was the Trump of graveyards and churches, a major real estate tycoon. Later I heard something about a bloke called Jesus. Somehow I didn't get the connection. My parents were practising atheists.
PontifexMarximus
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
2
GROG:
Wow. I imagine having parents speaking rationally about beliefs and believers must have been an affirming experience of the human condition. GROG
It’s so ubiquitous you might as well ask me about the first time I heard of Donal Duck. I have no idea.
indirect76
Level 7
Aug 26, 2019
2
GROG:
Who told you that god doesn't exist? Don't heathens talk about what they believe and teach how to behave in the group?
@GROG Nobody told me that god doesn’t exist and I don’t tell people how to behave.
GROG:
@indirect76 Good, You figured it out for yourself. Ultimately that is what every one must do. But just because God has been put aside it doesn't mean freedom from the insanity of messianic monotheism. GROG
@GROG There wasn’t anything to figure out. I did figure out that Santa did not exist because at on time I did believe in him. I can’t say the same for god.
You mean, get indoctrinated with silliness?
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Aug 26, 2019
2
GROG:
And another correct answer. Brain infestation with a space for a heavenly father and an imagined universe to keep him in. Talk about heaven... my mother's banana cream pie!
Somewhere in my early childhood, i had an illustrated book about the bible, or some such. I can recall seeing the color plate of a "God Sky," with the sun's rays pouring through clouds, and maybe there was a standard bearded old white man god illustration,as well.
I do not know why I had that book, as I was brought up by grandparents, and my g'father was a devout atheist! Anyway, he taught me to question received wisdom, said he'd been encouraged,as a young man, to question religious material. One of his favorite sayings regarding stories was "Was you there, Charlie"?
BirdMan1
Level 8
Aug 30, 2019
2
GROG:
Great story. Thanks. Isn't it amazing where and how we all end up?
Ending up! I hope you are not the way of the latest demonstration of God's power .
Even as a child I could see that the stories of the bible were no different than my parents explanation of thunder being creatures bowling up in the clouds, simple stories to explain what primitive peoples couldn't understand at the time. Learning the real causes of things like thunder and lightening which as a small child had terrified me made this even more plain ancient cultures created their religions to explain and comfort them against what they feared in their world. Later I learned to see that most of what the bible was relating was for the most part a refection of how the human mind of the time worked and for that matter still does.
Travler
Level 5
Aug 27, 2019
1
It was crammed down my throat in Sunday School where my parents insisted we go. The parents did not go...they had some do gooder pick us (my three brothers and I), and take us each Sunday morning. I was bored and hated it. It go so I would wake up with a headache on Sunday morning. I still resent the disingenuous and forced indoctrination.
dahermit
Level 7
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
Well, that is all in the past now and you are not the same person you were then. Thanks for your thoughts. It is a bit baffling when parents insist that their children do something that they won't do. GROG
@GROG Sometime later they began attending also...that did not change anything, I was bored out of my mind with the stupid shit that was being peddled...there is nothing more boring than a flannelgraph story. Well, except maybe community singing...as an Asperger's Syndrome person, the boredom was painful. The forced social interaction was likewise painful.
For me it wasn't really till I was in me 30's. I mean I did hear some, but didn't really delve into learning till about 2000, which coincides with the internet really taking off.
I had the fortune of not have been grown up in a religious household, so it wasn't really a big topic. I did have some friends that were believers. but again, it really was never a big topic.
However. Once I did start learning about religion. Well, to be fair I should say religions, since I did a good amount of reading on quite a few..
I think that the thing that i found about most of them, (especially the Bible) was that not only are they bad reads, but so chock full of jiberish, and nonesense. Contradictory more than not. and most of it was so silly to the point that I was taken back at the fact that so many actually believe that shit.
I still don't get it.
TristanNuvo
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
So, you don't remember thinking about other mythical creatures like Santa Claus or ghosts when you were young? I don't think anyone ever told me about god, but that there was another world called heaven was taken for granted. GROG
@GROG Actually, no. The whole Santa, and ghosts, pretty much anything "supernatural" for lack of a better word, was just talked about with a bit of humor. Pretty much on the same level as comic book heros, or any other type of fiction.
It wasn't untill I was older that I really came to realize just how un-orthodox my upbringing was. Which is a shame.
GROG:
@TristanNuvo ` No shame, life is a single and unique path cluttered with possibilities and we do our best to make it through, not really knowing how it will all end. GROG
55+ years ago, it was definitely not from my peers. We didn't really talk about religion as children back then, at least not that I can recall.
First place I ever learned ABOUT God would have been in catechism, so 1st grade. I had a hard time believing the stories and a hard time memorizing the prayers which meant nothing to me, but were required to be learned before my first communion, which also didn't make sense to me. (Pretend to eat the body of Jesus?)
We didn't talk ABOUT God or Jesus at home, we had a large Catholic family with many other things going on, but we did say grace before dinner, and my grandma made us say prayers before bed when we visited her, she had to guide us, as we didn't say prayers at home. Saying prayers didn't ever resonate with me, until after I learned ABOUT God and angels and such in catechism, and then couldn't understand why bad things would still happen regardless of prayer or no prayer.
My parents didn't force me to go church as I got older and I was excused from going to catechism and getting "confirmed" as all my siblings were. I was also the only one of my siblings who didn't get married in the church. I got a pass - and am the only outspoken atheist - though I'm pretty sure only one of my siblings attends church regularly now, still 50+ years later
Julie808
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
Good story, but what about before 1st grade. You prayed at home. Did you mother tell you about heaven and being good? To me, it seems we pick up so much about the world unconsciously or it is just that we just can't remember. Where were you in birthing order? I think that makes a difference too.
@GROG I'm #4 out of 5 kids. My older sister would put me to bed, and didn't make me say prayers. We didn't pray at home, except to say grace before dinner. It was said so fast, by all, I never really wondered too much about what was being said.
It was actually my atheist grandmother (maternal) that would have us say our prayers before bed at her house, since she thought that's what we should do since her daughter (my mother) married a Catholic man and converted. Funny when we stayed with my other grandmother, a super religious lady, I don't recall having to say prayers, we'd sleep in the back yard under the stars with cousins. It was party time, next door to the church. (My grandma's back gate opened into the church parking lot, she attended church EVERY MORNING, no joke. We didn't have to attend daily, thank goodness. Only on Sundays for us.)
What I learned in Catechism about God surprised me, and it didn't make sense. It wasn't backed up at home. The only time I remember hearing the word God at home was pretty much my dad swearing, haha! He swore like a sailor (was in the navy) and so once I learned about praying at Catechism, I gave it a try, though not kneeling at my bed like my grandma would have me do. I'd just pray while laying down in my bed, silently, since I shared a room with my little sister. Didn't work for me.
GROG:
@Julie808 So, you were almost the baby of the family.
I never knew my paternal grandmother, but the other one was a corker. She was really against the Mormon church. During the depression, people looking for work passed through her small town in Utah and the Church refused to help them if they weren't Mormon. I think that was it for her.
@GROG I knew both my grandmothers. One was atheist, though she kept a bible on her end table (it helped her with crossword puzzles she said.) The other went to church daily (to repent for being pregnant with my dad when she married my grandfather) and as far as I know didn't even own a bible. Funny, she's not the one who made us go to church - it was my atheist grandma who assumed we were being raised to go to church and pray before bed.
When I actually learned about praying and had to memorize the Lord's Prayer and Hail Mary, I could repeat it, but had no idea what the words meant. (Hallowed be thy name, etc.) I might as well have been saying supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, for all that mattered. I didn't understand lots of things, like why we said "gesundheit" which we pronounced ga-zoooon-tite, when we sneezed or "oopsiedaisy" when we fell. They were just rote words and phrases we'd say at appropriate times, with no meaning for me.
It was more a process. As soon as I was able to read "Dick and Jane" books, I was also required by my mom to read catholic prayers. They were posted on the refrigerator and on various objects of art around the house. I remember me and my siblings reading them in unison every Sunday or something like that.
But the goal, as I remember it, was always to get to heaven. It had less to do with "God" than being on the path that would get me into heaven. God just happened to be the guy who ran heaven. Probably because my dad was not a catholic and a very lax baptist and my grand-dad thought the Bible to be a book of ridiculous fables.
So, as I remember it again (I have a brother who is a devout Christian and he basically had the same experience) Dad agreed to make us read and learn the stuff necessary to get into the catholic version of heaven so Mom would be satisfied, and Mom agreed Dad didn't have to attend catholic masses except on holidays.
redbai
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
Thanks for your response. That "getting into heaven" rings a bell with me. I seem to remember thinking how selfish people were because they were only good so they could get into heaven! Shades of Santa Claus. Good luck with what's left. GROG
From my parents, the church and school. Baptized Catholic at 1 month old and Catholic schools for most of my school years.
Appleriver
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
You seem to have had a pretty firm grounding for belief in heaven and heavenly beings. Did that just slip away?
@GROG My faith in Religion went out the door when trump got elected. I saw Christianity in a whole new light and I didn't like what I saw. I can honestly say that once I got out of school I went less and less to church. I was slowly just disillusioned over time and trump and his cult pretty much sealed the fate on my beliefs
GROG:
@Appleriver Well, young lady, your disenchantment with God is very recent. When did you realize that your parents had lied about Santa Claus? (friendly joke) . Can you look at religion(s) and see the scam? How people have been deluded for centuries and scammed all the way by charlatans all too eager to take your tithing. The thing that bothers me about tRump is that he is crazy enough to be idolized into believing that it is up to him to bring on Armageddon! GROG
@GROG Santa isn't real??? LOL When I look at religion now all is see is a sect trying to control groups of people. It's all about control.They interpret the Bible whichever way they want. Basically when I look at it I see man's words not a Gods. The day trump was signing Bibles I couldn't believe how gullible his cult was. They really do believe he's God's Chosen one. If that's what God chooses I am really glad I saw the scam and fled from Religion. I believe he is crazy enough to do that as well. He is dying to use those nukes. The man is unstable. Scary times we live in now.
GROG:
@Appleriver Yes, it is all about control. The early scammers were the shamans who stood hand in hand with or were the clan leaders. In the beginning it was a rather innocent scam, but with the advent of the unstable messianic monotheists, it is to humankind's great detriment to still be saddled with this delusion of the supernatural. Hey, I guess I got carried away. GROG
I didn't even know there was such a thing as religion until I was 5 or 6. I went next door to see if Maureen could come out and play. Maureen informed me that she couldn't play with me anymore because I was a Jew. I said "What's a Jew?" And she said "You killed Christ". To which I replied "Who's Christ?" She was never allowed to play with me again. At that point I decided that god was a dick. Religion is such a lovely thing.
TheoryNumber3
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
It is really too bad that your parents didn't give you the skills to defend yourself against such bigotry . With Jewish parents, didn't they mention anything about their faith? I have heard that many Jews are now "secular Jews", but I'm not sure what that means. Are the Jews really still waiting for the Messiah or have they unofficially given up on the dream? Do you read Christopher Hitchens?
Its your own fault for killing Jesus. You must be really, really, old. 
@dahermit I didn't really mean to kill him. It was self defense. Yeah, that's it.
@TheoryNumber3 The sums a bitch likely had it comming.
@GROG I was 5 or 6, and at that age, I had no conscious knowledge of anything even culturally Jewish. My family was never particularly religious, and obviously, I'm an agnostic. We had Seders at Passover, and family get togethers at Hanukkah, but I don't remember them ever going to temple. So I can't answer your questions. I have friends who are somewhat religious, but we don't discuss it. Yes, I've heard of Christopher Hitchens and I've seen him on TV, and I'm aware of his views, but I haven't read his books.
Sunday school indoctrination.
Serenityseeker
Level 7
Aug 27, 2019
1
Parents ) Not much really though, god would be just mentioned every now and then in conversations mostly to ensure we behave ) But there was no mentioning of a religion as my father was skeptical of it and mother supported that.
Sonya
Level 4
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
The typical scenario.. if parents are believers, their children are more likely to contract the delusion. Comment: Great Britain seems to be in a bit of a wog with the Brexit mess. How did this happen? iGROG
GROG:
@Sonya With the advent of the digital world, greed has kept pace with technology. Now it is possible to scam the whole world. The entire world is in some kind of mess. It is like everyone is going crazy with the people who are supposed to be running things. Anyway, girl, keep a stiff upper lip as they say. Ho, ho, hehe what a fine world this might be. Wishing you good luck over there. GROG
My parents encouraged us to go to whatever sunday event we were invited to. We went. Including on buses. I remember little of the activities. Must be because my parents did not reinforce any of it.
Mum attended catholic school. She hated her childhood. How could one not?
The father dude was raised by a family of holy-rollers. (A congregation of the truly intelligently-limited. Yet as significantly determined to make a meaning of their lives as any human I have met.) So, he comments were mostly anti-religious.
After 14 years growing in a suburb of Detroit, I was a teenager, living in Frankenmuth, Michigan, lutheran belief at its best. Many of my friends were church non-goers.
It was the late 60's and early 70's. We all explored many avenues to heaven. I found none useful outside of the here-and-now.
I learned about Alan Watt's ideas. Still a fan.
The first marriage included a family of believement. The wife repeatedly admonished me for engaging. How could i not? I was a teen, and twenties-something, who lived though that period of history in a rural mostly immigrant, white, american, farm community.
None of the people i have spent time around during the past 35 years ever talk, or mention, anything religious. There are people in the group we know are believers. Never any promotion.
So, I had not a memorable thought about any of the invisible all-powerful imaginary-friend stuff until about 5 years ago when i discovered Christopher Hitchens. Until then, I was not aware of how many of the humans on the planet are infected with such magical imaginings. How many years before enough become truly enlightened?
JacarC
Level 8
Aug 27, 2019
1
GROG:
Well, your last paragraph said it all. Hitchens: so brilliant and human. GROG
The church gave me last rights when I was one month old, so you can say I was born into it.
kiramea
Level 7
Aug 26, 2019
1
GROG:
There must be a story of life threatening dimensions to your "last rights" event. Oh, and the story of your elucidation? GROG
@GROG I was in the hospital under an oxygen tent with blood transfusions in my head, dying of plural pneumonia. I was so anemic that my parents didn't know I was ill until I turned blue and stopped breathing (anemia will keep you from running a temp. Once they got enough iron in me, my temp shot up to 106)
GROG:
@kiramea Purely unscientific. It seems in my experience that girl babies are stronger. Maybe the YY is stronger that the XY combination. My mother and her sister married brothers. Each had eight children. Mom's sister had 4 boys and 4 girls, all lived to maturity. Mom had 6 boys and 2 girls and only 2 boys and the two girls lived to maturity. Probably with a larger sampling it would be even? GROG
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