Agreed. Does it happen a lot to you?

I wouldn't say a lot, but I've definitely been there.

I'm sure some women do get really nasty but I would say it's not uncommon for me to get death threats, rape threats or just called nasty names. "It goes both ways" is accurate technically but it paints a picture of equality which I'm pretty sure isn't the case.

@klang72 I do not believe for a fucking minute you are getting inundated with threats of death and rape. It goes both ways is more than accurate, it is fact.

@Sticks48 You can believe whatever you want to but if you read more of this thread you'll find that treatment isn't uncommon. You have to remember you were dating before the internet and things have changed a lot.

@Sticks48 But you're here I assume as a man of science so don't take my word for it. I invite you to make yourself an online dating profile with a picture of a woman and start talking to men and eventually rejecting them. Record your data and let us know.

@klang72 On line is all bullshit. If they don't know where you live it doesn't matter. People say shit on line because of anonymity. All this crap on line is not the real world. I am talking face to face rejection, not this make believe world.

@klang72 This isn't the real world. This is whatever people want to pretend to be.

@Sticks48 That's probably exactly what the men doing all that BS think. But I'm a real person with real feelings and having a computer in between doesn't change that. I had a guy use my photo to find my facebook to find my place of work and show up there. I was a kindergarten teacher at the time so it really freaked me out. I could probably find you with not all that much effort. (I never would because that's messed up- just to be clear.) People have been fired for what they say online. Your online persona is an extension of yourself, especially when you attach things like your picture to it. Just be careful what you say. (Again, not a threat. Just friendly advice.)

@Sticks48 Also- is your argument that it's perfectly fine to threaten people online because online isn't real? Just trying to figure out what you're saying here.

@klang72 You don't have to be on line. if you are on line you don't have to put out any more info than you want to. You see it here all the time. Say what you will, this is not real life. Hence the use of "IRL" continuously online. If this is a persons "real world", they have some very deep issues. This is meant to be a tool not a lifestyle.

@klang72 I'm not saying it is fine. I am saying it is to be expected because of anonymity. People get awfully brazen when you are not face to face. I see people on here all the time saying shit they would never say if they were face to face with people. Face to face these men probably would not even approach you to ask you out. I am not saying women don't have to be careful, but that is a different subject.

@Sticks48 What are you actually trying to say? You're avoiding answering my questions. If women get harassed online it's their own fault for being there? Is it ok to threaten people because it's "not real"? If you had a daughter or a wife and she was online and some stranger was sending her messages saying he was going to find her and kill her would that be cool with you? Should women have to give up using the internet because of the behaviors of men? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying and I'd like some clarification.

@klang72 No, you just want to argue. You can walk down a dark alley at night if you so desire and live with the consequences. There can be consequences to putting too much personal information online. That is up to each individual to decide. You aren't going to change it, I'm not going to change it.It is what it is. You can get involved online as much or as little as you like. As with most things in life, there are tradeoffs. You have to decide which tradeoffs are worth it.

@Sticks48 Just because I'm not letting what you're saying go, doesn't mean I just want to argue. I'm going to call you out just like I'm going to call out any guy perpetuating rape culture and victim blaming. Your "dark alley" comment makes your stance pretty clear. You've really made an example of yourself.

@klang72 good idea. People who have commented here should run a test such as that. From both sides. I have to say, vulgarites often come to my profile in a first message from men. Many times a first contact is a horrible personal attack based on my photo or a coment about why i am single. I always block them with no reply. But why would some one go out of their way to attack someone whom they didnt even know. Baffles me.

Hmm didn't you also have a president with his penis in an intern's mouth? What was that?

@FrayedBear I'm sure we've had many.

@valerina IMO No point in being coy or only recognizing it in one flavour of politics.

@FrayedBear I've only been on this planet for 30some years, I don't remember a lot about US history, especially leaders and POTUS, but for real though... I've seen Scandal, shit goes down and we'll never know lmao!

@FrayedBear but to be more on point... Trump is my least favorite.

@valerina Each has their own quota of abominable traits. I often espouse the expression "the only good politician is a dead politician and I haven't read of any of them".

@FrayedBear agreed! Lol

@FrayedBear If you cannot see the monstrous difference between a president privately having consensual sex with another adult and a president behaving in a sociopathic fashion towards pretty much the entire globe, you lack the minimum required to have a discussion that is not an entire waste of time.
Also your confession about the expression "he only good politician is a dead politician and I haven't read of any of them" shows a lack of understanding of the democractic system, that makes it frigthening that you participate in it.

@josmi6699 and what have you done about your democratic system or contributed to @valerina's question?

Your democratic system hasn't worked since the day the constitution was created - when were N. American Africans given the vote?

Who is still disenfranchised today?

Who can have the opinion "none of the presenting candidates are fit to represent me" counted at the polling booth?

I recall that your president with a propensity for oral sex claimed that it wasn't sex - how childish is that and why is it still a crime in many states?

Wasn't it also the same bunch of oral masturbators who fired a woman head of US Health for having the audacity to talk about the benefits of masturbation?

What is frightening is your inability to reason beyond the capacity of your brain , its cognitive dissonance and the quantum of indoctrination and spin doctoring that it has managed to absorb. LMAO

@FrayedBear I cannot argue with the brilliance of your argument "LMAO" and rest my case. Life is too short for this.

Oh yes. Men who were dying to get you into bed or "treat you like the princess you are" will suddenly call you fat,ugly, slutty,bitchy. "You're not that hot anyway, I just wanted to get laid" etc. Women sometimes get physically attacked,even murdered for rejecting men.
It's gross and it's really common.

I'm guessing it's very related to age.

@RavenCT IDK there's pretty strong historical evidence that this behavior has been going on for hundreds of years.

@Blindbird I think the older men get the less testosterone - the less acting out behaviors.

Some are stuck that way for life though.

I worked at a Battered Women's shelter over 30 years ago. Nothing seems to change.

@RavenCT it really doesn't. All we can do is raise our kids better. Thank you for the work you've done.
You may be correct about men aging out if those behaviors. Spousal abuse was rife in my family but as my uncle's aged,you'd swear butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

@Blindbird Thank you!

I hope I'm at least a little right. Means I have less of this to deal with. Thought "Boy toy" comes to mind? lol

@RavenCT well in the reading I've done, the general idea seems to be that most of the violence centers around mating rights and ensuring paternity probably means that you and I are not likely to trigger those behaviors even in younger men.

@Blindbird Too true!

@Beach_slim what is dishonest about not being attracted to someone?!!

@Beach_slim what a load of horseshit.

@Stacey48 which basically boiled down to "my feelings were hurt so I'm totally justified in being a horrible ass because I'm a guy and that's just what we do".

That is one of the best explanations of toxic masculinity I have come across. Thank you.

Yes. Well said. Thank you.

I think you nailed it... again nicely stated.

Well said, growing up in the 50's & 60's I pretty much observed the same.

I also replied to this post... but you said it so much better than I.

@Troy ah and here we see the classic"blame the victim " approach. Thanks for playing, spot the misogynist!

@Troy your point is flawed and your logic pathetically transparent. Don't blame me or feminism for your weak arguments. Think better.

@Troy seriously, though, your answer to men being abusive when turned down is for women to understand men better. Women actually understand men relatively well (relative to men understanding women) because we HAVE to understand men because, again, our safety and survival depends on it.

You couldn't have said this better.

So much this! A valid point.

I fully agree with this assessment. I didn't consider this post to be about the incels though. Just men being jerks when rejected. Incels are a completely different beast than the general population. Women have much more to be concerned with in general where rejection happens. I didn't address that with my comment simply because I did not read that as part of the original question in the post. I don't feel that it's a level playing field at all. I do believe that women are as easily pissed off though when they do make advances and men reject them. The aftermath can be much worse where men are rejected. There is no doubt there. In my experience, it's much more rare for women to actually be the one rejected. The number of times I rejected women is far fewer than the number of times I've been rejected. I have never been insulting with my response. I've always been pretty gracious and expressed flattery. Still, it didn't always end nicely. Some just don't know how to handle rejection regardless of gender.

One of the sweet things about being male is that you don't automatically have to take your personal safety into consideration when dealing with the opposite sex. This is something most women do so constantly that it often becomes unconscious habit. Something as simple as walking outdoors alone can be a huge risk for us, and the risk escalates if we have pissed off a man for any reason, intentionally or unintentionally, or even without realizing we have done so. As you say, although I have experienced sexual/romantic rejection and am familiar with how painful it can be, it hasn't happened very frequently. But most women are accustomed to being rejected often in arenas other than romantic, we are accustomed to being interrupted when we speak, we are accustomed to having it assumed that we don't understand things and need to have them explained to us by a man, we are accustomed to waiting our turn even when our turn keeps getting pushed back by the priorities of someone who considers his own far more important, we are accustomed to being assessed for merit purely on the basis of how we look, and hell, we are even accustomed to having to quickly step out of the way of the path of an oncoming man in order to keep from getting body slammed on the sidewalk.

I was thirteen years old the first time a guy tried to rape me in a parking lot after saying I wasn't interested. That same week the lady downstairs was raped and her stomach was cut up. I'd be shocked if most men lived with this type of fear

It's so true!

nice one

Most of by friends are female and I hear about it happening all the time. Plus worse things.

I try not to. Lol

Well for someone who doesn't talk to people...you're sure watching them, aren't you? And your observations are on point.

@Freespirit64 yeah, humans are fascinating animals

@NothinnXpreVails we are in our native habitats, best time to learn our behaviors. From a safe distance.

Maybe it's just me but I like to get to know someone and become friends with them first before I decide to take the plunge and actually date them. I guess I'm not in a hurry. You make some very valid points though.

I would guess that most people probably know rather quickly if there is at least some potential for a sexual relationship to develop when they meet someone for the first time. Either the spark is there or it isn't.

Not that everybody jumps in to the water right away. Social and religious constraints can definitely play a role as to when a relationship becomes physically intimate, but it's generally pretty obvious early on which path the future holds.

Is this a person whom I might be interested in becoming sexually involved with, or is this just someone I wouldn't mind hanging out with? That's decided within the first two minutes.

@webbew1 hmm not me, man, I need to know we can have a good conversation, I have to see their hygiene habits lol! There is a checklist before I get sexually involved.

@webbew1 See this is why too often guys get hooked up with the wrong woman. They don't bother to get to know her beyond the surface.
Take a page out of a woman's book, hey our clocks are ticking too and the shelf life historically isn't what a man's is, we don't want to waste time either which is why we want to know you better before taking the plunge out of "friend zone".
How are you under pressure?
When something throws a wrench in plans?
Something as simple as reaction to say, spilling something- is that going to ruin your evening?! If it would , does that mean after the dust settles into relationship-ville that sort of thing is going to ruin your week?

And on & on. It's not enough to simply have a a surface attraction and hope everything falls into place. If this is the typical M.O. of men no wonder so many complain that after marriage the sex stops, because women often lose their zeal for sex when angry, or tired from shouldering mundane things they'd like help with...

When a guy complains about a sexless relationship I always wonder what he did to piss the woman off so badly that she quit being attracted to him.

[I] had a rather pitiful 1st time "date" the other day with someone I consider a years long "friend" . It was so unfortunate, the vibe, that I doubt I'll ever entertain going out with him again....EVEN as a friend.

I can see where that would be frustrating.

He has a point. I don't lash out at a woman when she rejects me online, but I would say 95% of my messages reaching out to someone on Match get no reply or a rejection message. The volume is overwhelming, as he says, and it does feel like an emotional pounding over time. Esp. if some of that message rejection is followed up by being stood up for two meetings and being ghosted a few times.

Yes spread the word. You are right on!! Thanks!

@valerina Thanks! I shall.

@Louie406 I'm also in a relationship that's fast becoming serious.

Simon, why are you talking about foot size? Is this a foot fetish?
.
.
.
Oh, crikey I read "Wellies" not "Willie's". Must put the specs on.?

@FrayedBear lmao well you know what they say about men with big feet .....big wellies !!;!

@SimonMorgan1 ?

@teslacoilsmith Are you saying you don't reject anyone? OR, are you saying you never get abusive/negative feedback after you reject someone? I'm very curious your POV.

@valerina I go through the same thing when I reject some guys sexual advances. I don't know why one minute they are nice, and then get hateful when I say no. Gay guys are sometimes the same as straight guys in this regard.

@Teslacoilsmith intetesting! Thanks for sharing!!

@Litefoot555 do you not realize that spinliesel was saying that her replie to rudeness was to tell them fuck you? So she was not instigating the rudeness just giving it back to him.

@Litefoot555 You bring my next question to the plate: Is a woman obligated to like any man who approaches her? Somebody told me "Yes, she is."

@Beach_slim Even better that they do the reveal before the relationship starts.

I think women are more selective so we don't approach very often. Maybe.

@valerina I don't think that has any thing to do with it. I think it has that way in most cultures for so long it just is. Also women don't want to appear to be easy and a lot of men are intimidated by aggressive women.

It may not be gender specific but it is far more prevalent with men. I may well be someone whose rejection you would consider"rude". IDGAF. I am NOT required to be nice to someone, or to act like I'm not a raging smart ass just because they want to fuck me. I don't understand why men can't seem to get that WOMEN DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING. We do not need to justify our existence by being pretty or nice or good cooks or any of the 5000 other expectations for us. Fuck all that noise.

@Blindbird I doubt that I would end up being on the receiving end of such an outburst but I cannot see how anyone could expect anything more than rudeness returned in kind if that is what you would see fit to give in reply to a compliment.
I don't just randomly compliment nor expect anything of anyone but I could see how this is an issue. If your general response to a compliment is rudeness however, sounds like you earn your shutty reply.
It does not sound like the OP handles herself that way and in her case, receiving animosity from simple rejection is far out of line. Simply handing a person attitude back in kind when all that was given to start was a compliment is perfectly justified however. Attitude breeds contempt and the return of attitude. And quite obviously, justifiably so.

Oh yeah. This was really bad in my teens and twenties. I lived in a more urban area of my hometown and guys rolling up on you on your way to school, hitting on you then becoming verbally abusive or even following you was super common. Ugh.

@Beach_slim I've seen it happen.

Negging is a thing and considered a valid strategy by many men.

Does it really work, though? Does a woman really decide to pursue a man who says these sorts of things to them?

My guess is, "One with so little self respect she's probably not going to be a very interesting girlfriend," but I admit I'll probably never know because I'd rather attract a woman by mentioning things about her that I like and admire.

Lmao!!!

ZOOM, ZOOM... the leader of the pack.

Thank you so much. It's so true and yes not all men but a lot of times these things occur. It sucks and can turn a woman bitter real quick. So again, thank you and you keep yours up as well. ?

That is so freaking common. I had a guy threaten to rape me within an inch of my life when I didn't respond to his message online. I feel like real world behavior has been a lot better but online I almost expect to be abused.

Oh I have been cussed out by a couple girls for not being interested, but it's different for men, I just rolled my eyes and went on my way.