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My girlfreind and I went to dinner with friends. This guy proceeds to tell me he resurected the dead. I asked him if his god did not exist would he want to know. He refused to say he would. So then he proceeds to look me in the eye and expect me to believe (his Jesus bullshit) what he just admitted that he did not care if it was factual or not, because he was just going to believe what he wanted to. The audicity.

It boiled my blood to see someone I cared about and respected be so completely dishonest with themselves. I am a bit ashamed, since he did not care wheter his beliefs were true. I unconciously decided to debunk every false belief he said concering HIS religion.

I did do it relentlessly. I tore every bullshit Christian thing he had to say in front of my girlfriend and his wife. As he has a small Christian ministry for vets I thought that he was actually a siminary trained preacher. He actually thought the books of the Bible were written in chronological order. His ignorance was astounding. So I brazenly finished every scripture he quoted. I then follow them up with scriptures that said the opposite or simply showed how the scriptures were logically impossable etc. I tore the man apart.

Why? Here this normally reasonable person did not even care if what he believed was true or real and insisted that I buy the bullshit he did not even truely believe. It was not him lying to me it was seeing this guy self delude himself.

It would not have been caring for me to let it go. It is dangerous fro people to live their lives based on beliefs that are not concordant with reality. I could hav just been nice and ket it go but that is not what friends do.
Now I don't know if the fellow will talk to me again. It does not matter as perhaps I gave him much to think about. I proved to him his god could not exist and he simply walked out.

Have you had any similar experiences? Was I wrong? What do you think?

DavidLaDeau 8 Sep 6
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38 comments

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0

If this wasn't a spelling test then I'd suggest :

girlfriend resurrected audacity whether unconsciously seminary impossible truly

Yeah, I am very well read yet can not spell for crap. I wrote this at a freinds house where we are house sitting and frankly this is bothering me so I just wrote and did not even edit.

@DavidLaDeau this is not the place where policing of spelling and grammar is carried out! It would be an injustice to people like me, who are loosing my spelling and word memories, by aging...but want to stay living with the living!

When I type my drivel the automatic speel check kix into underline and ovadrive, uno those words with the rud squigle underneaf.

7

“What have you done when you have bested a fool?“
—Charles Portis

I made a fool of myself I am afraid.

@DavidLaDeau it happens to everyone. Frustration with ignorance can be a big motivator sometimes.

@AgeofReason I was completely corect and do not regret it. That being said i am going to write him a letter to explain that I care about him and that It would not be caring of me to allow a friend to live and make lifes decisions based on things that are not rwal and that he does not really believe in.

@DavidLaDeau better to ‘appear’ a fool than to ‘sit with lies!’

5

The more actual truth these believers hear the better in my opinion. I believe you did him a favor by pointing out all the lies of religion and the buybull! I wish more people would challenge their “beliefs”, as they are dangerous!!

You are damn right they are dangerous. Hus is particularly dangerous ans he is a community leader.

@DavidLaDeau Oh my, a community leader? Wow, that is not good at all. Just think of the people that hang on his every word because of his “leadership”!! Scary indeed!😳

5

The majority of evangelicals have NO real knowledge of bibly history. (Not the stories in it, but its making). I had one go away shit when I told them the trinity was decided by a council, actually more than one. He was all pissy and near livid saying shit, no, I was wrong it was in the bibly and then he quoted one of the verses used by the men who decided on the trinity as xtion tenet.
History and science is not their foray.

Its funny you mentioned that. He started throwing Bible passages at me. After the second time I finished the quotes for him and either quoted a scripture that said the opposite or summarily debunked them.
No shit I felt a little guilty for brazenly showing off that I knew more about his religion than he did. I felt a bit guilty and thrilled tearing apart bad ideas. I shpuld notnhave gotrwn joy thrills out of it that was my ego. I had to explain to this guy that the books of the Bible were not in chronoligical order! This is a preacher with a ministry to help vets. At least he does indeed help the vets too bad he feels compelled to fill them full of crap in the process.
He thought Adam wrote Genesis. I had to explain to him the the Books of Moses are attributed to Moses but he could not have written about what thwy did with his body after he died. He did not know that the books of Moses or "the law" was written after the Prophets as they never sighted or even indicated that they were aware of tthe law. Genesis was actually one of the last books written in the Old testiment.
I felt bad when I relized that he had no seminary education but had only recieved the "common knowledge" of Christianity.
In short, he was simplyntoo ignorant to comprehend his ignorance.

@DavidLaDeau these are what we call, ‘self appointed preachers!’ I had many uncles and grandfather who are in this group...bad people! They never changed and studied at any seminary...they just made it up as they went...and their congregation stood behind them no matter what they had done or accused of! ‘This is a man of god,’ was their words and still is!

@Freedompath This is one of the reasons that set me off. He is a respected community leader.

Neither is logic, I'm afraid. A forte' of the biblical bunch, that is.

5

Some people need there bubble to be burst.
Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of reality, the trouble is the other person accepting reality

Garf Level 7 Sep 7, 2020

That is what intellectually pissed me off. I had no emotions to speak of at the time, i was in no way angered. I was intellectually insulted to be honest. I don't believe in this crap really but I expect you to could not be a more dishonest position to have. The proble was this was coming from a person that I care about and respected ( past tense).

5

Sounds like you were brutal there, and now you have one less friend.

Yes I think I was a bit brutal that is what bothers me not the fact that I called him out. While I did not have any negative emotions, I was intellectually insulted and that pissed me off intellectually that he would have such nerve. And even more that I knew he was a good guy that I do respect. It was painfull to see a normally rational person delude themselves into irrational positions for something that did not exist.

Real friends don’t live a lie with each other! Let them go in peace, but selling our souls just to get along, will bring shame to all! Not healthy for old age!

@DavidLaDeau Have you heard of Anthony Magnabosco. Look him up on youtube. May come handy in the future.

@Jolanta Yeah I remeber thinking I can't S.E. this guy as he doesnt not care if his god is real.

4

Since he claimed he resurrected the dead , ypu could have had him ask the resurrected dead about it .

Kinda funny that you said that. I am sure he and his wife who may have been present did believe ittnto be true. I did not bother to ask for the medical verification, video, the newspaper articles etc. It "happened" in a rural peasent village in Russia evidently in 94. That is to say at least they claim it happened. He was a mossionary in Russia.

@DavidLaDeau any story can be true from a distance and over time! If something medically happened and someone recovered that does not prove a god or that we can ‘raise the dead!’ I am skeptical of missionaries, they have a great capacity for illusions, promoted by the denomination that sponsored them! Their reality is not grounded in real life as it is, but in their mystical minds!

4

While I admire your ability to do such a thing I have to ask...
Did anything you said actually make a difference? Or was he just embarrassed in from of his friends?

No he practically stormed out of the establishment. I felt bad to tell you the truth. I just did not regret what I did. It is just going to be a thing where we either do not talk anymore or perhaps we may become very good friends. I always said it takes a danm good friend to tell you the shit you don't want to hear. I do plan on writing him a letter explaining myself and why I did what I did. To include right or wrong how I percieved what he said. If he can not accept that I did what I did because I care then he is simply not worth my time.

4

I call people who "chose to say it's real", Bible Politicians. They don't really believe the bullshit, they just want the power over the followers. Just like any politician.

I think it was fine you debunked his bs. When people start talking about religion, I say, you can say what you want but so can I and I don't give a pass to fairytales. That usually shuts them right up.

Leelu Level 7 Sep 7, 2020

I did not want to shut him up. I wanted tomprovoke thought and demonstrate that there are those that truely believe it to be bullshit for good reason. That is somthing to think about.

@DavidLaDeau I understand what you wanted. I was simply expressing what I prefer.

@Leelu Agreed! Lol

3

I don't think you were wrong at all. The fact is these idiots are among us and are fully willing to subject everyone else to their whims and thinking. To the point of enacting law to support it. More of us need to speak out.

3

Good on ya, David!!
Seriously, well done!

3

Time for new friends!

It is sad. This was (past tense ) someone who I really admired and respected. I can not respect a person who van not be honest with themselves and admit they don't care if their beliefs are true.

@DavidLaDeau I feel your pain... Believe me! While I can more easily handle religion... Friends who are Trump voters and are fervent in their support are dropping like flies around me.

I lost another one last night!

@DavidLaDeau THEY wholeheartedly believe what they believe, because their brains do not work with facts, evidence and changing their minds as new evidence is presented! That ‘got’ it the first time and that’s that...with them! Just check back in...in 15/20 years and their beliefs will be pretty much the same! I once ask a friend why she read the same scripture over and over AND over, and she told me, that she, ‘got something different each time she read it!’ Now, that is on the insanity side to me! Words are words in my mind...‘hot’ can never mean ‘cold’ or visa versa!

@Freedompath They wholeheartedly believe what they believe- yes I was one of those delusional crackheads! ( just a note only delusional crack heads can call each other delusional crack heads or we get all bent out of shape about it)

He had just discovered that he was not being honest with himself, he did not really believe what he thought he believed at the least. For the first time in his life he began to question god! So give him a break really.

Awe bullshit! He was actually thinking ooh my, Satan is testing me! He sent this demon possessed devil worshiper to undermine my ministry! Ooh Thank god! Satan feels threatend by my ministry because Jesus is doing his work there! Only the Devil doesn't know that God allowed Satan to think that so that god could give me the thumbs up and let me know that he approves of my work. Now I have to do this ten more times a day!!!!!!!!!!

Ha ha ha right. Yes I am making it a joke. The reason it is funny is there is always token of truth to a good joke. But here I actually completely serious. Dead FUCKING serious. This is exactly how these people think and how I was programmed to think. This is why I HAD to be an asshole and call him out. It really is delusional thinking. When people like Pence are in power it is very dangerous for all of us.

@DavidLaDeau I get it, I grew up in this...and I believe it almost destroyed me, but I found my way out! All I know from the outside is...that the way they can twist reality is ‘crazy making’ and I mean that in the real sense. If you can keep your sanity and be a loving human being in that delusion...more power to you! I cannot and will not!

@Freedompath Not on the religious side but I lost another friend due to outright blind belief of everything that Trump says. She stated she was going with him because of how he handled the market. When I posted a copy of 30 years of the Dow Jones... I had people jump me for manipulated CNN data. I was aghast! The DJIA is what it is... It is history and easily verified. It is truth! But they are too lazy to look and believe (and actually stated) that the market tanked all during Obama's term. They have no idea. I unfriended her and her cronies... I have better things to do.

@RiverRick sad to report, I have children in this category. There is little interactions, as their insistence on standing with the far-right positions, leaves little room for deep communication. This may change when trump is out of the picture...I hope! Then there are friends... gone!

3

Just another trump death cult follower who among the rest of the death cult followers are always blessed because trump the troll told them so!!!

trump thinks he is above everyone and everything!!!

They believe in what they can not see or touch!!!

Now you can realize why so many will follow the Fascists, their trump and the obstructionist republican fascists told them so, while stealing them blind and enslaving them wholesale!!!

Actually you are corect. He sponsored a big to do in our county called God and Country. I was roped into it by my girlfriend as we are Marine Corps League Members and sat a a booth. The whole thing was just religious people with booths tellign people about jesus. It was all about god and Nationalism. It was gutmwrenching to see. Perhaps that was a bit of what set me off before the conversation. At least there was many organiztions there that supposrt vets.

@DavidLaDeau
As a disabled veteran of SE Asia and Central America, god(s) had nothing to do with the killings and murders!
People kill and murder, god is just an excuse for them to justify the murdering and killings of those they do not agree with!

@DavidLaDeau ...makes sense...when sensible people get roped into the middle of this kind of program, it brings out the ire...’this is not truth, this is brainwashing!’ And we KNOW it!

@of-the-mountain Very sad, Very true.

I love your poster of Jesus holding T-rump-a-saurus down underwater for a "real" baptism!

@Khentyimentu
It is not mind!

It is open source, you can copy and use it anywhere if you want!!!

3

Seems like most of these types expect their audience to roll over and give 'em a High 5 or send 'em more money (did you buy dinner?)

twill Level 7 Sep 7, 2020

No actually he did but he ran out before I could thank him!

3

Going by your story the way you described it I say well done some people need to be put in that place especially spouting b*** as truth. 😉 In addition I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall except that one in France where the dude blew his house up. 🎇🤯😱

It would be something to bragg about as far as sticking it to someone, but sticking it to someone is not always productive nor something to necessarily be proud of.

@DavidLaDeau no you are correct, but maybe that was time and the place.

3

If you felt you did the right thing, then it was the right decision.

I kinda wanted to shock him as I realized that no one had ever challenged his beliefs that directly. I want to show him that I was completely fearless of his idle religious threats. It must be understood that he did not concieve of his words being threats.

@DavidLaDeau it sounds like you made a decision to stand in your ‘truth!’ It is hard to keep the ego from hitching a ride, and making the ‘truth’ become an attack, instead of a difference of views and knowledge! But, it appears that you gave it your best shot! Everyone can hone their skills! You too!

@Freedompath I normally do not "front off" people like that so I will never need or develop such skills, but did I mention he claimed tot raise the dead?

@DavidLaDeau It's important that you noticed that. BTW I like your other threads about:

  • Christian atheists
  • what's wrong with apologetics
  • manifest destiny (I've seen several forms of that)
  • interpretations of experience (closely connected with above)
3

maybe you and your girlfriend should do take-out next time. 🙂

Well, sounds like one of those situations when an ignorant religy just has to be brought down to size. I know the deal. If folks like us don't do, then who will? Many times we just let it go; it's just not worth it. But on occasion someone like that just needs to be brought face to face with their own ignorance and gullibility. Never expect anyone like that to admit they don't know what they're talking about, but some of it sinks in, maybe, and can bring about a change in thinking, or spur them to do a little reading, maybe, perhaps.

Was this an older guy, or younger? I ask because from my experience people of a certain age who've lived always with a religion, will never let go, even if they are full of doubts. It is like renouncing a large part of their lives. It's like the movie The Matrix when Morpheous tells Neo that they don't wake up many to the falsehood of the Matrix around them because for many the mind can never let of the illusion, even in the face of overwhelming definitive evidence. Religion is like that too.

I am 50 and I believe him to be about 60. Yes, I kinda spontaniously decided to give him the shock treatment, particularly when it appeared that no one had ever challenged his beliefs. I do understand what you are sayong. To tell you the truth it was very difficult to accept that I had easted mostmof my life believing things that were not true and makeing major life decisions that required me to move across the country for something that was not real. I was embarrised.

@DavidLaDeau my guess is, at this age, this person’s beliefs are written on every cell in his body! Maybe you made a crack in his armor, but don’t count on it! To be friends now...you will need to accept this person just as he is and live in your own truth! The rub will come when you cannot digest the harm that you feel this person brings to others by promoting this ‘dreamy’ way of reality! At least this has been my problem! If I am not ‘part of the solution, then I am part of the problem!’ This is my core values! But, I can face my loss, and let others go in peace...just without me!

3

I tore into my brother's preacher, I wiped my ass on him more or less, and then when he had had enough, he said "Your just a Nimrod!" and walked away . . . . I probably turned him but he would not admit it, how could a preacher admit such a thing . . . . I have no regrets about tearing into people who pretend they know something that they really don't. More of us should, these kind of people are dangerous, they are the kind that will believe anything some preacher tells them or anything the main stream media tells them, and that is just the kind of sheep that flock together and do some of the worst things on or to the planet.

Wow what a Nimrod! You see Nimrod was a very highly respected hunter and warrior in the Bible and Islamic traditions and is said to have founded Babylon.
It was in looney tunes where Buggs Bunny called Elmer Fudd "Poor little Nimrod" making a joke about him not being a very good hunter. People did not understand the reference so Nimrod became understood as idiot or fool.

So there is yet much more tomlaugh about now isn't there? He did not know whatmhe was saying and how he was taking his Bible Nimrod out of context but rather went with the common usage.

2

Sorry you lost a friend

I am sorry when? If he does not wish tomspeak again then there was no friend to loose.

2

I myself pretty much dismiss the bible totally. I tell them if a man cam eup to me today telling me he heard the voice of god, but nobody else coudl hear it, just him, I'd assume ht was mentally ill. I see no reason not to aply the saem resoning to biblical charaters, but because ithappened thousands of yers ago and somebody wrote it down. They were still mentally ill.

In ancient times the mentally ill were said to have been touched by god or the gods. The most functioal of hte mentally ill became the prophets of old.

That is indeed part of it but there were Millions of otherwise perfectly rational people involved like my friend. Religion does in fact poison everything.

2

While I would like to have been as knowledgeable about scripture as you are as related in your post, I usually cannot condone cruelty. However, in this case, where the man was being a hypocrite in apparently more than one way, zapping him into eternity was, in my opinion, understandable and even perhaps necessary. It is the same thing I would want to do to someone who is gay but who puts gay people down in public or endangers gay individuals by outing them.

I shocked myself. I have never done such a thing. It was out of character for me. I am usually very approachable. In fact I am known for being a mellow very tolerent fellow in the atheist YouTube community. This time I justmlet loose on the poor deaerving fellow. I for the first time decided to go with the shock technique. I wanted to shock him with my disbelief and good reason for not believing. Guess I am not a yes man. Its too bad to as I would probably have a great carreer! Spent too much time telling the truth to bosses when they asked.

2

It makes them feel better. I wish I could believe I had an awesome sky daddy who guided my every move and protected me. Religious people are like anti-vaxxers and never-Bidens. They are hopeless.
And how did you get roped into dinner with this guy?!

We are members of the Local Marine Corps League. Though we have become friends as we are often working together doing Community service projects. We are in the 5% of the people who does most of the work in organizations like this, Not bitching it is just the reason we have become close.

2

Many believers are that way. They just keep on making it up. I knew a spiritualist one time who moved small objects with his breath and his crowd of people believed it.

Iv'e moved small crowds with my breath too! Toothpaste did help.

2

Way to go, David! 😀

2

It is one thing to be atheist or agnostic but personally, I do not consider myself anti-religious. It sounds as if you are. The way I feel, if they are not trying to push religion down my throat then I don't try to change their minds. What you did to that guy was just as bad as the people who come around thumping the bible at you. You should apologize for trying to force your beliefs on him and embarrassing yourself in front of him and the other people who were there. Try to accept that we don't all think alike and that sometimes that is okay. learn to live and let live.

I do not see it that way but I do appreciate your thoughts. He sat down at a casual dinner and told me he raised the dead for Christ sake. I tolerated that but when I asked him if his god was not real would he want to know. I had to ask him at least 4 times and he refued to say yes. Once he made it clear that he did not caremif it was real and continued it was then I let out the Kracken.

@DavidLaDeau There is an old expression that in polite company one should not discuss religion, sex or politics. I guess there must have been a good reason for that expression to develop. I think that is would have been better just to have pointed that out to him and then maybe talk about family, food, the weather, or whatever it was that brought you together in the first place. After dinner maybe you could have quietly decided that you didn't really want to have dinner with that guy again, but you at least would not have started WWIII in a restaurant with innocent victims in the cross fire.

@MyTVC15 Nope once he told me he resurected the dead and then made it clear he did not care if it was real it was all me . I was the asshole. I told my girlfriend this evening I don't regret what I said or did. But I was an asshole and was on his scent like a hound. Kinda assholeish.

@DavidLaDeau Well, I feel sorry for your girlfriend.

@MyTVC15 She actually was not mad. I think Imambeing harder on myself than anyone else involved. But really what I did debunking his crap does not top "I resurected a dead guy." One must keep things in perspective.

2

The binary decision between accepting faith-based dogma or on the other hand accepting observable and verifiable evidence: the decision is made viscerally, and usually can be corrected only by the decision-maker. Verbal debate is consistently ineffective.

I do not believe it is possable to choose to belive something whithout any facts to back it up. For instance try to believe that Scooby Doo is a god. How did that work for you?
That being said I agree debate rarely changes minds. It started out as a discussion but did become a bit passionate. I do have a plan to reconsile the relationship while remaining firm in my position. That is siply to write him a personal letter explaining my past and how I percieved the situation right or wrong. If he can't deal with that then I did not loose a friend.

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