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Animal Ethics

In reference to: Life and Death decision

I promissed I was going somewhere with this. Here it is:
Most of us would accept a good life for the price of being eaten at the end of our life. Should we do the same for the animals we eat? Is it etical to eat animals if we provide them with a good life? By providing the animals we eat with a good life, would it be better than no life at all?

My previous post was: "If alliens came to earth and offered everyone who wants to accept, a life span of 200 years + plenty of money + a good life + healthy body and brain of a 30 year old + your friends and family could join you.

But the aliens want one thing. After 200 years of a great life, you die a peaceful and painless death. They ship your body back to their home planet where you are eaten.

This is not a deal-with-the devil with hidden consequences or anything like that. It is just what it says."

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SleepingOnABoat 7 Apr 14
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21 comments

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5

I like both your scenarios. I am going to die regardless, why not have a good life and be recycled.

5

I have opted out of all consumption and all products that harms animals, I’m a strict vegan, my food is delicious and I’m healthier for it... clearly I don’t need to kill animals to survive. That said, I have my reasons and I’m not an activist on that front but if someone changes due to my example cudos to them☯️

[goodnature.nathab.com]

4

Must remember our bodies are full of critters that will eat us when we are gone; no body much question their ethics.

4

Well..I enjoy all kinds of animals.especially on my plate....mmmm

4

Wrong wrong wrong. Would rather be strict vegetarian.

Love animals - would never eat an animal I raised.

@sassygirl3869
not trying to pick a fight, just curious.
What about an animal you didn't raise?
Most people have never met or seen, let alone raised any of the cows, chickens or pigs that have been on their plates.
Agreed, most people don't want to eat their cat.

My sister in-law had cow,pig, chickens, I would not eat at her house. If it has a name or I can pat it no way.

@sassygirl3869 Ok. Thanks for the reply. I think I get it. So no animal ever. Regardless of if you have seen it personally or not. Gottcha. And fair enough.
I think it's a sad fact that a lot of inner-city kids don't even really understand that bacon comes from a pig or hamburger from a cow. I'm not sure they understand that meat comes from animals.
It might change their appetites if they did know.

But you'd eat their products: milk, cheese, and eggs? That still makes hoards of livestock. Probably easier to keep your own, however, and shrink the herds.

@sassygirl3869 During her vegetarian phase my daughter used to say "Nothing with a face".

3

I only eat fish, for the Omega-3 oil, but for my health instead of a moral stance.
I don't object to animals being raised kindly, bred specifically for eating, and killed humanely.

3

I think the more you relate to animals, the harder it is to eat them. There are a lot of good reasons not to... but I still do it. I have a high regard for those who exclude it from their diets. Some, simply never crave it. For me it was an act of will for the duration that I adhered to it. I intend to take another run at Vegetarianism in the future.

3

I've talked about this before. Somehow, people who don't eat animals or meat think they have the moral high ground. Why? Because they are alive. Because they have feelings. Because you can SEE that. So it's not altruistic in the least really. It's about how it makes YOU feel. People who don't eat animals or meat, eat plants and vegetables. Those are also living beings, but they don't give humans the butterflies and the feels, so they are fair game and not thought to be alive or have "feelings". Anything that gives you proper nourishment is either alive or was alive. The reason why so many people are sick and have deteriorating health faster now is because we eat all this processed (dead) crap.

Plants are not living beings and have no nervous system or brain... never have I seen a a vegetable cry, squeal and struggle to get away. I’m sorry but that’s just ridiculous. If I made it through today with a full belly and nothing died where is the justification to kill an animal tomorrow? You can not put plants in the same category as animals... sounds like you know the animals you eat didn’t want to die so you want to put plants in the same catagorry, perhaps to feel better about slaughtering animals to eat?... note: we don’t slauter carrots. I became vegan to help with a debilitating migran problem and I’m much better. After I went vegan I learned about the impact on the enviorment the meat industry has. One of the best ways to combat climate change is to eat a plant based diet. I don’t expect everyone will but I do expect the planet and it’s inhabitants to suffer the consequences of that choice.

@ArdentAtheist You proved my point exactly. Research more. I made no point about the environment either. I know what impact meat eating has on the environment in terms of mass production. I also didn't talk about why YOU became a vegan.

@Piece2YourPuzzle My mistake, Didn’t realize I was only allowed to say the things you approved of... I added what seemed appropriate for the post... I also think you’re doing a good job of making my point. And Guinness is vegan I realize you didn’t mention beer but it’s awesome.

@ArdentAtheist Oh ok. You proved me wrong I guess.

i was wondering if someone was gonna say it. i remember one of the first things i was surprised to learn in school, during science, was that plants and even fungi are living things. it was the first time i had been introduced to the idea that something doesnt have to be made the same as us to be alive. that eventually got me interested in the idea of intelligence outside of humans, sort of similar in that i found just because something isnt built like us doesnt mean its not smart.

3

Why the hell would I want the brain of a 30 year old, though? That doesn't sound like an upgrade, lol.

3

What happens to me after I die and no longer exists has no meaning to me at all, will have no affect on me at all, so do with me as you see fit and please.

Soylent green.

2

Unfortunately this is idealism. Not reality.

I am vegetarian and for this topic, I would say that omnivores who hunt their own food would be the most moral of all the omnivoires as they have a direct conscious connection to the animal they are eating rather than grocery store meat they have no conscious connection to. Also the animal would have lived a free life in nature. The problem is that we can't support our population that way so animal farming is a reality that we can't change.

2

I have no problem dropping meat as a food source as long as I can get all the nutrients from else where. At the same time though eating meat has been something very natural. Im not 100% sure but I think eating meat has been linked to human evolution, it caused brain growth. All humans used to be nomadic, traveling along side a herd of animals and killing as needed to survive.

Tejas Level 8 Apr 15, 2018
2

I'm not a vegetarian, but can certainly enjoy a meal with no meat.
But I'm not sure this is a clear cut case of what is right and what is wrong, perhaps it's in the wording of the poll??
Who is going to determine if the animals have had a truely good life?
If there is a pig who suffers from depression, but lives a full life vs a pig that is supper happy but only lives a year? Is one ok to eat, but not the other? Both? Neither?
Also, not sure we have the 'right' to do anything.
Does a tiger have the 'right' to kill its prey?
Does a rabbit have the 'right' to eat a carrot?
Do I have the 'right' to own a pet?
I didn't see your original question (might go look for it...) but although I don't like the idea of someone eating me, I'll be dead and it won't really matter.
That probably didn't answer your question... or maybe it did?

There would be no sorry hoards of livestock had we not bred them from wild. Natural life is preferable. Get people to stop breeding livestock until they're gone? Ha. too much money involved there.

@GoldenMean
The all might dollar is usually at the hear of things.
I agree that we, as a society, could do will less meat, and certainly a lot less processed foods.
What's your thoughts on other domesticated animals?? Horses? Dogs? Hamsters?

1

I’ve finally become a vegetarian because I can’t justify eating meat philosophically. If you think about it, the only reason we raise animals for food/kill/eat meat/wear animals/make medicine from animals is because we like it, not because we have to eat meat to survive. There are plenty of alternatives. Animals do think, have emotions, play, care for their young, converse with each other and so on. They are living beings that have a right to exist separate and apart from our desires.

Good on you for backing up your ideals with action. The world could use more of that.
Follow up question...
How do you feel about zoos or keeping animals as pets... or exotic pets?

++ EDIT ++

...hang on a second... Not trying to start anything... but...
Is your profile picture you on a horse... with a leather saddle?
still - not trying to fight, but curious.
Where do you draw the line?

(I love animals and don't want to see any mistreated, abused, in pain... or the like. I don't have any pets - but that's more because of allergies and other circumstances. I eat meat and own leather shoes...)

Yes, scurry, that is a leather saddle, although I also have a synthetic saddle. I also have leather boots, bridles, and other leather products which I purchased before I became a vegetarian several years ago. I do make it a point to avoid these kinds of purchases now. Also I still eat poultry and fish, and dairy by-products like butter and cheese so I’m not a 100% true vegan. I am still a work in progress. And yes, I have furry friends—a siamese mix cat I rescued from a shelter, a golden retriever that my sister gave me after I had to put my rescue dog down with bone cancer, a mustang horse that is more a pasture pet than anything else as he seldom is ridden, and a donkey a friend gave me who couldn’t keep him any longer that is a great source of joy and laughter. My furry buddies are my family and own me. I prefer their company to most people. They all seem happy and are dearly loved and very spoiled. I couldn’t imagine my life without animals around me. It would be a bleak existence indeed! As to where to draw the line, it is a not a simple thing. I guess I would have to say that I go with my gut instinct to do no harm and to strive to make choices that are just, compassionate and right according to my own moral compass.

@Thinks22much I love these pictures!! Your Golden looks like a character!! ♥
Thank you so much for your reply. I love animals too and think they can bring a lot to someone's life, and that we can serve then we'll too. I know many folks who are owned by their cats or dogs.
It's difficult to draw the line, but I think letting your gut make the call is a good start.
You've given me food for thought.
Thank you again. ?

1

Nice idea maybe, but we humans have a long history of taking shortcuts that harm others, being indifferent the feelings and pain of animals (and other humans), breaking their sworn contracts, being greedy and on and on. I eat no mammals and very little other flesh in part because of the horrible conditions they're subjected to.

1

There's no need to treat the animals we eat as if they don't feel. They may not be as intelligent as us (well some of us) but there no reason to cut off their beaks, break their fingers, keep them in the dark, and harm them while they are alive.

If we can't show compassion for the lowest of us, what makes us Human?

1

Nature is cruel. Life is cruel. Only humans can contemplate right and wrong.

i saw a study a while back that suggests that at least some animals other than humans do contemplate things like right and wrong. im not sure how far they got, i know one study doesnt prove much, but it was interesting.

1

Just because something is legal and part of tradition and culture....doesn't make it moral and ethical.

1

It's ok to murder someone as long as they had a good life first....
It's ok to rape a child as long as they were happy and I gave them lots of toys first...
It's ok to beat my spouse as long as I gave them a house and they were happy first...
It's ok to have slaves as long as they are housed, clothed, fed....
It's ok to eat my dog/cat/gerbil as long as I gave them a good life first....
right?
RIGHT???
No. Of course not.
It's not ok --- it's NEVER ok -- to enslave, imprison, torture, murder, and eat other Earthlings.
Humans are supposed to be advanced and civilized. There is NOTHING advanced or civilized or HUMANE about factory farms and slaughterhouses.
The mere fact that something like a "slaughterhouse" even exists in this century should tell you how ignorant and arrogant the human species is.

“As long as there are slaughter houses there will always be battlefields.”
― Leo Tolstoy, What I Believe

World peace begins on your plate with your food choices....

Factory farms are cruel, terrible, wrong, and are a huge contributor to pollution, and destruction of the environment. I am sure everyone knows that, but do they eat meat from grocery stores that comes from factory farms anyway? I don't. I live on a farm. We have chickens, ducks, geese and we eat their eggs and eat them. They are free range, fed the best food, are out scratching, looking for bugs, having sex, sitting on eggs and hatching them out, and raising babies. We have pigs. They are two different heritage breeds. We only have a few, and they are raised together, free range in the pasture and part of the yard, fed the best food, root around and eat what they want in the ground, they are turned loose in the big garden after we have harvested and they have a good time rooting, eating, they turn their water over to make mud baths in the hot weather, they have sex, babies, and we hang out with them, and scratch them, love on them, and give them names. When we slaughter a non human animal, that lives with us, we take them away from the others, give then a big bowl of their favorite food and shot them in the brain while they are happily eating. They fall and don't move. When we know they are dead, we then start to butcher. We mourn for every animal that we kill, we honor them, and thank them. We never take them for granted. We eat them. We have a friend who has beef that is raised the same way, and we eat her beef. I never buy meat at a store. I know the suffering that the animal went through, and I won't be part of it. I also believe that if I am out in the woods and a bear or wolf or mountain lion kills me and eats me, it is fair and right.

@Wisewoman3 you hit the nail on the head. the one issue i have with living this way is the cost, im not saying once its all set up its more expensive, but i live on a very low budget. the idea of being able to find a place where i could do this,and afford somehow to get started tho is still my dream

1

All life deserves respect

0

I’ve always thought this. If we don’t raise animals for consumption, then they experience no life at all.

There would be no domestic food animals if we had not created/bred them. There would be just the wild ones. And there would probably be fewer deformed dogs bred for certain jobs.

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