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People can change. At age 15, I was a seminarian, and would gladly have sacrificed my life for my "Lord and Savior Jesus Christ".

I am now a confirmed atheist.

IMHO Shamima Begum should be given a fair chance to demonstrate her asserted loyalty to the U.K., and her rejection of the Islam ideology.


PBuck0145 7 Oct 1

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NO, No, and NO again, she made her choice, she knew what she was doing whether it was merely an act of rebellion against her family/parents or whatever, she still knew and chose but NOW because Muslim Hubby doesn't fit into the scene anymore and Islamic Law says that she has no rights because of GENDER, she wants to do a u-turn and back-flip, odds on ALL she is after is the chance to claim Benefits from U.K. Social Security, etc.

Sometimes evil manifests itself as righteous indignation.

@PBuck0145 Are you, perhaps, implying that I am showing such indignation?

@Triphid Take a step back. Read your comment as an uninterested observer. What would be your assessment?

@PBuck0145 Sir, my response/ comment is BASED on my experiences and decades of practicing as a Psychologist dealing with Children and Young Adults in Crisis.
Many of these cases with the Young Adults are due to them "leaping" in to a relationship that turns arse up eventually and the majority of reasons given was " I did it to spite/get away from my parents."
Sometimes they ALSO do it simply to spite the society they live in, the culture they have raised in, etc, etc, BUT always, when it goes sour the first thing they set about ensuring is that THEY can claim any due benefits from the Department of Social Security.

@Triphid Some good points.
Not sufficient to justify your merciless, obstinate vindictiveness.
As a self-proclaimed professional, you can do better.

@PBuck0145 My good Sir, I am neither stubborn, merciless, obstinate nor vindictive, I, Sir, am being 100% purely PRACTICAL minded.
In simple terms WHY would one take risk of inviting a possibly rabid dog into ones own home and allowing to roam freely around the property?
Or, would YOU happily place King Cobra in your pants pocket and leave your hand in that self-same pocket trusting that it wiil NOT bite you?


I still do some very silly things at my age, but hope to improve.


I agree, for better or worse, people can and do change. I too did some very foolish things when I was a 15-year-old. As an adult I looked back at my teenage years and asked myself, “who was that person?”


She had her day in UKs Supreme Court and lost her reinstatenent and UK citizenship revoked permanently



She's expressed remorse and regret and even self-loathing for her decisions.
She's renounced ISIS soundly and has offered to help authorities with information.
She should be let back in... though under close close watch if you take my meaning.


They should not let her back in. She made a choice, she has to live with its consequences. Let her be an example so that other people think more carefully about choosing to adopt radical religious beliefs.

At the age of 15?

A proclamation!

@p-nullifidian Aged 15 or what ever other age, SHE made the choice, she knew what she was doing, there is NO excuse imo.

@Triphid So, she is beyond rehabilitation?

@p-nullifidian Since Radical Islamic Sects are widely know for "inserting" sleeper terrorists into other societies so WHAT is there to stop her from being one of those?


Anne Marie Waters makes some very strong points that seem very valid. Let us assume that Begum made a choice that did not work out for her, or that her choice now seems foolish. It does not mean she gets a "re-do" and all should be forgotten.

Yes, people can change. While still in high school I started studying for the ministry and believed in all sorts of woo. Radio and TV waves proved a lot of it because they were there and yet you could not see them. Through Jesus you would never die. I found that things were not the way I had assumed them to be. Maybe Shamima Begum is now discovering this same thing. True or not, how could she demonstrate a loyalty to the U. K.?


Yikes that's complicated ,if she's truly a atheist give her a chance but if it's a charade get proof and take appropriate action


Isn't anyone truely independent thinkers for themselves first anymore,? Getting tired of Governments nationalism, pharmaceutical fit all medicine and the buck stops at the bank.
Guess I just feel sorry for most who can't.


A very awkward situation. On the one hand she has and possibly still is an enemy of the British state and western culture. Who effectively vowed our destruction and elimination. But then she was just 15.
Here we must draw comparisons with the Hitler Youth who were indoctrinated into fighting to the death for Hitler and the NAZI party.
Following the collapse of Germany the Allies had thousands of these young people to re-educate and reform into new German citizens. Some would always remain loyal to Hitler unto death, but most grew into Germans who got in with their lives post war and even into reunification.
Neo-NAZI groups are still rife around the world, but insignificant compared to violent extreme Islam which could still light the fire of supporting them in her.
Psychologically observing her, I think she just wants to come home and say sorry. She has been through a lot and lost all her babies. Now she is missing McDonalds's and M&S on the high street, Strictly Come Dancing on the telly and texting mates about cute boys.
My solution, allow her back to the UK and treat her as an asylum seeker who could gain British citizenship. Daily Mail readers and Brexshiteers would not allow that though. Her name is currently too big.


all this new to me. what did she allegedly do?

Not a story that was on my radar either.

As a girl she left the UK at 15 with a couple of other girls to join ISIS where they became battle brides for the fighters. They were killed, she survived but had lost about three babies. Now as a refugee from war and stripped of her nationality (she was British with a hint of Pakistani) she resides in a camp and wishes to come home.

@Sofabeast thanks


I believe the U.K. government has acted illegally in stripping her of her British passport and effectively leaving her Stateless. She was born and educated here in the U.K…and apparently radicalised here when she was still a minor, so it’s our responsibility to allow her back into the U.K. where she should have the right to be put on trial and have the chance to state her case and defend herself. That is a human right which she’s being denied.

She took up arms to fight against her country, her laws, her people, her government. As to a day in court, no doubt Acts of High Treason would be paramount sentenced to ife imprisonment and asylum? How does she even qualify as she left the UK for that exact life.

As to reinstatement or qualification for naturalization as a British citizen, she does not fit the good character clause to regain it naturalize.

Some decisions cannot be forgiven or undone.

@Shane4Agnostic She was a child under, and it could be interpreted that she’s was a victim of online grooming by the Islamic State. Natural justice, and British justice, at the very least demands that she is allowed to be charged and tried in a British court. If found guilty she would then serve a prison sentence, forgiveness has nothing to do with the issue, nobody is suggesting that, but a period of reflection in a prison cell and some re-education would be a more productive outcome than leaving her stateless and in limbo, both for Shamina and the British public…of whom I am a member. I’m not aware that she herself took up arms…she was in fact a jihadi bride…a breeding machine for the Caliphate, because they were trying to built a future generation of Islamic warriors, perhaps it’s a good thing that her children didn’t survive, sad for her though that fact undoubtedly is!


Agreed, I don't really see how you can take someones nationality away, anyway, especially without a day in court. Surely if she has done something wrong, she should be encouraged to come back and face trial, everyone is entitled to a day in court if there are charges to answer. While if there are only vague doubts about her, she can surely be watched more easily at home, as many are, and arrested if solid evidence of crimes comes to light.

Regardless of what happens here she does need her day in court.

Perhaps the point of asking for forgiveness is to forego a criminal trial and stay out in prison.

@Shane4Agnostic If that is her idea then she is wrong. government is about fairness not forgiveness.


I agree. She should have her British citizenship reinstated and she should be allowed back in to the country

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