Socialism in its purist form has never been tried in a developed country. It would be interesting to see if it would work if it was allowed to happen without interference.

@CeliaVL It would be disastrous. China was the worlds largest third world country before it got Hong Kong back and saw money gives you the power and incentive to get things done. One of my fathers best friends went to the USSR in the 70's. One of the things that really stuck out to him was the collective farms. The crops the farmers grew for themselves and their family looked great. The crops they grew for the state did not look so good. Where was the incentive? No matter how great the crop was or how poorly the crop did, his reward was the same. Human beings need incentive. The German scientists we got after WWll were better than the German scientists the Russians got, because we offer incentives and the freedom to do their work, so we attracted the better rocket scientists. Capitalist/Socialist countries are working in Europe and we are heading there. No perfect form of government exists for everybody. That is not possible.

Mr Sticks48, sir, I do understand, what you mean, but those are social programs, not socialistic. Socialistic programs always come down to what - in my vocabulary at least - is called large scale robbery and murder. And as Winston Churchill once said: “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” —House of Commons, 22 October 1945.

@celiavl Ma’am, maybe you should add the word ‘luckily’ in front of your statement.

@Sputnik I don't know what you are talking about anymore. Those are socialist programs. Show me a country where pure socialism has worked.

@Sticks48 sir I was answering your first remark, not the second ( I tried to replace my comment, but that did not function). It somehow positioned itself in the wrong spot. I overall agree with you, sir. On the remarks of your visiting (?) friends, much of such experiences were based on ‘faked’ information and/or situations, also called Potemskinisms (after Prince Potemski, who had decoy villages build for the visiting Tsarina Catharina).

Nope, if you would have said social democratic, I would have agreed. But one hundred years after the start of the Russian revolution, seventy five years after Auschwitz and fifty years after a so called Cultural revolution, I don’t.

@ddb-vegan, thanks for your reaction. Sir, my father was a dutch liaison officer with the American Army at the end of WWII. As far as I understand, he chased dutch war criminals. He was almost assassinated in 1947 and the dutch authorities closed his files for 75(!) years. From what I got of discussions between my parents, he was after people, who earned big money during the war. He might have been been involved with the unraveling of the so called ‘Small Shoa’. From what he himself let loose of it and from what I encountered during my own life, he was with his work partly after left socialist folks. Remember the fact - this year for eighty years (23. August) - Stalin in fact gave Hitler free way to run over half of Poland in 1939 (the other half, he took care of himself two weeks later) and so is greatly guilty for the start of WWII, I would say. Why I am telling you this? Sir, I would think it improper behavior for me to denounce the country who helped my father to survive ('I would have been dead in a dutch hospital’, he once told me). As for your words on the destruction of the planet and humans in general, I kind of agree, though I think the only way to turn the wagon, is to realize, that we, that is every individual, is co-responsible for the status quo and thus responsible for a reasonable solution. As for Europe, I would say, it is not a socialistic entity, but partly a social-democracy. My advise for every social-democrat would be to proclaim, that there is no sympathy for socialism whatsoever, be it religious or political. That is why I urge to never ever sing ‘The Internationale’ again, the once national anthem of the Soviet Union, under which tones uncountable millions were murdered. May I suggest to rename the first of May as ‘Slaughterday’? On that one day of the year people could remember the killing of people for any form of socialism, so for the crusades, 9/11, German, soviet or chinese socialism, you name it.

Sir, as far as I know, the expression ‘daft’ is from the 1960s. That would fit with the German saying ‘die Ewig-von-Gestern’ (meaning those always from yesterdays)

@Sputnik if you don't like my parlance then I will change my comment to "myopic".

@JeffMesser, that still does not sound as a strong argument to me, sir, more as a trolling remark...

@Sputnik I don't remember claiming it was a strong argument. It was my opinion of that tripe you wrote above.

Robecology (interesting name), Switzerland is NOT the Walhalla (look for problems with the US in the financial world) and neither is America. Lots of things can be optimalized. I was just referring to the millions of victims of ANY kind of socialism, whatever the (mostly silly) premisses. There is not so much difference, altho often cited, between socialism of left and right, neither social-economic, nor financial-economic.

@Sputnik You make generalizations but no references.

I'm agnostic - remember?

I need evidence to support a POV.

So far you're ignoring most of the posts on this page that suggest you're wrong.

Do some research...we don't 'believe" what you're saying...and watch this, please?

Sir, I thought I covered most of the reactions here, but as for your remarks: I agree, that there is a lot to change for the better stateside. You have your chance for that change every four years. That is not just a luxury. I find it interesting to see, how much (little?) change is possible thru the years. I mean apart from the actual POTUS (any Trumpanians here?), who is - I am convinced - just a pal of ex-KGB officer Vladimir P.

@Sputnik I hope you watched the video.

My general protest to your post was that you did say;

" socialism, whatever political or religious identity, often being nothing else as a severe form of organized crime"

I hope, after you've watched it, that I persuaded you to think differently.

We're at an interesting point here in USA....our health care system is failing. They're nickel and dime-ing us to death. Close to a million families go "bankrupt" which then puts their bills on the backs of us taxpayers...talk about a socialist system that's f'd up....there's one...bankruptcy.

But having said that; we desperately need what you enjoy; universal health care.

I hope you see that overall...our push to socialism isn't pushing toward "organized crime".

(and again; you don't share links. Links are evidence; we're agnostic- remember? we need evidence.

Please; read this link before you comment.

[berniesanders.com]

Ma’am, am I supposed to list the literature I read on the subject now? And regarding your reaction, I would not be surprised that I am better equipped there with relevant knowledge than you are. Maybe you should read ‘The Iron Curtain’ by Patrick Wright. Your kind of folks is of all times...

@Sputnik I lived for a year in the Soviet Union and spent six months in Russia after 'glasnost'. When were you there?

@CeliaVL 1977/78, Breznjev times, ma’am. I was made a ‘Sputnik’ by them commic folks and left them with a big - A4 sized - autogram of mine (to have them return my taken away passport). But that is just for the record.

Sir, a very strong argument you’ve got there...