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I’ve just had my very first conversation with a stranger who is an atheist... to say the least it was entertaining at most. It felt like I was having a discussion with a believer. I give myself the label agnostic, before I learned the word I had a difficult time identifying as an atheist I didn’t want to be an atheist...”I just don’t believe there is a god”. The end. Last nights discussions were strange and at Times truly unsatisfying I felt defensive and toyed with. Not to say that they got away with the behaviors I forsure called out the obvious... it all just left a awkward Taste. Is this what it’s like

mychelle 5 Sep 7
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31 comments

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1

I think everyone you come across will be different, whatever flag they fly.

Communication isn't dependant on everyone thinking the same. If you and this person weren't communicating effectively despite the differences, maybe the next experience will be better. Or worse.

2

There have been some fakes out there. Hang with it there are a lot of intelligent people on here.

1

It can happen. Particularly when the real world is kind of hitting us harder than usual.

But for the most part we really do rub along pretty darn well - and we like each other - which is even better.

Pretty sure you came here not believing what you already not believe - and I'm good with that.

1

Maybe the person had asperger. They ramble like a teenager on their first date trying to impress. I don't know why I am rationalizing. I like to think people are generally good. I sound like "Ann Frank". We know how that worked out for her. I do know you just keep trying and with any luck it will happen for us all. Good luck

1

Depending on the level of indoctrination there can be several stages on the way to atheism. Some people get stuck in one stage and are unable to move on. First one questions one's own beliefs (as imposed by others). Then one questions the beliefs of others. Then resentment and anger at being indoctrinated since childhood before one could make a cognitive decision. There can be a desire to disprove 'god' and this is when aggresive evangelical atheism can occur, atheism becomes the 'religion' and converts are sought. (This is the stage many get stuck in and i believe that is the type of person you encountered.) Eventually the question of 'god' becomes an irrelevance to one's life. That's when you are a true atheist. Obviously this is a very simplistic explanation. Everyone's personal journey is different and many factors come into play. ?

7

I am not sure what the context is here. Were you on a date?

The difference between atheist and agnostic for most people is just a bit of semantics. Hardly anything to get fired up over. Most agnostics don't care enough about the existence of a god to alter lifestyle or mindset, and most atheists will not claim a 0% chance of the existence of god. Even this website has a 99.9% choice as to your opinion on the chance of god existing.

You can't prove a negative. There is a greater than 0 chance that santa, bigfoot, unicorns, fairies and gods exist. The universe is a big place and we can't search it. I am confident the odds are crazy low for all these entities.

I use the term atheist for myself for 3 reasons:

  1. Agnostic makes most people think you are 50/50. I am not. I am very close to zero % on god's existence.
  2. Definition of atheist implies a lack of belief. Not having an invisible friend is my natural state. Belief takes effort, it is an activity I do not participate in.
  3. Part of the social issue that freethinkers have is that we think freely. We are not a united group, it is like herding cats. It is our strength and our weakness. We go by many names, have a diverse philosophy and choose to express our opinions openly and freely. I say I am an atheist because it is better defined and opens up discussion, though often it is just people telling me I am stupid. The irony of that both funny and sad at the same time.

Hope this was helpful.

2

There's a lot left out here. To be clear, just because a person doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they can't be an asshole.

4

small samples lead to lousy judgments. so you met a stranger who happened to be an atheist and also happened to be obnoxious (in ways you have not specified, so it is hard to understand what bothered you about the conversation). i mean, i have NO idea what behaviors you're talking about. i'm not doubting you -- but i can't have an opinion about behaviors that have not been specified. did the person spit? call you a name? tell you you were stupid? what? anyway, let's imagine (since, without information, all i can DO is imagine) that this person was just plain vile. is this what WHAT is like? it's what THAT PERSON was like. would you judge all women by one rude woman? would you judge all short people by one short person? how about people from iowa? would one rude person from iowa make you ask "is this what it's like"?

i also have to wonder what you think "atheist" means. an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods. s/he might even actively believe there are no gods.. that's ALL it means. it doesn't mean a member of a certain club, or a crusader for a certain cause (although since atheists get attacked a lot, sometimes we have the pretty reasonable agenda of getting people to stop attacking us), or people who like pizza, or people who don't like pizza. it JUST means someone for whom there are no gods. so since you don't believe there is a god, in what way are you not an atheist? what is wrong with the word, for you?

g

There’s no right or wrong for me! And if there is a label others want me to stand by it’s not my business... I can say without explanation that I am not in fact an atheist. As well not too bothered for an explanation I didn’t ask about.

@mychelle "is this what it's like?" isn't asking for an explanation? pardon me for trying to answer what i thought you might be asking. a more specific question might have gotten you an answer you wanted, although i try to answer truthfully rather than as people want me to answer.

g

@CoastRiderBill i tried to answer her question, which was difficult because her question was so vague. i had to hearken back to what she said before asking the question to try to figure it out. a lot of that struck me as illogical. this is what directed my comment. i don't know what else i could have said that would have been at all helpful, and my purpose in answering was to be helpful. it turns out my attempt to help was unappreciated and maybe even resented. i did my best. oh WELL.

g

@genessa “is this what it’s like?” was a general statement(with a question mark) because this person was a stranger that asked me on a date
... I have had tons of conversation about the topic with people I know and have known and respected ... It usually feels like an exchange. I fully arrived to said date with excitement I thought great new exchange... it wasn’t an exchange it was the above described. Iv been on this road for over 30 years. I know enough to be respectful to everyone’s processes and beliefs always. Writing does not convey emotion you asked why I felt something is “wrong”. I was trying to clarify it’s not about right or wrong... good or bad... simply put I hoped it was going to be an easier way i for the first time was meeting someone with a similar beliefs I was thrown for a loop not thinking this would be the outcome... so there I don’t think I can explain any further

@mychelle okay, that helps a little, it was a date. by wrong i didn't mean evil. i meant wrong for you.

g

2

Forget labels. Just share and compare ideas honestly. The rest will take care of itself.

1

Do you think that the person was a jerk because they were an atheist or do you think they were a jerk who was also an atheist, sometimes we may make the wrong connection.

2

It sounds like you were talking to an evangelical atheist. Evangelical in this case meaning “marked by militant or crusading zeal”.

Those types seem to have similar mental problems as evangelical, dogmatic religious types. They need to know that they are right so they can close off their mind. They want everybody around them to think the same way so they try to micromanage your thoughts. I think they do these things because it brings them comfort as opposed to pursuing deeper understanding of the hard questions of ultimate existence.

YES!!!

3

A data set of one is not enough to start generalising from.

3

Dogma in any ilk is off-putting. Strident atheists can be as, if not more annoying than the JC crew.

3

No. Most of us, agnostic and atheist alike, really aren’t that intimidating. I welcome you to think whatever you like, as long as you respect my opinions.

1

I certainly respect the right that a person has to thier own opinions, but I am under no obligation to respect the actual "opinion" AKA potential bullshit. Agnostics in my opinion, are hanging on to the notion that god exists. They have a right to believe or fear whatever they want, but could be subject to ridicule if they insert themselves in the company of such. Not saying it's "polite", just saying it could happen. We don't need religion at all when it comes to differences in opinion or thought. Even without religion in the world sects would continue to exist. Fact.

agnotics are denying the ability to know gods don't exist. they aren't by any necessity hanging on to the notion that they do.

@HereticSin I differ on that. I think that they are. BTW - I "cannot know" that a purple winged pig in a tutu, doesn't exist in the sky.

@LilAtheistLady and? that proves that agnostics think there is a god how?

@HereticSin OK. I'm not afraid of "being wrong" or learning something new. Lets talk this out.
Here is a definition that I found online. Your thoughts?:

  1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

@LilAtheistLady yes, that's my working definition. they accept neither "there is a god" nor "there is no god" as knowable assertions, and reject the positive claim passively as opposed to actively.

"disbelief" is active, it's not the same as "lack of belief"

@HereticSin I am trying to understand.
In my mind i interpret that to mean that the agnostic completely dismisses the human intellect's capacity to reason in that they rely on the "prove a negative" argument that suggests that since one cannot prove or disprove (we cannot know or not know) purple winged ghost pigs in tutus exist in the sky or do not exist, there can be the potential that they do (or not).

@LilAtheistLady oh, that I don't disagree with, but "agnostic" is about "justified true belief", demonstrable knowledge, not "justified belief", an assumption of truth based on reason.

the term is about what can be KNOWN vs. what should be believed. the guy who coined it was an atheist, but would have laughed at "I know there is no god" as much as he did "I know there is a god".

2

there are obnoxious idiots in every walk of life sadly

1

Blow it off. Consider it a look at one way you don't want to be.

2

Beliefs are to be challenged. I do not know the specifics of your situation, so can't really comment. If the other person criticizes your ideas, no matter how harshly, and not you, it is a fair game. It is the responsibility of everyone involved in the debate to separate the person and the beliefs. Beliefs are dispensable, but not the person. It is easy to feel attacked when our ideas are attacked, but we must resist that.

Then I should have been fair warned that I’d be debating instead of dating don’t want to do both not at first anyways

1

Ahhhh, the old believer-in-atheist-clothes ploy.

1

Can you share an example, or two, of what you thought was over the top?

I don’t think he was a bad guy and I don’t want to shame anyone... I chose my word pourposely and carefully a bit vague.

@mychelle How can this be about shaming? This about examples of behavior that disturbed you.

Our responses will be more interesting. And more to the point.

And we all learn.

@mychelle Shaming is about a bully saying shit about an innocent.
The guy was the bully. So, you are not saying shit about anyone innocent.
And, those who behave as you have described need to be outed to the extent possible.

@Jacar why? He didn’t do anything wrong? We just didn’t connect he is just different than me... there are people on my threads being way more disrespectful than he was... I can handle my own life events

2

You are going to find such people no matter the subject. Explore your own intrigue.

2

There's always going to be people who take things way too far or seriously: religion, politics, social issues, etc. When these people encounter another person on social media who doesn't believe or take a certain stance as seriously as them, then they can become offensive/attack you. Many of these extremists define themselves by their beliefs, and they take it personally when someone doesn't believe what they do.

I had two people on here recently be complete douchebags to me. One went completely apeshit because I didn't agree with him that we should "kill Trump." I don't agree or like Trump, but I'm not going to say we should kill him. The other person got butthurt that I didn't take an political poll on here seriously even though it had no consequences on real life what we chose in the poll.

Most people here are good people.

1

You are going to meet people you don’t agree with in every walk of life. Why tag Atheists on the interactions with one or two people? Anymore than you would assume all Jews are money pinchers or Muslims terrorists?

He said “ I’m an atheist”. I never tagged him

1

I've been told I'm not an atheist because I believe in a few things that (as far as they're concerned) I should not believe in.

I've also met an atheist that did not believe in science.

Like religions, not all atheist are the same. Ignore the ones that aren't aligned with you and go about your everyday life. They're not worth stressing over.

@Hercules3000 an atheist lacks a belief in gods. you can be an atheist and believe in all sorts of shit not provable by experimentation. you can be an atheist who believes fairy people color the flowers in the spring, so long as you don't think it's gods.

@Hercules3000 I've never figured that one out. I only had one date with him and never saw him again.

@Hercules3000 I'm unsure what your feelings about someone believing that have to do with anything at all. I was pointing out the fact, not making a judgment about it.

2

My worldview is informed by the epistemology of evidentialism wherein the definition of evidence is in alignment with the scientific method. What all that incredibly confusing verbiage means is that a belief must be restricted to those things for which there is adequate real (objective) evidence to justify the belief.

This view automatically determines that I cannot make any assertion without having evidence to support the assertion. Because of this, in any discussion of deity I will appear to be agnostic and with good reason. With the same reasoning, I am also an atheist because I have insufficient evidence to hold any belief in the supernatural. I do not believe in a god or gods, but I cannot deny the possibility that I might be wrong.

So, I am free of all superstitions, including the belief in deity.

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