Obviously you can not change another person—only they can change themselves. What might not be obvious is that the other person’s opinions might just be superior to our own, and that perhaps it is we who need to learn and change.

IMO, more important than to express opinions is to respect each other.

Yes, it is false thinking, but not "completely", as there are soem peopel otu there who simply never havethought of or considered alternatives to the beliefs they were raised with.

However, the vast majority of religious persons so prefer their fantasies over facts and realities.

Personally, I am more inclined to try to get school to once again teach "logical fallacies" as a part of their curriculum. If people to learn to spot flaw in arguments (religious or political), then they are less likely to cling so strongly to religious views. This would not be a "cure all", but it woudl be a step in the right direction.

You hit the nail on the head! The feeling of belonging is what keeps most people in religion. I have heard jws say that if they had evidence that they were wrong, they would still remain in the cult.

The UU is a good choice as they welcome us and I served on the board of directors for 3 years and even provided a sermon one Sunday on atheism.

Yes it would be nicer to live in a world where religious superstition is a thing of the past, as an atheist I do not have a need or desire to "spread the word" and convert people away from faith and religion. I very much believe that every person has the right to think or believe whatever bat shit crazy stuff they want, as long as they are not hurting others.
it is one of the things that I understand the least about the faithful, why they seem to feel it is necessary to impose their beliefs and laws on others.
if you think being gay is wrong and that all gay people are going to hell, why do you protest why are you angry, why do you care that random strangers are gay, they are going to hell and you are not, end of story, sell them a cake and move on.
off topic tho lol
at times I have considered starting or looking for some kind of community that would provide similar things to a church experience without the faith part. actually I think I was a part of one for a while when I was younger, the issue with these groups is that without the god element people find it difficult to make attending regularly a priority and things fall apart. the other big issue is community size, the group I was a part of as a youth in northern Ontario (literally a group of parents and kids who were non religious gathering on Sundays so the kids could together) things started falling apart as A)kids aged out and B)people moved away,
in the pre internet days it would have been nearly impossible to establish an international community of atheists and agnostics, now tho seem possible, could be a good place to start if you mission is to wake people up to reality, providing an alternative community to take part in that has all of the benefits of a religious community just without the religion, might make it easier for the faithful to let go of the faith

Totally agree.

I absolutely agree. My father and I used to argue about a lot of things (religion not being one of them) and he would always say, 'you just don't understand' to which I would reply, 'No, I just think you're wrong.' Understanding doesn't have a lot to do with religious differences. What's going on is that organisms, human or otherwise animal, will stop doing things that don't provide reinforcement and will continue to do things that give them some sort of reward.

The fact that religious thought is so ubiquitous shows that people do got a lot out of it. Otherwise it would have disappeared. Also, when people make choices and then are challenged, their belief becomes stronger (it's called reactance). Since religion is so basic to some people's entire value system, and they chose that value system, disagreeing or arguing with them is only likely to deepen that belief.

I also think it's that element of "belief". We make up beliefs in the absence of any actual data, but the nature of the belief convinces us that our belief is "truth." This it comes built in with a self-defense mechanism. The beliefs about God also deal with those nagging questions that humans can't seem to live without answer to: Why are we here? What happens when we die? What's our purpose in life.

Belief answer all of those, and when that belief is taken away, with it go all the comforts those beliefs brought with them. I think beliefs are necessary since we've been doing it throughout our existence. They help us make sense out of the myriad of information bombarding us constantly, but we haven't figure out how to use them judiciously, and therefore we become their slaves rather than using them to help bridge gaps in our understanding until we have enough information to know otherwise.

If this was a "reasonable" debate, we wouldn't be having it. It's an emotional debate, and that's a whole other problem.

I completely agree. I absolutely don't care what others believe, as long as they don't try to convert me to their beliefs of govern based on it. I never, ever try to convert religious people to my beliefs. Of course there is an evangelical radical fringe who want to make America a theocracy, and they are enabled by Trump and his minions, so I will fight them with every fiber of my being.

I completely agree. I absolutely don't care what others believe, as long as they don't try to convert me to their beliefs of govern based on it. I never, ever try to convert religious people to my beliefs. Of course there is an evangelical radical fringe who want to make America a theocracy, and they are enabled by Trump and his minions, so I will fight them with every fiber of my being.

I agree that some on this site simply do not comprehend the phenomenon of the "True believer" -- ideological or religious. True believers have literally sold themselves to dogmatic belief and it forms the core of how they define themselves. Their need to escape the feeling of powerlessness, lack of knowledge, and of being alone drives them to tis action, to the extent that, if you take their ideological core away from them, they have nothing. To really understand this, one MUST read Erich Fromm's, ESCAPE FROM FREEDOM.

You are right. Humans are hard-wired for tribalism. Free thinkers are variants on the more independent end of the spectrum. Still, we have community. It is just loosely knit.

I don't have to believe in fairy tales to love my fellow man and I don't need to believe in bullshit to give them a hug or a handshake.

We are all we got in this Universe. I feel if more would really think about that and come together we could drop all the religious nonsense.

Well said and right on. The reason that I joined UU was for community plus there is nothing to believe, no dogma about invisible beings, just a respect for all beings.

Preach!

I can see why you think that if you have come from the comfort of being part of a community, such as a Church congregation. I never ever had that and feel quite at home being “different “ from others. Here where I live it would be easy to feel like an outsider if you left your religion I think. I, on the other hand have always been accepted by people of different faiths and denominations as being a bit of an anomaly, but never with hostility , more like curiosity. Never ever having had a faith I obviously am in a completely different category from most of you.