The following only addresses the use of White phosphorus in Syria. It does not address its use elsewhere.

White phosphorus is only illegal if used against civilians. So is most anything in the way of military munitions or military action. You are not supposed to use them against civilians.

So, when your enemy, ISIS in this case, deliberately hides among and within captive civilian populations, they put that civilian population at risk. But, when other forces (such as the US or Syria) attempt to dislodge ISIS, they get blamed for any civilian casualties.

It’s classic Catch 22. If you do nothing, ISIS is free to act with impunity. And, if you try to dislodge ISIS, you are the bad guy. Civilians get caught in the crossfire. Those who hide among civilians are the ones creating the situation. They are the ones that should be blamed.

@Rob1948 Such a difficult situation. The Genenva Convention and its rules of war were set up to give within warfare some sembalance of order and safety for non-combatants.
It admits that war will happen, and this must be between sovereign states and their armed forces. Of course, if you see conflict differently to the Geneva Convention and refuse to come out and play with the big boys on their terms, then everything goes horribly wrong.
The Terrorist cannot fight major forces of Nation States, so must force them to fight on their terms. That is when the Catch 22 comes into play. In the end, war is war and people get killed and maimed and as you have said, it those who hide amongst the civilians are responsible.

Not all the Muslims are as you described, if so why were the ones I was on a retreat with and lived among in an apartment complex, peaceful? Generalizing just is not helpful!

How many Muslims do you know personally, how many have you ever sat down with and had a drink with, and talked. And if Mohammed was a pedophile, what is Donald and a lot of Republicans?

Yes, how many muslims do you know?

A strange unqualified statement about Mohammad. Do you have references to back the claim or are you just being inflammatory. If not you could say Cardinal Pell was a paedophile. Wait a minute...yes, he was convicted by a jury! Evidence over hearsay is always a preferred method of enquiry.

when khadija died... I think that was his first wife's name, he was by then leading and conquering lands. His 2nd wife was VERY young like 6 I think. Back then marriage to a girl that young meant the man had to wait. From all historical accounts of the time he did. But girls 10-12 were regularly married at that time (not just muslims). Aishaa was his second wife and the daughter of his right hand man Abu Bakr. I hope I'm getting this right. All marriages after Khadija were to cement bonds or relationships with tribes. So yes he had a few wives but Aishaa was his favorite and he consulted her and respected her. I took a course on Islamic sectarianism some years ago... feel free to correct me.

By the way back then all tribes regardless of faith or lack thereof were marrying off little girls for advancement, one less mouth to feed or a payoff. That's just how it was.

@Knitfreak Indeed as you said. A few years ago in rural Pakistan a 6 year old was married off to a man in his forties who killed her on their wedding night by having sex. He was then arrested and executed under law. Although married, he was meant to wait until she was old enough. The marraige was meant to join two families.

@Sofabeast just because that guy did, does not mean mohamad did. Were you there? Child marriages were common and yes, it is still a tribal practice and even exists here in the USA. Nice lunatic christian men raping little girls. The world is a sick place.

"I've got an idea!!!! Let's just stop fighting wars!!!!" Given the caliber of weapons involved, we will stop fighting wars one way or the other . . . . consider the dispute between India and Pakistan . . . . a full-blown nuclear exchange between the two countries could cause the demise of the human race . . . . so we will either stop fighting wars the easy way, or we will stop fighting wars the hard way.

@THHA
I went to Vietnam all pumped up with the righteous patriotism of youth. It took me awhile to realize that I was the invader. I, was, THE ENEMY.
Your meme is spot on.

@OwlInASack Now you're thinking.
Thank you.

One definition I have read:
A terrorist is anyone with a bomb and no air force.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." It is all a matter of perspective.

@Gooniesnvrdie For me it was the day I saw a Guy decapitated in his tank from the round I fired will live with me the rest of my life

When there are companies out there hiring people willing to design ways to harm others for a large salary, greed tends to win over inhumanity especially when the end results aren't witnessed firsthand.

@Holysocks what a horrible fact! Can you believe that from a very early age, I saw that I could not work where alcohol was sold, because I had seen up close, what it does to a person and anyone else, that must be exposed to an alcoholic!

@Freedompath Unfortunately, I can believe it and have seen too much and heard people tell of our amazing capability of harming others to try to deny it.

Apparently, you need to work on sourcing your information as there appear to be few to no members of Congress with dual citizenship.

[politifact.com]

It appears that this matter is not easily sorted out, given that there is no requirement that public officials reveal it . . . [foreignpolicyjournal.com] But that changes very little, and, given the war crimes of both our own government and Israel, it is clear who the real terrorists are.

@THHA so, the fact that the assertion about dual citizenship can’t be supported means that “that changes little”? On the contrary, that changes a lot. The assertion can’t be supported. In fact, it would appear that the assertion is essentially false. That means any conclusions drawn from the assertion that a “high percentage” of Congress have dual citizenship, therefore their loyalties are questionable as a result, is built on a house of cards. That, logically, it is a false assertion. Yeah. That changes everything.

I won’t defend Israel. Or the US. BUT, you forget that Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas have also committed terrorist acts. Or, to be fair, it’s a war. And, it doesn’t change that fact that, if they could, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and others would joyously wipe Israel and every Jew in the Middle East off the face of the earth. That is genocide. So, if you want to lay blame on one side, be honest and place that blame on both sides. That would be a lot closer to a fair description of the situation than you assert.

@Rob1948 Listen bub, I did not make that assertation, perhaps you should read the thread again. The only thing I said was that it changes very little, which is in fact true with regard to what I said. So, just because you think you can jump in to the conversation, on a thread you did not create, and think you can debunk the whole thing by pointing out something inaccurate about what someone else said, does not mean what I said was wrong in any way. None of the countries that you have mentioned have invaded so many countries . . . . In FACT the USA:
.
interfered in Iraq - there is a war there now.
interfered in Syria - there is a war there now.
interfered in Libya - there is a war there now.
interfered in Yemen - there is a war there now.
interfered in Ukraine - there is a war there now.
interfered in Somalia - there is a war there now.
interfered in Afghanistan - there is a war there now.
And NOW, wants to interfere in Venezuela.
And these are the same bastards who have, in
fact, used White Phosphorous and Depleted Uranium.
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No pattern of behavior here at all, right?
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It is clear as day who is responsible for all the chaos . . . the knuckle-dragging assholes in Washington, who are nothing but yes-men for Israel.

@OwlInASack I only mentioned states and organizations, as that is their official policy. Genocide is not the official policy of Israel, though it certainly matches some (not all) of their actions. I did not mention that every Jew or every Muslim want to wipe the other off the face of the earth because, as you note, that simply is not true.

@THHA

First, my name is not “bub.” Second, I can come come in and reply to any comment on this thread if I choose to for any reason I choose. You do not have the authority to tell me I cannot do that, even if you create the thread. So get off your high horse.

Second, the intent of my original comment was to debunk the false assertion (that a “high percentage” of Congress has dual citizenship “with Israel” and thus, their loyalties are questionable) you made. My original comment even implied that you did not know it was false by suggesting you check your sources before making such a statement.

The way you replied to that basically said that you did not care because, as you put it “that changes very little.” Well, it does when you are basing your thoughts, opinion and facts on a false statement.

Third, I did not try to defend the actions of the US or Israel. It would be fruitless to attempt to discuss (in this thread, or with you, judging by your most recent rant). The issue is complex and there are valid points to be made in both directions. A fact you seem to ignore.

In particular, I did not address the use of munitions containing white phosphorous. I did not defend it. I did not say it did not happen. I did not deny whether it happened or not. I did not mention that, in Syria in particular, the Syrians have been known to lie about their actions and that of others, or that none of the parties involved are known to always be honest about what happens in Gaza.

And, I did not address Gaza directly, with you. What I did do was point out that the Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas have also committed terrorist acts and acts of war and that they support genocide against Jews, particularly in Israel. I did that for balance, to point out that simply blaming one side, as if that is the answer to the discussion is not adequate to assess blame, as you appear to do. For that sin, I received a diatribe from you.

So, absent proof from some organization, other than the nebulous “Facebook post from a friend,” I chose not address, in any way, the original post in this thread. I addressed your false statements about Congressional citizenship. To which you replied that it did not matter because it changed little. Yet, it changes much when you try to frame the argument based on Congress is made up of Israeli citizens.

Anything else you mentioned is far afield if the topic of this thread. You make assertions about the actions of the US that are not all correct (and I will leave it at that because it apparently would matter little to you that you are wrong because your mind appears to be made up). You make your accusations about US actions as if they are facts and proof of wrong doing. They are not proof of wrong doing. In some instances, they are not even fact.

You have now added depleted uranium to your charge and yes, the US used depleted uranium in Iraq during their military actions there. I’m am not going to defend nor discuss any of those points because, again, the reason for those actions are not so simple and cut and dried as your statements that they are examples of wrong doing would make of them.

Have a nice day.

@OwlInASack it is but, I was replying to a point where only one side was mentioned...and, it was not the side I mentioned. Given that, I did not see any point in repeating their side.

@ Bub . . . . "my original comment was to debunk the false assertion (that a “high percentage” of Congress has dual citizenship “with Israel” and thus, their loyalties are questionable) you made."

I made? Where?

I did not make that assertation . . . that is the whole point. That is EXACTLY why I said you should re-read the thread, because you cannot seem to comprehend that I did not make any such assertation, so, on top of just being plain rude, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem, so do not wonder why I used the term "bub" . . . . if someone is rude to me, I am not going to take it lying down, and, contrary to what you might believe, I DO have the power to deal with comments on my thread.
.
Go back and READ what I said, and you will find, at no time did I ever assert that a “high percentage” of Congress has dual citizenship “with Israel” . . .
.
In fact, I will even make it easy for you, press control - "F", type in "dual", and find where I used the word . . . .

.
Let's see if you are willing to admit it.

@THHA my apologies. Since you seemed to support it, I made the faulty assumption that you made that assumption. I readily admit you did not make the assertion but another did, that I should not have tagged you and that that original remark was what I replied to. Deal with it. As for your snide remark... I admitted it.

I don’t care whose thread this is, and that it is yours still does not give you the right to be rude to me. I was not rude to you. Direct yes. But, that is not rude. You were rude to me. To paraphrase you, let’s see you admit that.

The article you reference about dual citizenship seems to support the idea that it is a problem, addressing it as if it is a real thing/problem. The article I posted goes a long way to debunking the thought that dual citizenship in Congress is even a problem.

But, allow me to address your article reference directly. In the current Congress, there are 28 members that were born in a country other than the US. Eleven of those members became naturalized US citizens. There are four whose citizenship comes from a process called Derivation. NONE of those members were born in Israel. And, while I cannot state unequivocally that one or more in Congress might have applied for Israeli citizenship because of Jewish heritage, it is not an automatic process, and no current member of Congress is known to have done so. It is highly doubtful that there is anyone in Congress today whose votes and decisions with respect to the Middle East is tainted by Israeli citizenship. There are 535 members plus the Vice President in Congress. One or two or even 24 is not the definition of a problem of significance.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

As for the rest of my comments, you ARE the one that said “that changes very little, and, given the war crimes of both our own government and Israel, it is clear who the real terrorists are.” No. It isn’t. It’s a complex issue. And, you conveniently forget to mention that Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas are actively involved in terrorist acts along with ISIS. By not mentioning them, you strongly imply that only Israel and the US are the problem.

Sorry to break your bubble, but you were indeed rude to me, you jumped the gun without ever reading the post, the comment before the one you made, or at minimum did not understand what you read, then doubled down on it after I suggested you re-read the thread, and you didn't. If you look at the thread, I said that it was "a matter not easily sorted out", but I guess you missed that too. I was returning the favor, and in that, I make no denials. Also, just because I am pointing out the behavior of the US, it does not mean or imply in any way that I consider it to be a one-sided issue, although I consider it to be an extremely lopsided issue.
.
We are in their countries, stirring up trouble, and, if they were in OUR country, with their MILITARY, assassinating people with drones, using white phosphorous, depleted uranium, killing innocents, I doubt very seriously anyone here would be thinking it was in any way acceptable, if fact, they would be damned awful pissed off, and would want to get some payback.

@THHA I read the post and I apologized for thinking you made the comment I responded too. Not reading a post, as you ASSUMED I did not do, is not rude. And, as noted, I read your original post and, for the third time, deliberately did not respond to it. If you want to say I was off topic, so be it. But, keep in mind, I responded to an off topic comment then. (Aside: interesting how that off topic comment does not bother you.)

Now, since you continue to excoriate me for the same thing AFTER I APOLOGIZED for the same thing (would you do that to your children, spouse or coworkers after they apologized?)... what is it about an unequivocal apology that you do not recognize. Do I need to slit my wrist for you to accept it. Or kiss you ass (ain’t gonna happen) or just say “oh, yes master, you were right I wrong in all you said and posted.” (Ain’t gonna happen either. I already apologized.)

“A matter not easily sorted out” is not entirely clear when you clearly, multiple times, choose to blame the US and Israel of various “crimes” (at least one of which is not factual) without once mentioning your complex issues or even tangentially mentioning ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran or Syria, (and I will add Russia to that list as well) while referring to the US as “terrorists” and “bastards.” You May admit to it being complex but you clearly have a bias.

Beyond that, I am done with you. Just know, I apologized. I was not rude by any common definition of the word. I did read your original post despite your assumption I did not. And, you were intentionally rude to me. And, you still have not acknowledged that I apologized to you.

Apology accepted. I am not going to re-hash what I said . . . . good enough for one day.

@rob1948 that states that they don't have automatic citezenship with israel .. Which is an entirely different matter.

@AmmaRE007 that’s true. They don’t. And, none are known to. If they did, I’m sure they would be outed by legitimate sources.

This piece of dreck, see image, purporting to show current Congressional members with dual US/Israeli citizenship has floated around for a number of years. This version is on a 2018 post. It’s wrong obviously. Franken is no longer in Congress. Lautenberg is dead, and while that description may fit some past Senators, he is still not in the Senate in 2018. See [politifact.com]? for more information. Also, see [en.m.wikipedia.org] for information about foreign born Congressional members. I recount some of that above as well.

@Rob1948 THERE are many who do have dual citezenship, it is just hard to pinpoint, since the senators and congress don 't have to revel if they have the dual citezenship with Israel.

@AmmaRE007 and your basis for that conclusion is what?

EXACTLY! All those free trips for zionazi cheerleading camp... Many in our congress vote for israel over the USA

@Rob1948 IF Iran truly wanted to kill the Jews, wouldn't they start at home? There's a lovely old Jewish population in Shiraz, Iran. They live peacefully and those Jews I know who have traveled there, said they felt safer there than in israel. I think you have fallen for the propaganda from israel.

@Knitfreak no. I listen to what their leaders say about Israel. Perhaps, if you are right, they are lying about wanting to destroy Israel. But, one should consider this: the Palestinians in Gaza and those groups in Lebanon who fire missiles at Israel don’t have the means to manufacture said missiles. They get them from Iran.

There is this:

[google.com]

Which he later tried to walk back, a week later, saying he meant that it should be accomplished by popular vote. Khamenei faced a strong criticism for his remarks a week earlier causing him to moderate his response. [apnews.com]

A couple of months earlier, he said negotiating with Israel would be a mistake.

And a week after he moderated his tone, He renewed his death wish for Israel. [google.com]

One way or another, he wants to destroy Israel.

@Rob1948 If and I say again IF you spoke Persian you would know that what he is actually saying is "israel will destroy itself"
But you don't and either you or the original translator used google for that translation... an israeli company

Lots more to it than just buying what you are being sold.

AND those bottle rockets sent over the fence from the palestinian version of the warsaw ghetto are answered with hundreds of dead Palestinian kids. Poor little Shlomo needs a bandaid and poof another 500 dead Palestinian kids who are trapped in Gaza. Try a little perspective on the whole picture. Yes... hamas is not a great group. But I would tell you that they are far better than the baby killing IDF.

@Rob1948 and just so you know... LOTS around the globe think israel shouldn't exist including any Jew who actually knows Jewish law and did not lose their torah in a rush to go pick off kids and steal land. Zionism is the opposite of Judaism.

@Knitfreak really? And, do you have a source for your statement?

@Rob1948 Do you need a persian for the translation? Contact Nesreen at DePaul University. I also have a pal named Mitesh from Iran and a coworker from Iran. Nesreen can be contacted here: [las.depaul.edu]

@Rob1948 or did you need a source for the reality that Israel exists against Jewish Law? Exile... Jews were ordered to be in exile until the world is at peace. Jews are to live in subjugation to other nations and work to bring peace to the world. That is all in the Torah. True Torah Jews are here: [truetorahjews.org]

@Rob1948 my Persian is not so great but I do speak Arabic and Hebrew.

@Closeted My friend Mitesh went on and on about how he loved Iran as a Jew visiting family. It's an amazing old culture of Judaism there in Shiraz.

@Knitfreak A. One of my sources was an Iranian newspaper. I hardly think they would have an Israeli translate that.

B. See image. Those are not bottle rockets, as you so quaintly put it.

As for the rest. Sources please. I have gone to the effort of sourcing my comments. It would nice if you would as well.

@Rob1948 try this one and keep on defending the indefensible... [rememberthesechildren.org]

I have given you lots of sources... if you choose not to go and check it out... on you Have a nice day... I gotta get back to work

@Rob1948 the bottle rockets comment was a comparison to the american weapons that the zionazis use on the civilians in Gaza... settle down a tad... It's a lot to take in when you have thought your whole life that Israel was a democracy, Jewish and a victim and you find it is not the case at all. It was quite a shock to me as well.
Try this one and feel free to look up anything that upsets you or strikes you as wrong: [ifamericaknew.org]

@Rob1948 one more just for flavor ... like who really likes using human shields??

[news.bbc.co.uk]

@Knitfreak using a fringe website to prove a point does not prove a point. It is one point of data out of many. As to the legitimacy of Israel, the UN recognizes Israel as a nation state. All other commentary aside, that is the reality we have.

@Knitfreak don’t make statement you can’t support. I can’t read your mind.

@Rob1948 I have supported my statements. You just choose not to like the way I did so. I really would encourage you to read more about it. If you care to learn, stop fighting and read

again... have a great day!

@Rob1948 what makes a fringe website? is it because they tell you something that is not the socialization norm for your nation? Learning about others means stepping out of your comfort zone. Thousands of kids dead... that remember the children site. Shakes up your view of the zionazi victimhood. You don't like it? okay... fact check it. Go on... When I read something that I don't like or it makes me think WHAAAAAAAAAAAT??? I go look at other sites to see if it is crap. If americans knew is a great site and you can fact check every bit. But that would take you caring to learn.

@Rob1948 you're talking to a Jew who speaks arabic and who studied arab culture and islam in university.

Be well

@Knitfreak so. I never challenged your language skills. Just because you speak Arabic and, I assume though I don’t recall you mentioning it, Hebrew, does not impart some special capacity to discern truth.

I never challenged your religion nor your beliefs.

I fact check too. While I will look at single-point-of-view sites, I prefer to use sources that present both sides of an issue.

I’ll give you my opinion about Israel and Palestinians. Israel is a nation and, as such, recognized by the UN despite what the Arab world would like. Whether it should exist or not is a discussion that needs to go back to WW I and the British partitioning, WW II and the Zionist movement, the granting of nationhood and subsequent attacks by Arab nations. I’m sure you know the history seubsequent to that, to current day. Both sides have done things to sabotage legitimate negotiations. And, each time one side or the other breaks a cease-fire, they have made it more difficult to back off. They have created, for themselves, non-negotiable base positions from which a cease fire is nearly impossible.

The Palestinian people are caught in the middle, between Israel, and Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/Syria. Even when there had been a true opportunity for resolution, those unwilling to negotiate destroy the opportunity.

Both parties are wrong and both are right. At this point, there are very few options to resolution. And, both have to realize and embrace one immutable fact: both Israel and the Palestinians have the right to exist in peace. And, any organization or country that believes differently is the problem.

Getting rid of the current Israel government is a step in the right direction. Stopping the creation of new settlements on the wet bank is another. Hamas and Hezbollah stopping attacks of any type, and Israel fiing the same is another. Opening the Gaza borders to trade another. And, finally, Iran stopping it’s military and political support to Hamas and Hezbollah is another. All parties, to emphasize the point, must accept the fact that both Israel and the Palestinians have a right to exist. Anything less should be a non-starter.

@Rob1948 yes... the palestinians should not have to exist in an apartheid setting. Theirs is worse than South Africa was. Israel should return stolen land or allow those living there to be counted as citizens. Stop starving the people of gaza and I would bet the rockets stop. EVERY single attack was preceded by israeli agression. I think if I was stuck somewhere with no pasta or crayons allowed in, no right to fish my own waters without being shot at and unable to get medical care, I would acquire and throw rockets too. Israel needs to return to it's own borders. If it is a nation, shouldn't it have borders? anyway... I would agree it is a mess... women are regularly stripped naked to be searched at crossings as they try to reach a hospital to give birth. They and their babies often die as they wait, naked and humiliated. I see no fault on the palestinians and put it all on the zionazis. They learned quite well how to torture and humiliate from their former nazi masters.

Reality is that a people came out of camps in Europe, starving and having nothing. Their homes had been burned, villages razed and their families killed. They arrived at a new land, killed families, burned homes and razed villages.

Watch "The Promise." It's a short mini series from the British point of view about the founding of that rogue state.

I can tell you that when I started to learn what was real over there I was so upset that I had been lied to my whole life. Brainwashed to believe in the zionazi fantasy. Then I started to realize that those who spoke of this great nation of israel to me, were also brainwashed. Somewhere between Europe and the Palestinian lands, the jews threw their torahs in the sea and decided to live on hate and murder, all the while crying victim and playing on the guilt of WWII.

It's a mess...

@Knitfreak we disagree on one point. The cease fires that existed were not all broken by Israel. In some instances, attacks from either Gaza or Lebanon also resulted in breaking cease fires. Both sides have been responsible.

@Rob1948 They are though... there will be an incursion to assassinate someone in hamas by the IDF. Or the IDF will sit in the towers shooting at kids. Deny supplies and food access to cross over... eventually a cornered dog will fight. And those poor people in Gaza have every right to fight against the nazi oppression that keeps crayons from crossing into Gaza for their kids. Yeah... crayons... the zionazis are simply trying to starve them out. No macaroni, no building supplies, books for kids, wait... all this typing... old list from huff post: [huffingtonpost.com]

@Knitfreak if someone (or a publication) referred to Palestinians as “sand n*****s”, sand nazis,” “ragheads” and similar terms (things I would never do), you would think that person is prejudiced against Palestinians. You would automatically discount what that person said.

Right?

So, leaving out the irony of you using the terms, what should I think of you when you call Israeli Jews “nazis” and ”zionazis?” You have used the terms several times now. They speak of emotional involvement. They suggest you’ve lost logical perspective. And, they undercut your position as a result.

I would like to think you haven’t lost perspective to the point that you can’t see the wrong in both sides or the good in both sides. But, using emotional pejoratives to refer to Israelis ... it’s not a good image.

@Rob1948 They are nazis. I appreciate your view, but it is not mine. They ARE nazis and deserve to be called such. It's not about loss of perspective or truth. I know the truth is on my side. Feel free to disagree

[whatreallyhappened.com]

You have every right to your opinion. Mine just kinda follows the realities

@Rob1948 by the way I'm not at all prejudiced against Jews.Remember, I am a Jew. Within Judaism, Israel is your struggle with god. It is NOT a racist apartheid nation in the middle east. I can say I don't believe in god and I am still considered a jew as my denial would be considered my israel.

I have every right to hate the nazi bastards who hijacked a faith and fooled the world to steal kill and maim on a daily basis.

@Knitfreak I know you are a Jew. That is why I referred to irony. As for the rest... we are going to have to disagree on your use of pejoratives.

@Rob1948 if you need a squishier version of the truth... go here: [annainthemiddleeast.com]

Anna is also a jew and a wonderful speaker for Palestine.