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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral

Yes, but is our freedoms burning?

Is our planet burning?

The news reports this with more gravitas than the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children around the globe.

It rightly weeps for a landmark historic building as its corporate sponsors do the same to our world's wild spaces and the habitats of species much older than Notre Dame that are lost forever.

They poison the impoverished worldwide, with nary a tear.

They spend countless trillions on destruction and death while lamenting what goes unfunded.

Guns and butter... it's always guns and butter.

By WilliamCharles7
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Strangely enough, the destruction of this little girl's home hurts me more... mostly because so many people couldn't care less.

When little ones cry like that the whole world should cry with them.

I think I agree.


If its Catholic, sure the Vatican can afford to rebuild.

powder Level 8 Apr 15, 2019

Yes...but it's not the same thing smile003.gif

Tru dat. Even after molestation settlements.

Yeah but getting the Vatican to fork out for it would akin to squeezing blood out a stone.


It's sad. People gave their lives for this place. The loss of artwork is terrible.

It reminds me of the deaths protecting artwork in the Burt Lancaster movie "The Train." I'm relieved no one died in the actual fire here at least.


I get astounded and sickened when I think of how much money, time, effort and human lives went into build such edifices to Gullibility in times when people could barely scratch out a living, had to taxes to both the country, the church (as they still do) and the self-appointed Nobilities as well.
All a church/cathedral really is is a monument to 'house' an Imaginary, Invisible, Useless invention, aka, a God.

Triphid Level 8 Apr 15, 2019

I fully completely agree with you. Free thinking and discarding the old belief systems is the real solution to our crooked, sick thinking with highly screwed up priorities.

Tiramisu Level 7 Apr 16, 2019

Notre Dame Cathedral burning and some atheists feel sorry that a so called piece of art namely the old structure is destroyed? Well, this ‘art’ represents a structure where lies are taught generation after generation. This piece of ‘art’ is tax exempt while the poor sleep in the streets. Why don’t churches and temples let the homeless sleep in them? These ‘art’ were built through slave labor and there are even reports that the handicapped such as blind people are forced into labor for these ‘art’. These structures are ‘evil art’ if they are truly ‘art’. I won’t lose a tear for their destruction. All I see is evil when I see one of these ‘art’ structures.

Russel51 Level 3 Apr 16, 2019

what reports? i looked it up and saw no indications of this. if you are going to make such claims, back them up. i am not saying it didn't happen. i am saying i can't find reports that it did, you mention them and you do not share them. quite frankly, i cannot even find a source that says the cathedral is tax-exempt. many churches and synagogues DO allow the homeless to sleep within, although i have seen at least one report that churches that do so are fined. [churchtimes.co.uk]
i have to go now, as real life calls. i do not want my words to be mistaken for an endorsement of religion in general or catholicism in particular; they are no such thing. i just don't see the point in hating a beautiful piece of art, NOT evil art, but just art, and blaming it for what humans do.



it's not a contest. we can be sad for the destruction of beautiful art and architecture without fearing being thought callous to the plight of the hungry and wretched. whether we do or not is another story but there is no point in condemning the media for reporting an historic and tragic event. it does not cheapen other historic and tragic events to cover it.


genessa Level 8 Apr 16, 2019

We can also contrast those things that get treated as no big deal though they are.

@WilliamCharles well, i don't know what news you've been consuming. those things are treated as a big deal by some. however, you cannot keep your camera on a million starving children 24/7 and the cathedral was burning rather immediately and it IS a one-time thing. they won't be covering it for that long. the coverage of the other problems may not be constant but it is continuous. i do not think you are speaking from a reasonable perspective.



When it happens to others, particularly when due to US militarism, the MSM does not treat it in quite the same manner.

This Iraqi man is weeping over the theft and destruction of the antiquities of an Iraqi museum, the very cradle of civilization.

It was in the MSM. I would not have known about it at all had they not covered it. There were multiple stories. I don't blame the news agencies, I blame the audience.


They covered it... but they did not speak about it at length with the sorrow and reverence they have with Notre Dame. Mostly because we (the US and allies) were the cause of its destruction and that could not be emphasised to the point that it might sink in.


It is sad. A great work of art for itself. Other equal catastrophes have occurred and been nearly ignored - the giant Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban for interest

Yep. Linked that below. Seems to me the RCC might have opened their substantial coin purse to see that this was done right.


"A single death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
Jos. Stalin


Wow, William Charles...that’s a lot of preaching for an atheist website. We can still comment and feel saddened by the loss of 800 years of architectural achievement, art and history without having to lament every injustice in the world. People can be upset by both. No need to clutch your pearls in outrage.

incrocio Level 3 Apr 15, 2019

I can do both... mourn the historic loss, and point out the types of tragedies and outrages that are essentially ignored, dismissed, or downplayed on a daily basis .

My point stands, and I stand behind my statement.

@WilliamCharles I totally agree.


Thank you. I understand what I consider to be knee jerk reactions from some, but felt it was a good opportunity to contrast the many other heartbreaking tragedies that regularly go unmourned by most.

I appreciate you adding your thoughts and words of support.


Millions go there to experience an Icon of world history. It is not just a building of a dead empire. I'm hoping some good will come of it, and the looting and destruction in Paris will stop.
You made a good point. We have a poor record of maintaining things. 800 hundred years is a blink of an eye when compared to the multiple millennias involved with species adapting to slowly changing environments.

It is tragic indeed. I was outraged at the Taliban destroying the ancient giant carved Buddhas in the cliffs of Afghanistan. We are often quite poor stewards of that which should be preserved.

But also what comes to mind for me is all the pictures of extinct species, many of which are quite recent. I guess we'll have to remember Notre Dame Cathedral by pictures alone now as well.


@WilliamCharles after 9/11, I was all for the Taliban being cleaned up in Afghanistan because of the cliff Buddhas.
It was weird, I'm not Buddhist or religious but I felt a great loss and mourned the loss of those cliff artifact's.


I felt more could have been done by the international community to prevent that... but then they also let Iraqi historical artifacts get looted from Iraqi museums. The owner of ultra Xian Hobby Lobby was caught trading in these antiquities.

@powder not weird at all. It seems like a senseless and stupid act, to destroy something out of pure ignorance. It serves no purpose other then to threaten.


@F-IM-Forty Ever since Religions were invented they've been the biggest vandals in human history, each new one does it's ultimate best to eradicate and destroy everything that either came before it or remotely seems to differ with or oppose it in any way/shape or form.
A prime example of this is what the early Xrstians did in Alexandria, Egypt, they raided the Great library and destroyed over 87% of its contents, they rampaged through Alexandria and MURDERED Scholars by the hundreds, if not thousands, no-one knows exactly how many innocent lives, including men, women, children, scholars, teachers, etc, were slaughtered all in the name of their NEW God.

@Triphid right, and should we be happy when these monuments burn, or feel queasy? Ironically the Catholic church fathered modern science from the ashes of what was lost at Alexandria. History. Is and was a messy affair.

@F-IM-Forty In actual FACT the Catholic Church sought and fought tooth and nail for centuries to suppress and repress sciences, knowledge, human sovial advancement, etc, etc.
For example, Galileo was imprisoned for years for his observations and theories about the Solar System, etc, Newton was threatened with Excommunication by both the Catholic and Anglican Churches for his theory of Gravity at first, who knows, exactly, how many others were persecuted/executed simply because they figured that what religion was teaching was 100% incorrect.
In truth, human advancement has ONLY occurred SINCE the vice-grips of religions have been prised open in the last 100+ years or so.


I was reading through 2 Samuel in my personal devotions a few years ago when I came across a passage of Scripture which caused me to question whether Solomon’s Temple was God’s will. [geekychristian.com]?

Luck 21:5-6 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said,
"As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down."

Antifred Level 7 Apr 16, 2019

It might be a very high profile job to set on fire replicas or any junk and take away whole collection
I hope that thorough investigation to be started.

I was half expecting to hear it being blamed on the Yellow Vest protesters or "Mooslims."


I'll be darn. There's already conspiracy talk.


@WilliamCharles absolutely. Nobody would think today otherwise. That makes a lot of room for theft artists.


They put great effort in reporting that fire. Yet, where's the top headlines of the Betrix incident?, the yellow vests?

TCorCM Level 7 Apr 15, 2019

No, not the yellow wests.

@Jolanta Oh?


Not to mention Macrons popularity has been sitting around 20% since last year and the French have been holding mass, nation wide protests for 22 weeks straight.
Now if this situation occurred in Syria, Lybia (which they did), there are calls for regime change in the first week and sanctions applied.

powder Level 8 Apr 15, 2019

The news seems also to be making this almost a plug for faith. Easter Sunday coming, beloved religious icon of the faithful, etc. And yet, if their worldview is/was true... this is just "stuff." No one died in its destruction. There's truly something to be said for that.


William i couldn't agree more with what you said. yet speaking out with the voice of reason and perspective seems to only attract negative comments.


"Considering all of the issues that threaten both human civilization and animal life on the planet, it seems foolish that people around the world would prioritize replaceable cultural monuments over human life and the health of the planet that they call home. However, this type of behavior is typical for our species, and is precisely the reason why we have problems like war, poverty and endangered species."



So far, according to a news report I watched last night, the ONLY OFFER yet to come from the 'Citadel of Rampant, Robe wearing, Paedophiles, aka the Vatican, has been the usual 'Thoughts and Prayers.'
The generosity of the Church of Child Abuse is as patently as obvious, in my opinion, as is their decency, caring and Honesty.

Triphid Level 8 Apr 17, 2019

2 Peter 3:10 ... The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

Biblical text is not clear here if it is an asteroid hitting Earth or ultimately the Sun expanding into a red giant star burning up everything.

Antifred Level 7 Apr 16, 2019

"The best responses to this catastrophe recall, amid the grief, that Notre Dame’s spire was a nineteenth-century restoration by Eugene Viollet-le-Duc, replacing an original that was taken down in the reign of Louis XVI. Most constructions, all cities, every culture, are constantly rebuilt in the midst of damage and loss. Mourning and renewal are linked together as long as the world goes on. Loss is its own meaning. And civilization is the story of rebuilding."



Notre Dame Cathedral in 360° panorama.


A truly painful loss.

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