Agnostic.com

19 2

Peace of mind produces right values, right values produce right thoughts. Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

What does this mean?

m16566 7 May 30
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

19 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

Thank you for sharing this!

2

Your mind is like water. When the surface is perfectly calm you can see a crystal clear reflection of the environment. When the surface is disturbed the image blurs and/or disappears all together.

Also, I would add at the end that right actions/results produce peace of mind and right thoughts. The process starts over, repeats, accumulates and can be a self reinforcing upward spiral if you keep at it.

1

Haha. My childhood best friend's older brothers were always going on about this book. They rode bikes, of course. 😛

1

This is fiction, borrowing from the teachings of the Buddha. People will argue with words rather than experiment and see for themselves if it is true.

1

Values are simply whatever is important to me. That's really what it all boils down to. How does one end up with the values one has? Well, that would be a worthy dissertation.

most people never question their core values, and when you ask them why they believe what they believe they usually can't tell you.
I have posted many questions designed to ferret out why people believe what they believe. if you're serious about a discussion I would be interested

@m16566 I'm up for it, but not this evening. Another time?

1

This world is messed up. Living here is the first barrier to peace of mind. After that, it goes downhill.

what is the alternative ?

@m16566 There are none that I know of.

1

And the "right" thoughts are???

right thoughts are the healthy ones, they give you a sense of peace and harmony.
like an act of kindness without any expectation of return

@m16566 Yes, but what gives you a sense of peace and harmony may not do it for me or someone else.

@Jolanta That's why each person must find their own path. One person may work at a soup kitchen, another may write poetry. It's fine. We don't all have to be the same.

2

A peace of mind that is vapid creates no right values. Whatever this means (I doubt it is anything other than a platitude), it means something different from what Camus said, and what Camus said is far more valuable than this, in my peacefully humble opinion:

“The evil that is in the world always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence, if they lack understanding. On the whole, men are more good than bad; that, however, isn’t the real point. But they are more or less ignorant, and it is this that we call vice or virtue; the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance that fancies it knows everything and therefore claims for itself the right to kill. The soul of the murderer is blind; and there can be no true goodness nor true love without the utmost clear-sightedness.”

You have to be able to look at the reality and understand it first. Achieving "peace of mind" isn't going to help us. But in order to understand the reality clearly, I agree that we must try to free ourselves from the emotional baggages that tie us down.

I agree. Right intention and right judgement are a team - either on its own is insufficient.

1

I'm not copping to anything but if I did act on what I consider to be my "right" thoughts I could end up in jail and on several shit lists. Serenity? Peace of mind? Not likely. I would say more but on advise from my attorney I'll take the fifth.....

1

it means think right, do right, work. it's a nice thought. thoughts like that do wobble on their platform of everyone's agreeing what "right" is and everyone's caring what "right" is. it is also the antithesis of "the best laid plans of mice and men...."

g

2

Ohferpetessake...if I do not have "right thoughts" (defined as...? By....?) I am doomed to misery?

1

Whatever you want it to.
This kind of stuff is really subjective.

why don't you give it a shot, I would be interested in what you think

@m16566 In all honesty, it means absolutely nothing to me.

2

As the quote gives no definition for "right", it means nothing.

that is a question that I never considered, in my mind right from wrong is self-evident.
I will attempt to definition right is the choice that does the least harm, and the most good.

1

It means nothing to me.

have you noticed in your life, if you're a good person and treat other people right you're happier?
do you find being a better person helps other people to be a better?
do you find the good intentions results in happiness?

@m16566 No. Those things have not been related in my life.

what has been related to you in your life?
what works for you?

@m16566 Gravity & the electromagnetic force seem to be reliable.

G AND EMF
do they make you happy?

@m16566 No, but I don’t think I could be happy without them.

0

so what if my intentions are good, the result of my action is bad?
if the only job I can find is working in a slaughterhouse is that right employment?
if I have a dangerous job and I lied to my mother to to keep her from worrying is that right speech?

1

I think you could change the order of all these elements and it would end up making as much sense: " Right values produce right thoughts. Right thoughts produces right actions. Right actions produce peace of mind. Peace of mind produces work which will..."
Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

You're getting it. It's a virtuous circle.

2

All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage... If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him. -- Dhammapada

Basically, match your thoughts with your deeds...

in order for me to do this first have to know myself, how is that possible?
my actions are the result of external pressures I have no choice in the matter.

@m16566 Must be hard being a robot with no self-determination.

it wasn't my fault they made me angry

there are a bunch of healthy old evil billionares, including rump, that disprove that fairy tale.

0

Yes but what is it meant by right speech. is lying and inherently wrong?
if I lie to spare someone's feelings have they done a service or a disservice?

Its all about intention.

3

It means try not to be an asshole, life is better that way.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:354331
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.