Dont jump me (read first)
I saw a facebook post about that 19 year old dude who felt katy perry had sexually harassed him because she stole a kiss.
I personally think this modern atmosphere of requiring consent for everything is pretty dangerous. I get that it's uncomfortable when you don't want someone to kiss you, but this is how people explore sexual territory.
They push boundaries and look for signals in normal relationships. The idea that we need consent for everything strikes me as ridiculous and uninforcable. Every couple in the world assumes one another's consent and makes sexual advances and expresses affection physically without announcing it at some point or another.
Realistically, there should be some point in any relationship where someone can write someone off as not a threat, right?
What are your thoughts? See where I'm coming from?
Call me a weirdo, but consent is very important to me. I am careful about touching anyone who may not be comfortable with such, ask whether I may kiss a date goodnight unless the signals are VERY clear, and would not kiss someone who was clearly uncomfortable with such. This generally serves me well.
This situation has power disparity, an individual who was openly uncomfortable, and plenty of people saying the kid should feel lucky. He wanted his first kiss to be within the context of a relationship. Instead, it was a celebrity photo-op.
If someone does not want to be kissed, kissing them is not okay simply because it makes them famous. Or for any other reason (with the possible exception of mouth-to-mouth resuscitation).
It's situational. There are only a few instances where implied consent applies. I don't know what occurred with Katy Perry, but it likely was in relation to some "normal" show business type event. Those situations have an expectation that was created years ago, but tradition doesn't mean it should continue.
I'm wondering if those in favor of this model practice this. You ask someone before you kiss them? Every time?
I don't see the harm here? What is everyone afraid of? If someone tried to kiss me and i didnt like it, id say stop, they'd apologize and it's over. If it goes beyond that, that's the crime isnt it?
I completly agree with you. alls fare in love and war.
On V-J Day in 1945 a soldier grabbed a random nurse and kissed her in his elation that the war was over. That picture marked a generation and was loved and admired by everyone and is firmly embedded in pop culture. If it happened today, the nurse would scream assault and the soldier would face a court martial and be dishonorably discharged. It sucks that in less than a century this country has completely lost any sense of innocence and everything is viewed through such a jaded lens. That boy on AI that was kissed by KP is now far more famous than he ever would have been otherwise...and tens of thousands of guys (and girls!) would trade places with him in a heartbeat. If he is really upset, he is taking himself way too seriously.
(((PS -- there is a HUGE difference between a kiss in public under rolling cameras and forcing yourself on them in private such as in an office or hotel room -- or threatening their job/career/livelihood/etc. Most people have the ability to discern between what is innocent/playful/public and what is nefarious/threatening/hidden)))
It was also a time when a man could rape a woman and get away with it and it was the woman who was shamed. A husband could physically and emotionally abuse his wife without fear of legal repercussion.
We cannot judge yesteryear by today's societal standards any more than we can switch today's standards for yesteryear. We have evolved and we have progressed.
The core message of the #MeToo movement is to equalize the treatment between the sexes. As with any movement in its infancy, it is a mess of extremes filled with righteous indignation, opportunists, and abuses by both sexes. It will be a long time before it normalizes.
In the meantime, a good rule of thumb would be..."If it is not right for one then it's not right for the other (male/female/other).
Hopefully this site will eventually require people to actually post photos of themselves and stop hiding behind cartoons..... I don't hold conversations with cartoons any more than I hold them with invisible sky daddies.
This is a really complicated matter, yet I tend to agree with the author.
I believe that small advances without asking are pretty much fine, provided that they stop at the first sign that they may be undesired.
And more daring advances... Well I think these call for a strong push or even a face slap... everyone has the right to defend his/her private space and body, including violently if so needed, but even then I would abstain from calling this "sexual assault". I keep this term for much more serious offences.
Yes. I wouldn't call it sexual assault but it's still not acceptable
Yes. I wouldn't call it sexual assault but it's still not acceptable
Yes. I wouldn't call it sexual assault but it's still not acceptable
Totally ludicrous, if that is sexual harassment then he has more issues than readers digest!
If Johnny Depp, or any other famous person came up to me and suddenly kissed/groped/whatever me, I would be pissed. I don't personally know this person, and would consider it sexual assault. Because this person was on a competiton show did not make it right.
When people are dating they usually don't just start kissing. There are other things that they "test the waters" to see if they're compatable. If everything seems right, then they usually offer a good-nite kiss. Very few people go from "hello" to making out.
I personally feel Katy Perry was out of line. But then again, I don't watch those shows because I feel they do things that they wouldn't normally do just to get the publicity.
I watched her on the show and thought her behavior was out there. I am not conservative in the least and sexually mature and I think she pushed boundaries too much.
It is sexual assault. Any time someone touches you inappropriately without consent it is. Sorry, if it wasn't Katy Perry and it was, say, a 15 year old girl being forcibly kissed by an ugly fat man would you shrug it off? No one should be TOUCHED without permission.
I had to stop myself from decking an overly friendly cop the other day because he came up behind me and hugged me. He didn't know I'm an abuse victim with PTSD and I could have hurt him. Im not saying it was sexual harassment but still, no one should be touched without consent.
Period.
Unwanted contact should not be pushed on the unwilling.
If he enjoyed being kissed...he wasn't harrassed.
You sound like my ex. He insisted that men can not be raped because "if they get it up, then they want it".
I've been sexually assaulted including being kissed against my will. Even if my body responded, that does NOT mean it was consensual. Let me repeat that..... even if my body responded, THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS CONSENSUAL. Let me give another example; a lot of women orgasm when raped. Does that mean they wanted it?
I stand by my statement.
With that said, I read an article on the incident which stated that the gentleman in question did not consider it assault. The problem that I have is how do you know that the person whom you randomly kiss will be appreciative of it without asking first? You can't just go around and kiss complete strangers.
Like many other animals, humans have mating rituals. We're currently in the midst of a process of outlawing them. Yes, predators like Weinstein, Spacey and Cosby need to be dealt with, but once the Internet gets a taste for blood, it wants more. Next thing you know, it's pointing the finger at someone who made a clumsy pass at someone while drunk, 40 years ago.
I don't know where the common sense path lies here. The truth is that nobody really does, and that's why nobody's even attempted to articulate it. The videos I've seen online all mock the men who dare to ask. "Well if you don't already know the answer, then you're just another Weinstein."
Some things are obviously off limits (grabbing sexually at someone's body, for example) but there are massive grey areas. Is it really harassment to ask someone on a date more than once? Is Katy Perry kissing this guy really a sexual violation?
Well put Nicole. I just hope things start to normalize 'somewhere' in the near future. I've not been in the dating scene for a couple of decades, but am getting ready to try it again post-divorce,... and i really have no idea what it is that is, and isn't a social norm any longer.
If Katy Perry kissed me, I'd be pissed. So yeah she was over the line.
YES! The guy could be asexual, demisexual, or even gay, so he could feel violated. NO sexual advances without permission, and the guy had just told Katy he was saving his first kiss for someone special, because of his religious beliefs.
@birdingnut Sorry but I have to disagree with you there, I don't consider a peck on the lips a kiss, it was no more sexual than kissing your mum goodnight, have you watched the clip? Add to that it was obviously preplanned.
@smoyle Believe me, if you'd tried to give me a "peck on the lips" you might have put yourself at risk of bodily harm. You have no right to decide what is "sexual" to others. White male privilege talking.
@birdingnut How can it be white male privilege when we're discussing the actions of a female?
@smoyle It doesn't matter. As a white male, you see a peck on the mouth as OK (it's NOT) and Katy Perry was out of line to kiss him after he'd asked her not to. It doesn't matter who does it to whom. I would have kneed a guy in the groin if he tried it, and said something very loudly rude to Katy if she even tried it, or worse.
@Blindbird
If Katy Perry, (or almost any woman,) wanted to kiss me, then SHE would be pissed. (In the English language sense of the word - not the American sense!)
Nope asking consent is not onerous. It is a small quick thing to do that makes sure everyones on the same page and WANTS to be on the same page. If asking for consent "kills the mood" that wasn't a good situation in the first place.
Too many people have turned into overly-sensitive morons.
Another reason I prefer to be alone.
Alone again, naturally.
Overly sensitive is just a pc way of saying "I want to grope or attack people without reprocussions"
@LadyAlyxandrea You made an incorrect assumption. I took exception.