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Who amongst us is the most keen to spread the agnostic message? And How? Is there an agnostic message?

Stake your claim, but there is no judging and no prize.

Mcflewster 7 Oct 2

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7

Sometimes on Saturday morning i get the urge to go around knocking on doors and ask if they believe in god. Then ask them why

How is that working for ya?

@creative51 Thus far I've been able to fight the urge.

@CommonHuman Yeah, and suits, bicycles and badge that read " Elder" are bloody expensive aren't they?
Plus there are at least 1,000 better things one can do on any Saturday morning aren't there.

@CommonHuman Urge to what?

@Mcflewster Are you really that dense you do not understand his comment?

@creative51 Yes

@Mcflewster Good luck then.

7

Had a christian friend out of the blue message me asking if I had heard the "good news".??.....since I fairly regularly post something to my face book from agnostic.com, that way, by "I approve this message" type of posting., I spread the world with my take on things.......anyway, I said that yes, I HAD heard that trump was being impeached, and that was okay by me......guess that was what she was talking about because I haven't heard back.....

You really find out just who your "friends" are when you approve of the orange anus being impeached don't you? LOL

@Redheadedgammy.....with the philisophy that every one should have the right to their stupidity....I have learned to not take things personally...

An excellent response. This open-ended question is intended to take you down the rabbit hole of evangelism.

Clever original reply !

@YaAtEeh well...its difficult to lead someone thats been down the road and back, and she grew up with me....should have know better.....must have been feeling a lack of "testifying" that day

@ @Mcflewster thank you

6

Just live your life by example.

Exactly what I was going to say. IMHO, that's the best way.

6

It's hard to spread the atheist or agnostic message, because the message is that there is no message.

It has been my impression is that the message of gnosticism is similar to that of the Buddhist nlightenment. That few people people are able to nature their awareness and remove obstacles to understand their connection to the world. It is difficult to build. institution around this idea, so the gnostic perspective its dismissed as heresy.

@YaAtEeh My favorite thing to tell the spiritual folk is that the universe just wants you to love it, but you just want to think its something its not.

I get a lot of confused responses.

6

There is no "message" to spread.
People are either going to embrace reason and logic, or they're not.

Personally, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who can attest to it,
I probably take a more antagonistic approach.
I don't suffer fools gladly, like ever. I think those who believe in non-existent entities are fools not to be suffered, period.

Could "Reason and Logic" not be a message in itself [with examples of solutions that are not possible with religion]?

@Mcflewster Yes, reason and logic would be a great message if the funnymentalists would listen to reason and logic. Like KKGator said, "I don't suffer fools gladly, like ever."

@Mcflewster The only thing I intend to do is lead by example. It's the only thing that makes sense to me now. To me, that consists of me just living my life, as I see fit.

If asked, I'll tear religion apart. I used to go out of my way to do that.
I don't anymore. It has proved to be a complete waste of my time.
I've had a few friends start questioning, and they've come to me for
my perspective. That's when I give them chapter and verse about
what a scam ALL religion is.

@KKGator I believe your idea to lead by example is the best way to show others who we are. I have found you can surprise people by simply being kind. Like a few months ago, a woman checking out at the grocery store didn't have enough money and started removing items, and I asked the cashier how much she was short. It was like 12 dollars and change. I said, I'll cover it. I'm not rich by any means but 12 bucks and change wasn't going to break me. The woman finished her transaction and I then got my stuff and noticed she was waiting by the exit door. She stated saying "Bless you, and bless god for sending you to help me". I simply told her, I didn't need a god to do something kind for someone else. She asked if I was christian, I said no, I'm an atheist. She was surprised to say the least. She thanked me again and walked off saying to her friend, I can't believe it, I just can't believe it. I hope I helped her to think and not judge others.

@Mcflewster It is my view that logic and reason provide an avenue to share understanding. Beliefs are either held or compelled. As for myself, I focus on being aware of my beliefs, but not attempt to compel others to hold those same beliefs. For subjects that lend themselves to logic and reason, then I proceed, if invited. I believe it is a person's lifelong project to bring their beliefs and their world together for themselves.

@Redheadedgammy I KNEW I liked you!!!! 😉

I also understand exactly the point you made. I can't tell you how many times I've been told, "..but you're so NICE! How can YOU be an atheist?"

Atheists and agnostics have been so demonized (I know, pun again. 2nd time today.), and maligned.
People are usually so surprised to learn that atheists and agnostics are more like "christians" are SUPPOSED to be than most christians are.

@KKGator Ditto KKGator. I've learned so much from your comments and posts, and find myself looking for posts by you and a few other people that speak truth to power. I too have had the comment "but you're so nice, how can you be an atheist?" thrown at me. One person even said "but you seem more like a good christian." I laughed and said, maybe more christians need to act more like an atheist. I just got a smile back. Lol

@YaAtEeh I am not advocating compulsion.

@KKGator Please keep trying to talk to other religions , but doing it nicely(?)

@Redheadedgammy But it would be a real prize if you succeeded in getting them to listen by whatever means.

@Mcflewster No.

@KKGator Agreed to disagree.

4

Spreading the agnostic "message" is just as bad as spreading "the word of the lord". Let people make up their own minds. If I'm asked, then I'll explain why I believe what I believe. It's not my job to preach ANYTHING.

Exactly! I loathe the idea of missionaries of ANY belief (or non-belief).

@Holysocks Who said anything about preaching. There are lots of ways of getting message out.

4

Not I (apart from my being an atheist). I am keen to advocate for separation of church and state but have no need to control what others believe in privately.

g

You seem a very tolerant person but why should we tolerate religion when we do think it does harm.

4

Spread what message, that people should use their brain to think for themselves instead of being sheeps and parrots who follows and repeat some book that if someone took the time to read would figure out that it is nonsense. Agonostics and atheists don't go around knocking on people's doors trying to convert them. If someone cannot come to this enlightenment by himself or herself, then no one can make them use their brain to figure things out.

Agree but there must be quicker methods that do not involve knocking on doors and yet are still acceptable to us and involve no pressure.

@Mcflewster No one had to tell me about being agnostic or atheist. This is what differentiate us from the religious sheeple. One cannot be converted to agnotism or atheism. It's self awareness. If someone cannot question the belief in a supernatural unseen deity, and research, and learn, and come up with a logical conclusion by himself or herself, than no message will resonate with them.

@noworry28 "Sheeple" LMAO! Made my day.

4

Keen to spread the message? What are you, Christian?

That is a good question but I am at leasts agnostic as you are. If we are to eliminate religion we need to steal some of the best techniques FROM the religions. After all proselytising is only the same as salesmanship.

@Mcflewster Then that makes you no better than them. You shouldn't be trying to convert people... Only get them to think for themselves! That is not a sales process!

@RiverRick Sorry but any change needs "selling" even if it involves no money. That's just the way we are. Religious people are NOT going to accept logic and reason.

3

I think everybody should come out whenever possible. I hate to have to listen religious people voicing their opinion as if it the only right one. Wish religious privileges would end and everybody would be treated equally.

Oh, I don't hide a thing about my non- belief. I just don't Ferrell the meted to harp on it like christians do.

3

I judge plenty and I don't spread anything. 😑😅

3

I do not think you are agnostic or an atheist. I think you are a christian just looking for a new way to preach.

Glad you are out witch hunting(?) You could not be more wrong. Open to other testing.

@Mcflewster No I am describing your behavior. Your too full of yourself to see it.

@creative51 Please test me with a disconnected issue.

@creative51 Still evading proving what you are saying is true. If you really do not want to test me THEN please see my LINKED IN Page for my credentials.

@Mcflewster Sit down, take a deep breath and relax.

@creative51 That is exactly what I am doing thanks. I do not need you advice. Help would be good would it not?

3

My only message all along has been "don't tell me what to believe".... Other than that, life goes on.

I would go further and say " I am not going to do anything or believe anything I am told [policepersons excepted] unless I can think it through with reason and/or logic.

@Mcflewster Well it's not my mission in life to explain myself to everyone as of why I do what I do.

@IamNobody Fair enough. I like to think that you occasionally do.

@Mcflewster Of course, we all do. I try not to though, which by your implied logic, this response must be the exception to the rule.

3

Agnostic message is the same as the Christian message: They will know us by our non-judgmental acceptance, our love and our compassion. Except that we really mean that shit. Its not a mask we wear to the masquerade party that is Christianity.

This is good. We are getting somewhere. Have you any stories about its successful use?

@Mcflewster Yes. As an agnostic, I have had numerous (more than I can count) encounters where I embraced and accepted those whom I would have simply just prayed for as a Christian, but would have never allowed for a true enriching friendship. The post Christian embracing has brought me so much fulfillment and joy. That is my successful use of my agnostic message.

@Truthseeker1968 It gets even better.

@Mcflewster Exactly. As a decades old agnostic I can attest that that feeling never dies and continues to grow. Its tragic how much time I wish I had back that I afforded to my Christian walk.

That is NOT the "christian message" I've always gotten.
More like, they will know us by our stubborn and irrational refusal to accept ANYTHING that runs counter to our fictional "holy" book, and our history of persecuting (including murder) anyone who we feel isn't as good as we are.
There is NO "love" in the christian message. None. Just blind obedience.

@KKGator Thus "Except that we really mean that shit. Its not a mask we wear to the masquerade party that is Christianity."

@Truthseeker1968 Most "christians", aren't.
If Jesus had been real, and met any of these assholes, he'd have made sure they'd been smote.

3

I am not agnostic but I will give you one on atheism...

"Live a life of reason and reality, not of ignorance and myth."

These are very good but I would prefer never to mention god. I was in a Humanist group that used " Faith in Humanity" as a strap-line.

@Mcflewster

"Focus on being a good human being. Focus on humanity."

@St-Sinner ...or better human being ?? .. we can all improve.

@Mcflewster

No, most think they are good human beings but don't know they are not. There is a lot of work to be just a good, kind, compassionate, emphatic, sharing, free thinking, unbiased human being.

Being better is an advanced stage. It can apply to people like Dalai Llama who has spent his life in spreading the message of peace and meditation.

@St-Sinner Maybe these two paragraphs only apply to some people in America but I am not sure about that or whether it applies in the UK also.

@Mcflewster

It should apply to grown up human beings. I thought the UK is more progressive and less religious than the US.

3

There’s no agnostic message. it isn’t a set of beliefs or group, though nonreligious people may find community with each other like this. i don’t have an atheist message to spread; i’m perfectly happy to live and let live as long as those people aren’t pushing their beliefs on others, teaching their children dangerous and harmful things, or using convincing others to hurt themselves in some way. but i don’t care if someone simply believes in a god. it’s their business.

2

This is my agnostic message:

Subtel!

2

Just last Saturday morning, two True Believers rang my doorbell. I took just a few minutes to deliver my message:

"It's all make-believe. Everything in those scripture books you're carrying was made up by somebody as their idea of what 'god' might be. Not a word--not a SINGLE word in those scriptures was written by 'god.' Instead, every word was written by men, mostly a bunch of old, white-haired guys in Rome back in 400 A.D. So thank you, but no thank you, ladies. Have a nice day."

This is good. Could it have been briefer?

@Mcflewster Oh yes indeed. I could have wordlessly pointed to the No Soliciting sign in 2-inch letters beside my door. It just all depends on how "charitable" I'm feeling at the time. Last year I invited a couple of young Mormon boys in and spent some time telling them about Zen meditation.

2

Not me, contrary to what believers do, I don't proselytize. I don't use labels either, so as a non-believer I will vigorously defend my POV only if challenged, otherwise I live and let live.

"live and let live" is good. Living in ignorance is bad.

@Mcflewster of course, but it's not up to me to teach people who won't listen. Useless waste of time to accomlish zilch.

@Mofo1953 And you have tried how many times? Genuine seeking info only.

@Mcflewster several times when directly confronted, but they do not listen to reason or open their eyes to evidence. It is a waste of time and an exercise in futility.

@Mofo1953 We can all do some little thing if only to brag how less worried we have been.

@Mcflewster Brag? Whom to?

@Mofo1953 Studies have shown that religious people live longer because they are more sure of their beliefs. Brag to anyone.

@Mcflewster i saw the Ohio state study, you are reporting falsely that the reason is because they are more sure of their beliefs, that is not what the study says. The study says that it is tied to less drinking, more socializing and volunteering. And it is only 4 years difference, coming from the analysis of 1000 obituaries. But I would say that sampling is flawed. Many obituaries are embellished by the family whom have been known to declare religious belief to atheists, I do not trust the method of data gathering because obituaries are not necessarily true and thus invalid to any statistician.

@Mofo1953 I am not qualified to analyse any of the reasons but there seems to be multiple studies, but you obviously understand the difficulties of interpretation

2

“Who amongst us is the most keen to spread the agnostic message? And How? Is there an agnostic message?”
I suppose the most keen to spread the message of agnosticism and atheism are those who are making money from their lectures, debates, books, magazines, et al.
Personally I am keen for more agnostics and semi-nonbelievers to get on the same page in so far as “belief" is concerned.
Education and opposition are the better means to get the message across; the Internet is helping to get the word out.
For me the message is that the supernatural realm does not exist, therefore Gods do not exist and all religions are delusional. The universe is 100% natural, and spirits and the spirit world were created in the minds of early humans and we have been stuck with that delusion ever since. GROG

GROG Level 6 Oct 2, 2019

Would dispute your second paragraph but the rest is very good.

2

If you have not noticed, there is a very wide range of views of agnostic - atheistism. So there is no "message" other than follow your open inquiring mind.

There has to/could be a core message. i.e. other than 'open mind' as many christians would say they have an open inquiring mind.

@Mcflewster It sounds like you are over thinking this.

@creative51 I do not understand this phrase "you are over thinking this".

2

Everybody is default agnostic. Even devout religious people say "I believe, but I don't know." Lmao. I go "Same here - but I also don't believe."

See? Everyone's already agnostic, but we guess-pick a side.

So no proselytizing required.

Do you not mean "Everyone is born an agnostic"?. There are some religious people who are half way towards us.

1

I'm an evangelistic atheist. A troublemaker. I don't start the conversations, but when someone opens that door I walk right in. I don't throw turds into any punchbowls, but I point them out to those who are drinking.

I want my friends and others to feel the same relief and sense of freedom that I did when I finally accepted the truth that there is no deity watching over us.

I would prefer to think that you are an information giver and that any trouble is due to the person you encountered.

1

I do not advertise my unbelief, and expect believers to act similarly. For a believer to even acknowledge that unbelief exists opens the door to their wasted lives.

They burned us , when they could...lest we forget.

I would have thought it was obvious that we need to support religionists through any change that we propose.

1

I have been an Atheist, NOT an Agnostic though, since about 8 years of age and I regularly discuss my Atheism with anyone who wants to hear it.

Glad you are so sure.

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