So this is a poll... do atheists believe in capital in capital punishment?
Before we even talk about capital punishment, can we get false convictions below 10% please?
can't answer for others, but I am opposed to capital punishment. Why not frontal lobotomy instead with a stretch in the coal mines?
Remind me never to piss you off! LOL
Capital punishment (lets get real and not sugar coated by calling it what it really is) the death penalty has never been an reducing homicide. It also has a long history of being used unevenly. This is a very brief summery of why I don't approve of the death penalty.
The Abrahamic religions do seem to encourage the death penalty because it has a very punitive way of dealing with what they would consider to be its transgressions. So I wouldn't be surpised if athiest are less inclined to subscribe to the death penalty
While it is true that the death penalty has never proven to be a deterrent in general cases, neither has incarceration. But in the specific cases, no matter what the penalty, someone who is dead, for example, can't go out and commit another murder. Someone in prison for burglary isn't committing more burglaries during that time.
The penal system is not rehabilitative by nature. The individual has to want to change. I don't agree with the death penalty in general because it denies the possibility for someone who has committed murder to change their character. I believe in redemption through one's own personal choices and actions. But in certain cases, I believe the heinous nature of the crime calls for the death of the criminal.
Take Charles Manson, for example. He has regular parole hearings, at which he's routinely denied; he's never going to be free. And yet, women write him love letters in prison. He's a celebrity because he's a mass murderer. We, as a society, would be better off with him dead.
No modern civilized society would impose capital punishment.
Notwithstanding, it should be the right of any inmate to demand death in lieu of serving the balance of his / her sentence. Death would be by nitrogen asphyxiation: simple, effective and painless.
We might be modern, but we are far from civilized.
I am opposed to the death penalty. Simply put, I don't think it is right to kill someone, and certainly not out of anger. I would like to think that thinking humans have evolved beyond that. Society needs to be protected from dangerous people. We have incarceration for that.
And we sure as heck need to take it off the table until we get the criminal justice system straightened out. You can watch The Innocent Man: Murder and Injustice in a Small Town ... for just one example of miscarried justice. One guy was 5 days away from execution when his lawyers were finally able to get him exonerated. The town had a history of locking the wrong people up.
I named my daughter Darrow for America's Greatest lawyer who NEVER LOST A CLIENT TO THE HANGMAN
NO...but not because I’m an atheist, but because I am a human being and don’t believe the State should be in the business of killing its citizens. Progressive countries do not have capital punishment, if later it’s found that there has been a miscarriage of justice and the convicted person was not guilty of the crime, then they can be released. This has happened innumerable times in Britain, but if they had been hanged instead of serving life sentences, they would have been killed unjustly, As long as there’s a chance of a miscarriage of justice there should never be capital punishment.
When Tim McVeigh was murdered in Indiana federal prison for his Oklahoma City bombing of children and government workers, the identity of all his killer comrades died with him....I think the worst killers and rapist priests should be ordered into medical research and some organ transplants like kidney lung bone marrow and blood transfusions AND NEVER ALLOWED TO SMOKE & dope in prison
Sticky question, in some cases yes the people who are really guilty( the one sticking point, we should never take a chance on killing an innocent person) . What some don't realize is that sociopathic killers are a danger to other inmates and staff, they don't deserve to be murdered either. I worked in the medical department in a prison some of the killers do deserve it, no remorse and would do it again without thought. The problem is that the current criminal justice system is dependent on victory not justice , innocent people are convicted. And in the cases of crimes of passion they won't repeat it .
My late partner was a lifelong atheist and she felt that even serial rapist should be put to death. I believe, yes, in certain cases it should be used.
@JackPedigo But, even though some deserve it, as long as there is a death penalty, innocent people will be put to death. That is why I think it should be abolished; and those who are worthy of it need to be kept away from the general prison population.
And something people forget they have been known to escape prison and will kill again
@Joanne So the problem is less about the guilty being executed but the innocent getting executed? With today's technology fewer innocent should be locked up. Yes, it is said real capital punishment does and should cost a lot to make sure the person deserves it. My issue is about people who commit extreme crimes (like genocide or mass murder). The shooter at the concert several years ago is a prime candidate.
@JackPedigo yup good one
@JackPedigo There is no argument that some do not deserve to keep breathing. And, yes, my main argument against it is-- as long as there is a death penalty innocent people will be put to death--no matter how advanced we are, or become; and it is not meted out without prejudice. If we can guarantee non-prejudiced justice, and that no innocent person will ever be put to death, then I would have no reason to object to it in certain circumstances.
@Joanne I think your main differences concern the provability of guilt. There are cases that are without a doubt and those are the ones we need to deal with.
I am not a fan of capital punishment but you do bring up a good point, in addition to possibly killing an innocent person (the death penalty candidate), other prisoners need protection as well. Here in the US there seems to be an attitude that inmates have no right to protection from crimes.
I think solitary confinement would be a cruel and unusual punishment, but maybe not for a psychopath. Perhaps they can be separated from the rest of the prison population.
@JackPedigo : Yes, there are those cases where there is no shadow of a doubt about their guilt. But, my argument is that as long as there is a death penalty innocent people will be put to death. The best way to avoid that is to just not have it. If it can be guaranteed 100% that no innocent person will ever be put to death, and it is handed out without prejudice, then I will have no argument against it.
@Joanne So what happens when a guilty person escapes or is pardoned and injures or kills another? There is an adage that it is better that 10 guilty people go free than one innocent person is jailed. It's called Blackstone's ratio [en.wikipedia.org] So if one of the ten kills someone how is it better?
@JackPedigo : Well, anyone who is guilty of a crime worthy of the death penalty should NEVER be pardoned or set free; and, who is to say that the person cannot escape before they are put to death and kill another person?
Also, there is a difference between someone escaping and murdering a person and an innocent person being put to death by the government--especially if foul play is involved on the part of the police, or prosecutors etc.
There is no perfect way to prevent murders and the death penalty has shown to not be a deterrent. But, we can prevent people from being put to death for crimes they did not commit.
I'm opposed to capital punishment (CP) for two principal reasons, neither of which have anything to do with religion or lack of religion.
Even if one thinks there are supremely heinous crimes for which CP is morally justified, that's not the problem. The problem is the marginal, borderline cases. Could we ever agree on where to draw the line? Obviously not. So there will be some crimes where some juries would say CP, but other juries would say no. Should we kill people randomly, depending on which jury they get, like rolling dice? Obviously not.
Despite over 100 years of practice, we still cannot come up with a fair system for administering CP. Black people find their way to death row at a much greater rates than whites. What we currently have is an unfair, racist system. Will we ever be able to come up with a fair system, administered by human beings, which is free from the influence of politics, religion, racism, and all the other biases people bring to the table? Obviously not.
Therefore, get rid of CP.
Back to square one: We Atheists are not believers. Your false leading question has no answer. Some Atheists sit on juries and vote for lethal injection upon convicted killers. Some Atheists vote for politicians who want death penalties in 11 states without death penalties. Iowa is a life in prison state since 1960 the death by hanging law repealed by Atheist Senator John Ely.....there are wide varieties of Atheists regarding the root of your Australian question here inside USA....please don't teach children Atheists are adjectives and believers....we Atheists are free of theism....alleged gawds are impossible concepts such as division by zero or alleged vaginal virgin birthing an alleged baby gawd in a dirty donkey stable by a fake back dated calendar where real King Herod died 4 bce making the idiotic bible story 100% fiction
I am against it. Here is the best argument that I heard. If you lived in someplace like Rwanda that suffered massive genocide. With little or no resources to deal with a large prison population. Then it might be the only way to go. But we do not live in a place like that and we do not need it.
Here is what I can tell you about capital punishment. If someone is a killer and you kill them, they will never kill anyone else again.
How often do they get it wrong? If you no without a doubt I have no real problem, but that is not how it works all too often. Since 1973 until 2014 the Innocence Project has helped 144 on death row get there convictions overturned. Those are just the ones DNA was still available. That is the reason to eliminate the death penalty.
But then you are a killer too.
Why would being an atheist determine whether or not one was or was not in favor of capital punishment? Even if every atheist on this site responds (and that won't happen) you will still be dealing with too small a sample to determine the general view of atheists. But it's a bit like asking whether atheists prefer blue or purple. There is no atheist rule book.
For the record I am against the death penalty. There is no connection between my views in that regard, as an individual, and my not believing there are any gods.
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@attila the point of the label is the same as the point of any other such noun. There is a word for a person who believes in no gods. How convenient! Like any other label it can be applied accurately or inaccurately, used well or misused. Why do you think it is pointless to have such a word unless it can be misused by making baseless generalizations about the people to whom it applies?
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@attila the last bastion of someone with no real answer: flinging insults. you have nothing to say, so you say that instead. i have a life (knickers, on the other hand, i do not have, twisted or otherwise). you only want responses that agree with you? this ain't the place, babe.
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@attila "get a life" is not intended as an insult? characteriizng what i am or am not able to grasp is not an insult? if you insult me, i will NEVER know about it, because you'll be blocked in a moment. i have no time for fools.
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p.s. i know you won't see this, but for those who do: your use of the word "honey" in this context is just another sign that you're a creep. yeah, that's an insult.
We don't have it here (Canada) but they do in the US, and under their legal system it doesn't really seem to work all that well. Those who are condemned to death have so many avenues of appeal open to them that they are usually incarcerated for years before execution and sometimes are not executed ever. It has been pointed out that the cost in dollars, to keep someone on death row for the amount of time necessary for that person to exhaust all of their appeals, is often more than it would have been to keep them locked up for life in regular jail. The idea of revenge in the justice system is abhorrent to me, and I think punishment is usually counterproductive. On a per capita basis the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and yet they also have one of the highest rates of violent crime. Punishment doesn't seem to be working all that well for them. For me the answer is NO.
I can't speak for others, but I do not support capital punishment.
It actually costs the state more to put someone to death than it does to keep them in prison for life. For that reason, I oppose it. We don't even need to decide the philosophical question of whether or not is is right to put someone to death.
[amnestyusa.org].
So you are saying that saving money is more important than doing the right thing (whatever it may be)?
Is that thinking applicable to issues other than capital punishment?
@itsmedammit Not more important. Not necessary to debate.
Why would an "Atheist", or anybody else shoved into a category, have consistent outlooks on Anything? Seems like a pretty silly question! And disrespectful as well!
@attila Then pose the question that way, not in such a confrontational disrespetful manner! Oh, and IMO the death penalty is a good thing! Do you know how many get out on "good behavior", or whatever, and commit the same or more horrendous crimes against more innocent victims. Do you know Charles Manson was up for parole every year for decades?
@attila Generalizations are and always have been, universally recognized as being patronizing & disrespectful of actual People. You know this, so do not try hiding behind that "I'm just asking a question" claptrap! You think we haven't seen that before??? Try a simple question, like "what are your views on....?"
@AnneWimsey But Manson never got out, nor would he.
And there is always the option for life without parole.
@itsmedammit "but Manson ....never...would get out"... ooookkkkaaayyyyyyy, even prison overcrowding has allowed terrible "humans" to walk free! .Try Googling "released murderers who killed again" & then have a relaxing day!
I doubt there's a correlation, any more than between religious people who supposedly believe in the "right to life" and at the same time, often support and push for execution.
Personally, I don't, except in the most clear-cut and egregious cases- say, a school shooting or serial killer in which there is no doubt whatsoever that this, this here, this right here is the guy who did it. (And it is overwhelmingly males who commit crimes of this nature.)
I supported the death penalty for those involved in planning the 9/11 attacks as well, to the extent we could prove who were the masterminds, not simply messengers or cogs in the machinery. Simply belonging to Al-Qaeda during 2001 was not sufficient to be tortured to death in some shithole country that extradited people for us.
This is a question. It's not a poll, but you could have made it one.
Ethically, I oppose the death penalty. It's not effective as a deterent and the "biblical" eye-for-an-eye mentality is about as morally repulsive as the rest of the bible. In a civilized society the state should rehabilitate criminals or keep them segregated from society to protect the populace, but it's not within the mandates to punish human beings. Capital Punishment is simply state sanctioned revenge. It's not about justice, but appeasing our barbaric nature.
I admit that there are many cases where I would like to see criminals suffer for their crimes, particularly in heinous crimes against children, but that desire isn't based on logic or justice. It's simply a base craving for vengeance.
I know people will argue that murderers can be paroled, but wrongly convicted murderers have been released as well, and parole isn't granted unless it's approved by a review board. Maybe we should look at those standards and create the option for sentences of life without parole in every state.
One case I remember was in the Central Park jogger assault. There a rich, white jackass campaigned for the death penalty for five black teens who were convicted of rape and attempted murder after a woman was viciously attacked in Central Park in New York City. Those kids spent eighteen years in prison before they were exhonorated by DNA evidence and a confession by the actual rapist.
Had they been sentenced to death, there's a good chance that at least some of their executions would have been carried out before their innocence was revealed.
Same for me. I am sure there have been innocent people killed at the hands of the state.
And that stupid jack ass never bothered to apologize.