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‘Belief’ definition

I surmise that one cannot think about beliefs in the singular as if they were not connected. I would prefer to talk about “ A belief system ” 

But to start at a single sentence point. A suggestion would be

A Belief is a single statement of a conclusion or fact (i.e is reproducible from nothing) that is preparation for connecting other belief statements which depend upon the veracity of the original e.g God leads to Angel which leads to them flying which leads to them magically solving problems.

So you build a belief system with one central core and many supporting structures which if removed would collapse the whole structure.
A belief in God in not reproducible from nothing " god the father had to have a father if it is what we believe a father does.

Mcflewster 8 Feb 24

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fwiw there is no judgement for "beliefs" in the Bible, but only for works i guess. The Bible deems "beliefs" functionally irrrelevant, as they are invariably about the past or the future, yeh? Now i guess most instances of have faith have been tunred into "believe" by scribes, to help make the false case for "beliefs," agreeing with your premise i guess iow


WHOA!! I think you may have tripped up in your own semantics. In paragraph #3 you write: "A belief is a single statement of a conclusion OR FACT". If it is a FACT, then you KNOW it. There is no need for belief, if it fits the definition of a fact. If you then expand your thesis on an error, your house of cards falls.

Yes, but which do we attack/reinforce first.... belief or FACT?

One could [some do] say that "It is a statement of fact that Jesus is dead, but I believe him still alive". Is that just semantics or plain confusion. Unfortunately religionists have TWO ways of knowing,. One is science and the other is magical.


A belief system could also be called an ideology. If is thought of a fixed or unchanging set of beliefs, it could be called a dogma.

This is good.


This belief system is why many theist of the abrahamic religions have to believe in the creation story, the flood and exodist. Aknowledging that these things did not happen(which is proven by science) would undermine their whole belief system. It did crush it for me for good.

So how do we get it to crush religionists for good? My only answer is to do more science but this is not popular with religionists or with a big chunk of members on this site. Impossible task?

@Mcflewster The internet is the biggest source of information now. The trick is figuring out how to get the proper information to the right people in a way that they can accept it. This is why my YouTube channel is actually geared towards fundamentalist. I was one so I know what approach would work for me.

@DavidLaDeau Good tactical talk!

@Mcflewster Thank You! I do pay much attention to what you say and your thoughts. So you may have been an influence!

You cannot use "science " <the study of nature > to disprove super nature or supernatural. This doesn't mean that a supernatural account is true. But, again, you cannot logically use the study of nature and its laws to claim that an "all-powerful " is not "actually " all powerful because natural science has laws that "all-power" cannot violate.

Conclusion, If something be "all-powerful" and you are only of limited power in nature then you cannot logically disprove something that would have power over nature in such a manner of ... let's say all-power could by its all-powerfulness set carbon dating so that when scientists test for carbon dating the scientists would get the carbon date that the all-powerful wanted the scientists to get.

This does not prove all-powerful exist, it does not prove all-power in fact manipulated natural things to give certain appearances when studied by "natural power" scientific methods.

Again, logically, you cannot say less power scientific correctness is absolutely correct when by definition of all-powerful, the all-powerful by definition could manipulate nature to give it what ever apparence the all-power would all powerlfuly want less-than-all-powerful science to see.


Buwahahahahaaaaaa!, what? I think this could be greatly improved by removing every third word & re-arranging a bit....perhaps every third sentence too....just a thought!

I admit I am just playing round with words . Think what it was like for early men and women who had no chance of proving that god does not exist , no chance of being skeptical , their only chance was to follow their (deluded) leader be it warrior or king. BTW That is a great new word........................... ...Buwahahahahaaaaaa!

@Mcflewster oh I cannot take has been around.


The thing about have to try to accept a whole other definition of words. "He lives". what definition?......"he made man in his own image"......does this mean god was/is in human form when he created everything?......words can mean nothing, or anything...

Very true , except that you do have a choice.

@Mcflewster always


I enjoy comparing / contrasting religion with mathematics. We begin with basic, simple concepts and build upon them. Addition, subtraction, multiplication and division form the building blocks for our learning. Before high school we learn basic geometry and algebra, and in high school we are taught (if we are fortunate) trigonometry and Calculus. And that is but a simple foundation.

Religious belief is similar in that it builds a lattice work, or superstructure, of belief upon basic articles (or principles) or faith. Mathematics is universal--it crosses religious, cultural and ethnic boundaries in which it is tested and found to be true. Can the same be said for religion?

In the end, it is my contention that belief is not a choice. I cannot choose to believe in something that my reason and intellect reject. Just as I cannot accept that the world is flat, I cannot believe in a supreme being as described to me by ancient books or others whose knowledge on the topic is, in all fairness, no greater than mine.

A good analysis

@Leontion Yup, even the atheist may be covered by an insurance policy that includes damages resulting from 'acts of God!' 😉

@Leontion "God's ways are mysterious and humans can't understand it"
The ultimate 'get out' clause.

@Leontion "the whole point of faith, for people who value it, is the absence of factual support and even belief in the face of contradiction by evidence" GOOD POINT

"absence of factual support" sad


Learn to pronounce

  1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Learn to pronounce

  1. a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.
    "the state railroad system"
  2. a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done; an organized scheme or method.

There are those that believe that widows and orphans exist. Biblical religion is defined as helping those that know it is true that widows and orphans exist.

Religion... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

Biblical belief system is about having things working together to help widows and orphans in need while avoiding worldly corruption.

Word Level 8 Feb 24, 2020

I would say that Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness beliefs, Catholic beliefs or conservative beliefs are belief structures. I see your point but really don't understand why you raised it.

"God the father had to have a father if it is what we believe a father does."

Father's have children. All father's that we know of had fathers but that is not the definition of a father. A Christian will say that the "father" is immortal and eternal making the point mute. I would say they're full of shit but never-the-less your rebuttal doesn't refute their argument.

gearl Level 8 Feb 24, 2020

Indeed. I had no clue what the definition of a father was until my daughter and son showed me.

I wanted to show the interdependence of beliefs. Take God away and Poof away goes angels ... although some people cling on to Angels without God. Somehow I don't think independent angels will last for ever except in a few deluded pockets


God leads to Angel which leads to them flying which leads to magically solving problems. WTF? I don't get it.


So now you want to become an alternative to Webster or the Encyclopaedia Britannica? If I wanted to see the definition of "belief" I'd most certainly wouldn't ask you, we now have google for it.

@Mofo 1953 I have no intentions of stopping you using Webster OR stopping you googling.

@maturin1919 says someone who didn't even post, spare me of your ass kissing attitude.

@Mcflewster you wouldn't he able to, so...

@maturin1919 many have tried and failed miserably.

@JohnnyQB just speaking clearly and directly, some people can't take that, to which I say boo fucking hoo!

@maturin1919 if I'm a dick, then put it in your mouth and suck it you busy body cunt!

@maturin1919 you like to threaten with violence while not posting any photos, who is hiding you little coward bitch, thank your lucky stars you're in PA and keep bullying, it's well known that bullies are fucking cowardly bitches, so fuck off you incognito pussy!

@maturin1919 then who wrote this you fucking moron? "absent a keyboard, this guy would be getting knocked the fuck out regularly" show your face like a real man you twat! Otherwise go hide behind your profile you whiny little bitch!

@maturin1919 typical of busy bodies, throw stone and hide the hand. Put up a real photo you pussy, why don't you address that which you conveniently always forget, huh? I know why? Because you're the coward who projects his cowardice to all except to the real cunt, you!; a fucking whiny little bitch of a person, a pussy, put up or shut the fuck up, bitch! Now fuck off, wasting my time with candy ass, namby pamby, yellow bellied bitches stops now.

@maturin1919 coward, my bio shows who I am you are just a coward who hides behind avatars. Fuck off already you pussy.

@maturin1919 Who ?

@maturin1919 - you sully this forum. There is no reason for your aggressive remarks.

@maturin1919 - your words and grammar show a decent command of the language, but what and how you say things shows great immaturity and/or some deep seated psychological problems. Why else would you bring troglodyte pub-brawling language to a philosophical discussion?!! A philosophical discussion man!! Do you see how weird and inappropriate your behaviour is??!

@maturin1919 talk to me when you identify yourself. Be a man and don't hide behind avatars. Oh, you're proving to be a little baby bitch to all by going redherring, nyah nyah nyah. Address the real issue, you hide, you are a fucking whiny little bitch. Go fuck yourself with your other spiritualist religion defenders.


The question is: What do we base our beliefs on? Belief without evidence is called faith, or blind faith. I prefer to base my beliefs on facts, evidence, logic and science. That way, I am more in touch with nature and the real, existing universe. Not mythology and fairy tales.

To quote Carl Sagan, "I don't want to believe, I want to know".

@jlynn37 This is a good quote from Sagan but presumably you would not want to say " I believe I am an agnostic" . I just do not like being called a "None believer" or even a "None", simply because it is used as a put-down phrase and I do have beliefs , mostly in Humans and their potential.

@Mcflewster Be called a humanist.

@Atheist3 Thanks for your endorsement. Any chance of you using it???

@Mcflewster 100%! I'm a humanist first.

@Atheist3 Are you here for the same reason as me then? Whatever you are called?

@Mcflewster lol no.

@Atheist3 How do you know what my reasons are?

@Mcflewster I can only go by what you've stated about yourself, which based upon the scant evidence that you've given tells me that you should express yourself more fully.


Belief: a position accepted as being true, but in the absence any supporting evidence.

Belief system: a set of beliefs on a set of related matters.

A belief system need not have a core concept as it can be built around an approach to explaining the natural world. Think of the Greek and Roman gods, along with Buddhism and Daoism.

@maturin1919 I like your analysis. My own view is that the word "belief" is ambiguous, and that people have a habit of using words imprecisely.

@maturin1919 Fine - but HOW do they write what they do?? Perhaps with the help of too many religionists?

@Mcflewster Are you referring to @maturin1919's comment about a dictionary?

@maturin1919 And dictionaries often differ in what the offer for any given word.

@maturin1919 The differ sufficiently for this pedant to notice.

@maturin1919 I find such differences to be highly significant.

@maturin1919 I acknowledge your position.

"explaining the natural world." is a core belief of naturalists.

@maturin1919 The first dictionaries were written by monks?


Blah, blah, blah. Too hard to even think about that is my belief.

I accept your choice. I just don't want to accept what the Bible, philosophers or Dictionaries say as part of my rebelious nature. I accept that not everyone will accept what I say but my intention is to throw more light on how people use the words as religionists do. They have hi-jacked so many words

"Blah, blah, blah?" Sounds almost like Charlie Brown's teacher: "Wah waaah wah wah waaaah wah waah..."

@p-nullifidian Thanks I had not made that link but that is why children like people who ridicule their teacher. I am well used to it, but still managed to educate as Charlie Brown does.

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