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So my oldest told my wife that he doesn't want anything to do with us for a while. He told her that it was more me than her but that we had caused him damage and he needed time. He recently moved in with his boyfriend and he told my wife that now that he sees what a loving homelife is like he realizes how much damage we did to him. My wife and I used to fight constantly and despite repeatedly making commitments to not fight in front of the kids it did spill over all the time. Now things are wonderful but they used to be horrible with us. We stayed together for the kids- and I don't mean for emotional reasons. Had we split it would have meant we were in poverty- something I grew up with and knew well which my oldest has never experienced. And our middle child is special needs and we probably would have found it impossible to pay for his therapy. So we stuck together and fought all the time and my oldest saw a lot of it. And I would feel trapped and often depression would overwhelm me and after my oldest turned 18 I often found myself trying to reach out to him as a friend and a couple of times I started to tell him how desperate I felt, trapped and alone and I that sometimes I felt like killing myself but would never do that to my kids. I know it was incredibly wrong but when I reached those darkest points they would consume me. He would always shut me down saying he didn't want to hear that from his dad and I would stop, although perhaps twice I became angry at the rejection and wanted to keep going. But he would just leave if I went on. I know it was hard on him and I regret it more than anything. But now that seems to be all he remembers and thinks about. Actually there were probably more good times than bad and I would remind him but he won't talk to me. I know that as his father he doesn't really see me as a human being with his own baggage and issues. And honestly I strove to be a good dad with him- I tried to share his interests, spent lots of time with him and always listened. Everyone who knew us thought I was a wonderful father and I took great pride in it. I know that I was part wonderful and part terrible, probably like most dads. And I know that he is 19 and won't see us as actual humans until he is much older. I think I was in my 30s before I realized that about my parents. But it hurts. And my wife is devastated. The hardest part is we know he is right, although he's failing to see the alternative. Part of it is he never experienced any other real hardships so to him it's the worst thing that ever happened. Which is so different than my childhood- my parents also fought constantly but we also lived in poverty. And where I grew up in the 80s making the weaker boys cry was a sport. And after I came out as an atheist I got beat up and bullied. Sometimes I think we did him a major disservice in being so protective. He never learned that you get back up when you fall because we never let him fall.
Of course he's right in his complaints, but I think he's doing himself more harm by seeing the narrative of his life as one of a victim.

towkneed 7 Nov 15
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19 comments

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1

So this guy PM'd me after he didn't like my comments below and passive-aggressively offered therapy. Then he read sexual shit into totally normal conversation that wasn't sexual at all.

I'm sure it hurts like hell to have your kid cut you off but he's convinced me that his son's actions were most likely justified. Even in this post, he's focused only on his kid and what his kid is doing wrong. Anything that was on him is long ago and far away. Except it's not.

I've screwed up big time as a parent and worry that my kids will cut me off. They are teens and will be becoming adults in the next few years.

But first and foremost I've learned to take responsibility for what I've done. If my child cuts me off, I'll know that it was because I made serious mistakes. I'm doing everything I can to be a better person but I also know I can't erase the past.

Again, I'm sure it sucks, but blaming the kid is only furthering the problems that caused this in the first place. The only thing anyone can really do is take a good long look at yourself and change yourself. If you're not willing to do that, then you have no hope at all of ever making this right.

Wow. Just wow. 🙂

And btw it's resolved and we are on good terms. Pronouncements of hopelessness are often needlessly maudlin.

1

You crossed major boundaries left and right and you don’t seem to feel any genuine remorse. Of course he doesn’t like you. Why would he? You traumatized him. No child should ever be burdened with their parents emotional shit. I cannot wrap my head around the fact that you told him you wanted to kill yourself and got mad at him for wanting you to stop telling him this stuff. I know you love your kids, but you did a shit ton of damage and unless you completely transform yourself, you will never have a healthy relationship with him. Good luck.

Thanks for the back handed wish of luck. But I feel you are missing a lot of what I said. And I am not sure if pointing it out would make any difference. But for what it's worth, I do feel " genuine remorse" as i plainly stated. And as to transforming myself, you really seem to absolutely miss the situation I was in. Now my situation with my wife is totally different and, subsequently, so is my emotional state. I didn't really change so much as half of the pure shittieness of my life went away. Oh well, I should probably not engage with people so quick to judge without consideration or compassion but there it is.

Oh, and it's resolved and we are on good terms.

@towkneed I wasn’t being “back-handed”. You come off as immature and self-centered. All that matters in this scenario is your child and how you can attempt to make things right. I can tell you right now that whether or not you are currently on good terms, you haven’t resolved anything. What you did takes a very long time and a lot of work to heal from. I’m not trying to hurt your feelings. You asked, I responded. 🤷🏼♀️

@FreethoughtKaty And thank you very much for the positive input! I will truly take it to heart! Have a blessed day reveling in judgement! Now please let me know what other negative attributes I posses! So far I've got Immaturity, Self centeredness, and something close to cruely. What else?

@FreethoughtKaty Actually I was hoping for either growth from you or a direct insult so I could report you. Either works for me. Happy to occupy your time!

1

Don't go into great detail about your past transgressions. It's too much for him at present. Just let him know you love him, give him some space, and let him know you will always be there for him. Maybe send him a card occasionally. Let him do what he has to for now. You and your wife get counseling in the meantime and live your own life and try to be happy. He may decide to come around some day in the future. He is no doubt still processing. It does hurt but you can't change the past and he has to sort through what's best for him. There are no perfect parents!! Best wishes...

1

So your kid's a pansy who can't handle a little hardship? What exactly is the alternative that you think he should be seeing? That he should just man up and continue to put up with whatever shit you may still be blindly dishing out?

The ability to hurt others and the ability to stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it on go hand in hand. You're willing to acknowledge you did wrong but aren't willing to accept the natural consequences for those choices. What are you still doing that you aren't willing to acknowledge?

I know many people who have cut their parents off because they continue to be toxic influences on their life. If you really have changed your behavior and things are as wonderful as you claim then it's time to stop whining about your son putting boundaries on you and take responsibility for your choices. That doesn't seem to be happening at all.

You sound very angry. I'm sorry if I somehow infuriated you. Exercices helps us deal with stress. I work out regularly. Perhaps you should try it. Or, if you already do, increase intensity or frequency.

@towkneed And you sound like you're dismissing my comments because I sound angry. Whether I'm angry or not, it doesn't make me wrong.

@UpsideDownAgain Actually I find it entertaining to engage with you in this way. Especially since you seem so eager to be right while not realizing the futility of reacting with hostility. But please continue as I suspect having the last word is very important to you. I can dismiss you all day long. 🙂

2

We can only see our lives filtered through our lenses. And our memories are formed in our brains so what we remember is unique to each person even if it is of the same event. I don't know if this helps you any.
At 19 your sons brain is still not fully developed. He is still finding his way.
Personally I don't think our kids realize how tough it is to be a parent until they become parents themselves.
I wish you the best of luck.

1

I appreciate your honesty and recognizing your part in what contributed to your son needing to pull away for a while. He'll sort it out eventually. It's tough being a parent and we all do our best given our specific circumstances. It can feel like a thankless job sometimes. But we don't do it for the 'thanks' we get, right?

4

Thank you for sharing your story. My ex-wife and I separated when our daughter was two years old. At the time I felt ripped apart but made sure that I was there for my daughter. When I look back on it I think that it was the best decision at the time because I thought that there was no point in staying together if she does not want to be with me. Yes, I agonized over it for a very long time and continually worried about my daughter. The truth is that more than 98% of my worries were unfounded.

By the the time my daughter was 2 years and three months she could dive into a swimming pool and read when she was four years old, I taught her. We visited all the museums in London and all of the children's theaters and much much more...

Two years ago she sent me the following message on Face book: "
Happy Father’s Day to my Dad who taught me to be kind to everyone regardless of culture, religion or gender and to always live in the present moment and not dwell in the past on what could have been. I have never known anyone more unique or passionate about the constant search for knowledge.

You taught me that you can do anything you set your mind to in this life. I love the fact that when I was a little girl you repeatedly told me that nature loves diversity in the gene pool because I am half of you and half of mum. Although not the most conventional father you are one most of the most inspiring and interesting people I know".

In 2018 she took second place in the UKBFF (United Kingdom Bodybuilders Fitness Federation) Competition. We chat on a regular basis on WhatsApp..

2

Stop stressing. What was, happened. You can't change it. Be as good as you can be now. The relationship may come out as you want, or not. Respect his feelings. He may not want what you do, and it is his life.

One of the myths of Amerika is that families are happy, loving, wonderful. Some are, but many are not. My father was a monster, and I was never close to him. It's OK.

Thanks. Sorry about ur father

5

Apologize for any wrongs you may have committed and let him know that you love him, be careful and safe out there, and that your door is always open to him

You can't change the past and the future is wide open. It's the present that you gotta get through, alone and without him. It's his time to use whatever tools he has, you gave him

twill Level 7 Nov 15, 2020
3

I don't know, maybe take a break from everything with or without your wife. Good luck with it, sounds like you did what you could under tough circumstances, people are going to do what they do, can't change it.

6

Your post explains all of this honestly in what is happening now. I feel for the both of you and do see the problem but I see no solution other than giving your son some time.
Another possible help on this situation would be group therapy with you, your wife, and your son. Drawbacks are the expense and all of you would have to agree to this. it too will take some time.

Agreed.

3

Have you availed yourself of therapy? I am believer in therapy having needed it for myself plenty over the years. Your feelings of depression and feeling overwelmed, the constant fighting with your spouse, and perhaps an over reliance on your oldest to serve as your friend and confidante (just a guess on my part) would seem to me to be things a good therapist might be able to assist with.

I had a very difficult time with my parents, my dad in particular. Having time away from him when I was teen and early adult was an important step for me, although it didn't solve my issues with him. Time and therapy helped a lot even though now in my 60's I'm still working on issues I have with him (and he died 15 years ago).

With my own sons, I feel a certain amount of distance from them as well like I experienced with my own parents. Perhaps I recreated the situation I struggled with with my parents. Or perhaps we had other issues. I realized I was not a terribly available parent emotionally, even though I thought I was - I did try to be and I believe I did a better job than my dad did with me. Still, it is difficult to have issues yourself - and all of us do - and to always be available for our kids whenever they need us. Parenting may be the most difficult job there is to do and do well. The needs and roles the parent needs to fulfill are constantly changing as a child grows and the uniqueness of each child requires adapting parenting styles for each child - quite a trick when you are raising more than one at a time.

I have had mixed luck with therapists, although I may this time.
I agree with you. I do sometimes wonder if the way our society presents parenting is doing a disservice to both parent and child. I think it's a mistake to expect an inhuman perfection from our parents and wonder sometimes at the vilification of parental imperfection. Judging someone a "bad parent " is something we all feel perfectly justified in and I'm not sure that kind of simplification isn't harmful in the long run.

@towkneed parenting expectations are a throwback to the 'Leave it to Beaver' shows of the time.
All families were perfect, made a very good living, and never had a problem that couldn't be overcome in 30 min.

@towkneed - I agree, but it is a two sided process. One is reconciling ourselves with the mistakes our parents made and forgiving them (for our own benefit at least) and the other is being able to be open enough to hear the greivences of our children without judgment of them and being willing to forgive ourselves for not being a perfect parent for them.

I am currently working on an exercise with a therapist aimed at forgiving my father and releasing some of the rage I have stored up toward him. The first step is to write out my greivences I have against him - all the times I felt mistreated by him, discounted, punished unfairly, etc. Once that is completed, the assignment is to write out his biography. I'm told the order of the assignment is important, but I think I am getting it before I complete the first step. My dad had it worse than I did, and his parent made some pretty decent advances from their growing up - they came from the coal fields of Pennsylvania around the turn of the 20th century. While I may have new found empathy and compassion for my dad's situation, that doesn't negate my experiences as a kid with him. I would believe the same would be true for you as well as for your oldest.

I wish the best for both of you. Sound like you both deserve it.

3

I'm so glad to be childless. I've got enough troubles in my own.

I was once married and have a daughter, a son, 4 grands and 5 great-grands. I do not regret having kids and I love my family as they are part of my life, but I say without hesitation that, knowing what I know now, I would not marry and I would not have children.

@jlynn37 Who the fuck would even want to bring kids into this despicable world?

Of all things I regret about bad decisions I made throughout life at times, one thing I’m 100% glad about is not bringing kids here. There isn’t going to be anything left in 20 years in MHO.

@SeaRay215ex you help and support the best you can. kids get through it and grow into adults. We’ve been rewarded with wonderful grandkids, so it is all worth it.

5

I'm on the side of your oldest.
My dad was really judgmental, always making it clear just how disappointed he was in me every time we made contact. So I avoided him until the last few days of his life when I found out he was dying of cancer in 2002. He apologized for things that didn't matter and couldn't remember anything that did matter to me.
All that was before I came out as trans, while married, as a dad, and at the top of my earning history.
Children can sense the judgment of their parents even when the parents do their best to hide it.
He is immune to your observations because he has his own perspective that you had best make peace with or you'll lose him, just as my father lost me decades before he died.

I understand you, WW. My step father once accused me of tripping my sister when she bruised her lip and was bleeding. She was his only child and her and I were playing, but I did not trip anyone. She tripped and simply fell. Dad never believed it.

Wisp - I understand what you mean but please don't assume our situations are the same. I stayed for my oldest. My wife suffered from depression for years and constantly catastrophized everything. She refused help until she had a mental breakdown. Then she would go back and forth, taking her meds and or seeing a therapist to being anti-medicine and constantly angry. For years she treated me like a leper and everything I did was wrong and she was constantly angry. I refused to leave for several reasons, mainly poverty and I didn't want to risk leaving my oldest alone in her custody- although I would have sued for custody - we live in Texas where the mom is the default custody winner.
And as for being trans my oldest is also trans and has received nothing but support and acceptance for that. Sometimes more so than his mother.
And I was always at least an equal care giver, although I was often the only one working which meant I had less time.
Anyway, I was not expecting anyone to declare sides as I don't see the situation as a "versus". I agree that I was wrong where he accuses me. It's not about that to me. I am concerned that him seeing our relationship purely through that lens would contribute to his issues more than us working through them and him realizing that I was sometimes very good. I am ready to do penance, partly because I am human and not a monster. But I have reached out and will wait.

@towkneed
Yea, nothing is the same and yet it's all the same.
Life sucks like that.
My kids don't contact me much either, for an entirely different set of reasons, I'm just saying I wouldn't even have that if I were as judgmental as my dad.
I know nothing of you, I know what it is to be a parent, and a child, and I maintain what relationship I have with my children because I remember being one myself.
Take anything I say that you find useful, or whatever, I'm just sharing my results.

5

If you admit he is right several times, stop using the buts that follow. Do yourself a favor and stop trying to justify with explanations. Acceptance and tolerance are the key.

I'm not trying to justify anything. Just explain as it's complicated. I freely accept my mistakes here. And it's also not black and white.

@towkneed up to you, not me.

@Mofo1953 Yes

8

As my therapist told me, our children are not required to like us or love us, they have a right to their feelings, and can go their own way in life no matter what we want. You did your best, as do most parents, so don't beat yourself up, and just let him know you are always there to talk and hopefully in time you can mend the relationship. Being available to our kids no matter their age is an important part in loving them.

Thanks. It's what I am doing.
And I am sending him texts from time to time asking if he remembers different things- the good times - trying to remind him.

Well said

6

Keep sending Christmas and birthday cards with a banknote in them. You have to play the long game

Don't send $$ if u r estranged!! It doesn't seem right. U should have to buy their love and attention!!!

@2muchstupidity I was briefly estranged from my youngest. Fortunately, I did have her bank details for paying in. So I sent her a card with a monopoly note and a message on the back saying I had paid the money into her account. We are good now and when I asked her what she thought about her card, she thought it was cool.
Sending cash is not buying love. It just says "I am thinking about you, have a drink on me"

4

we do the best we can and we have to let them be adults

8

Just leave him alone. He may come back and then he may not.

Yes.

You are wise

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