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I think honesty is a virtue. I prefer truth over comfort. I've noticed that the theists in my life are also the most dishonest people I know. They like inducing a fake sense of calm especially when shit hits the fan. I think this just makes things worse and inspires inaction (like many theist behaviors--like prayer/ forced forgiveness of even the most egregious wrongdoings). It also encourages people hold off on problems and let these problems ferment longer than they need to, thus becoming rotten and, in some cases, completely beyond repair. Thoughts?

AustinSkepticus 7 Apr 12

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I agree honesty is a virtue. In a relationship honesty is paramount. Partners should be able to share all questionable behavior and deal with it in real time. Admitting a mis-step immediately allows the wronged partner to make a decision whether to stay in the relationship and work through it or not.

By not admitting the mis-step immediately, the choice is taken away, and the partner is duped until the truth comes out, some time later, and the dishonesty becomes almost worse than the crime. Since it's not dealt with, it festers.

I have found religious people, even "new age spiritual" people to be extremely dishonest, unethical and immoral when it suits them. They don't mind lying to people, as long as they are honest and ask forgiveness from their "higher power" and then all is good for them, but they never right the wrong with the victim. I prefer honesty.


Mistaken belief does not a liar make. It is intellectually dishonest to frame genuine belief as intentional deceit. Many religious folks are honest, but they believe that an all-knowing being is better equipped to handle things. Which would be true if such a being existed and cared. Religion is dishonest, yes, but that does not mean believers are.
I do agree that religion causes more harm than good, especially among those who truly believe prayer is the solution to all problems. But we should be wary of categorizing the victims in the same class as the con men.

Good points.


On the flip side, that's why they encourage soldiers to be religious. They want them to think "It's OK to run into the machine gun fire, because if I get hit, I will get to live with my imaginary friend in the sky"

BD66 Level 7 Apr 12, 2018

You are so right. You just have to go on to dating sights to find out how many liars/dishonest people are out there, yet they all claim honesty is one of the traits they are looking for in a relationship. I do not think our kuds have been brought up in a honesty culture.


A lie has to last for ever

And for that to happen you have to keep on lying to support that one lie.

that's exactly true, id rather be honest, some say I'm too honest but they shouldn't ask if they don't want my answer.

Exactly !!! Why be foolish enough to burden yourself 😉 !! 🙂 life is simple if you let it.

Exactly my friend


I try to maintain honesty in all things, tempered by empathy. Doesn't always work out that way, but I do try. I have zero tolerance for liars, but I understand that just becuse I feel that way others aren't as passionate about it. What amazes me is how many people would much rather be lied to than be told the truth. It truly staggers me.


What would you expect from a religion that forgives its followers for anything under the sun aside from blasphemy? If they lie, they just pray for forgiveness from their imaginary creator and everything is okay.

Exactly, ask forgiveness on Sunday, back to, 'sinning' on Monday. Never made sense to me.


I am an honest person. I can't shows on my face. I'm just not that clever. My observation has been that those who do lie and deceive do seem to go further in life. Also people, in general, don't like the truth.


Honesty is not the best policy - it's the ONLY policly...


Well said...I agree 100%


Their whole life is a lie, so they learn to be comfortable with it.
They do it because they are so afraid of being sent to hell by their alleged "loving" god.

This is it exactly.. You cannot tell the truth to anyone when living a lie.


They leave it up to 'god'...they put it in God's hands and pray about it...until...someone, else takes matters into their own hands and does something, concrete!


When I was a kid I lied about things that I had knowingly done that were wrong hoping to not get "caught" and punished.

When I was around 22 I got caught in a lie by my ex wife over something trivial that I shouldn't have had to lie about anyway. I got caught because she asked me about it and I gave a slightly different answer. I didn't remember the details of my lie.

At that moment I decided that I was never going to lie again about anything. This is me. Take me as I am. It's just one reason that I have never cheated on anyone. Mentally I cannot deal with perpetuating a false story and don't understand how someone lives that way. The only person that I have lied to since is myself. Trying to convince myself that a situation isn't what it seems as a misguided defense mechanism. Eventually I face the truth and move on.

I guess some people use religion to justify their lies for various reasons.

I like this conversation with Sam Harris.


There is being tactful and polite vs a full on intentional lie I think. Maybe a thin line in between? Either way it seems way funnier to tell the truth as most are not used to it and their reactions are entertaining!


I can't tell a believable lie to save my life. I can't even dissemble well. My friends know not to ask me to even try.

And yes, I'm Autistic. You want a load of honesty? Read my profile.

Thanjsvfor the like.


Some people are pretty much incapable .. On the Autism spectrum.. Doing so may cause them major conflict .. Even worse. Althoguh this can seem advatageous there are situations where you may need to lie .. Say, you are being mugged and lying is your best option.

I find truth comes in levels.. Some people can handle it .. Some can't .. If you can you have probably been forced by ephiphay and trauma to really face everything head on.

I think if you have been pushed that far it's likely you have already given up on God! I find religion being a lie it's almost that the people who live that way cannot help lie to others as they are basing their fundamental principles on lies. So it's hard for them to be honest when their motivations are based on the imaginary / explanations for peoples behaviour can be based on "spirits" or such nonsense 🙂

Well that probably plays a factor. My brother and I are both on the upper spectrum. We're always asked for our honest opinions because no one else appears to be giving them. If I were to summarize it I'd say I tell the truth 95% of the time. White lie/Tell Half-truths 4.5% of them and full lie like 0.5% of the time.

@AustinSkepticus Awesome matey !!! Tough sometimes but awesome ... I am kinda forced through eilpsey so have to learn to process immediately or let it go as any latent build up combined with stress / sleep loss and other factors can seize me! IT took me a while but I just never shy away now. I may choose not to consider or answer some things immediately .. Mainly as I think some questions demand more than a simple yes / no answer or brief consideration!! 🙂 It's good to know yourself isn't it.


Anyone who says they don't lie is a liar, and I am touching myself in an intimate place as I text this 😉 Religious people do not lie anymore that un-believers. It's just a different set of lies. We all practice self-delusion at one time or another in order to make life more bearable. The thing that fascinates me is that relgious belief requires collective self-delusion on a huge scale. i.e. people throughout the world who will never interact with each other agree to perpetuate the same myth to prevent the whole thing collapsing like a house of cards.
With regard to pointing out 'our truth' to others (be they religious or not), that just displays a lack of empathy for your fellow human beings. Lies are comforting. I am no longer an angry atheist. That is just a phase that unfortunatly some atheists never manage to pass through. If religious belief allows a fellow human some comfort who am I to challenge their beliefs. Challenge your own beliefs not others 🙂
Self-awareness is key. To be able to say to yourself "sorry lad, this is who you are and there's not a lot you can do about it but it's because this, this and this happened to you." And you can blunt the edges of the worst parts of you with a little bit of work and some periods of self-reflection.
Incidentally, I was not touching myself in an intimate place whilst texting ( never was much of a multi-tasker) but some of you were prepared to consider the possibilty, right? That good. Keep considering the possibilities 🙂

Not everyone ! That is just your POV ... I lie to myself about nothing .. I welcome you to test me on that .. 😉 I used to but I found myself facing severe illness which meant lying to myself about anything would have been foolish!

Again people with Autism for example can't lie.. They can be taught to lie badly but even so if they do it may cause them to have a major breakdown. It's just individual and dependant on brain structures!


Some people never learn to lie 😉

Exceptions to every rule, fair enough Nickbeee. I can live with that. Viva diversity. My comment was addressed to those who lie to themselves but see the lies in others 😉 And that lies are not necessarily of themselves an evil. 🙂


I have had affairs while married or in relationships. I have told parents that their kids are bright when they are not. I have not always been truthful with my mother or siblings. I sometimes hope something bad will happen to people to teach them a lesson: like gun advocates suffering from gun devastation, rapists suffering a worse fate than their victims. No. I am not a virtuous person. Certainly not.


I guess most of the people I've known in my life are not theists. None of the neighbors I know were religious people. Some of them have demons in their lives. Never ever have I heard anyone pray or ask a god for forgiveness.


I agree.


Some folks are calm when the shit hits the fan. I do better in crisis than with small problems. When a woman ask you if that dress makes her ass look to big or if you like her new hair cut, you had better know up front whether she will a appreciate your honesty or not.


I sagree.


I think honesty is damned hard work, in my head as well as in my life. So, from me you'll mostly get silence.

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