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The Universe

The First Book of Mosses Called Genesis is pointed to as claiming the Universe (“firmament&rdquo😉 was create by God on the second day of his creative process. As an Agnostic, I have my doubts that actually happened. I can’t prove beyond all doubt it didn’t, but I also see no credible proof it did. I’d say about a 99% chance no such creative effort ever took place.

Wondering specifically what believers rely upon to justify such a a massive undertaking, I researched some scriptures in the Bible and ask around. A few of the reasonings I came up with included the following:

  1. ‘The heavens disclose the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handy work” (Psalm 19:1)
  2. “As the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him” (Psalm 103:11)
  3. The Universe manifests the glory of God. It provides a perspective of the power of God as compared to the limited capability of mere mortals. It humbles humanity in worshiping their creator.
  4. God intends to let the redeemed one day explore the rest of the Universe. With the length of time that eternity affords, it makes sense that an enormous Universe would be required
  5. The Universe may contain multi-millions of inhabited planets just like ours. Therefore, the immensity of it may not be all that vast when all such planets are considered.

Let’s take a brief look at a few of the unfathomable statistics scientists have postulated. The known Universe contains well over 100 billion galaxies with an estimated total of roughly 10 billion trillion stars. Our Sun is just one of those stars. The Universe is still expanding at an unfathomable rate. Estimates have it continuing to increase its volume by a trillion cubic light-years (the distance it takes light to travel in a year-cubed) with no end in sight.

The Andromeda Galaxy (just one of well over 100 billion such gargantuan nebulas) is the one closest to the Milky Way Galaxy of which our Earth occupies a relatively minuscule speck of space. If the distance between the two galaxies was reduced (for comparative purposes only) to the distance between someone’s eyes and a book being read, the most remote galaxy of which we are aware would be nearly 1.2 miles away.

Concerning 1 and 2 above, there’s no concrete proof the opinions set forth in Psalm are the result in anything more than the opinion of a human most likely deceptively representing the reasoning of a divine being. I can’t know that for certain, but I do know for sure there’s no credible evidence at this late date these passages represent anything more than that. It’s mere guesswork at best to conclude they do.

Responses from unnamed persons in 3-5 are likewise attempts to offer explanations based on mere speculation with absolutely no back-up proof of any kind. For example, the idea of there being countless other planets inhabited by mortals like us is as yet to be established.

So, now we come to the more obvious rationalization having to do with common sense. Why would God feel it necessary to create something so massive when being primarily concerned with our planet and the humans populating it. It makes no sense at all.

There’re enough stars and rotating planets around them in the Milky Way alone to display the glory and power of any imagined creator Why such extravagant excess if that was the purpose? No, the only logical conclusion is the Universe has evolved by some other means than as part of some godly plan dealing with launching the human race on Earth.

(Fellow members are welcome to view my weekly blog at addressing the origin of God. No personal information, log-in or cost required.)

raymondahult 4 May 11

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In their storybook, their god creates trees and grass on day 3 and creates the sun, stars and planets on day 4.

Their god is an idiot.

That really doesn't take too much research to realize.

Whoever did Genesis wasn't much of a brainchild.


He said "Let there be light" on the first day. But, since he didn't create the sun until the 4th day, how exactly did three days pass?

You want logic from religión?

@Mofo1953 No (and this is where they start talking about metaphor or such BS). I want acknowledgment that Genesis couldn't have been divinely inspired because it's obvious it's writer didn't know how the universe works.

@Mofo1953 I'll be waiting an eternity for that of course.


Just stories created by non-scientific mythmakers similar and in contrast to many creation myths from all corners of the world over the millennia.

A religion is a myth once it's been proven to be false and that falsehood is accepted by the society for which it was created. Dozens of societies have traded their past myths/religions in for newer ones that they were forced to accept or sometimes willingly accepted.

Now it's time for science to step in and contribute to a more plausible and believable creation story for those who want one. Change comes slowly when a mythinformation is so ingrained in a society.

Couldn't have put it better


You can go through all these mental gymnastics without involving us, you know.

You involve yourself when you choose to participate. No one is under any obligation to read or participate in any activity here or on the internet at large.

@jlynn37 Fair point.

I could not involve other members of, but why? I thought that was one of the reasons for joining. Sharing ideas with each other.

@jlynn37 Aw, Spoil-sport, do have a problem with other people have a little fun with Jerk-offs from time to time or something?

@jlynn37 Ah, stop being such a Spoil-sport, we are enjoying ourselves by TRYING to teach a Christfool to ACTUALLY READ the Babble, sorry bible, BEFORE he starts to preach to us.


This is better

Moses supposes his toeses are roses,
But Moses supposes erroneously;
For nobody's toeses are posies of roses,
As Moses supposes his toeses to be.

One of the great dance routines of all time. Donald O'Connor was so under rated. IMO


Psst, DO NOT tell ANYONE but it spelled MOSES, NOT Mosses, since mosses are found on trees, rocks, etc, etc, and thrive in and upon damp surfaces, etc, etc.
You know I would have thought that a True Believer such as yourself would surely have know how to spell the name of Moses.

Nice one, mate.

@Ryo1 Thank you for compliment, much appreciated.

"Two Corinthians."

I see the error I made now. I can see I need to do more editing before I post.


Seriously ??. You desperately need to learn the difference between mythology and cosmology.

And between Mythology, Cosmology and Botany as well since " Mosses" are plants and not heroes of Biblical Mythology.

@Triphid Very good.. I missed that 😉

@Moravian No probs friend I caught it for you.

@Triphid I have books of flowers,grasses, ferns, trees, fungi and birds but not one on mosses. My library is incomplete

@Moravian Consider the part of the planet where you live then you SHOULD be able to tell us upon WHICH side of a tree does moss grow?

@Triphid Ha ha, I think most of the moss is growing on my lawn. I think it is lichen that should only grow on the north side of the tree but it is so damp here it grows everywhere 😉. There is a little story I like telling creationists. During the industrial revolution everything, including tree bark was covered in soot and and the pepper moth which were white and dark grey in colour became dark grey and black only through natural selection as the light ones were seen easily seen by predators and eaten but since the clean air act they have changed back to a lighter colour again.
Not quite monkeys becoming human but a nice story about how evolution works.

@Moravian FYI, and NO offence meant but what you are expounding here I learned about in High School and in Primary School some 40 plus years ago.

@Triphid True, but not in some schools where they don't teach evolution. I mentioned a book I was reading to a Christian friend. It was "The philosopher and the wolf". a great story about an academic, Mark Rowlands, who raised a wolf cub and had it as a pet for years. He talks about the different type of intelligence between wolves and apes. when I said this to her including humans with apes she looked at me in horror and said "we are not apes". End of conversation.

@Moravian Well I cannot help how backward the school systems in Scotland were or now are, can I.
Oh and for your enlightenment re-moss and the plural thereof, one can ELECT to use moss either in the singular or in the plural or elect to go with moss for the singular and mosses for the plural.
Just thought yo may like to know that little bit extra grammatical information btw.

@Triphid Thanks in part to the Church of Scotland education was more advanced here than in any other European country. They opened grammar schools in every parish so that the common people were literate and could read the scriptures. This backfired slightly as when people could read they began to realise that there was more to life than religion and Scotland was at the forefront of the European enlightenment. Education has always been important and in fact Scotland had four universities at a time when there were only two in England.
Compare the churches actions with the Roman Catholic church who still preached in Latin so that only the priests could understand and the populace were kept ignorant and under control.
Oh and the lady I mentioned was from Bulgaria and spoken English flawlessly with very little accent.

@Moravian Sorry but precisely where and how did your Bulgarian lady friend come in to the original topic of the discussion.

@Triphid Just an example of how Christians reject evolution and would rather accept the mythology of creationism.

@Moravian What, may one ask, has that to do with the price of eggs as per the original topic of discussion?


Damn I should write a book about my self. I could be, oh I don't know.......GOD ! Yes, I'd get the lead role.

twill Level 7 May 11, 2022

Count me in. I be first in line to purchase it.


Soooo, you are spending your life debating/advancing.......what?
The Unprovable?


Other people have mentioned a certain error, so it would be Mosst improper for me to also do so.

Other than that - why try to 'explain' fantasy?

What's the certain error? I make a lot of them. Not too proud to admit it. I think pointing out fantasy is helpful in promoting fact.

"Fantasy is helpful in promoting fact," in which dozing session during which sermon at church did you actually dream that one up may one asks?
Please let me give ONE TRUE fact contained within the covers of the Holey Babble, aka bible, those being the two words ) wit5h exception of course of the Printers name and dates of print and re-printing of course, The End, found on the last page of the great compendium of bat-crap, twaddle and inane drivel, aka the bible.

@raymondahult Fantasy is only helpful in promoting fact when the fantasy, by pure chance, happens to co-incide with fact. Yet exactly the same could be said for any random collection of words, so what value has fantasy beyond random ramblings? .

However there are collections of words that bear a closer relationship with reality. That doesn't mean they get nothing wrong, as perfection is a high bar to jump, but at least their authors have troubled themselves to collect and check facts, confirm them as well as they can with evidence, look for inconsistency, seek knowledgeable input, and so on.

The writings of scientific authors are an example.

If you truly want to learn truth, don't read the bible, read science. If you want fantastical entertainment... well... still don't read the bible actually, the 'Lord of the Rings' (J R R Tolkein) is so much better.


Yes, we are wrong and the universe is a few stars we know and the flat earth has 4 corners. Nothing is expanding and god told Moses how he did it all in a book. Did God write the book or did Moses? There is not much evidence for either of them. Let's use real common sense. Why are so many constantly trying to tell us all what an imaginary being did? Why are some of us so worried about it? I see this a lot and also repeated ideas of whether we are a good person or not. Please! I think I want to vomit.

I agree.


Not impressed, I would have created bacon cheeseburgers on day 2?!! 😋

Buck Level 7 May 11, 2022

I swear that some ppl on here think that they get points for each word in their post. I'm just poking fun, lol. Does seem like some ppl have to much time on their hands though, lol.

You got that right. Way too much time.

Shit, if it were so then this jerk would already have hit the "9" imo.


When some religious idiot can do no better than "I know the bible is true because it is the word of god, and I know it the word of because the bible tells me so"
I smile, offer them a blanket and some cocoa and sit them down in front of a TV permanently tuned in to TCC.

I agree completely


That did not happen. The book of Genesis is pure mythology, a cosmogony like that of many other cultures where things are created by magical beings. Even if there is a god, creation did not happen like that. Genesis I is a preposterous story and not at all historical. It makes as much sense as Tolkien's story of Iluvatar and music of the Ainur, most of which was ripped off from Greek and Norse mythology. Less sense, in fact.

Let us award this member an extra 2,000 points for putting his comment/response so clearly, succinctly and well thought out and written, he truly, imo, deserves them.


The proof is… that you’re going to hell if you don’t believe in it. What else proof you need?

Of course I’m kidding but that’s how church works


In my opinion, it is nothing more that a tribal creation myth of how the Hebrew people came to be. Adam and Eve were not the first humans, they were the first Hebrews.


Your point?

The point is it makes no sense to create a universe that immense as part of the creation of the earth and humanity. Therefore, that a God had any part in the creation lacks credibility. Get it?

@raymondahult yeah, I got "it" years ago. As bitflipper said, "You can go through all these mental gymnastics without involving us, you know."

However, you obscure your meaning by writing in too much detail. The concept could have been expressed in much simpler language and more succinctly. I read poorly written essays for a living, not wading through them on this site.


There is considerable proof about how the Universe started and formed. It is on line in several places.

True, but isn't it a little bit helpful to summarize in one post rather than needing to search all the several places. Takes less time.

@raymondahult Usually yes, however anyone who expresses ignorance regarding something so basic is beyond hope. I'm not playing that game.


Before even starting debating whether the universe was created by God, look East. The ancient Chinese, for example, had a very different idea as to how the universe was created.

Ryo1 Level 8 May 12, 2022

Share it with us. I'd be glad to know more.

You should try the "explanation" as given by an Australian Aboriginal Tribe regarding the origins of the planet, stars, etc, etc.
Far, far better than the Christfool one where they merely state "God Did it."

@raymondahult Look online for cosmology and ancient Chinese philosophers.

Turtles all the way down.


Excuse me @ raymondahult BUT if memory serves correct Genesis is the very FIRST book of Holey Babble and the Myth of Moses is to be found in the book of Exodus, which according to the 3, count them THREE, actual copies of the worlds Greatest compendium of Myth and Fairy Tales commences on page 79 where Genesis begins on page number one and ends at page 78 with the verse that makes mention of Jacob if memory serves correctly.
I kind of guess that you"Cherry-picking" God-mobsters never actually do as at least 99.9% of we Atheists have done, repeatedly, and ACTUALLY read the bible from cover to cover, page by page, verse by verse, etc, etc, otherwise, IF you hand you would not have made such massive error and opened your mouth and placed BOTH feet in it whilst trying to "dazzle" we, the poor Heathens, with your self-assumed Expertise.
You MAY have better luck next time BUT you WILL need to have ACTUALLY read your bible first imo.

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