11 19

So this Trump supporter says I'm a moron for supporting Joe Biden. And I'll admit that I never was a huge Biden fan. My ambivalence toward him goes all the way back to Clarence Thomas' confirmation hearings. I thought the Senate Judicial Committee (of which Biden was Chairman) treated Anita Hill rather shabbily. And outside the Committee, Biden had a way of occasionally putting his foot in his mouth. However, looking at more recent history, comparing the Trump and Biden presidencies, I have to say Biden is the clear winner. Here's the basis for my opinion; I leave to you to decide who is the moron:


  1. Beat down the worst pandemic in 100 years
  2. Passed the biggest infrastructure bill ever
  3. Passed the 1st meaningful gun legislation in a generation
  4. Boosted US competitiveness and national security with the "CHIPS" Act
  5. Saved Americans billions by allowing Medicare to negotiate with big pharma over drug prices
  6. Responded with alacrity to international gasoline shortage a got prices coming down
  7. Rebuilt relationships with allies abroad, built trust and strengthened NATO
  8. Provided leadership and material support in facing down naked fascist aggression from Russia
  9. Passed legislation to make corporations and billionaire tax cheats pay their fair share
  10. Passed legislation to address the health needs of veterans injured by exposure to burn pits.
  11. Finally got the USA out of Afghanistan. It was a messy exit, but part of that stemmed from his predecessor cutting the Afghan Government out of negotiations with the Taliban, and especially giving a firm date by which we would be out. No matter who sliced it, it was going to be a shit sandwich.
  12. I'm getting as badly screwed by inflation as anybody, but I don't blame it on Biden. It's a global phenomenon, not something he can control. What's he supposed to do? Not invest in infrastructure? Let our roads crumble and bridges collapse? Inflation is actually much worse in other countries. And I think Jay Powell is going about controlling it in the right way, with aggressive interest rate hikes.
  13. I don't give Biden all the credit for this historically low unemployment rate and booming economy. Like inflation, a lot of that is out of his hands. But I do give him credit for not screwing it up.


  1. Bungled the early government response to COVID-19, continued to send the wrong signals to the public throughout the ordeal
  2. Tried to take health insurance away from 14 million Americans (by supporting repeal the Affordable Care Act) while having NO substitute plan
  3. Gave a HUGE tax break to the wealthiest Americans, skyrocketing the deficit; with the money pissed away in Iraq and Afghanistan, this is arguably the root of our present inflation problem
  4. Cozied up to fascist dictators around the world
  5. Gave support and comfort to domestic terrorists
  6. At least 10 times, obstructed justice during the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election
  7. Very likely colluded with Russia in their meddling in the 2016 election (Mueller could not rule it out)
  8. Brought Iran closer to having nuclear weapons by reneging on the nuclear deal
  9. Alienated our UN and NATO allies
  10. Lied constantly (40,000 times verified while in office)
  11. Illegally withheld military assistance to Ukraine as part of an attempt to extort a political favor; used government power for his personal interest
  12. Packed the Supreme Court (and lower courts) with right-wing idealogues
  13. Ordered paramilitary forces to attack peaceful protesters
  14. Had immigrant children separated from their families, housed them in cages, lost track of where they were
  15. Scapegoated non-white immigrants; ginned up fear by tacitly endorsing baseless replacement theory
  16. Delayed necessary response to climate crisis, allowed fossil fuel industry to keep on polluting as usual
  17. Promised to build a wall, said Mexico would pay for it
  18. Pardoned crony who stole money for wall construction that was collected from American donors
  19. Pardoned crony convicted of witness tampering and perjury in testimony relating to Russian meddling in 2016 election
  20. With bald lies, incited an armed mob to attack the Capitol and prevent the counting of legitimate electoral votes; 5 people died on the day; hundreds of police were grievously injured while defending the Capitol
  21. Conspired to defraud the United States with lies about electoral fraud and a fake elector scheme
  22. Illegally pressured state government officials to falsify election results
  23. Stole highly sensitive, classified documents, lied about it
  24. Compromised national security by leaving classified documents lying around unsecured where who knows who could see them
  25. Continues to issue veiled threats of mass violence if he is held to account for his many crimes.
Flyingsaucesir 8 Sep 22

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@ Flyingsaucesir The person that admits to saying that to you posts mainly MAGA, Trump, DeSantis supporting stuff. I feel pity for that person. A 3 judge panel on the 11th circuit of which 2 thirds were Trump appointees, has ruled against Trump in favor of the DOJ continuing their investigation of the documents he stole and a massive law suit that will likely end his company was just filed. And that was just what happened in one day. The orange Jesus is finally going down. It is such a shame that it took this long and so many resources, not to mention the lives that were lost. In addition to the lives that were needlessly lost from his mishandling of covid, the lives that were ended on Jan. 6 and those that may well have been lost from the mishandling of government documents will never be restored, but I think that we will finally get to a point where we are rid of him and we do not have to hear his voice lying and uttering nonsense.

Yes, I think you're right: Orange Foolius is finally going down. Thank gawd! 🀣


@Flyingsaucesir So why even bring up that a moronic, biased, racist, sexist Trump supporter challenged you?

Most - if not all - I'm guessing somewhere in the high 90th percentile of agnostics - support evidence based science and the modern Democratic party....although I have been banned from a strand on this site called "Conservatives".

.I guess they forgot that a "pillar of conservatism is religion" (their POV, not mine)

So I gotta ask...what made you so defensive?

My motivations for posting this were as follow:

Originally the core of it was a reply to a tag to a comment in another post. After I composed it (which took time and effort) I thought it would make a good post in itself. It's a lot of information that we don't see all together in one place every day. And this is not even a comprehensive list. I would like to see what others may add to it. And I would be delighted if they would in turn use it in arguments with Trump supporters among their own family and friends. (Trump and many of his supporters - including my interlocutor in the other post - are making threats ranging from rioting to civil war if Trump is prosecuted. I would much rather put in the time and effort to reason with them than to shoot them.) Finally, I wanted the person who accused me of being a moron for supporting Biden to see how that would boomerang; how his wild accusation would result in the wider circulation of a devastating argument against Trump and for Biden.

  1. Commited TAX FRAUD against the States of NY, DE, CA and no doubt FL.

  2. Commited TAX FRAUD against the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT(IRS).

  3. Enriched himself personally in violation of the Emoluments Clause.

  4. CONTINUES to enrich himself with Campaign donations by falsely claiming the Democrats are on a "Witch Hunt" and that Democrats and FBI are "Coming for YOU".

Biden wasn't my first choice and he wasn't first choice for a LOT of Lewis Black pointed out back in the early 2000's..."Voting is like being offered TWO BOWLS OF SHIT...which one comes with bread?" πŸ˜‚

Nice additions to the list. What Biden accomplishments did I leave out?


45 HAD to go. Biden was the only one who could beat him.
That's all that mattered at the time.
He's doing a good job.
He had/has a lot of fucked up shit to fix.
I don't expect he'll get it all done.
I don't regret my vote.

Ditto. I voted for Biden and would do it again if he was running against Trump

@Unity Without hesitation!!


I supported Biden all the way during the primaries. You know why? Because Joe Biden was the one candidate Trump feared. The fact they manufactured the Hunter Biden scandal and attempted to blackmail President Zalensky in order to do so. That convinced me that Biden was the one guy who could defeat Douchebag Donald Trump and the Cheeto-man knew it. I would've even supported Joe Manchin if I thought that would stop the Orange Fuckface.


biden wasn't my choice either but it seems to be his time to shne I can also remember they didn't want biden to advance because he was likely to embarrass with some of his remarks

he has done more good than anyone expected


There is a continuous scale.

Trump is at the extreme 'shitty, power-grabbing, lying, criminal asshole' end of the scale - Biden is at a far more acceptable position.

It's unfortunate when the choice you're given is between 'catastrophically terrible' and 'merely mediocre' - but when that IS the choice, 'merely mediocre' wins.

I'll take merely mediocre

As far as getting the job done is concerned, I think Biden is better than mediocre. He has a lot of notches on his belt.

@Flyingsaucesir That's fair enough. Everyone has their own assessment - and that's fine. The problem comes with those deluded enough to worship the inexcusable, and thankfully neither of us are heading down that rabbit hole.


Biden was not my choice either but I think he is a man for the times. I am mostly satisfied with him.


The Trump supporter you refer to is me and I only called you a moron after you called me one for supporting Trump. It appears you have swallowed the liberal main stream media bullshit hook line and sinker as you apparently believe the crap they put out. People like you are the ones who are a threat to the country, not us Trump supporters.

Well, if you still support Trump after everything that has happened then it sounds like in your case the shoe fits.

And it appears that you have swallowed the right wing MAGA media bullshit lies hook, line and sinker.

When it comes to blind adherence to the narrative, the prize has to go to followers of the "orange Jesus" (a term coined by Republicans). I have never heard so much "la la la I'm not listening" than from you guys. Even on a secular site such as this, Trumpians will not push back against attempts to make America a theocracy. If Trump shouts "Lock her up" because Hillary's emails were insecure, you all chant with him. Yet thousands of classified documents stored in a golf resort basement are fine. You all cheer when he says something like "Only mob bosses and guilty people plead the 5th". Yet Trump does it over 400 times and that's suddenly different.
Every time he or his endorsed candidate loses an election "It was rigged". Every time witnesses swear on oath about his wrongdoing, judges rule against him or officials refused to do his unlawful bidding "they were bought". Every investigation is "The worst witch-hunt ever" (well since the last one and before the next). And you guys swallow it, balls and all.
Now before you reply with some whataboutism line like "The Dems are the same. No sorry but you are wrong. Biden has not had a free ride and neither have leading Dems. Look how quickly Cuomo fell from grace and compare that with Matt Gates.
I can understand how you might have liked Trumps' style and/or policies but should not give the man cart blanch to shoot someone in Times Square.
If I am wrong? Tell me one thing Trump has in your opinion done wrong, just one, I double dare you.

Ps. If you are tempted with a whataboutism reply, please refrain. Imagine if you are arguing with a Catholic online and you bring up priests involved with child abuse and the church's cover-up? Then the Catholic posts a link to an atheist gym teacher who also was a paedo. It won't make the priest or the church less guilty. In fact, it just weakens their case further.

45 has always been a serial con man.
He's also a pathological liar.
Anyone who refuses to see that is 100% deliberately ignorant.
Sorry. Not sorry.

@Trajan61 I didn't call you anything. Go back and read our conversation. After you said there would be civil war if Trump is prosecuted, I said "anyone who would stick their neck out for Trump is a fucking moron." Now I don't know that you are stupid enough to take up arms on behalf of the Done Cheato, but if the shoe fits,...

@273kelvin Well said! 🎯

IT is a lost cause to have any meaningful dialogue with the plethora of TDS Inflicted MORONS on this site .Good luck

@richiegtt You definitely got that right!

@richiegtt Hey I do not hear you even attempting to make a cogent argument. All you have offered is ad hominem attack. What are you, 5 years old?

@Flyingsaucesir He’s one of the few on the main forum of this website who make any sense!

@Trajan61 You are also invited to bring an actual argument, if you have one.

@Flyingsaucesir I refuse to have any dialogue about political issues with individuals on the main site or any group other than my political group of choice that I am a member of.To me this would be tantamount to talking to a religious person about my Ideas on agnosticism .A waste of my time and yours . I will offer my opinion on all most any other subject..I only reply to comments made by members of my aforementioned group as I did in this situation.

@richiegtt Okay, your surrender is accepted πŸ˜‚

@Flyingsaucesir I decline to debate with someone who doesn’t seem to have any sense.

@Trajan61 Define "sense"? Is it;
a, A reasoned argument, responding to questions and criticisms with answers and counters using verified facts (links provided)?
b, Only accepting information within the Trump narrative, ie. All unfavourable news is fake. All investigations of him are "witch hunts". Any testimony against him is false, regardless of whom or under oath. And any argument can be countered with Hunter Biden?

@273kelvin Seeing as your British why are you so concerned about American politics? You have enough problems of your own to take care of. Hell you liberals don’t even believe the facts presented like open borders, skyrocketing inflation and the completely idiotic attempt to shut down oil and gas production which if successful would virtually destroy the economy.

@Trajan61 Yeah I'm a Brit but I'm on this site (which is mostly American) and I do have a lot of American friends. Secondly, America sneezes and the rest of the world gets a cold. My parent's generation lived through the great depression which was caused by the 1929 Wall St crash. The world is much more connected now and the USA's debt is incredibly higher. Now I look at America spiralling into some form of civil war, I should keep my mouth shut?
The issues you brought up are political policies. These are things that should be debated and then you should ALL get a chance to have your say at election time.
The investigations into Trump are not about policy, they are about unlawful and treasonable conduct. So let us not talk about policies but just one instance of real facts;
Trump is recorded as asking Brad Raffensperger to "Just find me 11780 votes" FACT, indisputable.
That is against the law. FACT. You cannot do this at your bank switching (votes for dollars) and not be charged with attempted theft.

Okay, before we get into a political debate here. I may disagree with your political views but I also know it is your country and many other Americans agree with you. All I do ask is to think twice before you support the part of the Republican party that supports/condones criminality, treason and violent insurrection.

@273kelvin The democrat party is the one who is a threat to our democracy with their bogus investigations weaponizing of the FBI and dept of Justice and using government funds to try to enlist more democrat voters. Also the main stream media has covered up for the democrats and publishes lies in their favor. They even oppose showing a photo ID to vote which is a damn good indication to me they intend to allow non citzens to vote. The Hunter Biden laptop coverup before the 2020 election is a good example of media corruption.

@Trajan61 Okay if you are talking about weaponising the FBI & DOJ, (I prefer the term "politicisation) then it's a case of whoever smelt it dealt it. Trump had Bill Barr whitewash the Muller report. Brought forth a completely bogus prosecution of Clinton campaign lawyer Michael Sussman, just to even out the score*. Even had the DOJ fight Trumps' deformation of character case in NY (for alleged rape). An unprecedented decision that is still ongoing. I know that Barr is now looked on by the MAGA crowd as a turncoat because he had one last vestige of honour but before that he was Trumps' bitch.
From what I can see, Biden has taken a back seat regarding the investigations. (As the POTUS should). He even left the decision of whether or not the Mar-a-Lago docs were executive privilege to someone else.

So tell me what investigations are bogus and why?
Jan 6th?
Was the capital stormed Y/N? Was the purpose of the crowd to disrupt or interfere with the peaceful transition of power? Y/N? Were there other attempts to disrupt or interfere with the peaceful transition of power? Y/N? Should this be investigated? Y/N?
NY civil case into Trump Org?
Is/was the Trump Org guilty of fraudulent accounting Y/N? Has there already been at least one successful prosecution? Y/N? Were other people involved? Y/N? Should this be investigated? Y/N?
Did Trump put pressure on Brad Raffensperger to find him 11780 votes? Y/N? Were other people involved? Y/N? Should this be investigated? Y/N?
Mar-a-lago documents?
Did Trump have them? Y/N? Do government documents belong to the government? Y/N? Were some of those documents classified? Y/N? Is it a crime to hold or store classified documents in an insecure manner? Y/N? Should such crimes be investigated? Y/N?

I do agree that US media is biased, either for corporate Dems ie. MSNBC, CNN (although that might be switching) or corporate Rep ie. Fox, Newsmax. The emphasis on both sides is "corporate". May I suggest looking for a less biased US view from other countries? Someone who does not have a dog in the fight such as the UK or even India?
But please take another look at the policy of voter ID. One side says it is to reduce voter fraud. The other says it is to restrict voting among the poor and minorities.
How much actual voter fraud has there been? Does voter ID restrict voting? In the case of the former, I suggest you do your own research and google how many actual prosecutions there have been in the last 20 years and how many were successful. The latter, I can point out that not everyone has a photo ID. I myself didn't have one for many years. If you are poor, live in the city, commute by public transport and work long hours. Then it's a big ask to take time off work and fill in all the forms just so you can stand in line (often for hours) just to fulfil your civic duty.
Let us apply some common sense here. Assume for one moment you are an illegal immigrant. Just how ready would you be to draw attention to yourself by applying to vote? I don't know about you but on the odd occasions in the past when my car was not strictly legal, I drove like a nun. The very last thing you would do (as an illegal) is to go down to an office and put your head in a noose. Yet you think this is widespread?
Oh, Hunter Biden again. We have already discussed this and seeing as I live on the other side of the pond and still know about it you cannot say it has been successfully covered up.
So just how much airtime has Fox/Newsmax given to Jarrads $500,000,000 from the Saudis? Since I pointed it out to you several weeks ago, how much have you yourself looked into it?

*Recently confessed to by Durham himself.


As a Progressive all I have to look at is which of these 2 men are less likely to take away our benefits and also less likely to start a war. Many people forget that Trump said he was going to start a big overhaul of Social Security once he was re-elected. Had this have happened it would be the same insanity as his healthcare program. GOP today is not into healthcare and most of them don't give a damn about Social Security. Somehow they want to believe that a 401K program started at an early age would provide you the needed benefits. Now that idea is real insanity! A big Trump supporter once told me that he was not concerned with his parents healthcare because his sister took care of all that. Wow! What super planning.


Don't forget also that Biden is basically a decent human being. Trump, on the other hand, is most likely a rapist, and has malignant narcissism. He also possibly, though this has not been proven YET, sold classified information to our enemies.

I also was very disturbed by Biden's behavior toward Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas hearings. I think he regrets that now, although I don't think I will forgive him for that. However, when you add everything up, Biden comes out the clear winner over Trump.

The real prick during the Anita Hill hearing was Arlen Spector. He was the epitome of political opportunists. He almost became mayor of Philadelphia. He lost to Jim Tate. That election WAS probably stolen from him.

@barjoe Wasn’t Arlen primaried by Pat Toomey during the Tea Party movement?

@Organist1 So he barely beat Pat Toomey the first time 2004, then with Tea Party he saw the wing on the wall and switched to Democrat because he thought he'd lose to Pat Toomey. 2010 he got primaried by Joe Sestak and he lost. Toomey barely beat Sestak, that was a heartbreaker.

@barjoe Oh, yes...I remember Joe Sestak. Such a good guy! Do you remember Harris Wofford?

@Organist1 Yep he beat Dick Thornburgh in special election when John Heinz died. Sadly he lost to Rick Santorum. Joe Sestak was a Navy Admiral.

@barjoe Some Pennsylvanians, like many of the rest of Americans, lack even the tiniest amount of common sense.

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