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2

Ten proofs showing it is impossibility of this Holocaust no. of 6 million killed to be real.

  1. The actual number of Jews under German regime never exceeded 4.5 million.
  2. Jewish-stated numbers of Jews in the World before and after the War.
  3. Demographic impossibility phenomenon: number of Jews before and after the War.
  4. Jews emigrated and taking refuge to the Soviet Union.
  5. An empirical-statistical approach.
  6. Number of Jews who applied for survivor pensions.
  7. Retro calculation survivors 1945, based on the number of living survivors in 2004.
  8. Unproven "gas chambers" and "mass gassings”.
  9. Lack of remains, mass graves and ash quantities make ‘Six Million’ implausible.
  10. Ratio of Jews killed in camps/elsewhere.

Sir Winston Churchill: Zionist hero
Jews hold strong views about the man honoured by a new statue in Jerusalem. Churchhill was in the back pocket of Zionist Rothschilds British bankers. Who supplies finances to both side of world war 2 war, and own much of Israel. Still Centro bankers dominate running the world today.

What a lot of people don't realize is that some three times the number of Jews murdered by Hitler were murdered by Stalin of his own people (from 9 to 20 million - many were what were known as "White Russians" - "Whites (Белые, Beliye), was a loose confederation of Anti-Communist forces that fought the Bolsheviks, also known as the Reds, in the Russian Civil War (1917–1922/3) and, to a lesser extent, continued operating as militarized associations both outside and within Russian borders until roughly the Second World War.". Some fought with the Germans against Russia). Yes, the Germans practiced genocide but not all those murdered in the camps were Jews. Many were political prisoners or 'undesirables' (mentally or physically handicapped).

Jews were killed from other countries besides Germany like Poland where the chambers were located and seen by those who liberated them.

@JackPedigo
It's a mixed bag, if I were a smart Jew and they were killing Jews. I would tell them I am not Jewish.

There is a long history with Jewish Russian Then during world war 2 there was over 2 and half million Jews.

In the US there are more jews than in Israel today.

There were more christains and Russian killed for sure. We felt so bad for the Jewish/Zionist people, Winston gave them 5℅ of land in Israel. Then they took over 95℅ of Israel and beat the hell out of the Palestinian. US is their bitch and they have a nuclear launching pads and plans to take over the Middle east. Wolves in sheep clothing.

Bravo! Well said! I believe about a quarter-million Jews died in WW II. Most of these lived in Eastern Europe, Ukraine and Russia. After the German army pushed through these regions many Jews joined guerrilla units behind German lines. The SS often went into newly conquered areas, rounded up the local Jews, took them out to a trench and shot them. It's utter nonsense to believe they rounded up Jews, shipped them hundreds of miles to giant death camps where they were gassed and cremated on an industrial scale, which is the central claim of the Holocaust. So yes, the German SS rounded up and killed about a quarter-million Jews during the war. But six million were not gassed industrially, just like Jews were not turned into soap and lampshades, as was claimed at one time.

You should ask for a refund from the institution whose correspondence class in history you participated in. Also, your lobotomy is a failure.

@Castlepaloma Unfortunately, denying one's Jewish heritage didn't work. Unfortunately, some of the abuses the Jew experienced are being fostered on the Palestinians. I always say, abuse the gift that keeps on giving.

@JackPedigo
About 80℅ of Isreal are Zionist Jews, fake Jews. The other kind of Jews are strongly ethical. Real Jews are not into Nationaism.

@Castlepaloma Cultural Jews represent one of the largest secular groups in the world.

Well that was a blast of hot air. Not a Santa Ana though. More like a brain fart.

@skeptic99 Nazis themselves reported shooting about 1,000,000 Jews in the Soviet Union alone, before the death camps. Where do you get your numbers? Do you just make them up? Where the hell do you get 250,000 from? Wait, I know, you're smarter than everyone else and did the math.

@Castlepaloma There were more than 9 million Jews living in Europe at the time.

just as an example: macedonian jews were captured in their homes, transported to poland & "processed" in concentration camps.

@skeptic99 You can ignore my responses all you want, but the fact is you have no clue what you're talking about. It's probably why you don't respond, because you have no actual relevant responses. You didn't know, or lied about, when Auschwitz opened, and then just to name another issue with your beliefs, in one post you stated you believe that about 250K Jews died in WWII and then stated that you believed "several hundred thousand" or "10 times less" than was actually estimated of Jewish deaths died. You are all over the place. You have no real refutations to any evidence provided by numerous sources throughout the world other than saying that it's propaganda and lies. Your denier brethren have been proven wrong by numerous scholars throughout the world time and time again. What do you base your BELIEFS on when it comes to the Holocaust besides wrong math and lack of evidence?

@Piece2YourPuzzle
History is always changing. A huge shift from European having most Jew population immigrating to America having most jews before, during andd after world war two.

Since Jews own the media and Hollywood. The made up Americas old frontier and cowboys movies based on their own jewish lifestyle in Europe. Why would 6 million Jews being Murdered be any more fiction?. Also the christain NT borrowed from the OT more history fiction from the book of the Jews.

@Piece2YourPuzzle
History is always changing. A huge shift from European having most Jew population immigrating to America having most jews before, during andd after world war two.

Since Jews own the media and Hollywood. The made up Americas old frontier and cowboys movies based on their own jewish lifestyle in Europe. Why would 6 million Jews being Murdered be any more fiction?. Also the christain NT borrowed from the OT more history fiction from the book of the Jews.

@Castlepaloma So that's the logic you base your entire argument on?

@Piece2YourPuzzle I
That was the most major reason in this game of hog posh confusion. Also gave 10 other reason why it is impossible they Murdered 6 million Jews.

@Castlepaloma Lol ok

@Castlepaloma history does not change. Period. What does change is the text books based on lies spread by governments looking to ease their collective conscience. 9 million people were murdered in Nazi concentration camps, jews, gypsys native poles, and homosexuals mostly. That is fact, whether you believe it or not.

@Judyt00
Being a professional in building top history museums display, I'm very keen on the facts. If people want to believe Columbus was the first to discover America or Jesus was blonde and blue eyes, or 6 million Jews were murdered. They are welcome to their delusions.
I want the Facts Jack.

@Castlepaloma facts are that the Nazis murdered 6 million jews, whether you like it or not. I had a history teacher with numbers on his forearm, Ihad neighbours who were afraid to leave their house because other neighbours had a German name. as a PCA I cared for elderly ill people with dementia who relived the horrors of surviving Auschwitz and Baden and Dachau daily for months and years. Do not, EVER, deny the Holocaust!

@
No evidence of facts 6 million Jews Murdered. There are even a few orthodox Rabbi said that fewer that one million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. The Globalist really deeply programed people well to believe otherwise.

I repeat, never denied the Holocaust as many people did suffered traumatically. I could pick out dozens of great genocides throughout human history I would rather display in a museum. Columbus was my hero in school until I told a different story like he was a pirate working for a empire that started North America's European salavery, gold runs , Christians and genocide of natives.
Sorry I can't live a lie. and celebrate Columbus Day.

11

To the doubters of the 6 million, 20 million Russians killed must also be some kind of propaganda, mustn't it? A little math excercise. Consider the fact that during the summer of 1944 within a period of 3 months, 450,000 Hungarian Jews travelled to an Auschwitz holiday on a one-way ticket. That's 5,000 per day only at one location with many others operating at the same time by the Nazis. Apart from the Germans, there were mass killings by the local savages in Ukraine, Belorussia, the Baltics, Croatia, Romania.
To this biomass who calls himself a "humanist" aka Etre, upon liberating one of the deathcamps Gen. Eisenhower warned against your kind by insisting on full documentation of the indescribable facts in front of his very eyes. The Khazar theory has been totally discredited, and Hitler was no Ashkenazi Jew. And yes, there was a Moon landing in August 1969, 9/11 was not a Zionist plot, and the Earth is round, not flat.

@skeptic99 , you are a mendacious liar. Period!

@Trueblueroo Oh, come now, Trueblue. Getting all huffed up and calling someone a "mendacious liar" proves nothing except you are in over your head.

@skeptic99

We all can agree on a round earth.

9

A better headline would be "One-third of Americans unclear on details of Holocaust" but then nobody would click on it. A pollster asks some dope how many died in the Holocaust and the dope says "Uhhhh, I dunno, a million?" Holocaust denial is not sweeping the nation. Ignorance remains steady.

damn it stop being the voice of reason when we want to get mad about something 😉

@engineer_in_nj aka "irrational"?

@FrayedBear no.

8

WOW. Many of the people on this thread make me want to quit this site. Must be trump voters and probably believe in Angels. The education level and or awareness level is astonishing.
Of course this will be denied, because truth is the enemy, but there are films of Eisenhower in liberated camps. I have personally met and spoken with Auschwitz survivors, I guess they and I were on Mushrooms. Been to Dachau and stood ten feet from the ovens, but they must have been Potemkin Ovens. What was I thinking???

I can can Hear George Carlin now, are you XXXXing Stupid???

I never knew anyone that tattooed numbers like that on their arms for fun

@btroje It was also seen as a very major violation of scripture.

So it was not only a way to keep track of people, but to try to make them feel very violated in one more way.

@BufftonBeotch just to have a tattoo of any kind?

@btroje For the most orthodox it possibly was.

8

And a third of Americans believed Sarah Palin was a good choice for a vice president.

Probably the damn same dumb asses.

8

I stood in Dachau
I suggest they do the same and wake the hell up

I have been to Auschwitz and the Holocaust Museum in DC. Very moving, saddening, but so crucial to understand it. My kids (19 and 22 at the time) chose the museum when we were in DC. I was so proud of them.

@HippieChick58 My daughter when visiting sites of historic tragedies is impacted very emotionally.

Ford's theater - Vietnam War memorial - Andersonville

She will go off by herself and weep quietly.

She's also fierce when the need comes though.

@BufftonBeotch Sounds like a success story Mom 🙂

7

The ruling class will always prefer fascism over socialism. That's the scary part.

In this context, it makes sense why alt right sites such as stormfront and Breitbart should exist. They are probably financially supported.

It's likely the real total of Holocaust victims was 20 million. Not 10 million. (All groups.)

And the more one delves into the Holocaust, the more nightmarish it becomes.

Female German officers regular escorted groups of tired children, holding their hands like mothers, to gas chambers to be murdered. This was done at night time to make it less conspicuous. Medical experiments were also carried out on children.

Some Nazi officers stationed at concentration camps had a bit of fun by forcing mothers to choose, on the spot, which of their children lived or died (as featured in the film Sophie's Choice).

The sheer level of cruelty and sadism displayed by the Nazis was psychopathic. It is beyond comprehension.

From the BBC footage of emaciated bodies being bulldozed into pits at Bergen-Belsen to the fear that emanates from the pages of Anne Frank's diary to Primo Levi's account of finding a woman, still alive under a pile of recently gassed prisoners, I am compelled to challenge this scum of the earth called 'Holocaust deniers'.

When I see alt right sites rewrite history as 'conspiracy theory' by blood boils.

@Storybook It mis a sad fact that they do not even teach American history correctly just remember what you were taught about the American Indian. Most likely nothing.

When I saw GW Bush on YouTube say 9/11 could have been an inside job. The State and bankers I trust the least.
Politic Authorities are the most inhumane, intimating, thieving and murdering group on the Planet.

I'm Not a Holocaust denier, just researched facts that tell a different story about 6 million Jews Murdered.

@Storybook
I have a different perspective in life.
Two most important things for happiness is your health and what you can forget.

7

One third of Americans are hard core Trump supporters. See the correlation?

There is ZERO correlation between Trump supporters and those who question the Holocaust. Most Trump supporters are Bible Thumpers who have had it pounded into their skulls by their Baptist preachers that "God will bless them who bless the Jews, and He will curse them who curse the Jews." Thus, most Trump supporters are ardent Christian Zionists who support neo-cons like John Bolton and are all for going to war against Iran, Iraq or anybody else Israel demands.

I naturally assume that most atheists are capable of critical thinking. If one can think their way out of believing in the Bible, they should also be able to understand the false propaganda supporting the absurd claims of the Holocaust. The Holocaust myth is no different than the Book of Exodus or Ruth. Just another Jewish fantasy designed to enable them to get over on the goyim and control them.

@skeptic99 You don't know the Christians in the South. Christians don't like the Jews because they killed Jesus. Evidently you haven't been paying attention. ☺

@Sticks48 I beg to differ. I was born in the South. Other than six years spent in the military I have lived my whole life in the South. I was indoctrinated in a Fundamentalist Baptist church. I know these people VERY well. Many are my family members.

There are few Jews living in the South; as a result, most Southern whites have no personal experience with Jews. The only stuff they think they know about Jews is what their preachers have told them from the Bible. They assume that the ancient Hebrews are just like the Jews living today in the US and Israel. None of these people blame the Jews for Jesus' death. Listen to what preachers like John Hagee are saying. They are indoctrinating southern and mid-western whites into Christian Zionism, which is why the Republican Party is so strongly pro-Israel in its foreign policy. Jerry Falwell spent fifty years indoctrinating his followers to be philo-Semites. Virtually all Evangelicals are like this. Sorry, Sticks, but you are decades behind the times. You believe in a stereotype that disappeared fifty years ago.

@skeptic99. I know what l see and what l hear.

@Sticks48 Do you live in the South, Sticks? I do. I grew up listening to Jerry Falwell. I know what these people are like. A lot of people in the North are familiar with Jews because Jews lie among them. They know them and come to dislike them. There are very few Southern Jews. As I have already pointed out, Southerners think of King David, and Moses and all the stories of the Old Testament when they think of Jews. It's all they have to go on. Southern and Mid-Western Evangelicals have no reason to dislike Jews because they have no personal experience with them.

@skeptic99 So, why do you dislike them? Your figures lie almost as much as you do. Please, go back to whatever fundie hole you crawled out of. This is not a matter of "looking at the evidence" so much as it is selective cherry picking of certain facts to promote your story. I still haven't heard you address the many US GI's that witnessed & liberated the camps. I have spoken to survivors, seen their tattoos, heard the anguish in their voices as they mourned lost family. You demean them & try to lessen the horror that was WWII & fascism! I can see why you voted for tRump, & I think you are disingenuous on your profile page as to why. I think you are birds of a feather!

6

Having been in Germany I only visited Dachau which will make the case. I also met with Americans whom point out informed me that no Jews were executed in Dachau where I posted the Pictures of the Crematorium that was built outside of the Compound that was built by the religious who were told that it was going to be farm house. Also included in the Photos was the wall where they were executed and included the list of those who were executed and for what reasons. Also travelling through Cologne you will see brass plates resembling sidewalk cobble stones that indicate the names of the Family who were taken from these residence and transported to the concentration camp. These cobble stones are mostly in German Cities where the History allows this except for Munich where you have to request it.
If you ever travel to Germany you will have to be very aware of this or else you will not notice it because they are that small.

Dachau was built before the war ever started. It was a prison where political prisoners, opponents of the Nazis, were sent. Communists, extreme liberals, Jews and other anti-Nazi activists were sent to Dachau. IT WAS NOT A DEATH CAMP. Proponents of the Holocaust now admit there were NO DEATH CAMPS ever located inside Germany. Proponents say the death camps were mostly located in Poland, which interestingly fell behind the Iron Curtain after the war so for decades it was impossible to go to any of the sites if you were from the West. Actually, the claimed death camps, like Auschwitz, were actually industrial work camps for the purpose of using slave labor (and local civilian labor) to produce goods for the war and the German military. This is why there were so many survivors from Auschwitz, such as both Elie Wiesel and his sister who were housed at two different "death camps," yet both of them survived both claimed death camps. Actually there were many thousands of survivors from these claimed factories of death. If six million Jews were actually gassed at these camps, then the state of Israel would not exist today, nor would there be so many Jews living in the US and Britain today.

Getting back to Dachau, it's worth noting that the only mass killings that ever took place there was when the US Army took the SS guards at the camp who had surrendered to the Americans and lined them up and machine-gunned them. Those who did not die immediately from the mass shootings were beaten to death with shovels by the Jewish inmates, including their guard dog. This actually happened. A book has been written about the liberation of Dachau and the mass killing of the German guards: "Dachau, Hour of the Avenger."[amazon.com]

6

How was the question framed? Did they say they didn’t believe or did they say they didn’t know? Were those polled asked to select among various figures? It’s a very misleading title.

The article seems to imply that the US is becoming a terribly anti-Jewish place but if you read carefully you learn otherwise. You can not expect young people of today to have much knowledge or interest in events that took place nearly eighty years ago. Life moves on and historical events fade into the background, eclipsed by more recent events.

If Americans almost universally believe that the holocaust occurred, and 93% think the holocaust should be taught in school, then that is enough IMO.

6

And probably most of these people voted for a billionaire, loud-mouthed, non-politician, real estate mogul expecting him to take care of the them. Unfortunately, there are groups that foster these ideas as some sort of conspiracies and, fools like some people are, they fall for this alt truth.

"Alt truth" (a.k.a., a LIE).

6

People forget and history repeats itself.

5

Clean our own house first!

Native American Genocide

"Thus, estimates of the pre-Columbus populations vary wildly, with numbers ranging from approximately 1 million to approximately 18 million in North America alone — and as many as 112 million living in the Western Hemisphere in total.
However large the original population was, by 1900 that number fell to its nadir of just 237,196 in the United States."
(http://allthatsinteresting.com/native-american-genocide)

Hitler greatly admired what European immigrants did in North America, clearing out an inferior people and taking their land to build a great new nation. The history of the US was the inspiration for most of his policies for Germany.

@skeptic99 Is that Hitler speaking or is that you speaking?

@Piece2YourPuzzle

It's true and known fact that Adolf Hitler studied many of the United States’ policies implemented against American Indian people, as models for how he would deal with Jewish people.

@Castlepaloma That's not my contention. Maybe you didn't "catch" the meaning of his words of which I replied. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

@Piece2YourPuzzle
I hope you are wrong, about what skeptic meant.

@CallMeDave I probably am. I shouldn't read into that statement like I did. I would ask him if he meant anything by it, but he doesn't seem to respond. Actually, I did ask him already.

5

Seeing the pics and videos and recounting the experiences of the people who were in those camps, I am inclined to believe it happened. The number of mass graves shown, and the efficiency of huge gas chambers that could hold hundreds if not thousands of people at a time, as well as the cremation processes lead me to believe that it could definitely happen as it has been described.

I do believe though that there have been other atrocities on grander scales, but an atrocity is an atrocity. A death at the hands of "mad people" is still a death. The people who suffered, and continue to suffer from the loss of life in these situations aren't any more comforted just because more people died in another atrocity.

This is typical. All the evidence you claim you have seen -- you have not seen. You have seen pictures of trivial things along with descriptions that suggest other things on a much grander scale. Once you really look at the evidence and engage your brain and ask basic questions, the Holocaust claims quickly fall apart.

@skeptic99 You can say that about most of history.

@PalacinkyPDX I never said it wasn't unique in history. I was just simply responding to the claims that there were "worse" atrocities.

@Piece2YourPuzzle

Yeah, like black salavery and native Americas genocide.

5

Isn't that just pathetic? Unfortunately it's right in line with their rejection of climate science and evolutionary biology. Many of these same people do believe in literal interpretations of the Bible, however. And that is probably the key to understanding their ignorance.

@skeptic99
Your assertion that "the foundational material supporting the holocaust comes from fictional accounts" is patently false and ridiculous. There are the testimonials of the survivors of the concentration camps, as well as those of the soldiers who liberated the camps. These are supported by films that were shot at the time. There are the artifacts, including written records and the camps themselves. The Germans (and Poles, and Hungarians, Armenians, Yuguslavians, and French, Begians, etc) were excellent records-keepers, and their own census data shows there were more than 6 million Jews in Europe before the holocaust.
By the way, to say you believe in climate science and evolutionary biology does not increase your credibility. Scientific facts are not things to be believed or disbelieved. Rather, the supporting evidence is to to be coldly assessed and either accepted or rejected based on its repeatability and logical cohesion. If the evidence stands up to scrutiny, then the conclusion it points to is accepted, always leaving the door open to modification if new evidence is brought to light. Emotion, belief, desire, caprice, and ideology have no place in either assessment of the evidence or analysis of the conclusion.
The emotion with which you write, together with your rejection of voluminous well-documented evidence leads me to suspect that you base your conclusions on ideology (conspiracy theory?) rather than facts. It sounds like you are looking for someone to blame the ills of the world (or your own misfortune?) on, and you have settled on a familiar old trope. Instead of wasting everyone's time with this nonsense, why don't you tell us what is really bothering you?

@Flyingsaucesir Well, Flyingsaucesir, I did not start this thread. HippieChick58 did. So the subject was not bothering me or on my mind. However, HippieChick 58 tossed it out there as a brief statement, a tactic it seems, to diss anyone who is not a conformist on this issue. It reminds me of Christians who say stuff like, "Jesus is REAL. Ain't it that a third of the people don't believe in Him?" I've looked at the evidence presented from both sides of this issue, and honestly, the arguments of the Christians, such as Creationists, are more convincing than those of the Holocaust promoters. Three things are going for the Holocaust story: 1. The story serves the interests of the establishment; 2. which results in massive group think; and 3. in most of the Western nations it is illegal to question any of the claimed truths about the Holocaust. So I get it that the majority of people believe in the Holocaust story. I'm surprised that a third of the people have doubts about it.

Regarding the evidence of the Holocaust, as I've pointed out already, the claims that were once made to support it years ago have been abandoned. Regarding Jewish global population figures over time, all the data I can find comes from Jewish sources, often directly from or cited from places like the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC or other organizations linked with the Holocaust. Data published in periodicals like Time Magazine cite the same sources. Pew Research has some numbers, almost all of which were based upon estimates and upon Jewish sources. One thing I did notice was there really were not that many Jews living in Germany, France and the rest of Western Europe at the start of the war. Most Jews fled Germany during the 1930s before the war started. The overwhelming majority of Europe's Jews lived in Poland, the rest of Eastern Europe and the USSR. The one issue that always sticks in my mind are the thousands and thousands of Jews who SURVIVED the Holocaust, who spent time at Auschwitz and other camps in Eastern Europe and who survived the ordeal and left Europe after the war and came to the US or Israel. If there was a methodical German industry devoted to the industrialized extermination of Jews, it was terribly inefficient.

@skeptic99 very well said. Stand by to be labelled a denyer, racist and nazi for stating some facts. I thought this site was for critical thinkers, maybe I was wrong.

@skeptic99, @TheMiddleWay I don't believe anyone is denying atrocities happened in the camps, but the scale is the question.

@TheMiddleWay Well, you're right there, a death camp is a death camp regardless of how many died.

5

Consider how many believe the earth is flat. In 2018. 499 years AFTER Magellan sailed AROUND the damn thing (and there was proof it was a sphere LONG before that)

And you're surprised in a country where the Nazis are making a sustained comeback would doubt the Holocaust?

Ozman Level 7 July 3, 2018

Aren't there roomfuls of hair and sh-t?

I remember seeing people with a numbered on their arm as a kid.

I think very few survivors could exist to give testimony anymore. They'd have to have been very children at this point.

@BufftonBeotch I've been to Auschwitz. It's very sobering.

The problem is, the religious nutjobs who deny the Holocaust have likely never been out of their state of birth, much less travelled overseas.

They also support Israel not because of any altruistic streak or kinship with those of the Jewish faith (many of the racists hate Jews as much as non-whites), but simply because Armageddon won't happen (along with the Rapture) unless and until Israel rebuilds Temple Mount.

Hell of a way to run a foreign policy.

4

Appalling statistic. I wonder if that survey was taken at Fox News.

4

They shouldn't do those surveys in preschools and psych hospitals.

4

... and climate change is a chinese hoax... according to djt...

Tomas Level 7 July 4, 2018
4

The number needs to be expanded to all the people killed in all the countries in WW2. I totally believe in the 6 million Jews. THe horror of the thinking that supported that crime had ripples that everyone needs to know and understand

True. It was millions of others. Many more millions. Anyone sen as genetically inferior such as Down syndrome or many other things.

The brain washing was so deep that I understand many parents just handed over children deemed inferior to be killed on the spot.

Which is something I can not comprehend. The madness the can seize people's minds.

How can you love an idea of a shrieking madman more than your own child?

And I think Soviet citizens were in equal number to the Jewish people.

Slovaks----Romanians----homosexuals. Lots of others.

3

I can't forget that 20 million Russians also suffered a similar fate but they don't keep reminding us of their inhumane treatment.

3

I can't comprehend that.

3

I find that difficult to believe. Ten percent of pathological racists, maybe, and ignorant young people, . But, more than that?

I'm afraid you underestimate greatly 😟

2

The is the same percent as those that believe Trump's nonsense. Not and accident.

Mokvon Level 8 July 19, 2018
2

About 11 million people in total were killed, not just six million. Gypsies died at a higher percentage than Jews did because they were more marginalized.

2

For anyone interested in ACTUAL history:

[phdn.org]

This one disputes deniers in regards to Auschwitz and fuel for the ovens etc etc etc:

[phdn.org]

[hdot.org]

All the ovens were obviously for the Germans to be good hosts and have enough space to cook all those hamburgers and filet mignon steaks that they offered their guests with their 5 star accommodation.

@Piece2YourPuzzle what the ovens were used for is not in dispute, just the scale of the cremations. I believe it takes around 5 hours per corpse so one oven can only dispose of a maximum 5 corpses per day. There would have to be 657 ovens running continuously, 24/7/365 for 5 years to cremate 6m corpses. Even if half were buried, I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that it's open to question. Also could a country at war dedicate such fuel resources for body disposal?

@smoyle I don't deny that Nazi ideology had a goal of pushing a large percentage of the population of Poland and the lands east of it off that land, by whatever means could be employed. We are talking about an area where most of the world's Jews lived in the Pale of Settlement. I've done additional reading on the subject. Nazi SS units no doubt rounded up Jews in rural villages and shot them where they found them. The problem was that the majority of Jews lived in Polish cities. After the German conquest of the western half of Poland these urban Jews were pushed into confined ghettos. Many died of disease and starvation before they were ever removed. Others were sent to work camps, and some were probably sent to small temporary camps to be liquidated. How many people were killed this way is impossible to say with certainty. The German SS units probably demolished these sites before leaving the area. Then the area fell under the control of the Soviet Union for the next fifty years. Auschwitz was such a large facility that it remained largely intact; however, much of what we see in many of these camps was rebuilt later by the Soviets or the Polish government. There is a high likelihood that any crematory ovens or gas chambers one might visit today did not exist in 1943 and were not built by the Nazis. These places are much like museums are today. They represent recreations and approximations of what might have been used by the Nazis. There is simply so much about the Holocaust that we do not know. We may think we know, but finding the evidence to prove it 75 years later is the problem.

My issue with the Holocaust is that regardless of the actual extent of the killing, it has been packaged and marketed so shamelessly in recent decades. There have been obvious purposes to this. One is to provide a justification for Zionism and an excuse for Jews today doing similar things to Palestinians that Nazis did to Jews 75 years ago. The Holocaust industry is designed to create great sympathy for Jews from Americans and Europeans. And by using guilt it has been used to extort billions of dollars in reparations from Germany that have gone to the state of Israel and to millions of individual Jews. The Holocaust also has been used as a justification for massive financial support for Israel from the United States. This marketing of the Holocaust, this Holocaust "hustling" is what I find so offensive. According to Wikipedia ( One-Third of Americans Don't Believe 6 Million Jews Were Murdered During the Holocaust ) six-million Poles died in the war. Eight million Germans died in the war. 20 million Soviets died in the war. The US lost over 400,000 soldiers just in the war in Europe. So even if six million Jews did lose their lives in WW II, they were not the only people who died. But clearly they were the only people who mattered. 20 million dead Soviets don't seem to matter. Eight million dead Germans don't matter. Six million dead Poles don't seem to matter. And there seems to be little anguish about the 400,000 dead US soldiers. There is no thought or remembrance for any of these millions, not to mention the dead in all the other nations of Europe. There is just this focus and obsession on the six-million dead Jews. This is what rubs my fur the wrong way. Everyone else licks their wounds, and the survivors get on with life. Nobody else grand-stands and dramatizes their losses, their injustices, their suffering. But the Holocaust has become the defining event in all of human history for Jews, and they are using it for massive propaganda effect and advantage. Because I know I am clearly being manipulated by the Holocaust, it has generated resentment instead of sympathy. I never like to be played for a fool, and that is the effect the massive Holocaust propaganda campaign has on me... and I suspect on many other people, too. This hand has been greatly over played. That is the real issue with the Holocaust.

@smoyle Everything is answered in the links.

@skeptic99 QUOTE: "There is a high likelihood that any crematory ovens or gas chambers one might visit today did not exist in 1943 and were not built by the Nazis."

What the hell are you talking about?

QUOTE: "My issue with the Holocaust is that regardless of the actual extent of the killing, it has been packaged and marketed so shamelessly in recent decades. There have been obvious purposes to this. One is to provide a justification for Zionism and an excuse for Jews today doing similar things to Palestinians that Nazis did to Jews 75 years ago."

Regardless of the actual extent of the killing? Isn't that most of your argument? Lol

Packaged and marketed so shamelessly? Wow! Jews don't need an excuse to do what they do to Palestinians. They would do it regardless. Besides, they haven't murdered 6 million Palestinians in death camps. Although I do find both sides pretty disturbing with what is going on in the Middle East. I don't know which side is worse or who is more to blame though. It's not that simple.

How can anyone take your word for anything when you get simple dates of when Auschwitz was built and opened wrong? Denying there were any gas chambers or crematory ovens back in the 1940s and that the Germans didn't have them built is delusional. MOST OF THE WORLD has agreed these things happened and have verified them!!!

QUOTE: "The Holocaust industry is designed to create great sympathy for Jews from Americans and Europeans. And by using guilt it has been used to extort billions of dollars in reparations from Germany that have gone to the state of Israel and to millions of individual Jews. The Holocaust also has been used as a justification for massive financial support for Israel from the United States."

MASSIVE financial support from the U.S.? The U.S. gives Israel about $4-8b a year if I remember correctly, but Israel buys American goods and services. The U.S. wipes their ass with that amount of money compared to the total military and social programs budget we have. Reparations from Germany last as long as the last survivor. I think it's fair. Native Americans have also been paid reparations. Maybe there should also even be a one time reparation payment to African Americans. I'm not sure as I don't know the subject much deeper than an initial reading and analysis.

They also have military friggin' parades to remember the Soviet soldiers that died fighting the Nazis. I don't know where you get the Jews are the only ones that mattered in this issue. American soldiers are praised ad-nauseum in America. There are also remembrances and memorials for the Poles who lost their lives.

You are free to have your opinions though.

@smoyle they gassed people, and cremated the bodies by the hundreds at a time. I knew people who survived dachau.

@Judyt00 How did they cremate hundreds of bodies at a time? I don't think it's possible. Show me any evidence of a device that could do this.

@smoyle How about you start with the links I provided. You obviously don't care about "evidence" now do you?

@Piece2YourPuzzle OK, firstly let me reiterate my position, I am not a denier but I do question the numbers claimed. Up until now, nobody has shown any conclusive proof of these numbers. For the record, I don't count first hand reports of survivors necessarily as proof. The reason being, imagine the hell it was in those camps, how could you possibly come out with any accurate information. All I have seen is "He says this" or "They heard that". What makes it worse are false claims by people ignorant of the facts (like me) trying to enforce their beliefs of what happened (there's a term for that which escapes me for now). So I've read some (not all) of your links and there is the one letter from the oven manufacturer which indicates the numbers might be correct, so this would seem to be the evidence I asked for, you are the only person to supply ANY evidence. However, I'm not going to say "I read it on the internet so it must be true". I'm not going to research into this subject any further so you have the benefit of the doubt (and you have pried open a crack in my mind that it might have been possible which I will be mindful of if I ever get into this subject again).

@smoyle If you read about it and know what it says in the evidence I provided then why would you ask Judyt00 for evidence like you had none? Even the Nazis reported putting anywhere from 1 to 8 bodies in an oven at a time, but normally around 4 to 5 at a time. This is all depending on the size of the bodies including women, children, and men. They also had open fire pits outside. I don't know why this is so hard to understand for deniers. Denier is a broad term that includes outright deniers AND people who severely underestimate the numbers reported.

@Piece2YourPuzzle I replied to her post before I followed your links.

As for "Denier is a broad term that includes outright deniers AND people who severely underestimate the numbers reported" - who the hell are you to tell me what I deny and don't deny? A denier is someone who denies something - what ever that thing is and I don't deny a great many people were murdered, I don't think anybody does. You can't just re define a word because you want to insult those who question the numbers.

@smoyle So you replied to other comments and kept asking for evidence before you looked at my links presenting evidence A WEEK AGO? Lol

The term holocaust denier wasn't penned by ME, and it wasn't penned yesterday either. So your gripe about the definition isn't with me. Do you read comments at all? You are claiming that you don't think anybody denies that a "great many people were murdered", yet the person you have been conversing with claims he only thinks 250,000 - 600,000 Jews were murdered during WWII. Is that qualified as "anybody", and does that qualify as "a great many people"?

Like I said, the definition of holocaust denier isn't MY definition:

[slate.com]

[holocaustremembrance.com]

[adl.org]

[ushmm.org]

[en.wikipedia.org]

[rationalwiki.org]

[thelocal.de]

Maybe I'll come back in about a week when you read the definition in those links lol

@Piece2YourPuzzle Whatever dude, whatever. This conversation is going nowhere, I'm out.

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