xyz123, do not corrupt this thread with your ridiculous assertion of Stalin murdering 20 million Jews! The world's Jewish population never exceeded 15 million. And that's global, not just Russian.

No that is the one third who are deniers of anything that challenges their comfort zone. They have no critical thinking skills, because thinking can be uncomfortable.

@HippieChick58 That must include also all the Jews who fail to recognise the far greater proportional genocide perpetrated against the Roma and Sinti people during the same period. I also find it curious that little is said of the numbers of Jews as a result of the Russian Revolution but perhaps that is because that conflict had Jewish connections. But so did WWII if you trace who was doing the financing.
It appears that there is uncertainty as to whether there were about 4 million or 6 million Jews killed. It seems that any non Jew who points this out is a holocaust denier. Jews who say the same thing
however are not so decried. Information courtesy [haaretz.com]
In comparison to the iconic 6 million figure for Jews however must be compared the 90,000 to 1,500,000 Roma or Gypsies and the 38,000,000 to 55,000,000 million civilians killed around the world.
Applying Professor Cippolla's laws of stupidity it becomes obvious that to maintain the outrage against Jewish victims but not the rest of the victims on an equal footing only identifies one thing about Jews and their supporters.
I remind everyone that of the Samaritan people only about 800 remain worldwide after thousands of years. ... Now that is what I see as genocide and something to be shouted from the roof tops.
Equally there are many First Nations People around the world who no longer exist. One being the people of St Kilda who no longer exist because of wars against German aggression.
If all that was spent on perpetuating Jewish holocaust iconography was instead spent on celebrating the survival of the Jewish tribes and achievements of individual Jews then I have little doubt that one hundred percent of the American peoples would recognise the reason for it and the pride in their ethnicity.
But of course I am not Jewish nor consider myself better or more noteworthy than anyone else. I am an agnostic.

It does not require "critical thinking" to acknowledge historic FACT.
You are so incredibly full of shit to even try to get by with garbage.
I defy you to tell any concentration camp survivor that it didn't happen.
You really need to leave this site. Go. Now. You are not welcome here.

@KKGator is your remark directed at me,@Skeptic99 or @HippieChick? Skeptic has merely passed opinion on the one third of Americans questioning the numbers killed. In this post he makes no mention of holocaust, victims or even numbers. His only reference is rephrasing of the commencing statement's reference to Americans. It is inadequately specific here for your observation and conclusion to hold anything other than Pavlovian like response caused by your beliefs.

What a lot of people don't realize is that some three times the number of Jews murdered by Hitler were murdered by Stalin of his own people (from 9 to 20 million - many were what were known as "White Russians" - "Whites (Белые, Beliye), was a loose confederation of Anti-Communist forces that fought the Bolsheviks, also known as the Reds, in the Russian Civil War (1917–1922/3) and, to a lesser extent, continued operating as militarized associations both outside and within Russian borders until roughly the Second World War.". Some fought with the Germans against Russia). Yes, the Germans practiced genocide but not all those murdered in the camps were Jews. Many were political prisoners or 'undesirables' (mentally or physically handicapped).

Jews were killed from other countries besides Germany like Poland where the chambers were located and seen by those who liberated them.

@JackPedigo
It's a mixed bag, if I were a smart Jew and they were killing Jews. I would tell them I am not Jewish.

There is a long history with Jewish Russian Then during world war 2 there was over 2 and half million Jews.

In the US there are more jews than in Israel today.

There were more christains and Russian killed for sure. We felt so bad for the Jewish/Zionist people, Winston gave them 5℅ of land in Israel. Then they took over 95℅ of Israel and beat the hell out of the Palestinian. US is their bitch and they have a nuclear launching pads and plans to take over the Middle east. Wolves in sheep clothing.

Bravo! Well said! I believe about a quarter-million Jews died in WW II. Most of these lived in Eastern Europe, Ukraine and Russia. After the German army pushed through these regions many Jews joined guerrilla units behind German lines. The SS often went into newly conquered areas, rounded up the local Jews, took them out to a trench and shot them. It's utter nonsense to believe they rounded up Jews, shipped them hundreds of miles to giant death camps where they were gassed and cremated on an industrial scale, which is the central claim of the Holocaust. So yes, the German SS rounded up and killed about a quarter-million Jews during the war. But six million were not gassed industrially, just like Jews were not turned into soap and lampshades, as was claimed at one time.

You should ask for a refund from the institution whose correspondence class in history you participated in. Also, your lobotomy is a failure.

@Castlepaloma Unfortunately, denying one's Jewish heritage didn't work. Unfortunately, some of the abuses the Jew experienced are being fostered on the Palestinians. I always say, abuse the gift that keeps on giving.

@JackPedigo
About 80℅ of Isreal are Zionist Jews, fake Jews. The other kind of Jews are strongly ethical. Real Jews are not into Nationaism.

@Castlepaloma Cultural Jews represent one of the largest secular groups in the world.

Well that was a blast of hot air. Not a Santa Ana though. More like a brain fart.

@skeptic99 Nazis themselves reported shooting about 1,000,000 Jews in the Soviet Union alone, before the death camps. Where do you get your numbers? Do you just make them up? Where the hell do you get 250,000 from? Wait, I know, you're smarter than everyone else and did the math.

@Castlepaloma There were more than 9 million Jews living in Europe at the time.

just as an example: macedonian jews were captured in their homes, transported to poland & "processed" in concentration camps.

@skeptic99 You can ignore my responses all you want, but the fact is you have no clue what you're talking about. It's probably why you don't respond, because you have no actual relevant responses. You didn't know, or lied about, when Auschwitz opened, and then just to name another issue with your beliefs, in one post you stated you believe that about 250K Jews died in WWII and then stated that you believed "several hundred thousand" or "10 times less" than was actually estimated of Jewish deaths died. You are all over the place. You have no real refutations to any evidence provided by numerous sources throughout the world other than saying that it's propaganda and lies. Your denier brethren have been proven wrong by numerous scholars throughout the world time and time again. What do you base your BELIEFS on when it comes to the Holocaust besides wrong math and lack of evidence?

@Piece2YourPuzzle
History is always changing. A huge shift from European having most Jew population immigrating to America having most jews before, during andd after world war two.

Since Jews own the media and Hollywood. The made up Americas old frontier and cowboys movies based on their own jewish lifestyle in Europe. Why would 6 million Jews being Murdered be any more fiction?. Also the christain NT borrowed from the OT more history fiction from the book of the Jews.

@Piece2YourPuzzle
History is always changing. A huge shift from European having most Jew population immigrating to America having most jews before, during andd after world war two.

Since Jews own the media and Hollywood. The made up Americas old frontier and cowboys movies based on their own jewish lifestyle in Europe. Why would 6 million Jews being Murdered be any more fiction?. Also the christain NT borrowed from the OT more history fiction from the book of the Jews.

@Castlepaloma So that's the logic you base your entire argument on?

@Piece2YourPuzzle I
That was the most major reason in this game of hog posh confusion. Also gave 10 other reason why it is impossible they Murdered 6 million Jews.

@Castlepaloma Lol ok

@Castlepaloma history does not change. Period. What does change is the text books based on lies spread by governments looking to ease their collective conscience. 9 million people were murdered in Nazi concentration camps, jews, gypsys native poles, and homosexuals mostly. That is fact, whether you believe it or not.

@Judyt00
Being a professional in building top history museums display, I'm very keen on the facts. If people want to believe Columbus was the first to discover America or Jesus was blonde and blue eyes, or 6 million Jews were murdered. They are welcome to their delusions.
I want the Facts Jack.

@Castlepaloma facts are that the Nazis murdered 6 million jews, whether you like it or not. I had a history teacher with numbers on his forearm, Ihad neighbours who were afraid to leave their house because other neighbours had a German name. as a PCA I cared for elderly ill people with dementia who relived the horrors of surviving Auschwitz and Baden and Dachau daily for months and years. Do not, EVER, deny the Holocaust!

@
No evidence of facts 6 million Jews Murdered. There are even a few orthodox Rabbi said that fewer that one million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. The Globalist really deeply programed people well to believe otherwise.

I repeat, never denied the Holocaust as many people did suffered traumatically. I could pick out dozens of great genocides throughout human history I would rather display in a museum. Columbus was my hero in school until I told a different story like he was a pirate working for a empire that started North America's European salavery, gold runs , Christians and genocide of natives.
Sorry I can't live a lie. and celebrate Columbus Day.

That's why some people do not believe the numbers. How can they dispose of 3000 bodies every day for 6 years? How many camps were there?

@smoyle there were plenty of concentration camps. There were also extermination camps, prepared with facilities and resources to expedite executions. I want to emphasize that I am not discussing if six million were killed or not. Whatever the number is, it is one too many. I am only saying that the amount of work required to reach such numbers seems incredible formidable, even if that would have been the only thing they had to do. Which it was clearly not. I understand this is a sensitive subject. Trying to understand the logistics and implication to execute a task of such magnitude requires analysis.

You sound like an empty headed Holocaust denier.

Do the research on Auschwitz. It was an industrial scale killing factory. It was huge and run with typical German precision.

@smoyle "Between 1933 and 1945, Nazi Germany and its allies established more than 40,000 camps and other incarceration sites. The perpetrators used these sites for a range of purposes, including forced labor, detention of people thought to be enemies of the state, and mass murder. The total number of sites is based upon ongoing research in the perpetrators' own records."

Not all were death camps, first they slaved ya to death, allowed disease to get ya, or medical experiments.

It was an industry. No one doubts how many cars Detroit can, or could turn out in a day. In WW2 the US turned out a liberty ship daily, not to mention all the tanks, jeeps, planes and lorries.
Genocide has happened before and since. Sadly it will probably happen again. What sickens us most about the holocaust is the shear industrial efficiency of it.

@273kelvin that's exactly my point, it must have been industrial efficiency.

@IamNobody Now I'm not a denier or confirmer, and I know very little on the subject, it just seems impossible for it to have been done.

There are people who have tried to calculate the actual number (if 6,000,000 is propaganda) based on cremation time. An example is here: [ihr.org]. Don't forget the amount of fuel (sorry to be insensitive by the way) it would have taken for the (horrendous) task.

Just to confirm, I'm not suggesting atrocities were not committed. I've just learned not to trust our present government and media, and it's looking like the past governments and media weren't much better.

@Davesnothere I'm not going to argue with that, you're probably right, I know too little on the subject.

@smoyle The reality of the situation must have been really harsh, as you mentioned the fuel implications as an example. It is a dark passage in the world history, however as painful and horrible it was, that should not prevent or deter anyone from making rational analysis. It is still taboo of sorts and I have been called already "empty headed Holocaust denier" only because I am thinking about logistics and numbers. I am not German, I am not Jew. I have not interest whatsoever to deny anything, but that cannot stop me from trying to make an analysis. Perhaps a better question(s) than pointing fingers to one third of Americans is the fact that 3000 were killed day in day out and if it is actually true, why no one did anything about it? Some answers have been "The world didn't know".. seriously, how do you hide such operation. I think the world knew very well and choosed to look the other way because they knew there was a chance some of them will have to pick the tab after the war. Taking 6 million refugees is not a trivial bussines. Another interesting fact, if we keep dwelling on it, the story is always written by the conqueror. Anyway, my point all along has been, this issue as painful as it is should be fully discussed. It's just to easy to accept all facts and condem the ones willing to rationalize it.

@smoyle "There are people who have tried to calculate the actual number (if 6,000,000 is propaganda) based on cremation time"
That is a very inept math set to use to do a calculation, FEW were cremated at first, although that became the stadard practice in certain death camps. Many more were buried in mass graves.

You are far too generous with your statistical analysis. Even the proponents of the Holocaust admit that Auschwitz was not constructed until late 1941, and it was abandoned by the Germans in late 1944 as the Red Army pushed toward Germany in the closing months of the war. Holocaust proponents claim that the first mass killings began in early 1942 and ended in late 1944 -- so just three years. So double all your monthly figures. By the summer of 1944 Allied strategic bombing was rapidly destroying Germany's industrial capacity, including its supply of oil. Much of the rail system was also destroyed. Germans could not get fuel to supply their remaining fighter planes to go up and oppose American bombers. They often did not have the fuel for their Panzer tanks. And we are to believe during this time they were using precious fuel to cremate Jews on an industrial scale? There was starvation in most of these concentration camps when the allies liberated them because there was little food left and no way to get it to the camps. The material situation in Germany in the last year of the war was actually worse than it was in the South in the closing months of the Civil War. But yet we are to believe the Germans were gassing and cremating tens of thousands of Jews each day. This is especially hard to believe when there is no infrastructure at Auschwtiz or any other camp to support such a process, nor any forensic evidence left behind to prove such numbers.

@PalacinkyPDX Absolutely, and a part of my reasoning against someone calculating death totals based on cremation times, wholly inadequate to the task.

@PalacinkyPDX, @skeptic99 "In Auschwitz-Birkenau, the authorities had no respect for the dead and did not abide by civilian rules of cremation. They burned multiple bodies at once and the process was continuous. It is a false comparison to equate the cremations at Auschwitz-Birkenau with civilian crematoria. "

"In Auschwitz-Birkenau, Nazi camp authorities were not burdened by respect for the dead or any need to consider civilian rules regarding cremation. The ovens were filled with as many bodies as could be fit into them. For instance, the men in the Sonderkommandos were instructed to combine the bodies of fat people, skeletal ‘Muselmänner,’ and children. This was done to burn the most bodies in the least amount of time; they put the bodies in the ovens continuously. The result was very high efficiency: very little fuel was needed to keep the process going for hours or days. Testimony suggests that the ovens were used continuously. Henryk Mandelbaum, a Sonderkommando at Auschwitz-Birkenau, testified as such: “. . . the crematorium [worked] full steam and each shift stayed there until the next Kommando came to work.”

"Comparing the civilian cremation process to the process at Auschwitz-Birkenau is a misguided. The authorities in Auschwitz-Birkenau abandoned any respect for the dead and did not abide by civilian rules for cremation. They burned multiple bodies at one time, continuously pushing in more to keep the fires hot. The crematoria ovens at Auschwitz-Birkenau certainly cremated many more bodies than the 85,092 figure Fred Leuchter calculated.

Further, the issue is ultimately irrelevant; when the ovens’ daily capacities were exceeded, bodies were burned in open-air pits."

[hdot.org]

@273kelvin, @Davesnothere If there were millions of corpses buried in mass graves, these would be easily found. Why have they NOT been found. The ten-thousand murdered Polish officers and intellectuals who were shot by the Jewish-Bolshevik communists and buried in a mass grave in the Katyn Forest were quickly found and the bodies exhumed by the German Army. If they could find a mass grave with ten thousand dead, why has nobody found the missing bodies of the buried six million Jews, now that we have established that it would have been physically impossible to cremate that many bodies in three years time with the tiny facilities that existed at Auschwitz and the other "death camps."

@skeptic99 They have been found. over and over again.

Here is the question which bothers me.

If you are not a holocaust denier, why say things like
"Now I'm not a denier or confirmer, and I know very little on the subject, it just seems impossible for it to have been done."
???

Or bring up cremation times and question the vast evidence of mass graves

Yet, never bother to google it yourself, or watch the deep list of documentaries on Netflicks on this very topic, or go to the Library, Mueseum or talk to survivors while they are still around?

All of this data is easily accessable and takes seconds nowadays, but a few of you seem really quick to question the data, and utterly inactive on the question of resolving your boggles.

Now why is that I wonder?
Could it be that you are more comfortable with it being wrong, and humans not capable of industrial slaughter of other humans, even though we do it to all other species?

You may think your not a denier, but you sound like a flat Earther on this topic.

[bbc.com]

@skeptic99 Oh yeah you must be right because where are all the corpses of those native americans that were slaughtered by the settlers? It must mean there was hardly anyone there before you guys moved in.
Do the maths, look at the jewish population before and after. Where do you think they all went? Talk to any jewish family (go on force yourself). You will discover how many of their relatives that were lost. My uncle was there when we discovered Bergen-Belsen. The things that he told me lived with him all his life. That was not a "death camp" like Auschwitz yet they killed 50,000.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see where your coming from. "Jewish-Bolshevik" was a clue. Not withstanding the longstanding animosity Russia had to Poland anyway shown to great extent by the delay in liberating Warsaw.
Dont take my word for it. Listen to a republican.

@Davesnothere Dave, you throw out an incredible number: 40,000 concentration and death camps run by the Nazis. Let's agree that some camps would be a lot bigger than others, but for the sake of compromise let's assume each camp had guards or staff working them. Most US prisons today have staff's of about 500 for each 800 inmates. But we will assume the Germans were super efficient and did not need nearly so a ratio. We leave it at . Multiply by 40,000 and you get 4,000,000. That's four million people doing nothing but running concentration camps! At the start of the war the German army had 3.7 million men. At its peak in 1943 the German Army had 6.5 million men. And they were losing the war. Do you really believe they had the capacity to run 40,000 concentration camps with skeleton crews of men each = 4 million men? Makes no sense, and if this were true it would indicate they lost the war.

@Davesnothere, @273kelvin The Jewish population before WW II and after the war was pretty much the same. This is one of the arguments against the six-million number. Before the war ever started Jewish writers were predicting six million Jews would die if Britain and the US did not go to war against Hitler. This number -- six million -- was a propaganda number pulled out of somebody's ass. I've already said I believe about a quarter-million Jews died in the war, mostly on the Eastern Front by SS units and ethnic militias fighting with the Germans. But the rest of the claims remind me of the incredible stories of the Old Testament, especially like the stories from Exodus where Moses brought down plagues on the Egyptians, the Red Sea parted, mannah from heaven, and on and on. Simple minded people believe this nonsense. Simple-minded people believe the wild stories about the Holocaust. It's the same crap from the same people. Do you also believe the stories about Nazis making lamp shades from Jewish skin and soap from Jewish fat?

@skeptic99 YOU ARE A HOLOCAUST DENIER

[cnn.com]

"The Jewish population before WW II and after the war was pretty much the same."

"When the Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, Jews were living in every country of Europe. A total of roughly nine million Jews lived in the countries that would be occupied by Germany during World War II. By the end of the war, two out of every three of these Jews would be dead, and European Jewish life would be changed forever."

incidentally, I am sure the 40,000 numer includes all the temp camps they have found evidence of, which were all over.

Do me a favor and go meet a few survivors. To this old vet you are calling vast swaths of our troops liars.

@273kelvin, @Davesnothere You know, Dave, I have looked the data and the evidence presented by both sides on this issue. I see a steady retreat on the claims by the Holocaust promoters because they are losing the debate. For example, it was originally claimed that Jews were gassed and murdered in death camps in Germany. Now everyone agrees there were no death camps in Germany. These were all essentially prisons, just like we have here with our prison-industrial complex in the US. At one time it was claimed over four million Jews died at Auschwitiz. That claim has been reduced to about one million now, with the rest of the dead Jews having been gassed at camps that once existed in eastern Europe but were destroyed long ago. In the early years after the war pictures of shrunken Jewish skulls, claimed to sit on Nazi leaders' desks, and lamp shades made of Jewish skin were shown. Also I have seen pictures of bars of soap that were alleged to be made from the fat of murdered Jews by the Nazis. All this stuff was claimed in the early years after the war to justify what the British and the Americans did: UTTERLY DESTROY EUROPE AND KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Now it is admitted that all this stuff was bogus, not true, but simple-minded people believed it after the war. And yet the Jews refuse to come off that magic number of six million. There is simply no physical evidence to support it. This is obvious. I've looked at their evidence. Yes, Jews were persecuted and killed by the Nazis, but masterful story-tellers that they are, the Jews just could not resist blowing this thing up into an insane dimension. The evidence to support the six million number is eroding; in fact, it was never there to begin with. This is I place the Holocaust as a myth, a contemporary legend that is the latest addition to the of Judaism. It's something one must take on faith and faith alone.

The Holocaust is a powerful idea built upon hate, and once it is accepted then logically it gives Jews ultimate leverage over any political or social issue that confronts them, and also gives them the trump card to prevail in any debate. It's just like saying you believe in the tenets of a (like God and Satan, heaven and hell). Once you accept these things as valid then you are trapped by the people who wield these ideas. It is the same with the Holocaust idea. Once you accept the claim as valid, then you must accept fighting endless wars for Israel and even thousands of dead Palestinian children are of no consequence.

@Davesnothere Your post regarding the Jewish explanation of how the Nazis were able to burn thousands of bodies per day in four simple cremation ovens that existed at Auschwitz is exactly what I am talking about when I point out how obviously preposterous these claims become. Let's agree that after the first year of the war, nobody was fat in Europe (unless you were some elite Nazi like Herman Goering) Jews were supposedly being worked and starved to death as slave laborers. And you post comments in quotations (although with no attribution) that sounds like the kind of wild story Elie Wiesel would spin... at any rate, we have to assume the quote is from an eye-witness to what is being claimed. But it is an explanation they attempts to explain how millions of corpses were burned with little fuel in totally insufficient facilities. Basically, it's claimed the workers mixed in fat Jews with the skinny Jews, and once they got the fire going the body fat provided the fuel to keep the cremation process going non-stop. They just kept shoving more and more bodies in the ovens, keeping the fat-to-skinny ratio just right. This is so laughable. For a number of years I lived in a home that had a wood heater. I learned you cannot build any kind of functional fire with green wood. It just won't burn worth a sht. At best the green wood will smolder if you have some dry wood to first get it started. Keep throwing in more green wood and you will simply create a slow smoldering mess that eventually puts itself out and you have to clean it all out and start all over with dry wood. Again, you learn this kind of stuff if you have ever heated with wood. Well green hardwoods range from 20 to 30 percent moisture weight. And adult human body is comprised of about 60 percent water. Only an utter fool and just an ignorant klutz would believe this story that you could cram a small little cremation oven like the four originally installed at Auschwitz full to capacity and with little or no additional fuel burn all these bodies continuously relying only on the body fat of the fat Jews as fuel. This explanation is HILARIOUS. Dave, you've got to be the must gullible klutz ever to believe such a story. I'll bet you cannot change the oil in your car or change a flat tire. But you get such incredibly stories like this from Holocaust gurus all the time.

I Googled the amount of fuel required to cremate a human body. The answer I got was the process requires a temperature be maintained between 1,400 and 2, degrees Farenheit for two to four hours. This is equivalent to the fuel that would be needed to drive 4,800 miles. I suppose this was the Luftwaffe did not have the gasoline to put in its fighter planes in the closing months of the war or diesel fuel for its Panzer tanks. It was all being diverted to Auschwitz to cremate Jews. What a joke. Clearly this is an impossible story. This is it is against the law to ask questions about the Holocaust in over 20 countries. It's so easy to expose the Holocaust as a .://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

@skeptic99 "Once you accept the claim as valid, then you must accept fighting endless wars for Israel and even thousands of dead Palestinian children are of no consequence."

What a ridiculous assertion. They are not mutually exclusive. People don't have to cow tow to whatever Jews want because of the Holocaust. Maybe you think that way. Don't project.

@Davesnothere You are confusing me with Smoyle. He said he's not a Holocaust denier. You have attributed his entire post to me. Let me explain my position. I believe several hundred-thousand Jews were killed during WW II, almost all of them in Poland and Eastern Europe. Many were rounded up and executed by Nazi SS units assigned this task. Other Jews fell into the hands of Ukranian militias and other pro-Nazi nationals in the east. So, yes, I believe this, and I have repeatedly said I believe these killings happened from the start of this discussion. Here is where I have issues. 1. I think the numbers are greatly exaggerated, probably by a factor of ten or more. 2. I think the methods of killing are exaggerated for dramatic purposes. People were simply shot where they were found. They were not rounded up and shipped hundreds of miles to be gassed and cremated. This would have been a highly inefficient way to kill Jews or anyone else. Communists did not do this with their victims, and neither did the Nazis. 3. Almost all of the images we think we know about the Holocaust are fiction, for example Elie Wiesel's novelettes like "Night" are purely fiction. He was 15 when he was at Auschwitz. He did not begin writing about the experience until years later, and most of what he wrote was not factual. He even had different versions of the book with totally different details depending on which audience the book was intended for; for example, in versions of "Night" released for sale in Israel he includes stories about Jewish revenge on Germans after being released at the end of the war -- because he knew this kind of thing would be popular with that audience. Versions released in the US or Europe would make no mention of Jewish revenge. "Sophie's Choice" is another example of how the Holocaust tale morphs and changes, how fictional and malleable it is. The film is based upon a book written in 1982 by an American writer born in Virginia. Sophie is not even Jewish. She is a Catholic Polish woman. Yet the only thing most people remember is the famous scene where a German guard makes her choose which of her two children will live and which will die immediately in the gas chamber. Neither of her children are Jewish. They are blond-haired and blue-eyed Christians. Historically it makes no sense. The scene actually pisses off some Jews because it universalizes the Holocaust. Yet almost everyone who believes in the Holocaust has seen this scene. It is so powerful that it sticks in the brain, and people believe they fully understand the evil Nazis and the Holocaust. Gentile women can especially relate to the scene BECAUSE the children are so WHITE -- just like their own. "The Pianist" is another fictional account of this period and deals with imagined stuff that happened in Poland, at Treblinka, etc. "Schindler's List" is another well known movie, fictional of course, but focused on the Holocaust. I Googled Holocaust movies and I got things like "The Top 50 Most Moving Holocaust Films," [imdb.com], and ten Holocaust movies you must see, etc.

My point here is that everything we think we know about the Holocaust is based upon Hollywood fantasy that feeds and feeds upon itself. Trying to separate the myth, the fiction and the fantasy from reality is where I am at. For 99.5 percent of the people, the Hollywood fantasies represent all they know and understand about the Holocaust.

@skeptic99 Your language is very revelatory. "Holocaust promoters", a term which never could have existed outside the nurenburg trials after ww2.

"Your post regarding the Jewish explanation "
It is not "the Jewish explanation", it is the evidence of what was found at the end of ww2.

Like your looking at a burnt cake saying "its not THAT burnt, and anyway, how did they burn it like that without a bigger oven?"

The Nazi's kept meticulous records, which we found along with ovens of bodies, and mass graves, constant reports of roving death squads, who killed in the 1-150 range on average, and buried the results all through the baltics and eastern bloc.

""When United States troops entered Germany at the end of World War II, they seized all sorts of German records and brought them back to the United States. Among these were lists of Jews deported from Germany and extensive material from concentration camp records, primarily from camps located in the United States occupied zone of Germany, but also from other camps. Before the original documents were sent back to Germany and given to the International Red Cross at Arolsen, microfilmed copies were made and given to the United States National Archives (NARA). These were held in NARA under the rubric "Captured German Records". Although this microfilm collection was available for public inspection, they were not included in NARA's official inventory/catalog, and little use was made of the collection. "

All quotes from our records (US Army) which we sold copies of to the holocaust museum.

I suppose D Day was fake too right?

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier "I Googled the amount of fuel required to cremate a human body. The answer I got was the process requires a temperature be maintained between 1,400 and 2, degrees Farenheit for two to four hours."

This is a common tactic of Anti-Semites who dent the Holocaust. It fails because the numbers your googling are for proper, normal, legal cremations, not for an oven which never stops running and into which you just keep shoving.
THAT is in evidence.

"Holocaust deniers claim that those “few” Jews who perished died from natural causes or were legitimately executed by the Nazi state for actual criminal offenses. They assert that Jews and the Allied powers deliberately inflated the numbers of Jews killed during the war. Holocaust historians have placed the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust between 5.1 and 6 million, based on legitimate available historical sources and demographic methods. Holocaust deniers cite uncertainty about the exact number of deaths within this accepted range as proof that the whole history of the Holocaust has been fabricated and that the number of Jewish deaths during World War II has been grossly exaggerated."

I don't source unless asked to, but you don't really want the source, you have a position of faith based on assertions and denial of facts.
That is not skepticism, that is Anti-Semitism.

@skeptic99 Auschwitz was built in April of 1940. It "opened" in May of 1940. Prisoners were brought in to Auschwitz in May/June of 1940. Not late 1941. How can you be so wrong on so much?

@skeptic99 So first you said 250K and now you estimate about 600K (10 times less than officially estimated). Which is it?

The problem here on this website is the same problem you see on ALL atheist websites. Atheism has been defined and packaged. It is a way of thinking, of viewing the world and life here, that is pitched to white people with above-average intelligence and education. But there are strict limits placed on allowable thought. One is expected to adopt a modern liberal world view. You must hate President Trump and conform to all the other axioms of modern liberalism without question or deviation. Well there are many other ways to look at the world as an atheist. Historically, the WW II period we have been discussing, is a great example. The two great movements that contested the war, the USSR and Nazi Germany, were both the products of atheist world views. A significant percentage of Jews over the past century have been and still are atheists. Here in the US I would say most Libertarians tend toward atheism. Few seem to be religious.

So is there more than one way to be an atheist? Is there open thought and inquiry for atheists? Does saying you are a Republican get you booted from the clubhouse? Atheism should be opened up. So long as one rejects the old religions, that is all that should be required. What you think about the nature of government, tax policy or history should be up to you and not something that atheism imposes on you. I've seen this same closed corral effect at other atheist websites. It's the main reason the movement is going nowhere -- because it has nowhere to go. The people who think they define and control atheism won't allow it to evolve and grow.

The Nazis kept meticulous records. They recorded thdnnames, ages, birth dates and death dates of every single person who went through their prisons and the method of their murder. Its all there in black and white as evidence for the Nuremberg trials

@Judyt00 Where?

It seems Eichmann had serious plan to destoy millions of Jew, yet sidetracked from completing them.

That is why

Unproven "gas chambers" and "mass gassings”.
Lack of remains, mass graves and ash quantities make ‘Six Million’ implausible.

@Castlepaloma Really?
[theguardian.com]

[bbc.com]

[ushmm.org]

[sapiens.org]

[scientificamerican.com]

[dailymail.co.uk]

You are so full of shit!

@Castlepaloma I am sure there are alt-right sites that would love to have you, please feel welcome to hang out there! They even have discounts on tiki-torches!

@phxbillcee
Never said that "the Holocaust never happened. Just not the way we are lead to believe. The camps were set up in major production plants or quarries, where the prisoners were to perform slave labour. Most death camps were of starvation , torture, worked to death and disease,
If there were Nazi gas chambers for the purposes of mass executions of all jews, show me the evidence. Not to be insensitive just want to be unattached realistically.

Show me "eyewitnesses," chemical properties of the insecticide supposedly used in the mass exterminations, or anything else. First, we must locate and/or define a Nazi gas chamber. Everything else comes second.
Greg Raven posted a challenge. He asserted, without evidence, —still waiting.

The anti-revisionists' best piece of evidence:
A speech delivered by Heinrich Himmler. Published by the U.S. Government Printing Office, 1949-1953.

Speeches by Reichsfuehrer-SS 1943.
"The Jewish people are going to be exterminated," , it's in our program, elimination of the jews,

Not one has had to go through with it. The challenge was to narrow the discussion to that of the existence of the gas chambers. I only question the existence of the "Nazi gas chambers."

From the book Hitler and the Final Solution by G. Fleming, 1984,.

Report entitled "Resettlement of Jews" written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Gricksch for SS-Col. von Herff and Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, after inspection of the Auschwitz camp on May 14-16, 1943.

You entre cellars in a large house which are entered from outside. They go down five or six steps into a fairly long, well-constructed anwell-ventilated cellar area, which is lined with benches to the left and right. It is brightly lit, and the benches are numbered. The prisoners are told that they are to bath.

Sorry, not good enough evidence.

@Castlepaloma You seem to be another person that doesn't read what's provided.

@phxbillcee
No.... I don't give my kid at Christmas a GI Jews and an easy bake oven.

Been called a reverse racist a few times. Which is silly because whites are too privileged. I date mostly non-white girls and two favorite jewish girlfriends which were my longest term relationships.

I come to this topic with great abundance of reserch. Because I love nature and humans history worldwide since age 8. Where most kids dislike history. Been to over a hundred countries to confirm local evidence for professional museum displays.

@phxbillcee
No.... I don't give my kid at Christmas a GI Jews and an easy bake oven.

Been called a reverse racist a few times. Which is silly because whites are too privileged. I date mostly non-white girls and two favorite jewish girlfriends which were my longest term relationships.

I come to this topic with great abundance of reserch. Because I love nature and humans history worldwide since age 8. Where most kids dislike history. Been to over a hundred countries to confirm local evidence for professional museum displays.

"85% of people who call themselves Jew, have no Hebrew blood what so ever. "
No such thing as Hebrew blood despite their obsession with geneology.
Hebrew peoples are Semetic people, like the Philistines and Moabites (whose dna is still about)

Judasim is a religion, not a race of people. The reality that that reigion tracks geneology and use their own decent and bloodlines as part and parcel of that, does not make them magically a Race.

Proof?
I could convert to Judaism, think you can convert to Black, Asian, Native, or Latino?

Also comparing a genocide to a greater genocide committed over a longer period of time does not lessen the genocide attempt. Hitler was State sponsored genocide, as was Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and so on.

Where do I start?
Definitions; English is a living language words change, are added or modified by usage eg. "Chauvinist" modern usage says sexist but it was originally "an excessive devotion to any cause, person or ideal" This does not mean that the modern definition is wrong, just narrow.
So your baptist minister told you about "fake Jews!" Ffs really why the fuck would anyone want to join that club? A history of oppression and persecution "so lets pretend to be them" I suggest you keep wearing that aluminium hat.

@273kelvin
I am well versed in linguists. I was a teen when I was a babtist. No tin foil hat needed. English lives with about 550k terms. The French lexicon exists with about 250k terms. 48% of the the Eglish terms derive from French terms. So like the entire French lexicon lives in the English Language. I am very knowledgable in cognate pathology, etymology, morphology, and semantics. Sorry, not apart of the tin foil hat group, i keep an open mind an look at facts..... investigative jurnalism using systemic morphemes. I follow descriptive linguists because I studied under 1st generation chompsky.

@273kelvin, @Davesnothere
Ok so you know history how well do you know the bible? The hebrew people are most likely descended from the hyksos. The proto canaanite laguage and hebrew language are almost indistiguishable in written form. The jewish religion, is a geniological religion because back in the day they believed in reincarnation. Every 7 generations your spirit was reincarnated. The tree of life. Judaism is a male centric religion, the symbol of the star of david or sixpointed star shows the union of man an women. Triangle up represents male, triangle down represents female.

The jew have always been about themselves, and yes you can convert, but you will always be goyim. Goyim are slave to the jew, and the jew can do whatever they want to the goyim. The Askenazi Jew have no hebrew blood, if you have no hebrew blood, then you are not jew. The judiac religion is centered around yahweh and the covenant with the hebrew, and the 12 tribes of Israel, or the 12 signs of the Mazzorath.

You can call the color black blue, but if you are not black then you are blue.

So yes judaism is a religion. However it was designed for an ethnic group of people, not a race. An ethnic identity that have their own religion and are required to marry within the jewish/ hebrew bloodline. Though many stopped following that rule, but most do. Ethnical purity.

Yes they are Semetic, and speak an afro-asiatic language. As afore mention several scolars hold the hebrews evolved with the canaanites out of the Hyksos.

Shall we continue??

@Etre History is always written by the victors, but the issue is not the selectivness of historians, but the rampant evidence of the slaughter of millions.

You keep referencing "Fake Jews"
Would that not make each and every convert to Xtianity a fake as well, by that logic?

Juadism was and very much is a tribal religion, with tribes within tribes among them.
Only in certain sects of judaism would " Goyim are slave to the jew, and the jew can do whatever they want to the goyim." be viable.
That is kind of like calling all Christians Westboro Baptist or all Muslims Wahibbist isn't it?

You seem to carry a strong anti-semetic streak or feeling, is that so?

@Davesnothere
Not at all, my friend. Well versed in biblical chronology. I was a devout christian and believer. My uncle was a pastor, his father was a pastor. I have priests in my historical lineage. My last name denotes a priest/town/city/enclosure in the Anglo-Saxon vernacular.

I am versed in esoteric history and occult soceities.
Semiotics and Symbology

The premise of fake is derived from the historical knowledge and understanding how the kazars propgated their jewish ancestory, and entire populations of people support a historical lie.

The Balfore declaration set up the state of Israel for the jews to return to there biblical home. These jews are European, not Hebrew or Semetic.

So if it bothers you that I use the term Fake, well no apology given. Fake refers to the fact that they are not hebrew, they are not blood. I know its not their fault, social conditioning. But States know the History, and the world is being pushed into a war over a lie. To propagate the judiac/christian ideology.

The land was puchased by the English Crown through the Rothschild bank of England in what... 1945 circa. The palestinians have been pushed back, and there ancestrial lands taken from them for decades. Look at what is happening now.

Etre: You are a perfect example of a brainwashed dilletante who finds rubbish on the internet that supports his warped theories. From a baptist minister of all people.
That truly is rich in an agnostic community. You should seek conversation on a site like the Aryan Brotherhood, or even better, how about David Duke?

@Davesnothere, @Trueblueroo, @273kelvin

@Davesnothere, @Trueblueroo, @273kelvin

I do not know much about this guy but he lays out the facts and gives sources. Have Fun!!

@273kelvin, @Trueblueroo, @Davesnothere

@Etre A. Consider your source.
"Forbidden History is a British fringe history series modeled more or less explicitly on America Unearthed and now airing on the American Heroes Channel."

Second, talking about the Bolshenik revolution is a strawman as regards the holocaust,

your also using Vladimir Putin as a source with authority, someone telling you the truth?

"Putin was born in Leningrad in the Soviet Union. He studied law at Leningrad State University, graduating in 1975.[7] Putin was a KGB foreign intelligence officer for 16 years, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel before resigning in 1991 to enter politics in Saint Petersburg. He moved to Moscow in 1996 and joined President Boris Yeltsin's administration, rising quickly through the ranks and becoming Acting President on 31 December 1999, when Yeltsin resigned."

So let me get this straight, you are MORE willing to believe that an intel officer the rank of Colonel (in the Damn KGB/FSB) of an adversairial Nation State, than say our own troops on the ground?

"The American liberators made sure that residents of Dachau and other towns were forced to confront the horrors of the concentration camps. According to Harold Marcuse, in his book "Legacies of Dachau," after the liberation "a group of Dachau Nazi elite was forced to tour the Dachau crematorium on 8 May 1945." There they were made to look at the naked, emaciated bodies of the innocent victims of Nazi barbarity, piled up in the mortuary room right next to the gas chamber. Young boys in the Hitler Youth were brought to the camp and forced to look at the corpses on the Death Train."

You seem very quick to adopt an Anti-Semetic position, based upon assertions.

@Davesnothere

When did I ever state the burnt offering did not happen. I think there is some confusion. Putin is confirming my previous statement about the "fake" jew argument. The Ashkenazi. You think I am anti semetic, however the issue is these Ashkenazi are not semetic, they are from Kazaria. Well known in the history books.

Pretty sure that is not a Brittish documentary. I think it is independently produced. I suggest you watch then form your conclusions. He gives tons of sources.

I have never seen that doc till a few hours ago. I already have the knowledge base. But this doc filled in a lot of unknown data.

Think. You are smart.

@Davesnothere

For the record, Jew/Jewish/Hebrew refers to an ethnicity of peoples who follow the judaic religion born from the covenant made with the supreme deity Yahweh. Yahweh made the covenant with the Hebrews and their lineage. This is why the Hebrew/Jewish term goyim refers to non Jewish people, not of the covenant with the creator. The Jewish/Hebrew language is Afro-Asiatic.

The Khazars are not of Hebrew descent, and therefore are goyim, not of the covenant. The Khazars lost their home land in Khazaria due to war. They were expelled and resettled in Russia where they took on the Jewish identity and religion. The Kharzars are a Turkic ethnicity and spoke an Altaic language. After taking on the Jewish Identity they merged hebrew with other language groups to form Yiddish.

The Bolsheviks are these faux-pas Jews, who took over in Russia around 1918. Through their beliefs in judaism and their false misconception of being hebrew, part of the covenant, they began to ethnically kill the goyim, or indigenous peoples from Russia and Ukrain. Some total the numbers around 100 mil between Lenin and Stalin. Governmental policy was written to protect the Askenazim Jew, while the ethnic cleansing, sacrifice, was offered of the goyim unto Yahweh.

@Etre Your INSIDE the religion already "Yahweh made the covenant with the Hebrews and their lineage. This is why the Hebrew/Jewish term goyim refers to non Jewish people"
To non Hebrew people, by blood, by lineage.

Judaism is a religion, its adherents are Jews. Hebrews are a Semtic people.
You can convert to Judaism (Jewish)
You cannot convert to Hebrew, they become your adopted tribe, and you are welcomed UNLESS your in hard fundie Judaism (then your Goyim)

@Davesnothere

I understand you knowledge of American Jewery, i know jews, i know the bible, you are dancing around the facts. Not all jews are hardcore. The history is right in front of your face. You are taking up for a mass manipulation, Israel is for the hebrews not the Ashkenazi. Several jews have told me about the Ashkenazi. The covenent was not with them. I know the bible very well. They are not real fake. Protocols of the Elders of Zion, look how they used their judaism to take control of Russia and comit genocide.

They brought the holocaust on themselves.

For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction. As above so below.

We are governed by the laws of motions.

Stop skating around facts, why are you fighting this fight.

The judaic religion is the root of all of our problems, what religions control the paradigm.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

Yahwehism

Any questions??

The stage is being set for war, and you are defending the root cause!!

@Etre I just read most of the posts & waited to see how things "turned out", until now. "They brought the Holocaust on themselves." ??? Are you fucking serious?!? & you are going to use the "Protocols..." to base your crap on???? If there is a war I know one thing. I'm not on your side, you suck! The "Covenant" has nothing to do with those many that converted, they were considered Jewish by the countries they lived in, which brought down all the same disgusting bigotry that you show here. Please, don't pretend that you used to be xtian, by your actions & beliefs you prove it in so many ways. Now I have to go shower because reading your twisted 'history' has made me nauseous!

@phxbillcee

You look at things from a very linear path. I look at things in cycles. Life is not linear. Everything around us is in motion, cyclical. Those jews in the burnt offering were not jewish by blood. They where raised in the deception as the deception was given to mankind.

Look at what the Jews are doing to the Palistinians. Look at what Saudi Arabi is doing to Yemen, what 250k gone to date.

I am not condoning and or supporting Hitler and his actions. I am not a racist by any facts of any matter. I am a student of history, i look at facts. I call the kettle black. I have read Treblinka, i made it to the 7th chapter and had to stop. I was crying, i felt the emotion and pain of what occured. It deeply moved me.

You can call this warped history all you want. Ignorance does not make you right. I am not saying the act of sacrifice was right. But the Ashkenazim Jews called it a holocaust, a burnt offering unto god.

The Ashkenazim Slaughtered, murdered, sacrificed, around 100 million Russians and Ukrainians. Let me repeat that, 100 million between Stalin and Linen.

Hitler was an evil man. But he did not start out that way. He was an Artist. And a Brave Soldier. He learned about Ugenics from American Scientists. This is where his great race ideas came from. He was also Greatly envolved with esoteric soceities. Something you are not well versed in Secret Societies and Esoteric History.

There is nothing that can be done about the past. You and others have learned more about the history than most people on this planet living right now!! It is happening right in front of your face, but you can not see it. You are blind by your knowledge.

Albert pike wrote about the 3 world wars, and the 1st two happened as he wrote his Morals and Dogma for his Masonic Brothers.

You and the common herd watch history unfold not understanding the unseen movements behind the curtain. You believe history unfolds in an existential manner. And for most it does, except for the world stage.

Judaism and Christianity both have been used to supress human consciousness. Still being used to flock the Sheep to this day.

Do you know what a Papal Bull is? Papal Bulls are very old, they go way back. Papal Bulls are Spells, Craft Magic. They were written on infant human flesh for about 1500 years, until 1880s or so. I can explain the magic here, but I am not going to.

Its not about what you know, its about what you do not. If you choose to run the common consciousness, then so be it.

I am a student of History, my familial leanage traces back almost 1000 years. I do not care what you think. I care about what it is that I know. What I have researched. What I have been taught. What I have learned.

The federal reserve is not federal. Never has been. The United States is Bankrupt.

Israel cares not for the humans they murder. Yet I do not see you crying wolf for them. You look at the evidence for the ritual slaughter of the 6million Ashkenazim, and you see a foul but question not. You know something is wrong. Vast amounts of people were murdered in your eyes as a non believer. But to those who believe, the Ashkenazim call it a Holocaust. A burnt offering unto God/Yahweh.

The Ashkenazim Slaughtered all of those Russians to usurp control and protect themselves. Do I hear you crying foul for those 100 million Russian and Urkranian souls. Nope, you want to pick an argument with me because I showed how in what is called Yin/Yang Magic, the Karma was brought back upon the Ashkenazi.

I can show you videos right now of the Askenazim in Israel who talk about the time coming when they will be given 100 Goyim as Slaves. And you cast stones at me!! For pointing out the Facts.

I can show you video of jews in Jeruselem talking about the Palistians as if they were nothing. And you cast stones at me.

The Khazar took on the Jewish Identity and Religion to hide their nationality. They were not given that Identity they took it. And the formed a language.

The Covenent has to do with the Hebrews. Now do not be confused.... I am not saying its real, but its how these people think. Jews have committed as much attrocities on the world stage as anyone else. In fact some sects still practice ritual sacrifice. But you are without knowledge.

Therefore you judge.

There is so much more to cover here. You are versed in common consciousness alright. And if you can not see what is happening right now, then so be it.

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

Let me share this with you, so I might sleep in peace instead of disgust.

Isis- virgin birth to Horace ~ did miracles, healed sick, crucified resurrected.

Ra ~ sun god who merged with Horus

El ~ Canaanite/Hebrew main deity represented by the planet Saturn and so named El.

Do you see it??

Is..Ra..El

3 gods in one

The Trinity

Knowledge derives from the Greek Gnosis.

Gnosis ~ refers to mystical or inner spiritual learning.

Esoteric ~ hidden knowledge

Occult ~ hidden knowledge

The term God ~ derives from the term Zeus

Zodiac ~ a calendar used for measuring the 25900 year cycle of our Solar System on the Galactic Plain, also known as the Great Year and or the Plutonic Year.

4 main cults ~ Sun, Moon, Saturn, Dionysus

Christianity is Sun Worship ~ Astrotheologia

You can figure out the rest. Cults of the Snake #5.

They all exist to this day.

Did you ever ask yourself why they circle the black cube counter clockwise??

@Etre I see Ra...El...Isis = reality, which missed you by a significant degree! Please get back on your meds!

@Davesnothere The science of biology does not recognize the concept of race as it is commonly known among the laity. It turns out that there has always been a lot of mixing in the human population. It turns out that there is more natural variation of phenotypes within a so-called racial group than there is between these groups. This was understood even before modern DNA analysis, which now confirms the idea that there is only one race: the human race. Sorry to drag you into the semantic weeds, but I feel like the aforementioned race could benefit from a close parsing of this one bit of the lexicon. ?

@Flyingsaucesir I know and agree, I was using the term in the coloquial sense, (cultural, socital exc)

Dna also confirms the Bible in error, Moabites survived.

@phxbillcee

Its true I did not sleep yesterday... agreed.. and I associated All the Ashkenazim with the Bolsheviks, and that was wrong.

You do not know how secret societies have contibuted. We would not be where we are at if not for the Masons and their plight against Catholicism. The Medici also plaid a Great Role in Creating the Arts Education. The Rosicrucians Greatly advanced Cities with their Metropolitan Community Colleges.

I apologize to you for becoming upset and in being demeaning. I did not mean to associate all Ashkenazim with Bolshevism. I was wrong.

All of that data exists because it is known. To understand how mass manipulation was used to control populations, one first has to learn about the Egyptians and their Mystery Schools (occultism).