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Do "strong and independent women, not need a man"?

I consider myself a strong and independent man. I own my own home, car, small business and pay my bills, etc. I believe/feel that I need a woman to share my life with to be whole.

So, why do feminists profess that I am unnecessary in a hetrosexual woman's life? Are humans not social animals? Do we not need eachother in this world?

JoshArnaldo 5 July 29
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23 comments

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12

"So, why do feminists profess that I am unnecessary in a hetrosexual woman's life?"

All feminists? Not in my experience. Women demand, and should expect, equal treatment, pay and opportunity, and as a cisgender white hetro guy, I have my mother, sisters, wife and daughter to thank for helping me understand my privilege.

[washingtonpost.com]

@JoshArnaldo @JoshArnaldo A brilliant article, and inspiring. It is long overdue that our society be led, and policy be made, by a majority of chromosome X. Considering our recent history, I'm more than willing to take the backseat for a good long while. In my view, Dr. Walters' key point is found in this sentence: "We are told he’s with us and #NotHim. But, truly, if he were with us, wouldn’t this all have ended a long time ago?" Yes, however...

... Dr. Walters needs to look into a mirror. Women have had the vote for nearly 100 years. Injustices, including the inequality of women, have enablers--and it includes women themselves! Consider that, in the 2016 presidential election, 52% of white women voted for a man over a woman; and this is not just any man, but one who is recognized as a sexist and an abuser of women. Seriously, 52% of caucasian American women voted for an apparent misogynist! This fact makes my head explode!

Yes, the pendulum has swung too far toward the Y chromosome, but women represent the voting majority (by a small margin), do they not? And while I would prefer to avoid massive swings, it is high time. When women unite and rise to overcome the stereotypes and history of abuse, I will be right there with them. But blame, as well as credit, should be shared.

10

No one should ever need to be with someone, they should want to be with someone.

As a single person living alone, it feels an awful lot like a need to me right now.

Depression tends to shorten one's life span.

@Sheannutt If l am absolutely right?

@Sheannutt Mine does the same thing or changes them completely. I knew what you meant. Just messing with you. ☺

9

I work hard. I own my own home, car & pay my own way. I don't need to be rescued. I don't need anyone to "complete" me. I'm a complete person in & of myself.

That said, I WANT someone to share life with, someone who is compatable & that we are complimentary to each other in areas of strengths & weaknesses. Someone to share the load & make life lighter.

I have had men tell me they want an independent woman who knows her own mind & is making her way in the world then turn around & say I'm not spontaneous emough & I don't have enough free time to suit them. Surprise but independent poeple who are making their way in this world are busy people who make time for those who are important in their life. Spontaneity & late work night dates don't always fit the bill.

@SallyInStiches

Well put. Thank you.

I feel like you are taking my question as an attack. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to address in relation to my proposition but it seems clear that you are hurt by it. That was not my intent.

I grew up in a two bedroom one bath home with four sisters a brother plus mom and dad. I'm single and live alone now.

Its extremely depressing. I honestly think I "need" a partner or I will not survive the loneliness.

I see casual misandry often and it hurts. see below for example.

[psychologytoday.com]

[washingtonpost.com]

[time.com]

[washingtonpost.com]

[ifeminists.net]

@JoshArnaldo i can assure you, I'm not taking this as an attack. I am explaining the difference between need, want & perspective. I had a big family too. 7 people in less than 900 sq ft. A lot of communication & very little privacy or personal space.

After the break up of a LT relationship, I felt devastated & alone. I didnt want a rebound relationship but I was lonely. So, I took time & decided that I needed to get myself in order before I could really offer a potential s/o what I consider to be a solid partner. I did a lot of different things (book clubs, dance classes, going out with friends) & just had fun.

When I decided it was time to date again, I got a lot of mixed messages from the dating pool. I kept hearing about wanting an independent woman who was financially stable but then was told I needed to be available & that planning things was too much like work. (I think they may have meant independently wealthy woman.)

Being lonely & in need can make you a target for those who are looking to capitalize on a situation. (Yeah, I said it, mercenaries.) It makes you vulnerable & easily manipulated. Make friends. Get involved in the (or a) community, volunteer, take classes, take time and analyze why you are feeling such loneliness. You sound like a pretty successful guy. Dont make the same mistakes I made trying to find someone to fix something I needed to fix within myself.

@JoshArnaldo she is not. She is pointing out the flaws in your question. If you assume being questioned is an attack, I have serious questions about your mental state.

Agreed with @OpposingOpposum. You asked a question, SallyinStitches answered it - and her answer doesn't come across as an attack at all. I took your question at face value and answered it honestly too; however, now I've read some replies here your response to several women who have also honestly answered, also without any hint that they are attacking you, strongly suggests a hidden motive behind your original post and that your question was designed to create an opportunity for you to verbally attack women who answered. In short, you come across as an incel. I hope I'm mistaken in that, because in your profile you come across as a decent sort of guy.

8

Great question! I think it is a focus on the word NEED. I am a strong independent woman with PhD and am completely able to make my own money and take care of my almost grown kids. I don't need a man to survive. However, I WANT a man to share my life with. And I would much rather be wanted than needed. Wouldn't you? I think of people around me (men and women) who cling to others thinking they need them to survive. When you are in that frame of mind, then you will do crazy things to keep them even if they are abusive because you believe you NEED them. Wanting a person is so much more beautiful. It means they really see something awesome in you. People who want eachother share their lives instead of depend on the other person to make their life.

@cmmotes,

Thank you for your thoughtful, intelligent reply. Well done.

7

Need is different from want to many of us. At least when it comes to romantic relationships.

Yes, we are social animals and we need social interactions. Nowhere does it say that that social interaction must be of the romantic sort.

I do not need a relationship to pay my bills, feel happy feel whole.

Someday, I want a relationship for the consistent companionship and all the other bells and whistles (including the second income which allows for more adventures) that comes with it.

If a person chooses you out of want as opposed to need, you should feel fortunate, in my opinion.

@admin - Will you please look into the editing function? I can’t stand typos and I’m not able to edit my own comments anymore. I am able to edit, but then I’m not able to submit.

@BlueWave I sometimes delete my entire comment, pull the text into a word processor, fix it, and then re-post ... what a pain in the ass this site has turned into!

@Ella, @VictoriaNotes I'll see if it can be fixed this week. Thanks.

4

I think its a matter of "need" vs "want".

As an example - I have a large live oak in the back yard that occasionally drops sizeable branches into the yard during a storm. Sometimes the branch is large enough to require a chain saw to cut it up in order to move it. When I bought the place I was in a LTR with a man, prior to leaving me he told me I needed to sell the place and get a condo because I "can't handle it by myself". Well, maybe I can't handle everything, but I've found often where there's a will there's a way. So the first time a limb fell I asked myself - what would HE do/say about this? Well, he would demand I rush down to Lowe's with my credit card and buy him the most expensive chain saw that money can buy. Being a thriftier soul myself, I bought myself a small electric chain saw for $50. I sat down and read the manual, and proceeded to go out there and cut up the limb into pieces small enough for me to load in the wheelbarrow and get down to the burn pile.

As someone who grew up in the 70s, I know for certain that my grandmothers and mother would never have behaved in such a manner. In their conditioned mindset, this is "men's work" that women cannot do. They would have called around and got a male relative to come do it for them. Since I have none that live close enough to do it, I did it myself. I would also note that I have a neighbor that DOES have a man, and they've had a long thin pine tree laying in their yard for 5 years and NOBODY has cut it up, or even asked to borrow my chain saw. And I'm certainly not going to offer to do it for them.

Now, maybe people see me as a "feminist" because I am often seen doing "men's work", however since I live alone on my property its all "my" work. Would it be nice to have someone with a penis to do this kind of thing for me? Yeah, probably. But until I do, I'll figure a way to handle these things myself; or come up with the money to pay someone to do it; or whatever. What I'm not going to do is sit and flap my hands and play damsel in distress. One thing my prior relationship taught me is that many of the traditional "male" chores aren't so complicated or difficult that a determined woman cannot do them herself. Sure, he used to ACT like he was doing something epic and heroic - but so was taking out the trash, right?

I think a lot of us have been brainwashed, not only into set gender chore roles, but also into set gender mindsets - and I don't want to be told there are things I "can't do" just because there's not a man around. Maybe there's some men out there who think they "can't" bake a cake or sew on a button - yes you can. Nothing either gender traditionally does is so very mysteriously complicated that you can't learn to do it too. I'm all for both genders helping one another out, but when it becomes a sort of enabler situation that keeps the other person helpless without you, that's not a good thing. I think ability is a lot sexier than helplessness in both genders.

@exilesky

Bravo! Good for you. Well said.

4

Unknown.
My wife and I are both "strong & independent".
Yet, we both feel much more fulfilled being together. We're both financially secure, healthy, and still rely on each other for psychological and physical support. I cannot imagine being without her. And the cats, and Zorak the Wonder Dog.
Don't tell her what I said about them though.
😉

3

We do not. We may want one, we may be happier when we have someone to share things with but making one single person responsible for your happiness and well being is too much to ask IMO.
Something thats not often acknowledged is how much women DO for the men in their lives. I'd like to have someone who sees to my physical and emotional needs, takes primary care of the kids, cleans,cooks makes appointments and keeps track of social obligations too. It's no wonder men prefer having a woman around but all too often an SO is just more work for a woman.

Word. Don't we all want a stereotypical "wife"? However, its been my experience that when I'm the breadwinner and there's an unemployed man living with me, he blows off ALL the wifely duties and devotes himself to gaming, his hobbies, making messes, and demanding that I run around spending money on his entertainment as soon as I get home tired from work. I have reversed my role, but in his head somehow the role reversal isn't happening, and all he ends up being is a high-maintenance pet. Perhaps eventually, as the generation of men die off who are utterly convinced that their role is to take from women instead of give to them, there could be some domestic equality. All I know is its a lot easier to live alone than to be both breadwinner and domestic caretaker for someone who contributes absolutely nothing except the questionable glory of his presence.

@exilesky. Yep. I too have had that experience.

@OpposingOpposum I lived with an ex who's home was falling apart. During our year long relationship. I replaced; Two toilets, two shower heads, a great-room ceiling fan and installed a remote system, garbage disposal, kitchen sink and faucet, a retaining wall for her patio. I also cleared the brush from her back yard, disposed of a fallen tree, repaired her lawn mower, landscaped her front and side yard, hung her Christmas lights, picked her 7 year old daughter from school, made her dinner and took her to music or gymnastics a couple times a week, I also made the "family dinner" cleaned the house and pet sat her three dogs 5 frogs 2 lizards, 2 axolotls and chameleon. That's just what I can recall from the top of my head.

Relationships are work.

Why are you ignoring all the things that men do for women? Why are you painting men with such a negative brush? In the house I grew up in, my mother did almost nothing and it was by my father's, sister's and my income that we were able to keep the lights on and food on the table. To this day she refuses to get a job. Citing scripture that her husband is "Obligated" to provide for her. So my father will work till he dies to provide for my mother, who will spend her entire life indulging in her hobbies. Don't give me this crap about "all men are lazy" and women have it so much worse.

[slate.com]

[theatlantic.com]

@JoshArnaldo [amp.usatoday.com]
I'm not sure why you're convinced that your experiences are the only valid ones but here's an article with some statistics which show the exact opposite of the picture you're trying to.paint here.
Furthermore if women are just parasites on the lives of men, why would you want one? Something isn't adding up here.

@OpposingOpposum You're comment clearly indicates that you are still not listening to a word of what I'm saying. You are just accusing me of what I accused you of and had already condemned as irrational.

3

There is a difference between wanting and needing. Women have long been told that we NEED a man to take care of us, to be complete, to be real women.
Personally I was in a bad marriage for a long time. My ex worked hard to keep me convinced that I needed him while actually doing nothing at all for me. My life got much easier and happier when he left, so I know that I don’t need a man.
That said, I don’t see anything wrong with WANTING a partner or person to share your life with.

[psychologytoday.com]

I would like to defer to the experts on this matter. 🙂

@JoshArnaldo you defer all you want. Women with any sense are going to steer well clear of you.

@JoshArnaldo I was far more lonely in a bad marriage than I have ever been since it ended.

@OpposingOpposum What is your issue with me exactly?

3

I don't think all feminists think as you say. Additionally, in the same way you need a woman "to be whole" a woman has exactly the same need.
The problem here is very simple.....Some men feel threatened by a woman who pays her bills and earns her salary. Yes, those guys feel these women's means will prevent them (boys) from controlling them (ladies)..

[washingtonpost.com]

2

Why so much hate? I said nothing putting women down. Also, about "Needing vs wanting". I would humbly submit the following.

[psychologytoday.com]

[psychologytoday.com]

[scientificamerican.com]

It would appear to me that all humans "need" companionship.

@JoshArnaldo
I refuse to let a few bad men destroy my opinion of half of the human race. I am smarter and stronger than the man who raped me. I will not let him control my mind or life.

2

To be a feminist means I want equal rights and equal pay for women.

As a strong, intelligent and independent woman (threatening to many older men), I want a committed, loving relationship.

Loving relationships work best when we add a certain spirit, an attitude of goodwill. I wouldn't know a grudge if it mugged me. I miss the tender touch, laughter, conversation, intimacy, teamwork and fun of a committed, loving relationship.

Watch the hilarious Netflix comedy special, "Elder Millennial" by Ilza Shelsinger. I never laughed so hard in my life!

At 35, IlzaShelsinger jokes about dating, strong and independent women, differences between men and women, getting ready for dates, bird mating calls, getting engaged, the question, "Should women approach men first?" and much more.

1

There is no point in generalising about 'what women need' or 'what men need'. There are thousands of different types of men and women. Human beings are social by nature, but over a wide spectrum of needs and wants, and those needs and wants can change over time. You are young, and you have plenty of time ahead in which to meet someone you can build a relationship with. The relationship you are looking for shouldn't just be to make you feel whole. It should work both ways and make your partner feel whole, too. It is worth keeping in mind that the way feminists and a lot of other women who don't call themselves feminists feel now is the result of the way they have been treated by men up until now.

1

Don't need, but want. There's a big difference.

1

Few feminists argue that a woman should not have a man as her partner should she wish to do so (some do and believe all women should be lesbian; they are, of course, entitled to have that opinion).

What feminists mean is that it should not be necessary for a woman to depend on a man to give her a good standard of living, security and so on. Remember, it wasn't so very long ago that women were denied the right to further education and it was legal to pay women far less than men, as well as to favour men over women when looking to fill certain jobs such as managerial and other well-paid positions - the only way she could have the things you enjoy as a result of your hard work was by marrying a man who would provide them to her in return for being his servant. Things have changed, thanks to the efforts of all the women and men who understood that wasn't right, and now a woman can earn all that for herself and be completely self-sufficient without depending on a man - but if she chooses to pair up with one, there's nothing wrong with that.

Jnei Level 8 July 30, 2018
1

No one needs another person after they're past childhood. Choosing, wanting and enjoying are much better positions.

1

I just want someone to show me that i matter to them. Someone that matters to me. I want to belive them. I don't need anybody, but i would like somebody...

SuziQ Level 4 July 30, 2018
1

I don't need a companion to survive in the near term, but humans with life partners live longer happier lives. I "need" to live a happy life, or, why not just end it now? There fore I "need" a companion.

I honestly did not think that people would take this so negatively.

I also feel that my intention was misrepresented in the responses.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have not said or implied anything negative in my post.

@Charity Precisely.

@Charity Thank you, I was not sure what I had said wrong, but now that you point it out I see what they thought I was saying.

@Charity Thank science! you came along. lol

@Charity Thank you again! That's exactly right.

I had a discussion at the "Ethical Society" today. I enjoy the cerebral stimulation and philosophical discussion there.

I'm still missing the intimate connection and companionship I had when I lived with my exes.

I've been dating online for months and honestly I need to take a break. I can't take any more rejection for a while. Its to damaging to my fragile ego to message so many women and be completely ignored.

Yes I'll admit it. I have an ego and it gets damaged from time to time. I believe that makes me human. lol

1

I don’t know either. I’m good on my own but I have days where I’m lonely and having a lady in my life would be great. I don’t seem to have much luck at picking the right one though. I’m pretty sure through the heartache and pain that I’m pretty much done looking and have accepted that if it happens then it happens otherwise I will just occupy myself with my dog and Falconry.

PaulD Level 5 July 29, 2018
1

A truly strong and independent woman would/could say either way. I have single friends who feel a relationship at this stage of their life isn't something they desire. For me, having someone to share the joys and sorrows of my experiences with (and likewise) is very important. I want to be there for someone who is sharing their happiness, and I would like someone to be there to share mine as well. But we are all different creatures. No way is right or wrong.

0

depends what you mean by need its a trigger word as the person using it can mean anything want might be better desire also but need kinda implies a negative not a positive situation

weeman Level 7 July 31, 2018
0

People only "need" each other if they feel that they do. Some, women and men, prefer being alone, and are quite good at it
Just a matter of being with others that have a similar goal !

0

There's a "block" button on people's profiles if someone is trolling you. This blocks them from being able to see your posts or you to see theirs.

Many women with high levels of male traits feel hostility toward men, and since people with high IQs tend to be androgynous and atheists are high IQ, many women on this website are strong in male traits.

No need to date them or even listen to them if you don't want to..just block them.

I'm almost a worst-case scenario of those types, since I'm highly masculine in traits, even slightly more male-minded than female, yet I also would love to meet someone my age who is compatible with me, to go ballroom dancing and hiking with.

Many men like the idea of a strong, independent woman who won't be needy and clingy and who loves to do outdoor things, but most prefer someone more domestic.

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