My kid wants to join the Boy Scouts. I know they have become more inclusive, but still hold onto the idea that everyone should have faith. Both me and his dad are atheists. My kid says he believes in god (prob getting it from friends at school). Mind you he also still believes in Santa. He’s asked for a few years now, and we’ve always explained why we didn’t agree with it. He’s 10 now, and asked again. I’ve researched and there aren’t other programs/groups in my area that are comparable.
Do I concede?
I’ll support him with whatever he chooses to believe in life.
Thoughts?
If it makes him happy, I think you just have to let him go one day. His friends obviously have a huge influence on him, so don't be the bad guys who won't let him be with his friends. Just teach him to never stop asking questions, to be curious about the world and to question authority. Even as a christian he will be fine. Just talk with him from time to time about what he believes and tell him what you believe. He should know that it's okay to have different opinions.
I would also ask him WHY he believes what he believes. I think that is the most important question to ask a believer.
@DaphneDarling "I just do" is not an acceptable answer. It is a non-answer and an admittance that he does not have an answer to "why" and does not even know "why". But that is about all any believer can give, until and if they really ask THEMSELVES the "why" question.
My nephew is an atheist. He did fine in the Scouts.
His Mom is Jewish - she was one of the troop leaders.
I'm pretty sure it depends on where you are and who is running the troop. You'd find out fast because your kid will tell you. In this case I might say "If the religious part of this group bothers you I will let you leave before the year is up". A one time agreement.
My nephew loved his time with scouts. They had no issue with the kid who was gay in his troop either.
Except in this case, she says her kid says he believes in god. Allowing him to join the BSA could reinforce that, depending on how deeply into belief the locals are. I don't condone indoctrination of children in any manner. Even as slight as it might be, I just wouldn't be comfortable with it.
I don't like the Boy Scouts because they are misogynistic, or were.
Boys get to build shelters, tie knots, learn cool things like Morse Code, Braille, flag signals, go on camping trips, etc., but the girls get to wear long, ugly SKIRTS and sit around inside eating cookies.
BORING. And stupid. I only attended once, then quit in disgust. I hear that now they must accept girls in the Boy Scout activities, but I still think it's stupid. I do much better camping and doing things on my own than following some group around, following orders, missing out on all the wildlife and tracks.
THANK U ! I give two rats behinds about groups like that . I sure hope , it's 2018, I have no use for learning their useless skills . If I had a son , no use for learnjngvti salute the flag or fish or flag signals . What is this , the 50s ?? No f cell phones ? Totally hating wonen. And I don't even buy their cookies , not going to encourage any litle girl that this is acceptable . Ok ! I hate any group that promotes brainless orderly manly " and religious , of course ! people . Btw , a lot of child molestation on this groups too . By their religious youth leaders . Bliach !
I believe, and maintain that as a parent or any educator it is our responsibility to teach children how to think, not what to think.
If your child believes in a God, there is nothing wrong with that. But challenge it.
As far as the scouts go, if there are few other program around, then let them. There are other values that the organization has, that are worth it. Just challenge the bad ideas and nuture the good ones, like Socrates.
Yes ,give them direction but do not make them follow your road or anyone else’s . Inform and do not censor...challenge absolutely. Let them explore their life and if that involves religion, so what ...you can be sure that there is a conscious decision involved !
I was a boy scout and I played along with there religion stuff, but I knew I was just pretending. I do believe that it is a good organization that teaches responsibility to young boys
Don't let him join he'll get molested
Bull! Don’t pervert their minds by going there!
As positive as some aspects of scouting may be, I'd have a real hard time with this. If you allow it you're condoning an organization that does what it does in terms of religious freedoms.
On the other hand, it's a kid that wants to do outdoors related shit with friends.
So ya. I did not help. Sorry.
I was in scouts when I was a kid. Both my parents were athiest, and I was too, kind of. I had a great time and came out with the same view on god as I did entering it. I recall no mention of god or faith. I don’t know if the experience is the same today, but that was mine. I would say let him go.
If it were me, I wouldn't allow it. Interestingly enough, this issue came up here a long time ago, which led me to find out that BSA was chartered by the US Congress, so I find its belief requirements wholly unconstitutional.
So this sent me down a rabbit hole. I found Camp Fire as well as Navigators USA. Navigators sounds better. Is St. Paul too far away?
I would not let a son or daughter join the scouts for as long as I had control of the decision, ever. It is a religious indoctrination organization as much as it is a social organization and a skills organization. Religion is not a harmless difference of opinion.
I do not claim that this is the "right way" to do it, just my two cents.
I have a friend who is heavily involved in Boy Scouts of America. Her husband is a troop leader, her son is working on his Eagle Scout Project and she is a co-leader and like treasurer or something for the troop. She's been encouraging me to get my 8yo involved and her primary argument is "scouts is inclusive and not religious." There is one blurb about god or a higher power in their pledge. She says in their troop they choose to define that concept as "the voice inside of us that propels us to do good." So, it sounds like as an organization they are essentially secular, but that troops can have an individual lean.
After school Satan is where i would send my kids.
[afterschoolsatan.com]
If he wants to join the Boy Scouts, support him and get him signed up. He could do much worse. They do teach other worthwhile values and he seems to understand that the religion part is not a block to enjoying the experience. Teach tolerance. He will learn to accept others who may believe differently then himself. My son enjoyed scouting and I and his mother both helped out with the troop activities.
I can't encourage an organization that doesn't support equality for all.
With all 4 boys, it was a no.
The Cub Scout/ Webelo pack my son was in, was pretty dedicated to church. Our meetings were in a church. We had Scout Sunday once a year They did charity work for churches.
This was because of the leaders (one family) and not so much the scout organization, I believe. However, even at larger events I felt I was surrounded by believers. True or not, IDK.
We stopped going because my son got lazy about it. And I wasn't very motivated because it was mostly about playing and .....crafts!!! The actual boy scouting was very few, far and between. I was wasting my Friday nights.....I could spend that time directly with children. Blah!
So, it's worth a try. Probably depends on the local chapter
Childhood is all about exploration and testing of everything, even beliefs and religion. Continue to let them know what you think, but let them explore and discover. With any luck, they will be good at it and discover the scientific method. That should then be the end of religion.
The opinions on Scouting will be positive or negative based on the experience of the poster. I was in Cub Scouts even though I grew up as a JW and being a member of Scouts was banned but my buddies were all in cubs so my mother relented and let me go on the sly, it was a good experience. I didn't go to Scouts because of the hazing requirements and even at 11 I valued my freedom enough to not give into that peer pressure. I came back for Rovers in my teens because camping with girls was too good a thing to pass up, we did a lot of crazy stuff and it was a safe environment to mature in compared to some of my other peer groups that included punk rockers, nerds, bikers, mods and some other groups that didn't groove on camping.
I became a Scout Leader when the local troop was falling apart, in the worst part of town the Scout Troop had been reduced to a couple of kids from under privileged families in a church basement with a couple of old church matrons having them work on badge work. I changed the program back to the Scouting I remembered, got the kids outside, tripled the enrollment in a year and took them all camping and taught them woodcraft. I left the troop when I took on overseas projects but I am still in touch with some of the kids who now have kids of their own. There were sexual predators in the Scouting movement but I made it clear what would happen to them if I caught them doing anything harmful to the kids, they behaved themselves as far as I know.
The Scout Leader will make all the difference to your child's experience, if the kids express any concerns then get them out, otherwise you should let them have a lot of fun learning a lot of valuable life lessons.
And yes, the holy roller idiots asked me if I believed in a higher power and I said I did because hey who knows but I don't believe and god and haven't since I was a Boy Scout, it is still a requirement that they ask this question. I also received a Distinguished Conduct Medal from the Chief Scout of Canada who represents the Queen, the only Scouter to receive such an award in my region, so much for immoral atheists.
My personal thought is that there is far more to be gained from Scouts than reasons not to join.
Many in my family and lots of friends/kids (almost all atheists) have been involved with Scouts and have benefited from the experience.
Obviously, as in any organization, there may be aspects that aren't perfectly aligned with each of the members ideals, and keeping a good line of communication open is key.
Let him join. If you resist, then there's a chance he will resent you and could strain your relationship for years. Always be upfront with him and share your concerns. Hopefully, he will do the same. This would probably be a good time to tell him the truth about Santa. Tell him there are stories adults tell children to stimulate imagination and creativity but are not true (i.e. Santa). If these children do not discover the truth themselves or told by someone else, then they continue to believe in these untrue stories, pass it down to their children and so forth. This can lead to misinformation and false beliefs (i.e. religion and gods)
Let him go, but also build a plan to expose him to other religions. The thing that made me realize theism was false was hearing them all spout the same thing, "we're right and the others are wrong".
I personally would allow him to go and then talk to him about the things he is learning. I wouldn't try to change his mind about anything, just ask questions and prompt him to think through things. I do that with my kids and they are pretty good about coming up with reasonable answers.