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Road to theocracy

What do you think is the best way(s) to separate religion from politics and politics from religion?

DoublePlusDanny 5 Sep 25

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29 comments

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4

revoke any church's tax exempt status of it or its minister engage in comingling religion and politics.

Actually churches pay taxes in some states (Arkansas for example) doesn't stop it.

4

Just wait. The younger generations are so much more secular than their parents. Secularism is spreading faster than at any other time in US history.

3

I agree with Eric Idle of Monty Python fame who said once that he was a strong believer in the doctrine of the separation of church and.. planet.

How true.

There's no way to separate religion and politics as long as religion exists. Religions aren't about religion; they are about power. Politics is about the structured application of power. Religions are attracted to politics like cats to mice.

3

Maybe if the blue states stopped bankrolling the red?

3

I don't think you can separate religion from politics without eradicating religion from the face of the Earth. Small project. If we just roll up our sleeves we can knock it out in a couple of weekends.

2

For starters, by stopping Kavanaugh.

2

Teach about all the religions in public schools: let there be for young people no escape from the the following knowledge and its attendant realizations:

  1. There are many religions around the world... (...so it follows that the one you observe is most likely a consequence of where you were born, and/or what religion your parents observed--and there are other options out there, which implies that you could conceivably think and decide for yourself what to believe--and there are other people out there just as human as you who aren't "on your team" but bleed red just like you do)
  2. Sometimes religions agree, and sometimes they diverge. Often they conflict... (so how can you know which one is "right"? How can you even know there is a "right" one to begin with?)
  3. Religions evolve, change, splinter, etc.; they are built from myths, folk traditions, oral histories, translations, omissions, etc. (...so how can they be terribly different from any other--fallible--human institution?)
  4. Religion has a dark side: conquests, inquisitions, coercion, extortion, lies, sex abuse, genocide, wars, etc. (...so you know what the real stakes are when you throw your hat in the ring of, say, the Westboro Baptist Church or whatever)
  5. Religion is totally optional; morality exists fully independently of religion (...so society won't go to hell in a handcart if people aren't governed by one)

TL;DR: Don't let young people grow up thinking any one religion (or religion in general) is infallible, or necessary, or in any way special or different.

2

Elect more Atheist politicians is about the only way.

2

Put Betsy DeVos in a cell with Bill Cosby.

@PalacinkyPDX Oh, well not the intent but I see how it could be interpreted. Point taken.

@PalacinkyPDX I don’t think he meant it as a rape joke. I think he meant that both Cosby and DeVos are guilty of crimes, Cosby legally and morally, DeVos just morally.

2

Burn down all the houses of worship when they're full?
No wait. I think there are laws against that.
Nevermind.
😉

But it was a passing thought.

Oh, no. That was a Waffen SS tactic in France, Poland and Czechoslovakia. I know it was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion....

@Byrdsfan It was also something done by the British during the American Revolution. It's a tactic that has been used throughout human history.
The SS were not doing anything remotely original with that tactic.

@KKGator OK! Well, I guess it's fair game then. Carry on! 🙂

2

It's too damn hard to do that in America. We are having a hard enough time as it is, stopping the evangelicals from creating a theocratic state. There are simply too many uneducated and incurious citizens for this to be feasible at the current juncture.

1

I think it can be achieved through a legal system that places secular law in the public sphere and religious law in the private. The notion of morality would be interpreted only in terms of crime in the justice system but continue to have meaning (along with sin) in the private sphere.

1

Good question. Politics is a system of lying and half truths that gets out a message by making statements that appeal to the individual. In the extreme it gets nasty. With religion added we find that it is the perfect marriage.

1

Ask those from countries that have accomplished this.

1

Is not going to happen , not in our life time and not in next near generations either . I don't have any ideas but I just remember what the late Mr hitchens said many times : been religious / believer / Christian = good person , high morals person .. politicians sell exactly this . W their fake lives ( and fake wives ??), w any opportunity to show how " moral " and good they are . It's part of the package .

Pls understand , not a smart cookie here or very well read , ( besides medical crap !), but if anyone can explain this to me on this site I ll be happy to learn :
I was told in college ( here in USA ), that USA was basically formed by people who " bye bye England " exactly for the purpose of religious freedom and individuality . Along w more ideas and reasons of course .
But on now days , talking about your religion and your faith to gods and blah blah while running for office is the norm and nobody seems to bothered by . It sells . I know people that voted for Mr bush ( the junior as?!&@ ), just because he was a man of faith . JUST THAT was plenty for them to accept him and his ideas as the best choice .
Some times , and especially when I visit New York , I feel in conflict . I live in an amazing country , MY COUNTRY NOW AND VERY PROUD OF IT , where the people are hard working and often brilliant and resilliant , where opportunities to learn and grow are offered , yet xstian boy and Mormon boy and any other bullshiter has followers exactly bcz of their " faith ".
It scares me .

1

Enact a law that states that any proposed law must be of a secular origin. For example, if someone proposes that the budget of planned parenthood should be cut because of abortions. That person would have to state why they are making their proposal without using any religious references. However, I think this would be very difficult to achieve without the religious complaining that their religious rights are being violated. Not that they aren't complaining about that now.

1

Start executing the politicians who bring religion into their politics. Am I joking? Maybe I am, or maybe I'm not O_o

Yikes.

@DannyC137 I'm sort of kind of being a little facetious, but I would definitely set an example and execute politicians who were known to be working against the public's best interest. Any politician shown to be corrupt in ways like being bribed by corporations etc. I think that might separate money from politics. The problem is that the politicians run things so it would never happen within laws or rules unless the population brought it upon them, and then it would be illegal. Kind of puts a damper on the whole representative democracy thing. Sometimes rules need to be broken though lol

@Piece2YourPuzzle by execute perhaps you mean remove from office by legal means or public referenda.

@DannyC137 No, by execute I mean extinction of their life.

1

The French are pretty good at it but it took a pretty brutal revolution to set it on its way in late C18th!

1

I think the United States has a pretty good system. It is not perfect, and can sometimes be abused one way or the other, but I think it has been pretty successful at keeping religion out of politics. You can't control what people believe, so I think having religious people in government is an inevitability, given how many religious people there are in the world, but you can have laws that say that the government cannot actively favor or promote any one religion, which is exactly what the laws have upheld in the US.

In terms of separating politics from religion, I don't think there is any way to do this. Churches will always have their own political agenda, and promote it to their benefit. I know for many churches, politicking is frowned upon. But for others, it is just how things are. The only thing I can think is to encourage people to be more involved with the apolitical churches, but even then, politics does seep in in some ways, and people get up in arms and offended when it comes to light that certain people hold certain political beliefs. So I don't think it is really practically feasible to extract politics from religion. It always has existed there, and it likely always will.

1

I think teaching differences across religions is a good starting point to make people stop living in their bubble. Most of my atheist friends came to realize the absurdity of their belief systems when they studied the various contradictory claims of other religions, which are impossible to coexist. So, the best thing would be to get personal beliefs out of the system. How ludicrous would it be if cow worshippers in India took control of the government and imposed their ideology on other people, and how is that any different from those wanting to impose Islam, Christianity, or other widely-practiced religions? Of course, it's easier said than done. I guess we'll know the answer when the Iranian people succeed to topple the Islamic regime.

1

vote blue.

g

1

Be apolitical. Be athiest.

@PalacinkyPDX Then I guess we aren’t trying hard enough.

0

Taxing churches that take political sides.
Educating our children.

Oh, one more thing. Read the first fucking amendment and don't let the religious lizards slither away from what it actually says.

0

We have the 1st amendment. That should be enough.

0

Whoa. You pushed one of my buttons with this important question. I don’t have a priblem with religious persons in government, so as they understand the necessity of keeping the separation. Unfortunately, I suspect that far too many religious persons are religious because they don’t understand the inherent problems that result from muxing religion and politics. This problem is sticky because the first amendment is a double-edged swird. I’ll think on it.

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