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Outside Time and Space?

What would being outside time and space be? I hear theists say that God has always existed and they place God outside time and space. Why? And isn't that the same as saying God has always existed and he existed in nonexistence? My response to that is good we both agree your God never existed.

#god
paul1967 8 Oct 15
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40 comments (26 - 40)

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2

"Is outside time and space" is the same as "is not". So I think you have it right. Put "God" as the first word in the two phrases I just quoted. See? ?

2

A wormhole exists outside of spacetime and is interdimensional..

Does it or is it the bending of spacetime? I'm asking not telling

@paul1967 it exists outside of spacetime.

@Charlene If you don't mind me asking and please forgive my ignorance, but if you take away spacetime what exactly is left? And how can any dimension function without time or exist without space? If I travel from point A in a wormhole and travel through something without spacetime, how could I emerge at point B? Would I not cease to exist the moment I entered point A? Sorry for all these questions but if you have the time to explain this I will try my best to understand your response.

@paul1967 the theory extends from a Blackhole/ singularity to another Blackhole/singularity...as you know spacetime is warped within them..in essence null spacetime..

2

Existing outside time and space is IMO unimaginable.

1

Wow, I loved this, just loved this and I shall use it myself, Thank you

EMC2 Level 8 Oct 31, 2018
1

It is the same as saying that God has always existed and that He exists outside of the space-time continuum of our universe, but not that He exists in nonexistence.

Then what did he exist in before reality took place. If it is nothingness then he is of nothing. No matter how to spin it , it remains a shallow circular debate, Either God is real or not and so far it is NOT>

@EMC2 Who said anything about existing before reality took place? I don't know how much you have studied cosmology, but that which exists outside of the space-time continuum of our individual universe is still part of reality, just not part of our observable universe.
I do not believe in God, I am just trying to explain the theist argument to you and answer the question you posted. Not ALL theists are idiots, after all.

1

Well some theorize that the Universe is "ballooning" or creating mutli-verses. Anything outside of this expanding universe.. is still some kind of matter..though we don't know what.. ? So, what would be outside of the expanding Universe? It's beyond me and my understanding to know how God could always exist.or come into "being" at some point. I guess that is why so many of us agree that there is no god.
Is time related to the observer?

the problem with this multiverse theory is that, mathematically make sense, but it can't be tested.
It can be a real phenomena, it can be just a mathematical artifact

1

I like that one!

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How can anything exist outside of space and time? Can we even comprehend that scenario? If there is no space and "time", is there anything? Is there such a thing as non-existence in terms of universally?

1

When they specify what they mean by 'God', 'time' and 'space'. we can start a discussion. Until then it's just a word-salad that doesn't merit my time.

1

Gods god is outside of eternity.

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Taken literally, I suppose some of these comments are pretty much on the money. However, the phrase is not used as a literal statement, but as a way of saying 'not constrained by' time or physical space. If you attempt to use the 'argument' as presented, you will be slammed to the mat and counted out in a big hurry. It sounds clever on the face of it, but in fact it is not.

We already know that debating with the masters of animated goalposts is an impossible chore, even with solid positions based in real logic, so why go in with a guaranteed loser?

I don't think I would lose presenting it this way and here is why. Theists used to say God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Now they say God is maximally powerful and maximally intelligent because God is constrained by the logical. As an example: Can God create a rock so big even he can't lift it? That statement shows God can't be all-powerful and at the same time all-knowing hence the term maximally was introduced. Can an action occur without time can a thing exist inside of no space? If they wish to rephrase it to God is in his own time and space then let them move the goal post. I don't think going up against this argument is a guaranteed loser if you push them with logic and force them to be consistent.

1

As for the theists god bit it just another bit of bullshit they can't explain and can't justify so is meaningless.

But on the actual question of existing outside of time and space. There are some parameters which would influence an answer but wouldn't it be another dimension because that would be outside our time and space but not necessarily there own?

I await the deluge of intellectual stuff with baited breathe lol

The thing that bothers me the most with the cosmological argument is the question of, how something came from nothing, is answered with a definite God did it from outside time and space. What about that argument is convincing to anyone? It asserts that there's only this one possibility and since science can't demonstrate that it's not the correct assumption, this assumption is the one we should all believe. First, we don't know that the universe did come from nothing or that the cause has anything to do with an all-wise all loving thinking agent. If it were a being creator, I would assume based on the size of the universe and conditions within this universe that it doesn't give a rats ass about the life that arose on a spec of dust we call Earth.

0

as soon as time/space can be know none can answer what outside of either are as both time/space move

0

"What would being outside time and space be?"

I had to read this one repeatedly to make sure--I think at least--I understood the question. Just say it out loud, and see if it isn't a little tricky!

That said, we might as well ask, 'What would being outside the laws of nature be?' The simple answer is either 'nothingness' or 'supernatural.' And yet, what if there is existence outside our understanding of the universe? What if there exists a domain beyond our definition of space-time? Would not such a discovery be an expansion of our knowledge of the natural? What then is left for this myth we label 'God?'

0

Given that existence is defined as being able to be perceived as occupying space and moving through time, a being outside of time and space could have no motion and therefore could not be perceived as possessing any of the traits of existence, and therefore cannot exist.
I can only conclude therefore the contention "God exists outside time and space" to be a Self-refuting statement.

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