Three kids of my own all made it to adulthood, but there were an handful of incidents where it could have ended tragically. Not to mention when the kids get older, and are playing in the neighborhood with other kids. Anyone here remember launching bikes off of plywood?

When my oldest was 12, he and a neighbor boy about 10, had a disagreement. It escalated, and ended only after the other boy managed to nail my son in the eye with a piece of mulch. My son was taken to the ER, and had a follow up with an opthamologist. Had several wood slivers removed, and a tear on the eyeball repaired. It could have been much worse. The insurance called me for weeks trying to get the ID of the child.

Just to be clear, I would NOT have sought litigation if my son had lost his eye. Shite happens. It could have been the other way around, or my sons fighting amongst themselves. Point is, they were of an age where constant supervision wasn't necessary, and at times...children fight.

It was his dad's watch. Sunday afternoon. A couple dozen kids running and playing outside. Boys and girls, siblings and friends, all riding bikes, enjoying tag or a game of ball.

It was an accident.

@linxminx exactly, that guy is destroyed, regardless. And I do think he could have prevented it.

I'll never forget when my son Joseph, less than a year old, flew out of my arms like greased pig and did an end over end flip. WOW! ... ..Was I lucky I caught him on the way down. My wife and nephew both witnessed it. Shocked the hell out of all 3 of us. Happened in the blink of an eye

@twill Exactly my point. Kids are sometimes slippery little suckers.
They're also little Houdinis, but that's another story for another time.

@Triphid My younger sister stuck an aluminum screw from a window up her nose.
She was supposed to be sleeping, but she wasn't. She woke me up saying she had a "pebble" in her nose.
That required a trip to the ER.

Probably none. Does that mean we only punish in the absence of remorse?

@Deb57 Why should he be punished, exactly?

@KKGator should we just give everyone a pass because "oops!"?

@Deb57 It was an accident. A terrible, heartbreaking accident.
It wasn't an "oops". No one has even said that.
Where's your ire for the cruise line having an open window, in a children's
play area, 11 stories up?

@KKGator Of course I think the window in the play area is a terrible idea, and if the family sues the cruise company, odds are good that they will get a chunk of money. But they won't get their baby back. Of course I believe it is tragic and sad and I do feel some compassion for Grandpa. I don't doubt he's being eaten up inside by his terrible decision. But the bulk of my compassion went out the window and plummeted eleven stories with the baby. I'm 99% sure Grandpa didn't mean to do harm, but the baby is just as dead as if he deliberately chucked her out that window. If I, through some level of negligence, were to drop the match that ends up burning down your home with all your pets in it, is your first thought going to be about how the tragedy made me feel? I'm really glad I don't have to be the judge who must pass sentence on Grandpa, because I am a soft touch and Grandpa's grief would touch me. But the baby is still dead, and Grandpa is the reason.

@Deb57 to make the analogy a bit closer lets say it's your house. Yes I'm going to feel sorry for you.

@MattHardy I think you missed the entire point. It makes sense to feel sorry for the person whose house burned down no matter who owns the house; less so, though to pity the arsonist.

Yep.

@linxminx Got you... I don't want to bring in if alcohol was involved. Inocent, senseless act. Tough moment for the family.

I really doubt it. I'm sensing an over-zealous prosecutor.

I'm going to be unpopular for agreeing with you. There really is no margin for error and no learning curve when it comes protecting children.

@JimG

Agreed.

Not enough information for me to decide either way

@linxminx that's a tough question. A little fear isn't a bad thing. if Grandpa had had a little fear, maybe he would have been less inclined to put the baby in the open window. How do we measure the level of intention in a thing called unintentional injury and death? Do we just take Grandpa's word for it that he didn't mean to? Do we wonder if Grandpa may have been subconsciously resenting being stuck with baby while the rest of the family was in the jacuzzi drinking rum or something? Sure we assume Grandpa is just sick about the fact that he killed baby with his lack of basic caution and poor decision making, and most likely he is. But we can't read Grandpa's mind. Do we just give every killer a pass who makes this claim? I'm not outraged. As a matter of fact, I do feel sorry for grandpa. The consequences of his stupidity will probably haunt him for the rest of his life. I'm very glad I don't have to be the judge who sentences him, because I don't think I could, in good conscience, just let him walk away unpunished.A toddler died because of his carelessness. Carelessness is also abuse.

@linxminx we could start by not exposing them to unnecessary dangers for our own amusement. Again, how could you possibly justify holding a child over a 120' drop? I cannot by any stretch of the imagination conceive of any scenario where this is anything but recklessness that goes way beyond any semblance of reasonable behavior.

@linxminx I'm not judging him, I'm stressing why I feel he should be charged. If in light of evidence those charges don't hold water, so be it. I don't really care about your snarky slights or implications, but the truth remains there are plenty of precedents where people have been charged for unintended consequences. I'm done debating you. At this point your personal attacks show that you don't really have an argument.

@linxminx I'm not saying he's guilty of premeditated murder or that he's even a bad human being. I'm sure he feels awful, at least I'd expect him to, but emotions aren't at issue. The question is did he unnecessarily put a child in harm's way through carelessness. The fact that a child he was supervising fell 11 stories to her death is significant evidence.

What I've read that are supposedly his own words also indicate that he didn't even make a cursory check of the window nor did he, in my opinion take reasonable precautions to protect the child. If I put myself in his position holding a child up to pound on a window, for whatever reason, do I expect the child to thrash around and possibly slip from my grasp? I think that's a very strong possibility. Now even if I'm not 11 stories high, and the window is securely fastened, is there a reasonable expection that falling from my grasp could be injured, again I think there is.

Based on trying to see things from his perspective, I don't think what he did was sufficiently prudent. Again, charging him is far from convicting him; so let's see what happens when all the evidence is presented if this goes to court. For now, I'll be honest and tell you that if I were interviewed for jury duty in this case, it would be the defense who dismisses me.

@linxminx I won't stop it because I'm not wrong, and being bossy isn't going to get you the result you desire from me. The man caused a death. There are consequences for causing someone to die. Incompetence is not an excuse for getting away with causing a death. It's unreasonable to expect that.

@linxminx here's a little helpful hint about navigating social media: sometimes people are not going to agree with you no matter how much you argue with them or how pushy you get, and you'll just need to get over it. This is especially true when the issue is one containing a whole lot of ambiguity. Everybody participating in this conversation can express their opinion freely, and it's okay if we disagree, since none of of possess any actual decision making power over what happens to Grandpa. We can't really know what was going on here. While it's most likely that Grandpa just made a tragically poor error in judgment, it's not impossible that he saw the opportunity to make an annoying toddler's death look like an accident. We can't read his mind. My opinion comes, in part, from the fact that there has never been an instance in my life where I have escaped consequences for a poor decision. As a matter of fact, there have been many times that I suffered consequences from poor decisions made by someone other than myself. Consequences happen. If Grandpa is lucky, being haunted by his own horrifically poor decision may be the only one he suffers, but somebody died, and so that means it has to be investigated and conclusions must be drawn. As I mentioned before, I'm truly glad I have no actual control over the outcome of this particular case, because I'm pretty freaking angry at this reckless, negligent old man I've never met; and I could not be relied upon to make an impartial judgment.

So because the guy may be a moron, you'd have him criminally punished?
It was a horrible accident.

Remember when Eric Clapton's young son went out an open window??
The cleaning lady left it open, not expecting the 3-year old to come into the room and throw himself against it.
She wasn't being negligent, she was cleaning.

The two circumstances are entirely different. Grandpa was left in charge of the child and actually put the child in danger. The maid was not in charge of the child, the child was not present when she opened the window, and she was probably neither aware of nor responsible for the child's whereabouts. Unless we are going to take everyone at their word that they "didn't mean to" injure, maim, or kill; we have to have laws that apply to everyone.

@Deb57 Both were accidents. No one had malice of intent.

I think the larger issue is the cruise ship having open windows in a children's play area, 11 floors up.
The grandfather never even considered that kind of hazard would be there.

I realize that I'm taking the minority position, but being a caregiver, I can
see how easy it is to just blame the grandfather, and not account for all the contributing factors.

@KKGator agreed but how was he so careless to lose his grip, when I played with my kids I was always kept a firm grip

@bobwjr I understand your point, BUT, little kids can be squirmy AF.
Some of us can lose our grip on a squirmy kid.
It's happened to me.
I have no doubt that the grandfather is completely heartbroken and beating
himself up mercilessly.
The parents aren't blaming him.
Neither am I.

Simple answer life happens. We as humans will never think of all the possible scenarios that could happen to a child or even our selves at any moment in life. If we did we would to scared to do anything let alone explore. Feel very sorry for the family The grandfather is probably going out of his mind having to deal with this lose

@KKGator I’m very with you on this one.