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Why don't people control vicious dogs? Yesterday's Rottweiler attack.

While hiking and snowshoeing, I have been attacked by eight unleashed dogs while hiking and snowshoeing. It took six months for my knee ligament to heal after one dog attack.

"He's friendly!" the dog owners called. The did not control their dogs despite my plea, "Grab your dog's collar! He is required to be on a leash!" None of the dog owners apologized. Sadly, I went from being a dog lover to feeling terrified of strange dogs.

Rottweiler attack

Yesterday while snowshoeing with Karen, a large Rottweiler barreled down the trail toward us, barking and growling. The dog owner was nowhere in sight. A woman in her 20s, she was meditating above: out-of-sight and oblivious we discovered later.

"Get behind me, Kathleen," Karen said kindly. She bravely drove off the Rottweiler by hitting and stabbing it with her hiking poles. Although she carries cougar spray, she didn't have time to get it out of her pack.

Karen says vicious dogs are after her own dog, Bonnie, not me. Small comfort.

We calmed down over lunch with hot tea. It was gorgeous! Snow was falling, lining every horizontal branch with white. But the Rottweiler attack colored my experience.

How to repel attacking dogs

Pepper spray on a Velcro wristband irritated my wrist, giving me a painful rash. I ditched it.

Instead Karen taught me to hold my hiking poles vertically in front of me, swinging them vigorously, criss-crossing at my ankles. It works. Dogs back off. "Stop waving your poles!" one women yelled as her dog ran toward me, barking and growling. "You'll poke his eyes out!"

"That's the point!" I called without stopping. "Grab your dog's collar! He is required to be on a leash." She finally grabbed her dog's collar.

To my inner disgust, all of my female hiking partners let their dogs off-leash while hiking. Yesterday Bonnie went berserk when man on a fat-tire bicycle suddenly appeared. Ignoring Karen's commands, Bonnie continued barking madly and chasing the bicyclist.

He was affable. "You're in big trouble," he told Bonnie with a laugh as he rode by in the snow.

When little dogs race toward me barking and growling, I throw my hands with hiking poles into the air, making myself look bigger. "ROWRR!" I roar in a deep voice, charging toward them. "NO! Get out of here!" They yip, turn tail and run back to their owner.

At Lake Clara and Marion trailhead, when we see one woman with her three, out-of-control large dogs, we leave and choose another trail. Karen has tangled with this woman's attacking dogs repeatedly on that trail. Not a leash in sight.

U.S Forest Service regulation on dogs

"Dogs must be on a leash or under firm voice control." This is too squishy. Everyone thinks their dog is under voice control.

Selfish, irresponsible dog owners are responsible for dog attacks. Refusing to control your dog is disrespectful toward other people.

Your thoughts?

LiterateHiker 9 Jan 26
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32 comments

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1

Shoot any vicious animal : human or 4 legs or snake..... raping or eating you is cause to shoot them first.... if you break a ski pole defending yourself from a vicious animal..... tell the owner : pay to replace it.... a choke chain rope can train a dog to hike alongside a human hiker .....report the offending animals immediately report to law enforcement jurisdiction over your park.....the gunshot heard after defending yourself may signal help in your direction

@Larry63Feminist

I will never buy a gun.

@LiterateHiker of course I remember your disarming leadership.... I was taught to shoot rattlesnakes rather than retreat into a nest of others..... when dog deaths outnumber humans bitten... the owners will keep their canines conntrolled

6

Most domestic dogs respond to command words (Sit, Stay, Heel) If you have that problem again try to use these words it will break the dog's hunting instinct and distract its psychology. Waving a pole at it might come off as an aggressive move to the dog. Just like turning your back to it and trying to run will make it more apt to chase you because when you do that its hunting instinct tells the animal that you are now prey.

6

I never trust my dogs in public. They're too unpredictable. I so sorry your experiences are tainted by bad people behavior.

5

I was mauled as a young boy by a german shephard while I was delivering newspapers. I have found that a significant portion of dog owners don't give two hoots about anyone else. I like dogs fine, but I have been bitten twice, underwent rabies shots and am allergic to dogs. That dog was put down by the city, I was the 3rd victim of record. I am not surprised at all. Glad you were not hurt. I defend myself now, when a dig tries to bite me, I kick as hard as I can. They seldom return for another go.

Having said that, I have had several dog friends. I still miss my neighbors dog Oakley. We would drink and howl at the moon together. He was my soul dog.

5

I'm a huge dog lover. I've had several German Shepherds which were loving and protective. I always had them on a leash on a trail. I agree owners should respect the laws. I am protecting my dog from harm and respecting the public. I have known some loving Rotties and Pit Bulls which get a bad rap from inconsiderate and irresponsible owners.

5

A Rottweiler can be a great dog, if the owner educates him well, which seems not to be the case here. If the owner allows to run freely endangering the others shouldn't have it. Having a dog is already a big responsibility, a dog like this even bigger. You have the right to defend yourself, simple.

5

While riding my bicycle I treat all unleashed dogs as vicious. If one comes at me I'll use my tire pump as a club. I haven't killed one yet but I would if necessary.

4

It is entirely possible to train a dog in such a way that it will always obey owner's commands and not get out of earshot of them. But I would imagine one in a hundred dogs are that well trained, because 99 out of 100 dog owners aren't that responsible or committed to training.

My dogs are never off-leash on local walking trails, not just for other's peace of mind but because of the behavior of other dogs. Some of them are completely insane. Fortunately, leashing is required by the county.

4

I have a scar on my arm from a dog attack, it required 4 ER visits as it became infected. Dogs should be leashed in public.

MizJ Level 8 Jan 26, 2020
3

That sucks that something you enjoy so much is being made into a fearful occasion by people who aren’t following the rules.

I have a 20# fluff ball of a dog that adores everyone. However I understand some people are afraid of dogs. I also understand that my dog doesn’t automatically love every dog. And certainly every dog is not going to love him! Not only are the owners putting other people at risk, they’re putting their dogs at risk as well! It can be the sweetest dog in the world, but if it barrels off leash at an unfriendly dog, it’s going to get hurt!

Love you and hope you are able to stay safe. I’m glad your friend showed you how to use your poles on a charging dog

I used to have a very protective dog. I kept her on leash when out, but other dogs ran over to play (despite her clear body language) and got attacked, more than once. She was loving and obedient but a serious threat to anything that she felt was "too close".

@Burner my dog will bark his ever loving head off at someone but as soon as they get close he’s cowering behind me. I honestly don’t think there is anything anyone could do to make him bite. I seriously think he’d just run away if someone attacked me and I let go of his leash.

However, the dog my ex husband kept, her first instinct is to bite! I can’t tell you how many people that little shit bit. We would lock her in another room when people came over.

@Marcie1974

Thank you for your kind, insightful and supportive reply. I appreciate you.

Hugs, Kathleen

3

I’m not sure. I insist on muzzling my parents’ terrier if I take her for a walk as she likes trying to bite men’s calves and other dogs’ noses. My parents don’t because, ‘she doesn’t like it’.
Perhaps because they are in denial as the dogs are in the home and placid most of the time?
I find it bizarre, and quite upsetting too.

When I walk kirby I always have him on leash... even if he runs between me and my friend his leash stays on so we can quickly catch him or regain control if he wanders off.... in the past he wandered off FAST and got attacked by an aggressive off-leash dog.... I think that experience scared me more than him. I yelled at the owners and threatened to call animal services on them (they gave me their phone number). I did call animal services and they said they'd need the owners' address which I obviously did not know... lucky for them! Now kirby is aggressive with other dogs first, as a don't fck with me motive, because of that damn dog. So for other dogs' safety as well as his, he is never off leash with me.

@demifeministgal yes, my brother’s little terrier got attacked by a German Shepard when we were out with his young boys. We had to play it down because of the boys, (thank goodness she wasn’t seriously hurt), but it was harrowing. She still has a lovely nature though, thank goodness.
Such a shame, at least you take responsibility for ensuring it doesn’t end the same for other dogs.

@girlwithsmiles What pisses me off is that owner's dog is scared of dogs smaller than it and the owner allows it off-leash at parks! It is a HUGE dog so the vast majority of dogs in the nieghbourhood were smaller than it and at risk of attack. It tried to attack kirby again when my sister was walking him, but she took a defensive and dominant stance in front of kirby towards the dog and the dog backed down. I was tempted to stalk this stupid owner to find out their exact address so I could have his dog taken away. He has no business being a rescue dog owner if he pulls dumbass stunts like this. dumbass young guy.... makes all young people look stupid -_-

@demifeministgal it’s a shame that people with no interest in dog training or behaviour seem drawn to dogs that are challenging to train 🙁 I’m sorry you have to deal with that. There used to be a shepherd owner at my old dog park and when she was in there no one else would go in. She’d call her dogs name over and over, Caesar, I remember! No control. Good luck, hope you all stay safe.

@girlwithsmiles My sister no longer lives in the neighbourhood or even city where said violent dog lives. Hopefully, they do not cross paths with another aggressive dog in their new city. Kirby is in doggy training/socialization classes to re-train him 🙂

3

Sad to read about that.
And as a 'professional' on the subject. I never believe the concept of 'he's friendly'.
A dog is predator and for what ever reason a danger. They may see killing your accompanying pet as food or you as a threat... or food. Can't help it, it's what they do.
No such thing as an evil dog - Bollocks! There are evil dogs in the same way as there are evil other creatures too. That's just part of life, and remember there are psychotic bunnies out there as well.
Dogs are pack animals and need hierarchy and discipline. You cannot negotiate with a dog, they must have their place reinforced on them. When owners try to give their mutts an equal standing, then trouble begins as they have surrendered control to the dog.
Dogs will often try to protect the pack and its leader, so if they show exceptionally defensive behaviours where they are likely to attack others, training and or physical restrictions are needed. A dog may well give its life for the pack.
How to defend yourself quickly without killing the dog. Sometimes you have to be nasty. One or two dogs and you may be OK, but anymore and well, you know that already. So, a handy weapon that is quick to deploy. A collapsible umbrella, pop it open right in the dogs face, this confuses and scares to dog, plus it cannot see you and gives you a barrier between them and you. Now flap the umbrella so it appears to attack the dog, Shout scream and be aggressive even if you are backing off. Shout for help of course.
I used to be a Postman years ago and my late wife was a Veterinary Surgeon.
Lastly, if people cannot control their dogs, they must be banned for having them.

3

How horrifying! And even more so to hear how frequently it's happened to you. It seems that there are too many people with blinders on about how well-trained their animals are. I know a number of people who, even in suburbia, carry pepper spray because of how often leash-less dogs have come at them. How tragic, because a truly well-trained dog is a joy.

@Lauren

You're right. I grew up with two large, well-behaved, loving Labrador Retrievers. Lady won the Michigan State Obedience Championship TWICE. Mom trained the dogs.

"Lady, down, stay," we ordered as kids. We napped on Lady. She didn't move until released.

I grew up in a lakeside house with a golf course across the road. We were five houses down from the first tee. As kids, we ordered Lady to "down, stay" on the front lawn. White golf balls piled up on the grass around the dog. Lady stayed in place.

Golfers took one look at the huge, black dog on our front yard and kept going. We released Lady and ran down the road, where we sold the golf balls back to the golfers. 🙂

Photo:

  1. Lady with me, 10, and my siblings at our grandparents' house.
3

Wrong these people think they can do what they want, I don't worry learned how to combat this in the army

bobwjr Level 10 Jan 26, 2020
3

i own 2 dogs myself, one is a blue nose pitty, when she is out side my yard she is always on a leash, dogs are still animal with instincts never know what they will do. I love my dogs, but leash is something all owners should do. sorry this happened to you. the best advice with a pissy dog like this, stand your ground, show it you are in control. if need be thump it in the head. I had a neighbor that has a rescued pitty she was old, she was mean, she came threw my door after me once, like i said once. We lived in a duplex. basically as it came threw i thumped the dog in the head pretty good with my fist. after then i came home, that dog would come out side and lay in my lap and just happy to see me. This is because the dog learned, i am above the food chain as they say, dogs will always back down to the alpha.

3

I agree. My thoughts on this are simple. I am a dog lover but not a current dog owner. If the dog is menacing and unruly it is because the animal has an ignorant owner. Dogs adapt to the personality and wishes of the owner. Most dogs react to and carry out the voice commands of the owner. Dogs that are in control tend to like what the owner likes.

2

I hope by saying you've been attacked 8 times, you are referring to the dog running at you aggressively barking, not actually physically hurting you. That is quite a lot of times.

I also find the attitude of many dog owners frustrating. I had a friend whose dogs were her babies. After I had my first child, we went over to her house and at first my daughter loved the dogs. But then one day the biggest dog startled her by suddenly barking when she was inches away from her. After that, any time we went to my friend's house, my daughter would desperately try to climb to the top of my head to get away from the dogs that would jump up on me the entire time. Needless to say, we stopped visiting soon after that. My friend had kennels she could have put the dogs in but apparently she didn't feel like her dogs should be put out to spare a frightened little girl.

@UpsideDownAgain

On Riverfront trail, a dog on a leash suddenly lunged and sank its teeth into my ankle. The owners yanked the dog off me and ran away. No apology or concern for me.

Snowshoeing on Devil's Gulch trail, two asshole women let six dogs go at the trailhead. With heavy snow, I was snowshoeing in a four-foot trench. The dogs raced toward me me as a pack, barking and growling fiercely. Two of the dogs leaped up on me, knocking me sideways in the trench and badly twisted my right knee. My face was at the level of two German Shepherds' bared teeth. It was terrifying.

"Call your dogs!" I yelled. "They are required to be on a leash!" "They're friendly!" the women called lamely, out of sight.

Meanwhile the dogs were still barking and growling at me. Somehow I managed to get away and limp to the trailhead, where there was tons of poop on the snow from their goddamn dogs.

I was too upset and hurt to get their license plates for the police. It took six months for my knee ligament to heal.

@LiterateHiker Yes, I did notice that at least one of the attacks was physical. I hope the rest were not. Once is more than enough, let alone twice.

That reminds me of another dog run-in. I was visiting some people I didn't really know and asked to use the bathroom. They directed me upstairs, warning me the knob was off the bathroom because they were doing renovations. In the middle of doing my business, their huge dog came in the bathroom and got really excited at my state of undress. The dog was trying hard to get friendly and I was desperately trying to get my knickers up with one hand while warding off the dog with the other. I think I finally got the dog out the door and kept him out by leaning against it while I put myself back together. Yes, it's kind of hilarious but it was horrifying at the time.

2

A simple answer to your question is, that many pet owners are irresponsible jerks. F-in assholes even.

One of my incarnations had me as a long time Vet Tech. There were more than a couple clients that came in, that laughed when they heard that one of the staff had been hurt by their pet (dogs, cats, whatever) in the course of an exam. In some cases those people were informed not to come back !

And when roaming about outside, the jerks run rampant - as do their animals . Because there's often no reasoning with such folks, the animals are left to pay the price. As much as I love all animals, I will not hesitate to fight back if being attacked. Sure - you can get all righteous about how the dogs - in this case - should not be loose - but fact is there's gonna be some. And in many ways pet dogs are more of a threat than a wild animal, because they have no fear of humans at all.

Besides various sprays, and poles, a small portable boat horn can be effective (not heavy to carry). It will not only startle, but hurt their ears (aw-w-w). And use those poles if you need to, stab, poke, swing, scream, out-crazy the dog !

I once smashed a large rock in a dog's face. He'd been jumping out at me repeatedly - with clear intent to bite, as I ran by, in my own neighborhood. I never saw him again ... oh well.

Again - no, you should not have to deal with this - but ...

2

I emphatically agree. A leash is necessary for the safety of everyone, including the dog.

Deb57 Level 8 Jan 27, 2020

Read how a dog on a leash was biting @LiterateHiker ankle on RIVERFRONT TRAIL and the 2 owners ran away with the vicious dog neither APOLOGIZED nor offered proof of rabies vaccination..... I repeat, if a vicious dog attacks me, a gunshot will prevent future attacks.....I love dogs and engage all of them friendly and free inside their homes.....I have never been bitten nor knocked to the ground..... outdoors, dogs and cats are predictably violent outside their indoor homes....their claws and teeth are sharp and dangerous.... lacerations and puncture wounds can be deep and infectious

2

It may be time for you to carry a gun. A few dead dogs will take care of the problem. Of course you may have to shoot the owner too.

@Jolanta

I will never buy a gun. I support gun control.

When I carried pepper spray, I was tempted to spray the attacking dog's owner. too.

@LiterateHiker I am with you there. Spray them to smitherenes

2

I agree with you totally

2

Linda and I both carry sidearms while hiking through the parks here in ohio. The only times I've ever pulled my gun in 15 years of carrying one here in the Miami valley was to defend us from dogs off the leash. I've not shot one.... yet. But it gets the dog's owner's attention. 🙄

Yes, I guess that would do the trick. Do they back off at the noise? Or have you not fired?

@girlwithsmiles
Um. Never fire a weapon as a "warning". A waste of ammunition. Plus... illegal. I just shout something like; "whoever's <dog breed/description> this is threatening me better come and control it or I'll kill it". When they arrive on the run and see guns drawn.... they usually take care of things.

@bigpawbullets oh, I see. Having never lived in America my knowledge of guns mainly comes from movies and gun ranges, so that’s good to know.

2

WOW,,sounds like if the owners will not leash there dogs,,Maybe the dogs need to leash there owner,,has to be one way or another,,which one do you think they will pic

2

If this is a frequent occurrence I'd sure try and have a repellant spray. One that hurts the dog a LOT, without injuring it.

@Mitch07102

Once I bought a small pepper spray on a Velcro wristband. The wristband cause a painful rash. I ditched it.

@LiterateHiker Perhaps something light enough to be velcroed to the front of a jacket, or some similar idea? Quickly, easily accessible.

As a boy, my brother had a paper route and would sometimes have to deal with aggressive dogs. Keep in mind he was a very athletic kid. (While not any kind of animal abuser, defense against an attacking dog is different.) If the attacker was small, he would slow down, and as it lunged, jump up from the pedals, and then drive his foot down directly on to the dog's nose, driving it into the ground and yelping, whining, in great pain. (He had the coordination, strength, and toughness to do this.) For larger dogs, he carried on his handlebars a spray bottle mixed with ammonia and water, emphasis on the ammonia. He would grab the bottle and maneuver so he could spray the dogs face, thus eyes.

He rarely faced the same dog twice, and never a third time.

2

It is a disgusting situation. Years ago I was walking on the beach. A big dog came growling and running right at me. Luckily I was carrying a big stick. When the dog was close I waved my left hand...the dog was distracted and I wacked his head with the stick in my right hand. When he fell down I wacked him again and he ran off. There are many TV commercials showing people walking on the beach with their unleashed dogs...I think they TV execs are responsible for this problem.

2

This can be hard to discuss as the first thought I had was to carry a gun. That is not a good idea as it immediately escalates the situation to a point where no one has any control. Do not need to hear about the "shoot out in the mountains", or "woman goes crazy, dog dies." However, people have to learn to control their animals, Can you Velcro pepper spray to the outside of your coat in a place easily accessed, protected so you do not get a rash? Would photographing the dogs to show what they are doing help you argue a case with the Forest Service? Or the Police? You probably will not get anywhere but if the point can be made will this help?

@dalvictor

I will never buy a gun.

On the front of my pack, there is no safe place to attach pepper spray. Have thought about it. My camera is across my chest and in front for easy access.

I never hike alone.

@LiterateHiker Sad that one only has the choice to put up with it. I know how to use guns but I do not have one and probably never will.

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