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What are everyone’s thoughts on the ACA?

I’ve always been a huge fan of the Atheist Experience and Matt Dillahunty but after the Woodford incident, it seems that there may good reason to remove Matt from my list of intellectual role models. What is everyone’s take on this? I have watched some videos that represent both sides of the argument, however it’s hard to tell who to trust. My intuition seems to indicate that Matt is on the side of moral opposition, however as someone who has been a member of the ACA Facebook page for years, I know how toxic the environment can be there so it leads me to believe there is more going on behind the scenes than everyone may possibly know about.

PaleBlueDot 4 Feb 1
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31 comments

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17

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

I have to be honest with you.
I don't give a flying rat's ass about Matt Dillahunty or what goes on in Austin.
It's up to those members to deal with whatever situation they have.

Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean I share the concerns of other
atheists, or have any interest in atheist organizations.
The truth is I generally don't like most people, and I'm not much of a "joiner".

This site is probably the closest I've come to being a member of anything
resembling an "organization".

An organization of chaos - theoretically.

@Beowulfsfriend Yeah, but most of the members are entertaining. 😉

10

The Affordable Care Act? I'm for it.

10

Since this is a worldwide group, you might want to clarify what the ACA is.

9

Sanders can't make this much simpler; All these facts are checkable; please; try to prove me wrong....

To wit...

of the 36 most advanced nations, only one is declining in life expectancy.

...and it's that same one....the USA ...that also has more than double the cost of health care per person.

...and it's that same nation that treats "bankruptcy" to cover medical bills like it's normal; with numbers of bankruptcies in the hundreds of thousands compared to zero for the other 35 nations.

The solution?

Tax those making more than $250k per year more. Create a sliding scale that taxes the wealthy a little more....the lower and middle class less....so we can finally say we've MAGA...

Years ago I volunteered with an organization providing support for people with cancer, and it was the first time I became aware of how many people had to go into bankruptcy while in treatment ... or after. Some went through divorces simply to maintain some assets. These were people with insurance, and having to deal with that while fighting for their lives was reprehensible.

@Lauren It's so shocking that even Snopes had to clarify the numbers;

[snopes.com]

@Robecology Wow! This is criminal. And yet I can't believe the number of people I've tried to explain it to who have been lucky enough to have corporate insurance and not have a critical/chronic illness, who seem to discount it. They really believe this is an aberration that only happens to a minority of people who mismanage their money. I don't know how to change that.

@Lauren We have to take a "leap of faith" and vote in Bernie....he's the only one progressive enough to push health care for all...

See the Bernie plan numbers, above.

@Robecology No worries, I don't consider it a leap of faith - I consider it logical, and a necessity. I've read some of his books, and been a Bernie fan for a long time.

Just about now I'm getting really pissed at Hillary's crap, and the DNC once again actively working against Bernie.

@Lauren I'm not sure I see the evidence that "the DNC once again actively working against Bernie." Please share what you've found?

@Robecology Sorry, I'm rushing through and can look for others later, but stuff like this:

[politico.com]

8

I always thought the Affordable Care Act was a good start. It needs tweaking, but maybe that could happen if we can out vote the stupid, the religious, and the greedy.

Deb57 Level 8 Feb 4, 2020

We had 96 votes for HR 676 MEDICARE4ALL in 2010 but corrupt fake news like Rachel MADDcow never once reported the name or bill number so the corrupt Senate Bill was forced onto the House floor under gangster Pelosi against Kucinich Conyers and Alan Grayson 4 page Medicare buy in bill had 94 votes...insurance CEOs had their THOUSANDS OF LOBBYISTS bribe Senators and Congressmembers for the UNaffordable Care Act

@Larry68Feminist "Rachel MADDcow?" Really? It's possible to disagree with someone without middle school level name calling. Unattractive.

@Deb57 she is paid millions of dollars per year to spew lies and cover up corporations trillion dollar crimes....reducing all of that to mere disagreement IS REPULSIVE ....she is insane and drunk with political propaganda power ....MADDcow is a mild rebuke to MSNBC advertising bribery....but maybe I have slurred organic dairy livestock?

@Larry68Feminist I just find name calling immature and in poor taste. It usually says more about the person doing it than the person they are doing it to.

@Deb57 how many people have to die without healthcare because fake news Rachel promotes the insurance lobbyists talking points ? She NEVER reported the HR 676 bill number while often citing ACA proposed language....this is not incompetence....that was evil and she deserves maniacal names

@Larry68Feminist That's just another of the many, many, many points upon which your opinion and mine differ. Name calling is a turn off.

@Deb57 fake news Rachel....corporations front Rachel .....uncaring Rachel .....bribed Rachel .....betraying needy people Rachel ....calling her MAD is actually giving her an EXCUSE to continue in her job of dysinformation sheepdogging liberals away from real reforms pending and drumbeating the blame for failed progress on Rethiglicans ....Rachel will lose her job when she starts telling the truth how Democrats and Republicans are .in bed with each other for illegal wars profiteering in 160 countries....only 48 voted no to 758 billion dollars given to TrumpOLINI and he signed it .....impeachment was a dog&pony show to distract people away from the 22 trillion dollars borrowed since 1982 by all Presidents blue or red....lies out of their mouths truth voted and signed endless polluter oil war crime profiteering bankster zionism unabated and NOT REPORTED by Ms TRMP Maddow

7

The only thing ACA people agee on is that there is/are no god/s. Everything else should be open to debate.

Their treatment of Stephen Woodford was surreal, especially when they have a history of misogyny themselves. Woodford was protesting trans-women from competing in sport. (yes he originally worded it rudely and insensitively but this has been rectified). The ACA have no place being the moral police except when it comes to religion. I think it immoral to eat meat, but I'm not suggesting ACA should expel atheist carnivores.

I found it amusing that considering this forum is about atheism/ agnosticism, most Americans didn't recognise the poster's topic.

I agree, I assumed the acronym would have sufficed, especially with all the context I provided with it.

@HoldenSondergeld I thought the question was going to be about the Affordable Care Act. It wasn't until I clicked on it that I realized it isn't.

@Leontion I’m not 100% sure what to think, I haven’t kept up with the ACA and was “late to the party” on the subject of Woodford. Once I heard about it I tried to do research and watch videos in defense of both sides but I still feel like I’m missing critical information to have an informed opinion. My post was purposely vague regarding my position because I wanted to start a larger conversation on this forum so I could read others’ perspectives in an attempt to hopefully align myself with a clear stance. It should be noted that do understand the issue with the Trans community and am sympathetic, but I am also concerned that Matt may have been thrown under the bus. I don’t think it’s all that controversial to point out that while I do support liberal causes, sometimes they can become a distortion of their original purpose. As such I want to be sure whether or not it’s a case of bigotry by Matt or an overreaction from people who are ultimately doing harm to the Trans cause.

@HoldenSondergeld Feminist Atheist Greens are not immune from Trans Community attacks.....I think that once athletes have completed their sex reassignment surgery and hormone therapy, those athletes should be allowed to compete in their new sex categories.....however pre-op trans do scare girls and rape victims with their visible penis in group bathrooms swimming pools and athletic arenae

7

The ACA finally gave healthcare to millions who had none. It started out with good intentions but was altered and watered down by Republican party at the behest of health insurance companies who paid them off. The republicans are rabid about wiping it out because of hatred for Obama and everything he did

@bobwjr those games they play at the expense of citizens whose very life depends on it.
...so very wrong! Immoral!

@TimeOutForMe yup that's the republicans and trump, also this is a attack on poor people

Even though the federal government pays 95% of the funding for the Medicare option, Texas spitefully refused it and would rather have the highest uninsured rate in the country. Because of this, the ACA plans offered here are at a higher premium than other states, but most people don't understand why, and just complain about the ACA. Without it, I wouldn't be insured, so I'm grateful.

@Lauren typical for red states

6

Spelling out Acronyms the first time you use them is a good thing. GFY does not always mean "Good For You!" ;-D

6

Universal health care in America is badly needed and long-overdue. The Affordable Care Act isn’t perfect. Here are some of the specific benefits that people should be aware of when buying their own healthcare coverage.

Eight most significant Affordable Care Act health provisions

  1. Essential health benefits are required.

  2. Preventive services are free.

  3. Coverage of pre-existing medical conditions.

  4. Subsidies to help with the cost of coverage.

  5. Children can stay on their parents’ health insurance plan until age 26.

  6. No annual limits on coverage.

  7. Health insurance companies must spend 80% of total premium dollars on healthcare services.

  8. Congress must shop on the Health Insurance Exchanges.

[healthcare.com]

6

ACA stands for Atheist Community of Austin.

Thank you for clarifying.
*Edit: Can you edit/change the title or description to include what ACA stands for?

This is confusing for people because the Affordable Care Act has the same acronym as Atheist Comminity of Austin. It really would help clear the confusion by editing your post to reflect that.

5

I only knew ACA for Affordable Care Act which was murdered in broad day light by the Republicans...... and knowing this fully well Bernie is again fooling people by selling them cat's pee in a bottle and telling them it is holy water. The Republicans will win the Senate and House in midterms and neuter Bernie for the rest of his life and his voters.

5

Without the Affordable Care Act, I might not be alive now. It has brought the price of medical care down to where I can afford it. 🙂

4

It would be helpful if you explain what ACA is. (Christian something?)
I saw the heading and was prepared to give my views about the Affordable Care Act.

Please post both Atheist Community of Austin Texas and Obombneycare

I'm right there with you, as are several others who posted about Obamacare.

4

I see Matt as a debater and show host.
I am utterly uninterested in the private gossip in the nuts and bolts of running such an enterprise. I am ignorant of the details and as such any opinion I had would be misinformed by default.

I do not know what "the Woodford incident" is.

I do know they had some personnel changes, I neither know, nor am interested in the gossip around that.

Do you see humans as B&W or nuanced?
In my view a person can be spot on in one area and full of crap on another, we all struggle against bias and ignorance and we all err.

So does this unknown issue somehow taint all his other efforts?

This is actually not an unknown, issue. Perhaps it is to you however it completely tore apart the ACA as we know it. I have a certain respect for Matt’s demonstrated intellect regardless of this situation that you clearly have no understanding of. It also should be noted that in the case of the “Woodford Incident” I find Matt to be in the wrong. Also the situation is bigger than just Matt. I suggest you inform yourself rather than straw man my position on a subject you have no knowledge of. I also never gave a bold stance in my original post, I only wished to start a larger conversation so I could hear the viewpoints of all sides, I feel it’s the best way to avoid personal bias and hear all facets of the argument to arrive at an informed conclusion. Seeing that you have no knowledge of the issue perhaps refrain from saying that I don’t see people as nuanced when you didn’t even know my position until now?

@HoldenSondergeld When I say unknown, that is to me, I am ignorant of it.

"Perhaps it is to you however it completely tore apart the ACA as we know it"
Jen and Tracy left, that is all I know, I am responding in real time line by lin.

"It also should be noted that in the case of the “Woodford Incident” I find Matt to be in the wrong."
Woodford, is that the rationality rules guy?
That fisaco, some misunderstanding over current terminology or misunderstanding in science regaurding trans peoples?

I have no way to determine wheter matt is wrong, I do not know what he did. I know this much, the RR guy said something which pissed off the LGBTQ folks, and then folks inside the show took different positions on that.

"I find Matt to be in the wrong. Also the situation is bigger than just Matt. I suggest you inform yourself rather than straw man my position on a subject you have no knowledge of."

I am not using any straw man arguement I know of. If you are refering to this "Do you see humans as B&W or nuanced?
In my view a person can be spot on in one area and full of crap on another, we all struggle against bias and ignorance and we all err."

It is not a straw man, but an actual question. Are you of a mind that a murderder who then sacrifices themselves to save a child, should only be seen as a murderer?
If Matt is wrong, as you assert, is that wrongness so grave in your eyes that it besmirches all his other efforts?

THIS "I suggest you inform yourself", seems problematic. I did not catch the episode where the guy from RR was on (if I am right about what your on about here), did not catch the fallout (I don't do social media, no twitter, no instagram, no facebook, only this site (I hate ads). All I have is hearsay, and reactions of folks like you.

I re-iterate "I am ignorant of the complexities of running ACA, and all the work and juggling of personalities such an endeavor would require."
Such ignorance, to me, merits not rendering a judgement either way.
I miss Jen and Tracy, and have never heard them say boo about it.

"I feel it’s the best way to avoid personal bias and hear all facets of the argument to arrive at an informed conclusion."
I agree, but I still don't know what the arguement is, something to do with trans rights or something to do with how the ACA runs itself?

"perhaps refrain from saying that I don’t see people as nuanced when you didn’t even know my position until now?"
I did not accuse you of not seeing people as nuanced, I asked you if you did.
and I still do not know your position except to say you do not agree with whatever Matt did.

I still don't know what that is.

Sorry I pushed your buttons, was not my intent.

I fail to see why this issue is of such great import, honestly. By osmosis I gather the RR guy either misunderstood or misspoke about some issue involving Trans folks, they got upset, inside the ACA there was an arguement about how it was handled, and then a personel shakeup.

Why is this a bee in your bonnet and how can anyone help you remove it from there?

3

I am an atheist YouTuber and know many on the community. This is old news. Stepehn made a few mistakes in a video from ignorance. He was called out on it and addressed his mistakes publically. As far as Matts involvement I have heard no whispers about it. I think they are both great humans.

3

Recently the ACA had a big shakeup and several people are not there any longer. Jen and Traci among them and I liked both of them. I watch the Atheist Experience every Sunday. Some of this shakeup had to do with the LGBTQ people and where this show was going. I can accept that many of them do not believe also, so I do not understand this and I like and support Stephen Woodford. He did nothing wrong and it appears they threw him under a bus. It stirred up a big storm. Imagine the outcome here for a moment - the ACA supports LGBTQ people and community but now none of this is discussed in any light whatsoever.

As for Matt, my logic is very similar to his and I'm with him on most things, but he is currently the president and I'm sure he wants to stay there and also protect himself as well. Matt has his divorce and a lawsuit with Silverman going, and info on that can be looked up and should not be discussed on the show. I agree with Matt about 98% of the time on most issues.

I was also into the ACA Facebook page and then they threw me under the bus also. I'm on a desktop computer and nothing handheld where you can get instant messages. I made a remark that someone's logic on a certain subject was "sort of lame" and that did it. Suddenly I am making fun of people who cannot walk or have difficulty walking, etc. This is not what was said or what I meant. "Lame thinking" has nothing to do with crippled people or a 1611 translation KJV bible. I do not know any "lame" people. Horses go lame but in modern times not people. Anyone could see that I am not making fun of crippled people but the board of the ACA had spoken and I was banned from that Facebook page for not correcting my statement in time.

My best thought here is that it makes you wonder who is on the ACA Board of Directors and what have they been smoking?

Well said. For myself, I used to watch the Atheist Experience weekly, but now haven't for a while. It's still a good program, I'm sure, but when Jen and Traci left and some other things changed, I lost some interest. I may get back into it again at some point. It does certainly seem that the board had an extreme reaction to the Woodford situation.

Sorry to hear about your treatment on the ACA FB page. It's not the same thing, but I once commented on something Michael Shermer said about reducetarianism, the practice of cutting down on eating meat. As a vegetarian myself, I felt that was a move in the right direction and said so. I was immediately pounced on by two other vegetarians who felt that the entire world being vegetarian (or vegan) should be the goal and that I was wrong to accept anything less. Ugh. I was not extreme enough in that case.

@Omnedon I here you. I still watch the show but it is not the same without those who have left, and this is not to any benefit of the ACA.

That was a lame response to your response. So much for "rational thought". These people embarrass me.

@Omnedon Strict elimination of all animal products and byproducts from your diet runs counter to the goal of reducing animal suffering. I tried to debate cosmic skeptic on this point in the comments of the video where he asked someone to prove him wrong and he was too much of a gigantic pussy to debate me. He had a few fanboys attempt, but I dismantled their arguments and exposed them for the illogical pawns they are.

3

WTF??? After 45 years in the country, I still don't know what you are talking about. Never mind. I can easily live with my ignorance.

3

I have a few friends that this is the only way that they have insurance at all. One's son will die without it and they won't be able to be covered because it will be a pre-existing condition. Those that only see their own impact and not consider others...not my type of people. We need to get rid of the making a profit from healthcare. More industrial nations have healthcare than we do....because we let corporations make our government decisions.

@Larimar
Registered private Health Assurance Companies in South Africa are not-for-profit companies. You choose your plan type according to affordability and health status. The administrators of the scheme gets paid for managing the scheme buth they also need to maintain the schemes solvency ratio. The unemployed, disabled and retired people receive free treatment and medication provided by the state. Those that work and earn pay tax to make this possible for those that cannot afford it.

He's referring to Atheist Community of Austin.

2

My take: Matt is still an excellent resource when one is searching for truth on the subject of atheism.

If you saw him debate some of the other great thinkers in the "Intellectual Dark Web," then you ought to be able to answer your own question.

Furthermore, the ACA ought to be precisely what it is - yet another excellent resource for knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less.

People love politics, and even more they love stories and gossip. It's unrelated. Fuck that noise. I steer clear.

Matt and the team at the ACA have really helped me open my eyes and also have also encouraged me to start thinking critically. I say this as I'm from Cape Town South Africa and boy let me tell you that Religion and tribalism is extremely huge here. I'm thankfull to them for their generosity and enlightenment. As a result watching the show and many debates I now tend to lean more towards Agnostism only because they have indeed helped me with answering many questions which the Anglican church where I was raised in could not answer.

2

I used to love The Atheist Experience back when Russell, Jeff Dee, Tracie, Martin and Jen were in rotation as hosts. With just Matt it has gotten so there is no conversation anymore. He'll start yelling as soon as someone makes an invalid argument and end up hanging up on them. I still listen hoping they'll get an interesting call like they used to have, but in my opinion it's just not as good as it once was.

2

With atheism by core definition being illogical and atheist attempts to add or change the defination to make it appear more logical just so they can hold onto their title "atheist", it would seem to me that no atheist could be truely held as an intellectual role model by any person with any integrity.

Word Level 8 Feb 1, 2020
2

Never heard of it except as acronyn for obamacare.

g

Atheist Community of Austin.

@RhondaShotwell I am guessing a small enough percentage of ag dot com's population doesn't live in or near austin to justify the inclusion of that tidbit of info in the original post. Not everyone uses youtube as a philosophical backup. I certainly don't.

g

2

Huh? What does the one have to do with the other?
Your name ending (sondergeld) without money? You Dutch?

My first name “Holden” is Dutch for “From the Valley” but my last name “Sondergeld“ is German for “Special Money” I wasn’t aware of a Dutch translation, interesting.

@HoldenSondergeld - thanks.
In Dutch, sonder means without. There are different meanings eg minus, separate, remote etc
spesiaal/e and a few other words means "special" in Dutch. I can translate proper Dutch and German into English, just don't ask me to speak it. In Dutch (kitchen Dutch and kitchen French is Afrikaans in SA) I'll sound like I'm spitting (gaaa) or asking you to keep quiet (shhhhh) 🤣
...by the way all the Germans and Austrians I know in South Africa, are Atheists😊

@PaleBlueDot Holden is not Dutch aas far as I know. It is an English boy's name.

@TimeOutForMe sonder is not Dutch, you probably mean Zonder. And kitchen in Dutch is keuken.

@PabloNeruda Afrikaans is derived from a Dutch about 75%.
Sonder means without and kitchen is kombuis.
Chicken is kuiken in Afrikaans

@TimeOutForMe But Sonder is not Dutch, Zonder is. And Kitchen in Dutch is Keuken.

1

The ACA was literally the best option that would be voted in at the time. There are, of course, many other better options but they would not have been voted in. The ACA was a compromise.

1

I listen to many of the ACAs podcasts. Ive been a a fan of the Atheist Experience for years. I feel the same frustration with some callers as Mat does. I think many of them are just trolls. "If religions people could reason, there would be no religious people"(House). However, some of the acrobatic reasoning people use is truly mind bending.

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