Amen to that!

Not to brag but I've participated in a number of religious experiences, by that standard.

An important caveat!

time, place, and ticket admission costs please....lol

I think that’s exactly what god is.

@TheMiddleWay And when you lose the argument, that's really bad.

@TheMiddleWay my car talks back and I argue with it. I hate being told what to do. If I don't want to wear a seatbelt, it should be my choice!

I especially like your last paragraph, and I would suggest that when speaking of ultimate reality the concept of existence is by no means understood. If God is “some-thing we’ve not begun to understand yet”, maybe our lack of understanding is because we are thinking in terms of “things” as being that which exists, when actually there are no things except in our minds.

@TheMiddleWay I don't do illiterate or sloppy, too bad so sad for you....

@TheMiddleWay yup, it's a blanket policy.

@TheMiddleWay ummm, wrong again, the subject of the sentence is "this", singular, so "was' is correct. "Psychedics" is in the subordinate clause, clearly indicated by the "if" preceeding it. Duuuhhhhh. I learned how to diagram sentences in 5th grade so that the subject would agree with the verb...you, not so much, nor can you read your own citation. Truly sad.....

@TheMiddleWay go read the part about subordinate clauses, indicated by a comma & "if", "but" or other qualifier. As usual, not getting the facts, just lazy skimming.

@TheMiddleWay you have no idea what a "subordinate clause" is, do you......pathetic.......

And the diversity of atheists is vast. Personally i don't think we need a label. A-theists simply is the abscence of belief in gods. It has nothing to say on other areas of weird beliefs. Some atheists still believe there is fate, karma, some pull out the tarot cards or swear by the zodiac; some say they are Buddhist atheists and others believe in alien visitations and that world leaders are Lizard people. Are these the atheists to be dragged out for research? Give me the drugs and I'll do my own research!

No offence or bias or prejudice nor discrimination, intended in my view and response.

I am sure we have all heard same sex partners, answer these questions: were you born gay, lesbian, why didnt you come out all these times, etc

For me, I could trace my journey, alongside similar routes

I was born into a society that every one was and is expected to believe in something. Society frowns at 'nonblievers", mum and dad would not agree, but you must go to church on Sundays, jesus died to say your sins, your rewards await you in heaven, blah, blah

Moving to and living in a normal realistic environment and society, strengthed my believe in Science. Obviate needs to watch. Debunks the idea, only god can provide and save.

Hence, here, I am."out of the closet".

@TheMiddleWay I concede that I don’t know any more than the next person how I would definitely act...that is always going to be unknowable until after the fact. However, I know myself and my innermost thoughts regarding the existence of god ever since my childhood days, and if I had to bet money (something I never do), I’d say it would be nigh on impossible for me to reverse my lifelong held views, merely because I’d had some drug induced trip. Under the influence of mind altering drugs I’m sure I would be no different from anyone else, but that isn’t a permanent state of mind. Temporarily having the mind artificially confused is not the same thing as having one’s mind changed permanently.

@Marionville "and if I had to bet money (something I never do)"....lol.....Pick the Scottish woman! But with my father a Douglas and my mother a Mitchell, I hear ya!

@TheMiddleWay Sam Harris described his feelings of an incredible sense of caring and love for his friend, and other mind-altering experiences while on psylosiban. If a psychodellic trip changes one's perspective or even their worldview, so be it. But this only makes one want to dig deeper into the mechanism or causes and effects taking place in the brain.

One thing seems obvious, mind-altering drugs don't appear to impart a particular doctrine, religion or theology. So far as we know, there isn't a Christian pill, or a Muslim pill, or a Hindu pill, or even an atheist pill.

In that they run the gamut you're right. I would expect a difference between those who started in religious families and chose to become atheists, versus those who are atheist by default. Their parents were atheist and so they never had to make that choice or confront the self delusion.

@TheMiddleWay Hallucination wears off but imagination continues on.

@TheMiddleWay ok.

@TheMiddleWay I will respond with a Carlin Quote.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

I just finished it myself. Loved it. I did a lot of psychedelics back in the day, and I think that people don't have a word for what they experience when they see that there is more than our everyday reality.

@TheMiddleWay I’ve got a bachelors in math and philosophy. My switch to agnosticism was a philosophic move, and happened at least a decade later.

@TheMiddleWay After reading the Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics, I came to understand it was impossible to even understand God. The concept was itself impossible to conceive. Given that, the question of Gods existence became purely academic. I grew up in SLC around the mormons. I quickly became atheist in reaction to their pressure. That held sway for years.