Crosses are instruments of slow, torturous deaths. Guns kill faster and are therefore, less cruel.

@itsmedammit "Crosses are instruments of slow, torturous deaths. " I understand that is your view, though not shared by everyone.

@Flowerwall That is what the cross was used for. They nailed Jesus to it so he could die a slow, painful death. My understanding is that many were executed that way. OP was just trying to make a point to the cross wearers, many of whom don't even seem to think about the idea that they are holding dear an instrument of torture.

@itsmedammit The cross is supposed to serve as a reminder that christ died for our sins. Christians never implemented the cross, Romans did. Christians had far more creative ways of inflicting torture or death. see Spanish Inquisition. But I do understand that the OP was using the cross as symbolic of all death and torture imposed in the name of Christianity. It was arguably worse than islam.

@MsDemeanour Where in my answer did I imply that Christians used the cross for torture? I don't know if they did but I never even suggested they did. Whenever I think about Christians and their crosses, I think of how insane it is for them to worship the device used to kill their leader. I guess I assumed that is what OP was getting at with his FB friend.

"But I do understand that the OP was using the cross as symbolic of all death and torture imposed in the name of Christianity." Really? That wasn't my interpretation at all. Interesting how very differently we saw this. Maybe @GoodMan can tell us what he thought.

@itsmedammit ok my bad....you didn't say 'christians' used the cross as an instrument of torture but you did say "Crosses are instruments of slow, torturous deaths" and that Christians weren't aware of that fact.
I think they are aware. And as I said, they wear it to remind themselves that Jesus sacrificed his life for their sins or however the tale goes.

Thanks for pointing out that the OP was seeing the cross as a literal tool for death. It would be like having a trinket of a Catherine Wheel from the middle ages around your neck. Mind you if I did see a Catherine wheel around your neck, I'd just think you were into the wild west.

@MsDemeanour Yes, I think they are aware but somehow don't see how strange it might seem to some that the cross is a chosen symbol.

@itsmedammit Yes you're right......it does seem ironic

Nah we know all too well the USA is all about
Guns and Jesus

I understand and share your concern with open carry. I'm just a person that goes to the shooting range, and believes in self defense and home protection.

@GoodMan

Thank you.

" and believes in self defense and home protection"
Which is just a euphemism for saying you believe in the right to kill people and the right to own the means of doing so.

@OwlInASack I've heard,online, that gun crime in the UK was increasing. It's not the same as US, but increasing. At some point people should have a right to protect themselves, no?

@OwlInASack "no - crime has fallen consistently in the UK over a long period." Im really curious now. This was a specific conversation regarding guns in UK a couple years back, I was at first shocked at the idea because I didn't think there were guns even available to commit the crimes, but I think I looked it up and it seemed to confirm the notion. Also, knife crimes have increased there, I heard, which just seem way more grisly than shootings.

Sorry, this is supposed to be lighthearted and I'm turning it into a crime discussion, probably not right place

@VeronikaAnnJ

Here is a story on marking the first anniversary of the WalMart mass shooting in El Paso, Texas against Latinos.

[abcnews.go.com]

Amen brother. Lol.

mmmm.......if I have stuck down a dark alley, I'd rather take my chances with the guy with a cross around his neck than the one wielding a gun.

@MsDemeanour it's just as likely as not that the person holding the gun could be wearing the cross.

@Deb57 very true. It's odd that Jesus, if the stories are even half correct would be a left-wing pacifist.

Whoosh-Bang-Destroy, how could anything be more fun than that?

Do you clean up the messes you make?

@Lorajay Oh, it's a blast! Clean up messes?
Naahh! Watermelons, musk melons, cantaloupes, and coconuts are all bio- degradable!

@davknight Yeah, let's forget about the lead.

Life of Brian

@OwlInASack You're obviously correct. The extreme polarisation is interesting to see from a non american perspective. In most other countries target shooting is just seen as another sport like archery, or darts.

@OwlInASack lets face it, they'd be nice to play with, but the idea of using a gun on a person is an attitude that is not that prevalent in pther places. O visited cambodia where they have everything up to miniguns but no gun crime. I own guns, but the idea of using them on a person, isn't something I'd contemplate. If I disliked a person enough to hurt them, it wouldn't be with a gun and in self defence there are faster and easier strategies. Run like f#ck comes to mind, rather than stand and someone be hurt.

What do you see as the problem with posting shot targets? They are not intended as a threat or a warning in any way; they are only shared with friends that know me personally, and have expressed curiosity in what I do from time to time. I'm well aware of what happened to Breonna Taylor; what is your point in that regard?

@GoodMan if you have to ask, then why bother with an answer to your first question. Second question, boyfriend had a gun, a license, he even fired the first shot, now Breonna is dead. So much for home protection and self defense. Isn't that obvious to you that having a gun, a license, firing first, had only death of a loved one as a result?

@Mofo1953 So your point is that because one person was unable to defend themselves that nobody should try to be ready to defend themselves? That's frankly an asinine way of thinking. Some people die in car crashes even though they are wearing seatbelts and the airbags work, should we stop putting those in cars as well? What about all the people who have successfully defended their life with a firearm? Are we just ignoring them? I can point you to a youtube channel with literally hundreds of videos showing self defenders saving their own lives and the lives of others and those are just ones that have been caught on camera.

You know what you definitely can't rely on to save your life? The cops showing up. Not even bashing the police here, they are a reactionary force. They literally cannot be there to defend everyone. As someone who has been victimized because of my size and my gender, I can say that ID rather have the tools to try to defend myself then be forced to cower at the mercy of a criminal and pray they don't decide that today's my last day on earth.

@PixieStyx No, that is not my point. Therefore, you are the ass who made that asinine deduction. I am against owning guns, that is my point. Having a gun will not protect against someone who wants to harm you, there will always be people that will out smart you, out gun you and that will kill you regardless if you have a gun or not, there will be nothing you can do nor will the cahnces of you not getting killed will improve . I do not deal with theoretical scenarios, I only care about facts and statistics. Check the statistics of deaths by fire arms in the USA (which allows anybody and their mothers to own guns) and compare them to other high income countries that don't or that limit very strictly the ownership of fire arms. Learn something positive for a change and stop being ignorant to these facts.

@Mofo1953 Well you keep your defeatist way of thinking and I'll keep my self defense and I'll continue to hope with all my heart that you are never in a situation where you need to defend yourself.

@Mofo1953 Also I'd like to point out that while I referred to your reasoning as asinine I wouldn't dream of insulting you personally. Calling me an ass is frankly rude and uncalled for. As for your facts and statistics they fail to account for the hundreds of real world examples of people defending their lives. Perhaps don't assume that your research is exhaustive an infallible? It rarely makes you look like anything other then arrogant.

@PixieStyx the word asinine comes from being an ass or acting like an ass, look it up.
Here is the definition of asinine by Merriam Webster so that you understand that when you call anyone that his or her reasoning is asinine what you are actually saying is that what that person did is basically acting like an ass. Do not worry, many people use words that they do not understand, now you know:

as·​i·​nine | \ ˈa-sə-ˌnīn \
Definition of asinine
1: extremely or utterly foolish or silly
an asinine excuse
2: of, relating to, or resembling an ass

And, no, you are wrong again, numbers do not lie, they account for all the dead people be it for suicide or murder and that is exactly what I am trying to show you, ignorance is arrogant in nature, the numbers are not from research, they are statistics, again, look it up so you understand the huge difference on what is research and what are statistics provided by official channels.

@PixieStyx it is not defeatist, it is how I proudly live my life, 67 years on this earth, lived in several countries, many different cities in America and overseas, and I have never been attacked by anyone, never mugged, never had my home invaded, and statistically I do not see this happen to me in the few years I might have left nor do I live in fear at all, I am sorry that you do and of course you will do as you want and so will I. I prefer my outlook on life though, not living in fear of attack by anybody.

@Mofo1953 I am fully aware of the definition. Though I was referring to the first definition that being "extremely or utterly foolish or silly" however that's beside the point. I was referring to you specifically calling me an ass where I had only said anything about your opinion. Not about you personally.

I'm happy to hear that you've lived a safe life. I hope that no one ever needs to defend themselves. However having been the victim of armed crime more then once in my much shorter life I can't say i hold the same confidence that the world will just work around me and keep me safe.

@PixieStyx i wish you good luck with or without a gun.

I guess the cross could be a passive sign of violence depending on your knowledge of and interpretation of things.

@GoodMan I don't think so. The cross is a universal symbol.

@TheInterlooper Do you mean my kill/death ratio? About 85% (yeah, I know).

@brentan What cross are you referring to? I'm I'm talking about the cross of christianity...For the sake of clarity, I'll refer you to this link: [newworldencyclopedia.org]

The cross is an instrument of torture. I don't consider that passive. While both a cross and a gun can kill, a good shot would be more merciful.

@itsmedammit The passivity lies in the perspective of Christians towards the willing self-sacrifice of Christ.

Don't stand between the dartboard and the people with the darts you'll be okay.

@oldFloyd THanks for the tip. I'll bear it in mind. But you can imagine how much more nervous I'd get around people with guns. Of course, I've only ever seen cops with guns and they make me nervous enough. I can't begin to get my head around a culture that normalises guns.

@MsDemeanour the open carry thing bothers me too.

I once knew a bar owner, who took his pool table out, and installed a dart board, in order to keep down fights. Well, Americans tend to throw darts the way they'd chuck a tomahawk. And the dart board only caused more fights. So, he took it down and put the pool table back in.

@davknight Some people have to be morons no matter what game they play.

People about their hobbies all the time man, it's no biggie to take some pride in a skill you're good at

I believe that guns are tools also, and don't see the wrong in posting the results of my target practice to "friends." Just as with anything, I understand how things can be interpreted various ways. I see others post things that I wouldn't post, I just consider it a difference of choice, and evidence that we are all difference; not necessarily a bad thing just because I wouldn't do things their way. My shooting results are shown while discussing safe gun handling, and following the rules in place at a shooting range; not simply shooting to watch things blow up or "advertise" the rabbit that is no more. I also have a garden, but just because some of my posts aren't pics of it, doesn't mean I'm any less of a responsible gun owner or that I'm arrogant. I appreciate your candor!

@educatedredneck, @GoodMan And, why is it always guys

@Varn Well, my sister owns a gun (maybe more don't know) she also voted for trump, is a believer/Christian and very republican. Which probably explains why I don't know how many guns she owns, we don't really talk much.

@silverotter11 I lived over three decades in woods so dense you couldn’t see a neighbors place. Once, I tossed a nice handgun out of sight ..as the rack of a cop car slowly climbed my driveway … spinning it’s street tires.. “Where am I” the deputy asked? Had a gun-nut neighbor who scolded me for tossing the weapon, ‘you’ve a right to have a gun on your property,’ he lectured me. Yah, dead right.. thought I. But when the law is lost, you’d better stay prepared.

Guns are a tuff call… Someone mentioned above how prevalent they’ve become in the hands of idiots, definitely a serious problem. When I was a kid, they were still used for home protection, hunting or varmint control. Now, it seems they’ve become toys, quasi-military trophies and penis-extenders.. In a nation out of control, in too many ways to count, I unfortunately feel they’re necessary..

Having grown up with them, a daughter got her concealed carry permit. I understand, but could not have envisioned that loving child needing such a thing… But after a lifetime of ‘shooter drills’ at school and the political division and disintegration of our nation, I do now ..what she won’t be doing is posting her groupings on fb.. she was taught better than that ~

@Varn It really is how one is raised. My ex so was a marvelous marksman and supplied us with small game (lordy I miss the duck!!) and usually one shot one kill!! He did not hunt deer or elk tho. Lived in the woods also, miss that but not the responsibility of land ownership. The real issue is how did America end up with so many crazy gun owners? Maybe the real reason I don't target shoot is I am too cheap. Have you any idea the cost of ammo it would take to get me even remotely able to hit what I was aiming at? LOL truly the few times I tried it (we had a little target range on the property and also did some skeet shooting) were laughable.

@Varn there's always a handful of women shooters. I shoot in a field w a solid backdrop and have seen a few women there. One was Delta and does room clearing drills

@silverotter11 Yes, me being cheap was/ is another reason for not ..wasting ammo I came from a fishing family, still have cases of pints of Chinook I’d canned back in OR.. Dad always described deer as being more work than they’re worth. That’s been my experience, too. He’d spend an ugly weekend hiking them up a wooded ravine, I’d take out several from my front yard, and they were still too much of a bother..

As mentioned, a neighbor was a re-loading, cutting edge gun-nut. Taught me a lot, had his massive gun safe, would warn me when friends were coming to shoot - hundreds of dollars $pent in an afternoon, no doubt! They once shot a doug fir (tree) in half! He had a homemade cannon, too… He didn’t last long in the woods, though, had his priorities mixed up. When yur off on poker-runs with dirtbikes ..while your neighbor (me) is splitting kindling for your wife and new child to start a fire… something’s wrong

@educatedredneck Maybe I had too many acres for too long… My sister and her partner occasionally shoot, and ...I believe bush jr. was once a ‘target.’ I forget what sparked that … I think someone was posting shit on her partner’s fb page showing Obama shot up.. They didn’t post ‘their results,’ but she had shared them with me..

As mentioned above, maybe I’m just cheap.. Strange, the daughter who got her permit is probably the least likely to need it. The other one, much like her dad, just shoots when in the mood … but then she still lives near the hills. Her sister’s in downtown Portland, of all places

Had to have six within the three innermost rings. I think I did ok.

What kind of pistol was it (Make, Model, Caliber)?

@GoodMan Ruger SR40c. Son in law gave it to me as a birthday gift and mine were still packed.

Looks like you did very well! Good grouping, and I counted more than six within the three innermost rings.

@Larimar I bought my mother in law perfume and flowers.

@LenHazell53 my son in law knows his wife's mama. He gave it to me for protection since I'd been stalked and he'd already tried to kill me. He knew I was a good shot.

@Larimar presumably the stalker had already been arrested?

@LenHazell53 no, Missouri is not understanding of women's safety. For me, it was a choice between pissing him off and convincing him to finish the job, or letting it go and allowing him to forget.