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LINK Hundreds of churches will have to close, says Kirk

I don't see this as bad news at all.

Hundreds of churches will have to close, says Kirk
By Joanne Macaulay
BBC Scotland news

Reverend David Cameron will the present the report to the Assembly.

The Church of Scotland will have to close hundreds of churches in the coming years, the Kirk's trustees have warned as it prepares for its annual General Assembly.

The gathering of Kirk leaders begins on Saturday in Edinburgh against a continuing backdrop of falling membership and dwindling income.

A report going before the Assembly this week states that about 60,000 people worship in person on a Sunday, compared to 88,000 pre-pandemic, with a growing number of people choosing to worship online or in "other ways".

The Kirk said having more than 1,000 churches to cater for the number of people attending was "simply untenable and unsustainable".

Reverend David Cameron, a parish minister and the convener of the Assembly Trustees, will the present the report.

He said closing churches was a painful but necessary exercise.

"We feel first hand what it means to people when they've gone to their local church, they've got married there, they've had their children baptised there, and they've buried their loved ones from there," he said.

"We recognise the real sorrow but we do have to rationalise our buildings in an appropriate way."

According to 2021 numbers, the church has 283,600 members - down from a peak of 1.3 million in the late 1950s.

About 60,000 worship in person on a Sunday - down from 88,000 pre-Covid.

About 45,000 people now worship online and 8,275 in "other ways".

Each church averages just one wedding and one baptism per year - about 1,200 in total.

There were 50,000 per year in the late 1950s.

There were 430 professions of faith in 2021 (sometimes referred to as confirmation) compared with 40,000 at the peak of new members in the 1930s.

The average age of those attending church is 62.

Continuous decline
Reverend Cameron added that the Church of Scotland wanted its members to look with hope to the future.

He said: "Some churches will close but that will release a burden on many people, where there are only maybe 30 people there and of a generation that's now maybe finding it more difficult to manage.

"Uniting congregations brings a new lease of life and a new energy, and looking to the future in a way that's much more hopeful than trying to maintain the portfolio of property that we currently do."

The trustees said another problem is a lack of ministers, with more vacancies than ever before.

The vast majority of ministers are over the age of 50 and could retire in the next 10 years.

The church said this was putting lots of pressure on existing ministers to cover vacant parishes in addition to their own.

St Kentigern's in Kilmarnock, East Ayrshire, has been without a full-time minister for more than seven years.

As in other parishes, members of the congregation have taken on some of the roles of the minister.

Rev Sally Foster-Fulton will be installed as the moderator of the General Assembly

Reverend Grant Barclay - who was the last minister at St Kentigern's - said more lay people being need to be involved.

He said: "Perhaps the job of ministry now is to encourage very many more people who thought their role was to sit in the pew to be up and take an active part in the whole work of the church, in worship-leading and preaching and in visiting people pastorally.

"The main difficulty we have is that people aren't coming forward and offering themselves for ministry, and even if they did the church might find it difficult in years to come to pay for them.

"So there's that double bind - a lack of people now and the potential lack of finances to pay for them in the future."

But as churches close, the Kirk is looking for alternative places and ways to reach out into communities.

At the Gyle shopping centre in Edinburgh, the Church of Scotland now has a space where people can hold meetings and come for advice or company.

Church buildings
The local Church of Scotland is the Old Parish at Corstorphine, where the minister is Reverend Moira McDonald.

She said having this space recognised the changes in society.

"It's about the church understanding what our role is," she said.

"It says 'we're here to serve the community'."

Reverend McDonald said: "Our church is at one end of the parish and this is at the other end of the parish where people do different things.

"And the days of coming to church at half past ten or eleven o'clock in the morning one day a week, and the one-size fits all, that's well in the past so we're just kind of catching up with how life is."

Chaplain Esther Elliott said it might not be the type of church we are used to but if fulfils a similar role.

"It gives a physical presence in a space where there are already relationships," she said.

"People come here to share their concerns, to share the good things in life and or share the quite horrible things of life as well.

"They come here to get support and information and to learn as well, which is really the task of the local church building."

There will be some difficult conversations here at the General Assembly in the coming days about the future of the Church of Scotland.

Presbyteries have until 2025 to decide which churches will close, as the Kirk continues to look for new places and ways to work.

HippieChick58 9 May 19
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17 comments

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1

Steps in the right direction for there journey of enlightenment. If they choose to go down the path.

1

I think they should turn them into haunted castles. The bloody figure on the cross is already there.

2

Isn’t that great??!!

Slowly but surely, it’s a disappearin’

7

Too Bad So Sad.......indoor skate parks, maybe?

Holy Rollers!

5

Good riddance.

8

Who said there's no good news these days?

10

This is excellent news! It means the younger generations are not accepting or believing the religious crap anymore.

7

Good to hear churches are closing in Scotland. Maybe they will all close in ten years.

6

Kirk = Church - the two words have a connection. I believe Kirk has it's origin in Norse language, and as English developed, it morphed gradually to Church, maybe with some latin influence.

A female Norwegian{?} singer, Sissel’s, surname is similar. BING it for more.
My ancestors were Germans and I recall “Kinder, Kirken, und Kuchen.”

6

Fuck the Kirk, now close churches here in Amerikkka, damnit!!!

I was in Denver a few months back and noticed two churches in the downtown area that we're abandoned. I thought at last, progress. Now either convert them into something useful or tear them down and reuse the materials elsewhere.

6

I could live in Scotland 😂

me too

Except for the weather and the food, I would concur.

@BufftonBeotch You mean to say you don't like haggis? 😂

@BufftonBeotch The weather maybe but having spent several holidays in the high humidity of N.E USA I'm not so sure.
As for the food I don't know where you got the idea that Scottish cuisine is inferior that in the USA as that is certainly not the case.

@BufftonBeotch No Response ?. I just wondered where you got the idea that ther is something wrong with Scottish food.,
We have some of the best beef,lamb,fish, shellfish,venison, cheese , soft fruit, potatoes etc in the world. many have protected European status.
Where I live beef and lamb is grassfed, none of your feedlots where cattle are pumped full of antibiotics that you have in the USA.
Sure we have fast food, like macdonals and kentucky fried chicken and greasy spoon cafes like your diners but there is an amazing choice of excellent foodstuffs

@Moravian Haggis - Offal - Jellied eels - Black pudding

@Moravian And as for the "no response" as you poked me.

Have you heard of things called time zones?

@Moravian You can find about any climate you want in the US. I have chosen to accept 3-4 months of extreme heat for 8 to 9 months of fairly moderate temps and snow being something seen in flurries and even frost being a rare occurrence.

As far as cuisine?
Well, since we are a nation of immigrants, throw a dart at a world map.

Granted, I have no fondness for the greasy spoon type of grease slopped food with vegetables boiled to mush that you seem to associate with American food.

If that is what you were fed while here you had bad hosts.

@BufftonBeotch There is a vegetarian haggis option, tates much the same, Jellied eels are from London. That's in a different country in case you were unaware. Black pudding, I believe you call it blood pudding. delicious.
We have immigrants too. There is quite a French influence in Scottish cooking from way back when we were common enemies of the English. Even small towns have an Indian restaurant( more likely Bangladeshi) and a Chinese and Thai restaurant.
Larger cities have a full range of cuisine from around the world.
Out of interest have you ever visited the UK ?

@Moravian You are strangely defensive to an almost hostile degree. Why?

@BufftonBeotch Am I ??. Wow ,you are a sensitive soul. I ask you how come you are an expert on Scottish weather and food and I am being hostile.
The following is from a Wikipedia entry on how Americans are perceived abroad. Do you think it is accurate or a load of rubbish

Lack of cultural awareness
Americans may be stereotyped as ignorant of countries and cultures beyond their own.[7][30] This stereotype shows them as lacking intellectual curiosity, thus making them ignorant of other cultures, places, or lifestyles outside of the United States.[3] The idea of American students dumbing down is attributed to the declining standards of American schools and curricula.[31]

3

Alot of churches are being abandon because of the lack of attendance and cost to upkeep the buildings.

4

Who is the Kirk?

That confused me too.
I was looking for a person.
It is what the Church of Scotland is called as a whole.

Captain of the Enterprise 😂

The name for a church in Scotland and N.E. England. Came from the Norse word Kirkja.

@Moravian I believe the German is kirche; probably also of Norse origin.

6

Are the churches supported by the large body or fully reliant on the congregation for upkeep and maintenance?
In the US, it is mostly the members alone and as that membership ages and declines, (as does their income) is when the church folds. By the time this happens, the building's vital upkeep has often been neglected for so long that the building is a tear down for property only.
It is poignant in a way, I suppose. But I am not really sad about it.

Yes, they are supported by the Church as a whole. The Curch of Scotland , also called the kirk, is suffering hard times as their membership ages and declnes. They are nothing like as corrupt as the Roman Catholic church but they did have to pay out £1 million recently on a child abuse claim.

4

Who or what is the “Kirk”? In about a dozen paragraphs I saw no explanation so I stopped reading.

I Googled it.

kirk
nounSCOTTISH•NORTHERN ENGLISH

  1. a church.
  2. the Church of Scotland as distinct from the Church of England or from the Episcopal Church in Scotland.

@BufftonBeotch Thank you for the clarification.

7

This has been happening for years. Every town in Scotland has churches which have been converted to dwellings, night clubs, restaurants etc and many are lying derelict.

7

The buildings will be sold and probably converted into homes.

They would make unique apartments, or shopping centers.

@HippieChick58 Most churches in Scotland are physically quite small. They are nothing like the mega churches in parts of the U$A. (I used to live in Scotland.)

@anglophone I was thinking of some of the churches I saw in other parts of Europe. In the Netherlands, my daughter and her family stayed in a monastery that has been converted to a hotel. I have been to Lincoln Cathedral in England. Yes, some old churches are mostly one big open room and not much else.

@HippieChick58 Ah, thanks for the heads up. Jedburgh Abbey [en.wikipedia.org] when it was being used would match what you describe. Prinknash Abbey, still in use today, might also interest you [prinknashabbey.org] .

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