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I don't expect pro gun people to believe me, but the NRA is lying to you. I have no intention to even try to take guns other than Assault Weapons away from anybody. I don't even want the ones you already have, I just want stores to quit selling them. Look up what it takes to repeal an amendment. The 2nd amendment is not going anywhere whether I like it or not. Neither are the guns you already own. There are over 300 million people in this country. There are too many people, and too many guns, and I have better things to do with my time. The NRA has the upper hand on a national level.

MikeFlora 7 Apr 26
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13 comments

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1

The NRA is big business, big money and in the pocket of a host of political figures. As long as money rules, we can expect little change.

Seeker55 Level 8 Apr 27, 2018

Go over to their website and see the shit they're saying about us.

1

The people will have the upper hand.

kenriley Level 8 Apr 26, 2018
1

From what I can tell they don’t actually know what their objecting to because they don’t take the time to listen. There are of course exceptions but if I’m going to paint that demographic with one brush I’ve likely covered most of the canvas.

2

They are liars but honestly.... they are conditioned to be lied to.

They are pounding it into their members that we want to get rid of all guns and repeal the 2nd amendment

6

The nRA lies.

4

An interesting thing this 2nd Amendment. It was set up to bring down the cost of the National defence, following independence. If every man can be called to arms quickly to fight off the indigenous people or us British, it would save the cost of a standing army.
However, over time, weapons have moved on from the muskets and rifle muskets of the late eighteenth century, but the laws have not kept pace. In America there are some places where guns need to be used for personal protection from the animals which may wish to prey on you. Question is, the Assault rifle. To keep the wolf literally from the door, are they the best choice?
If I want to go mad and plug a neighbour or collegue. It will take me around 20 seconds to reload using a musket, and then I'll probably miss a moving target. With an AK74, that will discharge around 10 rounds per second, or bursts of three, and is quite accurate at up to 100 metres, with a far longer range should one wish to take proper aim.
As a non American, I am astonished at the love affair the USA has with the gun. As astudent of criminology, psychology and sociology I am professionally even more confused by the way Americans mow eachother down in great numbers for no good reason.
Are guns fun? Of course they are! I would love to own a Tommy gun, but I cannot justify having a sub-machine gun. I have no need, other than greed.
Once the military has finished their duties, then they hand their weapons in. So, if a private citizen wishes to own a military rapid fire gun, then perhaps it should be stored outwith their residence, only to be used at a certified range day.

Sofabeast Level 7 Apr 26, 2018

You do realize that a fully automatic weapon that you are describing is quite difficult to get in the United States, right?

If our founding fathers had wanted everybody to have as many guns as they want, the 2nd amendment would just say" the right of the people to own firearms shall not be infringed" saying anything other than that says they intended some type of limitations.

@MikeFlora Would this technically apply to nukes too?

3

I assume you mean AR-15 styled weapons when you say ‘assault weapons’. If so, I believe that you should need a license to own one.They aren’t well suited for hunting or home defense. They are well suited fighting a tyrannical government

indirect76 Level 7 Apr 26, 2018

Which will always be better armed than the civilians!

If assault weapons "aren't well suited for hunting or home defense", then why license them at all? You want to give a license to someone for a weapon of mass murder?

And they are no match for fighting a tyrannical government. A whole army of civilians armed with fully automatic weapons is no match against a government armed with fighter jets, tanks, cannons, etc.

@dare2dream License assault rifles for fighting a tyrannical government.

I’ll just concede your point that they are no match. I don’t see how that is an argument to ban them. To me it supports the idea of allowing more deadly weapons like the M16 or AK-47.

The well armed and regulated militias of 1861-65 didn't fair too well against the 'tyrannical' government. Tyrannical is/was a matter of personal choice. I'm deliberately avoiding slavery in that argument, just what would have been seen as freedoms of the period.

2

Americans and Gun Laws, let the games begin. A gun is a tool and some guns are useful in controlling varmints or hunting for wild meat - handguns do not fall within that definition unless you want to hunt other humans for food. Other than that it's about killing people, statistically speaking it is about killing someone you know and love.
I want no part of that but I appreciate that there are insecure people, people that need a security blanket in the form of a handgun and those people aren't going away any time soon.

Surfpirate Level 8 Apr 26, 2018

Is it not obvious that a person would get a handgun for security? Does it help the discussion to say they need a ‘security blanket‘? It’s great that you don’t feel like you need or want a handgun. I wouldn’t make a blanket statement about others though.

@indirect76 The only time I ever considered getting a gun for personal protection was the period I spent several years living in the US of A. It's a gun oriented society and I would never want to bring a knife to a gun fight. That said I have live in places like Bermuda where guns are highly prohibited, virtually nobody has one, even the local gangs only had access to one handgun that could be rented if you had the right connections. My American employees would often feel naked without 'their gun' when they first came to Bermuda but I would explain to them that nobody else had a gun either so they were perfectly safe considering they were much bigger than most Bermudians and better equipped to defend themselves physically.
The USA is not the whole world and it's rules don't apply everywhere.

@Surfpirate I agree, living in the U.S. does tend to make people want to own guns.

2

The NRA takes the extreme and unreasonable-seeming position simply because most people who want gun control do actually want a gun-free country even if they won't admit it. The NRA is waging combat against an ever-growing nanny state. While I am not necessarily a fan of the NRA, I don't mind the idea of fighting one extreme with another.

Shawno1972 Level 7 Apr 26, 2018

Oh, Bull! That's like saying that someone who is for a single-payer health-care system wants to turn the country communist! & as Mike stated, the 2nd Amendment is not going anywhere, so even if I would love to see virtually no guns anywhere, just like with an afterlife, I don't resort to wishful thinking in real life! Maybe we really ought to be extreme to fight the NRA lies, to fight that extreme in the same way you describe!

You need to stop believing the NRA bullshit. I do NOT want a gun free country. I own guns. The 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere, it's practically impossible to repeal an amendment if I wanted to, and I don't

@phxbillcee You just said, "...so even if I would love to see virtually no guns anywhere..."

I rest my case. A majority of people who are shouting from the rooftops about gun control do indeed want them gone, not just controlled.

Yes, the NRA lies. It's a political machine, so of course it does. I can't do anything about that. That doesn't mean I want them to stop fighting for the 2nd Amendment.

@Shawno1972 Jeez! I also said, "I don't resort to wishful thinking...". At least don't cherry pick like xtian apologists do, & for the same reason! Wanting to live in a world without guns is like wanting to live in a world without disease. Ain't happenin' anytime soon, so stop that false, idiotic trope! In other words, stop lying & stop putting words in people's mouths! You are so typical of the ammosexuals that won't listen & won't budge! Just really sad!

@phxbillcee There's no need to hurtle insults. I get that you're bothered by what I said, but maybe you can take it down a notch? You really have no idea what I believe or stand for. Thanks.

@Shawno1972 Really?!? You've sort of shown that in your response to me! You took a part of my statement & tried to make it the whole! You're dishonest! So, yeah, easy to see what you stand for! I'm bothered because you're lying in how you carry out this argument. No thanks!

@Shawno1972 Hurtle insults! LOL

1

I have always wondered why the NRA totally ignores the “well regulated militia” aspect of the 2nd amendment.

These guys used quill pens and bottles of India ink they're not going to write more words than they have to. So if they had wanted everybody to have as many guns as they wanted the 2nd amendment would just say "The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed". Anything beyond that means they had some kind of limitations in mind. The whole militia thing means they had some serious limitations in mind, and it would have been nice if they had bothered to explain a little better what they had in mind, exactly.

2

Dude, you're fun.
Where have I heard this before...
"I don't want out law abortion. It is was decided by the supreme court.
It's takes a lot to change a supreme court decision.
I just want a woman to understand what an abortion is, and the risk.
What's wrong with a little bit extra knowledge; knowledge is power.
Liberals just want control, and misrepresent conservatives."

Lol, this is fun.
The NRA does only advocate for the Gun producers.

bubinf Level 6 Apr 26, 2018

@bubint I think you might be the fun one. Everyone is talking about guns and you want to talk about abortion? And I only guessing here but from your picture you look like a man, but if your not then I'm wrong. You say that you want women to know the risk of an abortion, and to have knowledge. So you being a man I guess you have more knowledge then the women do. Well lets hear it, start telling the women what's best for them. I'm a man And I don't know what's best , but maybe you do. You must be a Dr. and as for your statement about Liberals misrepresenting Conservatives, I believe you just misrepresent Liberals. I'm a gun owner and I hunt. the last time I had a need for weapon like the AR-15 or AK47 was when I carried the m-16 in Vietnam. So you're are right about the NRA is for the gun makers.

@kenriley if you don’t like the abortion argument, go with drugs. I’ve seen the same arguments for all.

One example I remember where I heard “all we want is X” was with gay marriage. I remember hearing opponents say they’ll be forced to participate in them. Supporters said nah “we just want X”
10 years later, and we’re arguing about said thing.

Honestly, on the Internet I just argue.

@bubinf I get it. It's the same old arguement, again and again. Sometimes I argue, most of the time, I just walk away from it.

@kenriley It's people who just "argue" that help perpetuate the troubles we all face. Arguing may be a sport to you, but it fuels the fire in some people and irritates the fuck out of people like me, who want to see some real dialogue, with real ideas about how to meet in the middle and find balanced answers on issues of great importance.

2

Guns should be available. However, I do believe that greater care needs to be shown in who we sell them to. Crazies are going to get guns. It's going to happen whether we limit them or not. But that doesn't mean we have to put the gun right in their hands. Because then it's our fault when shit goes down. If they buy a gun illegally, then we know they got the gun, but it wasn't because of us. If we sell the crazy the gun and then they shoot shit up, it's our fault, too.

So the Second Amendment is important and it's fine to sell good, law-abiding citizens with no history of mental illness guns. But we need to take more care in who we sell guns to.

3

The NRA is a morally bankrupt, greedy organization that seeks to enrich itself and the gun industry by lies, deception, and by stirring up the basest instincts in men.

wordywalt Level 8 Apr 26, 2018
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