Alcoholics Anonymous... Is a religious cult?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 22, 2019:

I don't think it's a cult. It does have religion in most of the its groups here in the US, but not all. It does serve a good purpose in providing people with a ready-made support network while they work on their problems. It also helps them get past their own ego and pride to start seeing how they affect others and also provides opportunities within the program to help others. All these things are part of a process for people to grow emotionally and spiritually as they stop drinking and heal. The ideal of the program is to eventually have little need for the meetings, but continue to grow and stay accountable by giving to others in the program by helping. A man I know who seems to have gotten the healthiest of anyone from the program eventually quit going to meetings and continued to get his spirituality from his church.

Has anyone actually tried using this app as a means of dating?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 22, 2019:

Never met anyone in person. Messaged with three of them in my area soon after I joined. No new women my age group have joined in the last two years or more, so, unless I try dating LD, which I won't, it's not going to happen. And even if I tried to date out of state, I doubt anyone would be interested in me from here, because I'm not willing to move and nobody would be willing to move to the Des Moines area from somewhere out of state.

Why do so many women suffer from 'Bad Boy Syndrome'? Is stable too boring?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 22, 2019:

I'm not a woman, but that seems like too sweeping a generalization. Also, I think that women being attracted to Bad Boys, when it does occur, is more often something that occurs when they are younger, rather than middle-aged or older. Will be interesting to hear the women weigh in on this. My guess is that by the time women reach middle age, they want stable, but they also want a man who is charming, fun, confident, and adventurous, as well as attractive looking. Good luck if your looks are just average and you are a nice, nurturing and supportive guy, but don't have the other qualities. That is how you are seen as boring, not because of your stability.

This guy is my hero of the week

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 22, 2019:

I appreciate the irreverent humor on the part of the guy in the Satan outfit, but I don't know that I support doing the in-your-face type of protest like that. Glad to see the guy hugging him has a sense of humor, which would be pretty rare about that kind of thing in my area.

I'm trying to put my singing out there more, so I thought I'd share here too.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 20, 2019:

I used to be a member of an online karaoke site called Singsnap. There is another one that a couple online friends of mine use to post their recordings called Singer's Showcase. Your vocal stacks up with some of the better ones I've heard from both. I sing a lot of karaoke myself, but I would not risk posting something here for comment, so props to you. This song is maybe not the most wide open type of song to show off all you can do, so I would be interested in hearing you sing something more challenging. But on this you sound as capable as Nora Jones or Sheryl Crow, to name a couple.

Over the years I have realised that my motivations are more philanthropic than for material ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

Was never happy working for the man in the large business work world. Everything is too impersonal.

It’s been a rough day, various reasons, but I shared on my Facebook that I was sad and asked my ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

Tell me about it, I really miss that too, more than sex, to be honest. It's about the worst part of being widowed and alone.

The pros and cons of being single! Just ran across these today.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

Don't get me started.....

Hey folks.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

Was he LD or local? I'm guessing the former....I've been on here two and a half years and have never met anyone in person. Not willing to try dating LD, so I really doubt it will ever happen for me with no new women my age joining in my area for the last two years.

Anybody seen “THe Lavender Scare” last night?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

In terms of social stigma and needing to be in the closet about who we are, atheists and agnostics are often in the same place as gays were back in the mid part of the last century.

Is hell for me

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

I know this sounds like a rationalization, but the great playwright Tennessee Williams once wrote that beginning at birth we are all sentenced to a life of solitary confinement.

This world is getting too politically correct. [lfpress.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 19, 2019:

I often get annoyed at people who carry PC to an extreme, even tho I am a progressive, but I read the guy's speech and he does seem to be a bit of a dick when it comes to women, but I would not label him a misogynist, tho I am sure there are more than a few women here who would and are way too loose and quick about using that term.

Do you suspect there is an evangelical arm of atheism that wants to convert religious practitioners ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 18, 2019:

I am very aware that there is and it disturbs me, as they are no better or really that different than the religious fundys they hate. Live and let live.....

The Anger of the White Male Lie – Ijeoma Oluo – Medium

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 18, 2019:

Very accurate. Many white men who are angry due to their overblown sense of entitlement, just like many poor white folks, have or feel they have nothing left but their pride about being white, or male, in the case of white males. People like that are too proud to ever admit to others they have been conned by the system and their betters, if they are even willing to admit it to themselves. They are hurting and in denial about how false their whole belief system is, which is what makes them dangerous and explosive.

A hugely blaring difference between Capitalism and Socialism that Americans seem to miss (and very ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 18, 2019:

I would generally agree with that. It explains why critical thinking skills are reserved for only the managerial and professional classes by being taught only at the college level and not in high school in the US. The same with most social sciences which the ruling class would not like the masses to know too much about sociology and economics, or poli sci..

Finding love between an agnostic and a religious person.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 18, 2019:

In my experience, the male non-believers are way more tolerant of that kind of difference than the female believers, so it ends up being a dealbreaker on the part of the believer, which is all that matters. In my online dating experience with Match in my area, only about 25% of the women my age will accept or be open to dating a non-believer as indicated in their profiles. As far as believer males, I don't know enough about their attitudes on this kind of difference to comment.

Are their any normal functioning, real guys out their! having been on tinder, my hopes are fading.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 18, 2019:

I'm one but I'm probably a little too old for you and live half a world away. Also, the good ones will probably look more average than the ones you are attracted to.

Some of these are true, but I don't think all of them are. What do you think?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Tell me, my fellow Tom, which ones do you think are not true? I really am curious....

Some of these are true, but I don't think all of them are. What do you think?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Yup, I think the translations are pretty on the mark of how people, both male and female really feel, even tho they don't have the guts to say it. Not me, I am honest, but kind about it. In my opinion lying like the people do that use these lines, is really not being kind to others. In my case, at least when I am on the receiving end, it feels like an insult to my intelligence and nothing pisses me off more than that. So if someone gives me those kind of lines, I confront the shit out of them. At this point in my online dating experience, I don't honestly know which is worse, being ghosted or being given these kind of lines. I guess maybe being ghosted, if only because when someone uses the lines I have the opportunity to confront them either in person (unlikely and rare), over the phone, or thru messaging on a dating site. But they are about equally unkind in my opinion.

"You shouldn't do that" is a challenge. Is "Watch me" your response?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

My answer is "You shouldn't do that" is often not meant as a challenge, so I don't take it as one at all most of the time. I assume that most of the time it is meant well as a warning to me with my safety in mind. I don't care much about proving things to people, esp. as far as my physical capabilities. We do seem to have very different mindsets and personalities.

Elizabeth Warren’s Rise Is a Plus for Issue Politics—And a Bad Sign for Billionaires ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

The more time goes on, the less I trust her. I am starting to think she might be a plant or ringer for the ruling class the same way Obama was, just a fake progressive designed to con people into thinking they were voting for real change that would benefit the 99%.

TMI but good to know up front. I'm not sure I'd even want to talk to him/her....

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Sounds like they have issues....

For all women out there

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

I would not mind at all if a woman pursued me. I would be flattered and not think any less or differently of her for doing that. Also, it might be a good empathy-building experience for her to better understand how it is for men having to do the pursuing in real life or on dating sites. Might get her to not be as demanding or critical about how a guy might be awkward, nervous, or underconfident, etc. It's very easy to be critical of someone's performance of talking to the opposite sex when you are never doing the pursuing. It's more important to listen to your gut and focus on where the other person's heart is. Not surprisingly tho, almost the only times that a woman has approached me on a paid dating site with the first move, it has been women who were not attractive looking to me at all, with one exception. I am guessing they made the first move because they were not getting much, if any, interest from other men. The one exception was a woman who had almost nothing in common with me,and hadn't even looked at my profile before sending me a flirt, but was attractive looking to me. I thanked her for her interest and said I was not interested. If I were like most men, I suppose I probably have met her in person, hooked up with her as soon as possible, and then dumped her. Not my style.

Have you ever wondered why social media is so popular and "friends" are so much easier to make ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Because FB and social media require zero commitment or involvement compared to real offline friendships.

Black Missouri drivers 91% more likely to be stopped, state attorney general finds | PBS NewsHour

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

I am shocked, shocked I say, that law enforcement in Missouri would stop people for DWB.

I Want to Grieve Normal Things Again

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Thanks for sharing this Paula. I can relate. This sort of stuff is the main reason I pretty much don't watch TV news anymore or read the newspaper except for the Sunday edition, which I still subscribe to mainly so I can be aware of the obits for anyone I may know casually that may have died. I am socially isolated and depressed enough that I don't need the daily news and most political stuff added to that and all the loss I have suffered this decade.

Is it too much to expect one man to be satisfied with one woman?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Not this man. I'd be grateful to find someone mutually compatible and mutually attractive to even go on one real date with. I've been widowed almost two years and have yet to have a date where I kissed anyone.

"Nice is not the same as kind.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 17, 2019:

Quite true. Here in the midwest there is an expression in my state called Iowa Nice. It is an expression for phony politieness and friendliness that often has nothing to do with how someone really feels towards you. It is usually phony and I have rejected and rebelled against it my whole adult life here. I choose friends and partners that, like me, do not play along with being nice when it is phony. I prefer people that are real and honest. And I have found that most people that engage in being nice rather than honest and direct are not kind people, at least not by how I and most people on this site define kindness.

Hear no evil speak no evil see no evil

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 16, 2019:

Wondering why the hooman is bothering them......

Help, please?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 16, 2019:

Nope, know nothing about that stuff. Sorry to hear your cat is sick.

Life is too short to worry about....

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 16, 2019:

In a word, yes.

Does anyone else struggle with hating religion?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 16, 2019:

I guess I can't relate much to how you feel about religion. I am really pretty apathetic to the religion of other people and rarely give it that much thought these days. I also don't really care about how others feel about my non-belief and now that I am retired I don't do shit as far as making others feel better about my non-belief. Like the song in the movie Office Space, "Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta...".

Thinking about a recent post by Freethinkingxx, it occurred to me that there should be local ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 16, 2019:

I am not good at or interested in being a leader, so forget about me starting a central Iowa group on here. We do have an Iowa group, but they never meet and the vast majority of those who have joined it no longer live in Iowa, they are just former Iowans or people who still have some interest or attachment to this state. I think one of the big roadblocks to an Iowa group is that it seems like most members of Agnostic who still live in Iowa are in the closet about their non-belief. So they usually don't even have a photo of themselves on here or use their real name in any way. Very few Iowa residents who are members here are active at all on the site. As long as there is such fear of being outed or being known publicly as non-believing, I doubt we will ever have enough openly out members in my state for there to be much interest in gathering publicly to network or socialize. Also, it appears, at least for the women who live in Iowa and are members of this site, that except for a very few, the rest appear to just be interested in finding people to date thru Agnostic.com and have no interest in the community. So they join the site for dating and soon after see that there are few or no prospects in their area, so the leave the site for good or else only come back occasionally to see if any new members have joined in their area that are interested in dating.

This sounds great to me!

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 15, 2019:

Too good to be true, at least of the women I have run across on Match. Unlike me, they pretty much seem to be very materialistic, not that my late wife didn't like nice things, but things were not what made her happy or what she valued with other people. She could be good friends with people that did not have much money, something that seems rare among the single women on Match in my area that have some money.

This is Jade a blue tabby. She has her own Instagram account. 😄 [instagram.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 15, 2019:

I knew a Persian that had his own FB page (run by his owner). He even had fans on there. He was a store cat in a bead and jewelry shop and he loved seeing his public.

What is your favorite sport....

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 15, 2019:

Swimming to watch. Don't play any sports. Unfortunately in the US, even tho the US dominates swimming in the world, about the only times the major networks ever televise swimming is when the Olympics or the World Championships come around. In the old days before cable networks, the major networks would televise the national championships every year as well as the NCAA Championships.

A woman-fax? I'll bet this is not as easy as it sounds! Hahahahaha!

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 14, 2019:

No owners in my mind, but previous references would be nice.

My appointment for LASIX eye surgery is in less than 12 hours, I’m nervous and excited.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 14, 2019:

I'm too chickenshit to take even the small risk of Lasik surgery when I can see fine with my bifocal glasses. I will hold of the Lasik until I develop cataracts when I am older, then I will get that done together with it.

I just found out that my oldest son's wife left him.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 12, 2019:

Glad that I am done with my family once the funeral day is over next week. After that, there's really nothing left except attending a few funerals unless I decide to come visit my siblings or their spouses if they get gravely ill and only if they ask me to visit.

could be kind of creepy on the wrong person...what do you think?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

Looks like he has the body, beard, and chin that would attract most women, and since it's only about sex, I would say he's going to get some interest. I'm guessing his face matches the rest of the package.

According to US media, sex = love = marriage.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

Well, all that really cheered me up for today. Moving onto sex, which only happens with me after I've known a woman a while, does mean something to me. But I agree with you that it doesn't mean much to most people, including most of the women I am interested in from online dating or meet organically, even here in conservative Iowa. What to do?

Iowa voter: Trump’s lies don’t change my vote for him Now what else we democrats need to ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

In the Iowa focus group, which is where I live, I see nothing but blind tribalism among almost all of them. They are so locked into voting for the lesser evil in some cases, and in others voting Repub no matter what. They may not be what are called low information voters, but they also are not what I call very deep thinkers. No wonder I have always felt alienated and often embarrassed by my state. In Iowa, we lefties privately call it North Mississippi. Interesting how the older woman who supports Warren appears to be the most modest, least outspoken, but probably the most informed and deepest thinker of the bunch. And yet, even she seems to be stuck on identity politics over policy as she says it's important that Warren is not an old white guy, tho she is fairly old herself, meaning Warren.

Agnostics??

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

Me. I really don't care which label non-believers use for themselves. I know that most people, esp. believers, are more familiar with the term atheist, and that term currently has a very negative stigma attached to it here in the US. Similar to being a Muslim post 9-11, or the term homosexual used to have decades ago.

Do you still have date nights with your partner?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

I never had kids, so, with my late wife we didn't need to have date nights, we went out at least a couple times a week. Date night is a foreign concept to childfree couples.

[facebook.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

I admire the father's self control. If anybody got in my face that close to me and was talking that way to me, I would probably hit them if they had me cornered and I couldn't walk away. I am glad I didn't have kids as I don't have that kind of patience. At least I didn't continue the chain of bad parenting after me. If the father in this video had clocked the kid and gone to jail, I would never have voted to convict him if I were on that jury.

I think its easier to stand up for someone else than it is to stand up for yourself.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

Boy is that the fucking truth. I spent most of my life waiting for other people to come to bat for me or stand up for me when I was being mistreated or wronged and no one ever did. So finally I decided to quit waiting and start standing up for myself and fighting back when I was mistreated, never physically, of course, as an adult. It felt a lot better than having false hope that others would protect or defend me against unjust people. I learned the sober truth that most people are too selfish and gutless to deal with conflict and stand up for others. And also that most people avoid conflict and confrontation, even when it comes to standing up for themselves, much less for someone else. So much for all that Good Samaritan crap in the Bible.

Alright.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

For what it's worth Amy, I like you as your are. As Stuart Smalley used to say, " I'm smart enough, I'm good enough...."

‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 11, 2019:

As Lily Tomlin used to say, no matter how cynical you get, you still can't keep up......

‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

What a shameless bunch of arrogant, insensitive assholes. It's like having a white pride rally. One reason I have no interest in NASCAR, probably the whitest sport left in America. I really dislike rednecks and their culture, hence my loathing of NASCAR.

Look at the fine print

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

Sounds like a deal with the devil, or worse, lol! I used to buy a Bat Cat calender every year that had wonderful photos of cats in it. One had two cats in costume, reminded me of this one, where one cat was dressed as the devil and the other as a poor soul selling their soul to the devil. The caption said, "Once you sell your soul to the devil, you can't get it back, Bwahahaha.....".

If you try this, could you let me know?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

Puzzled, frustrated kitty. She looks so cute.

Getting the most out of Agnostic.com

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

Saying you are a non-conformist in you bio is a good thing and it should attract more folks that it turns off. I would get rid of any photos showing you with women as it might make it look like you are already in a relationship. Women are often easily discouraged or suspicious of men who say they are looking to date and have pics of them with women, doesn't matter even if the woman is your sister or daughter. Talk in your bio about your background or lifestyle. Best wishes.

America's Real Economy: It Isn't Booming

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

It hasn't been for a very long time, at least not for average people, even long before 2008. I already knew that just from talking to people and looking around. But then again, I am a lot smarter and deeper in my thinking than the average sheeple.

Edit: apparently this requires a trigger warning.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

I see your point and now I know who you were talking about and criticizing on his post's thread. I did not see where he said anything about only wanting to date women who were way younger than him. But I can tell you from my experience that, as Sticks says, it goes both ways, not that I am excusing his attitude on that. I have seen countless profiles on Match of women in my area that are in their early or even mid-fifties that will only date their own age or maybe a couple years older than them at most, while also indicating that they will date men as much as 15 years younger. So who is being more shallow and selfish? It ends up being more a matter of degree I guess. Your level of generalization and hostility towards all men, however, is kind of disturbing to me.

Some fun illustrations here.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

Too funny and too true. I don't know whether to laugh or feel depressed about how right on the mark those revised comics are. Probably feel a bit of both about them.

It's Muuundaaaay

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

Glad I'm retired. I remember how some working days I almost needed to be reminded that stabbing people is wrong, lol!

Nothing beats being single except being single and living alone! I had such an experience for 2 ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

It all depends on how you are wired emotionally and whether the situation is by choice or not. Some people prefer being alone for the long term and some don't. I am the latter. Also living alone is more attractive, at least to me, when you are young, have more hope about your future and are new to the freedom of living alone.

WHO’S DATING “LOCAL?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

Not me, and I'd wager that damn near nobody else has either.

A series of studies published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology show that ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

I've often wondered if this sort of thing was true of many of the most anti-gay Repubs, and sometimes it has turned out to be the case with some Repubs who got exposed as actually being gay. Now we know why some Repubs act like they hate gays in their political speech and policies, besides the other reason, which is that it raises money for them and fires up their supporters.

I would welcome the opportunity to try psychedelics, to counteract my suicidal despair, which has ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

I recommend a really interesting book about exactly that stuff that someone steered me towards recently. It's called A Really Good Day and it's a woman's personal story about a month in which she took microdoses of LSD to treat her depression and kept a journal about it. She was already a published writer so this book is very easy to read, funny and interesting. I hope it is helpful. In her case, the microdosing was helpful for her depression, where before nothing was really working very well for her on that.

I have tried a couple of other date sites and so many profiles start out with must love Jesus, or ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

As far as meeting people to date on this site, it all really depends on where you live or if you are willing to date someone LD. Some locations allow local dating options with members of this site and some don't. I am not familiar with the concentration of Agnostic's members in Colorado, but my guess is that your chances of local dating options there are probably about average, which is, it's possible but not good. Visited your profile and checked the listings of nearby female members. Not good, just as I guessed it. You have one female member your age, practically the same as you, in your area, but she hasn't been on the site for three months. You may as well message her and see what happens. Good luck, hope you have more success than me on here.

I realized something today about myself.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:

I wish I could help man, but it would be the blind leading the blind because I have never been good at talking to single women either when I am single and on the market. I am fine at talking to female friends and to a woman that I have been dating for a while when she has given me enough encouragement and affirmation for me to feel secure with her. But that whole salesmanship stuff that guys are expected to have when they first encounter them online or in person, no, I am a total bust and klutz at that. Maybe women need to be a little more realistic about what they expect from men conversationally in the early stages, because the truly sincere, nice, and healthy guys are not going to be slick, confident, smooth, or as calm as the guys that are actually players, jerks, and such. And that's because maybe the truly nice and caring guys have more genuine feelings about women vs. the players and jerks because they feel something more is on the line besides a conquest. Something else to consider is that before women decide to be so critical of how smooth and charming a man needs to be in talking to them at the start they should try it themselves a few times and see how hard it is. I bet they wouldn't be so critical or demanding of how confident and smooth a guy needs to be. Stay strong man, I doubt the problem is all you...... Talking to women when they are attached or you are attached and all there is is platonic friendship is easy for me and should be easy for all men because there is nothing on the line or any risk of rejection or blowing an encounter or opportunity where you feel there is attraction and maybe also compatibility. In that scenario, esp. if the man has not had any success and acceptance from new women in quite a while, confidence and smoothness is very hard to have, so men are expected to fake it, which makes a truly nice or sensitive guy even more uncomfortable. So women who want guys who are nice, genuine, and appropriately sensitive might think twice about how much confidence and smoothness they expect. Conclusion: Women should consider whether they are more interested in dating a man who is a good salesman and actor who can put out charm and confidence or do they want a man who can actually be a good partner. There is a difference in the skill set needed to do each of these things.

Just curious. Who would not have joined this forum if it was called atheist.com?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:

I would not have cared. Living in a conservative, traditional values type of US state, I do think that calling the site Atheist.com would maybe deter some potential members who live in areas like mine. Here in Iowa the term atheist has such negative connotation and stigma, very similar to what communist still has and what the term homosexual had a few decades ago. The term Agnostic seems somewhat less extreme or harsh compared to Atheist in areas like mine, probably because it is less known than Atheist., so that might make it easier for non-believers to feel comfortable with identifying with the community and the association with other non-believers. Most people in Iowa really are too ignorant to even know what agnostic means, so that way the term has not been as poisoned and loaded with stigma here like Atheist. A side note, at a meeting of a Meetup.com group for singles called Dating After Divorce, we were discussing online dating profiles and I said that I listed myself as Spritual, But Not Religious, which is one of the categories you can choose from on the profile for yourself, even tho I told the group I was an agnostic. A woman then asked me why I did not list myself as Agnostic. I told her it was for two reasons, one, Agnostic seems more off-putting to most Iowa women who are believers than Spiritual But Not Religious, and I am tired of being rejected for ignorant assumptions on the part of other people. And that my second reason was that most people in Iowa are too ignorant to know that the term Agnostic means. She and about all the other women in there were very offended by that remark on my part. But I answered that maybe sometimes the truth hurts your feelings and that their reaction proved my point, namely that both terms for non-believers are very foreign to their experience and makes them feel threatened by being unknown and different from their experience. BTW, almost all the women in that singles group are also members of Christian Singles Meetup groups in my area, so, big surprise there..........NOT....

Religion in a relationship

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:

Depends. Only if the believer is not strongly religious and also tolerant of the atheist or agnostic's non-belief. In my experience, that tolerance is very rare, and since I Iive in Iowa, which is pretty much the same as Nebraska, all I can say is good luck with trying to date in rural Nebraska. Because even tho I don't live in rural Iowa, because for me that would be unliveable even with a partner, trying to date as an Agnostic here in urban Iowa is damn near impossible at my age. Fortunately you are a little younger than me, but you may find you need to date LD to find someone compatible. It's likely you will need to date someone from Omaha or Lincoln, maybe even out of state to find a partner.

[lgbtqnation.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:

Hope he carries a good, high dollar type of comprehensive coverage on his truck so he can afford all the vandalism that he is in for....

Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:

Glad I have never been divorced. It has to be tough continuing to see someone that you know is a dick or bitch around that you can't get out of your life no matter how much you would like to.

"No more traveling! Unless you take us! This is now OUR duffle!!:

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:

Squatter cats...

Don't tease Opera Cat!

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:

How could you ever get a cat into that?

Not in a cats vocabulary🤣😂😅

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:

I love the cat's puzzled expression of " What?"

Not in a cats vocabulary🤣😂😅

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:

Very cute and true. Cats are so loveable and admirable in how they will do whatever they damn well want to whenever they want to. I think cat lovers envy and admire that in them. Hence, the expression about "trying to herd cats" as the idea of attempting something that's difficult if not impossible......

It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:

I guess I am different than you because I have blocked 16 people so far, both men and women as I believe in equal opportunity, and probably have been blocked by just as many, maybe more. I don't lose any sleep over either of those situations. I have strong opinions and I state them without mincing words and without apology, so I'm not surprised I get blocked a lot. I, like you, take pride in my writing ability and usually edit my comments at least once to make sure they are correct and understandable. Sounds like this person was being petty, spiteful and full of shit. I have seen much of your writing and I can see why you are published. I also think that Deiter's writing also rocks... As far as female solidarity, I can see why that is important to you, but character should always matter more than gender. Gender should never, at least in my book, trump character in how I judge people nor should it ever excuse bad behavior. I wouldn't lose any sleep over blocking this woman if I were you, but that's just me....

Spirituality in Film & Literature

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:

To be honest, I really don't watch much in the way of TV shows or movies about sci fi, fantasy or supernatural stuff. It usually doesn't interest me. Most of what I watch is about actual mortal people, altho with some imagination thrown in so it is more interesting than real life, as well as biopics or movies based on true stories as well as documentaries. To give you an example of my tastes, I think that Mad Men and The Sorpranos are the two best TV shows I have ever watched. The Shawshank Redemption and Office Space are both two of my favorite films.

Joan Baez. [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:

This is such an achingly beautiful, haunting personal song. It was her only real hit, and I sometimes sing it at karaoke. I like to genderbend sometimes and the song's key works perfectly for my baritone voice singing it a few octaves down from Baez. Crowds always seem to really relate to the song and like it, even if they have never heard it before.

Being agnostic and being a close-minded dick are 2 different things

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 7, 2019:

Agreed. As I have said before, I really don't care much what others believe as long as they don't hassle me or try to legislate their beliefs towards some kind of theocracy. Live and let live. I'll be me and they be them, esp. now that I am retired and don't need to be around anyone anymore that I don't want to be. And yes, being a believer or a non-believer, neither entitles anyone to act like a dick about it or act that way most of the time. Some of the time, sure, it's unavoidable, at least for me and in my experience, most people. Most of us are not good enough people to do otherwise.

Am I being unreasonable?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 7, 2019:

As thin-skinned as I can be about some things, esp. these days, I really don't get irritated about trivial stuff like this. I just consider the positive motivation and vibe behind the gesture and blow it off, or, better yet, take it as a sign of friendly neighborlyness. Maybe I'm wrong to feel that way, but when you live in a place like Iowa and are so surrounded by Christians and a culture where at least appearing to be friendly and neighborly to others is so revered, I maybe just feel unable to bother making an issue of such things. It certainly won't get me anywhere when I am so outnumbered here and in most cases would only leave me feeling frustrated and ostracized and probably banned from the coffeehouse for making a stink about it. In other words, when you live in a place where you are way outnumbered by members of the majority culture and are such an outsider culturally and in lifestyle, you have to pick your battles over when to speak up and buck the mainstream. This whole debate reminds me of what a junior high teacher told me back in my hometown of Ottumwa Iowa. We were talking in his history class about race relations and the teacher related a conversation he had with one of his few black students in my very typical white town that had only six black families out of a population in the high 20ks. The teacher asked the black student in one of his other classes if Ottumwa had any racial problems. The student answered him that " We sure do but the whites are never going to hear about it because there aren't enough of us to do anything about it or risk making trouble about it". I think a lot of privileged white folks forget about this dynamic, esp. when they live in a place that is diverse and more progressive and secular than Iowa. So, in the final analysis, it depends a lot on not just you, but the environment you live in. Imagine how blacks have felt all these years whenever they lived in a place that was majority white and white dominated? Were they being unreasonable to be offended at racial slights and want to fight back or change things? It all depends on your situation and perspective. Of course, my analogy of non-believers with blacks is very loose because color is obvious while being gay or non-believing is not. Which is why we have more in common with queer folk than racial minorities as far as being non-mainstream, alto most straight people still think they can spot gay and lesbian people just by their look based on stereotypes. Much harder to do that with non-believers just by looking at us. In the words of Bruce Hornsby, " That's just the way it is, some things will never change..."

R.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 7, 2019:

Wow, that had to be such an experience! To me Lou Reed was always the man and I never got to see him live. In fact, he only played one Iowa concert in his life, and I was way too young at the time, back in the early 70s or so.

How considerate. 🙄

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 7, 2019:

Cats simply can't help being cats and doing what they do....

What do you look for in a man or a woman if you want a long term relationship, and whats more ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 7, 2019:

When you get to my age and retirement, ambition is probably or should be, out of the picture. I am getting to the point that what I look for doesn't seem to matter anyway, so I will pass on sharing my priority here. I also think that many people, including some on these boards, are less than honest about what they really are looking for in a partner for an LTR because they are lying because they don't want to look shallow or else in denial about how they really choose and evaluate potential partners. I think this is especially true regarding online dating and somewhat less true regarding who the meet IRL.

Any advice?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:

Mariane- Please PM me. I respect your opinion and would like it on Kathleen's criticism of me below. Thanks.

What are some reasons you are afraid to commit?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:

I can tell you, Jama, that you are very different than the women your age in my local area, even tho we are both in the Midwest. The women my age, about ten to twenty years older than you on Match, are almost all so damned family-oriented that they would ostracize you for a remark like yours about a guy being too wrapped up with his adult kids. I am totally ok with your attitude and wish I could meet someone like you my age in my area. I have no idea what the guys your age are like in your area, but you and me seem to be very unique for our local areas. The more time I spend on these boards, the more I realize how much people like us are fish out of water in places like Iowa and Indiana. But the problem is, how to find someone compatible without moving away and also without knowing anyone but maybe the person we met online from Agnostic who lives there, or else staying where we are and trying to date LD with someone from Agnostic, knowing that in most cases they live in a much better place for people like us than Iowa and Indiana and would never move to be with us? It's a hell of a bind when you live in a backward area with bad weather compared to the coasts.

Any advice?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:

I have heard several stories on this site about how women found love and physical attraction later with guys that early on they had no physical attraction for. I have heard almost no stories on here about that happening for men with women they knew. I know myself pretty well and in that respect, at least, I am like most men, even tho I have had many platonic friendships with women and I am very patient about sex with women when I date. I just know that for me I either feel it early on or it's not going to happen. I don't want to lie to anyone, including myself, lead anyone on, or purposely friendzone someone from the start if I know that they are physically attracted to me and want to be more than friends.

What are some reasons you are afraid to commit?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:

I think my problem is being too willing to commit, if anything, because it seems like most women my age are nowadays just as reluctant to commit as men. And, on the other hand, it seems like if a guy like me is open and willing to commit to a relationship after dating for several months, it also seems like women are so cynical about men that even the women who want to commit with a guy won't believe me even if I am sincere about it. In fact, if the guy brings up commitment before the woman these days, it seems like the women will assume the guy is needy or desperate, assuming they even believe he is sincere about it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have never gotten further than a few dates with anyone since I was widowed, so these comments about the dating scene now for people my age are based on discussions online and offline with women rather than personal experience. So take it for what it's worth or not worth.

I had an experience this weekend that made me consider that there may be a God and he must hate me.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

I have only had food poisoning once, but it was a ghastly experience where I feared I might die, but also felt like it might be better than what I was experiencing. Got some bad spaggetti and meatballs from a grocery store deli that had been at room temp for too long. I came back there after I was ok with my receipt and complained about my experience. They believed me and said I had not been the only one, so they gave me a refund for the meal.

Today would have been our 15th wedding anniversary.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

He looks like a cute man with a good sense of humor.

Any advice?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

Would like to, but can't help you. I have never had the looks and confidence, unlike you, to have women often and easily attracted to me, so I haven't dated that much in my life. Not that much before my late wife and not at all in the couple years since. I think my standards have always been ok, but I haven't had your type of background or experiences with dating. I got lucky finding my wife. I worked briefly with a dating coach recently and she concluded my standards are fine and appropriate. She wasn't much help to me really, because it appeared that my main problems with finding someone esp. thru online dating, were going to be my average looks and my being too offbeat in lifestyle and culture for my local area. The reasons behind that is that looks are huge, at least in the initial part of online dating and not only are there few female hipsters my age that are single, they are also not likely to use online dating compared to more mainstream women.

I like this, but I'd feel a little bad about eating it.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

That cake is hilarious! It reminds me of Marjorie's home on the TV show Mom. She is a crazy cat lady who is an AA sponsor to one of the show's two lead characters.

Petition to rename Munchie to one of these names. LOL

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

Munchie's name is just fine.

A rare cat born with four ears. Yoda his name is... [twistedsifter.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

Really cute. Glad it was a positive mutation.

Fishing for a compliment. Squish. Has this ever happened to you?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:

I can't remember the last time I fished for a compliment from someone offline or IRL. I just do the best I can on things and hope it works out. I don't get compliments very often offline or IRL, at least that I have noticed, so I guess I have just given up on seeking them or depending on them, as far as things I do offline.

Tony Awards are this Sunday, June 9th. Any thoughts about the nominees? [tonyawards.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

Haven't a clue. I honestly have not been following Broadway for a while now, just attending local theater productions.

This question is prompted by a conversation I had with a coworker at lunch today.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

I have learned the really hard way this decade that there are not certainties about the future. Once you reach my age or even 50, you have to start doing things and enjoying what you have as much as possible (easier said than done, of course) because the health of you or your SO may suddenly go at any time or one of you may even die. So from age 50 on, we really need to take the trips and go ahead with the bucket list, etc., rather than assuming we have another 30 years or more left with good health the whole time.....The stats show that is often not the case.....

Team Biden? Yikes! [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

I hope it's true that most likely Dem primary voters are waking up and realizing what I already have known for years, namely that he is Repub-lite, a corrupt, warmongering, corporatist jerk. The Dems will lose for sure if they nominate him and if so, I won't cry a tear for them or vote for their lesser evil candidate. We will see if they care more about keeping a progressive out of the White House and maintaining the status quo or about winning the prez race. I already know which the party leaders and superdelegates care more about. Sorry about the accidental italics, don't know how to undo it.

No problems here, man.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

Reminds me of that cat OD'd on catnip in the commercial for The Secret Life Of Pets movie that's out now.

Feeling nothing?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

I am definitely more sensitive than most people, esp. other males, but that is both a good and a bad thing. It's a good thing, for example, that when I go into a place like Wal-Mart, I can pay attention and be aware enough to see how bad most of the people there feel about themselves, esp. the ones working there. The place has the mood of a prison, at least as I see prisons. Nobody really enjoys being there, the look of weariness and defeat on the faces of many people in there, etc. I think it is good to have that kind of empathy and compassion for others. On the other hand, being too sensitive can be exhausting and unhealthy if I am getting regularly overwhelmed or worn down by feeling negative stuff about what is happening to me or others I care about. It can start to be somewhat like the John Coffey character in The Green Mile, feeling the weight of the world upon you with all the negative stuff going on around you. You definitely have some mental health issues. So do I with depression, so do most of us, if we are honest, because it is not easy to live so far out of the mainstream in culture and lifestyle from the society around us. Hang in there and give yourself some credit that you don't live in denial about your feelings and who you are or, worse, blot all that out like many Americans by escaping into recreational drugs or alcohol.

There are points in your life where you make decisions.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

I'm amazed that back in the day Match had a long questionnaire. Nowadays, I think about the only one that still does is E-Harmony. I would rather use a site that had that than one that didn't, but I have a couple issues with E-Harmony that keep me from using them. One is that the site is for people who want marriage and I have no intention of doing that again, simply because it isn't necessary or something I want at my age without kids. Secondly, they have a dysthymia scale as part of their personality survey and I would undoubtedly get rejected by them as a member because of that, so I'm not going to bother with them.

There are points in your life where you make decisions.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

We are all different Robert, so it's hard to judge someone else's decision on a situation such as yours back then. I can certainly relate. After I had already been dating my late wife for a couple years, she and I learned that her mother had dementia and my wife had already known or maybe suspected that her grandmother has also had it, so I was in a position around the time we got married of either deciding to cut my losses and split with her, or instead, choose to live with hope rather than fear, that she might not inherit the family genetics of dementia like the women before her or at least not develop it until age 75, like her mother. If I remember right, my wife was in her mid-50s at that time. I chose the latter and she didn't begin to develop dementia until almost age 69, in 2011. So we had 16 good years of dating and marriage before it went bad with the dementia. Regrets, sure I have a few, but they are more about how I handled her dementia some of the time, esp. in the early stages as I was trying to accept it and figure out how to cope with it. But as far as, should I have stayed in the relationship or not after finding out what was probably going to happen with her? Not a bit, it was hell for much of the time during her dementia, but that relationship was still worth it, to me at least. I cannot speak for anyone else as to if it would be worth it. We can only make those choices for ourselves and not judge or choose for others because, in the end, we are the ones who have to do the suffering for those choices and live with the results, esp. not somebody else sitting in judgement who hasn't been thru it. Thanks for sharing some very honest, genuine stuff. You are an ok guy, Robert.

I'm finally here after all these years.🤗

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

Sounds cozy and like living the dream to me......

It looks like I have messed up yet again.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:

I can relate to a lot of what you said. Getting to know some of the women on this site thru the discussion boards is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it proves to me that I am not undateable at all, unlike my experience with Match, which only makes me feel frustrated and discouraged about the process of finding someone compatible to date. And I think that is because the vast majority of people on here are very different, mostly in a good way, from the mainstream population of the US, particularly that of my local area. However, that's probably why there are very few active members here from my area, and those that are skew more towards being male. The result is that while the site provides me some validation that I am not undateable and am compatible with a decent number of hipster non-believers, it also probably provides me some false or artificial hope that is not very realistic for finding someone compatible in my local area, where there seem to be very few women my age, at least on Match, who are available and looking to date who share the same qualities as most of the women my age here on Agnostic. And one of those qualities, if the women on Agnostic are being honest here on the boards, is that they are more open-minded and less shallow about looks than most women on sites like Match. It almost feels torturous at times. I don't blame this site for my frustration, but the difference between it and sites like Match is huge, tho much of that is because this site allows people to get familiar with others more deeply and naturally instead of the very impersonal, competitive, and brief introduction process of the paid sites, as well as the fact that is attracts a very different, non-conformist type of member than a paid site, which will attract more often people who are more mainstream than us in culture and lifestyle.

Ever have a desperate dater? Ugh.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 3, 2019:

Stalker alert.......

Why do you use agnostic.com?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 3, 2019:

It serves some of those same purposes for me too. Yesterday I shared about my father's death both here and on FB. It was interesting to see the differences between the responses on the respective mediums. I got some very sincere, touching responses on FB, but I think the ones on here were more helpful, meaningful and comforting, probably because the commenters on here share my non-belief and are more honest and outspoken.