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99 9

So after reading some comments on an FB post, I became very curious. I hope to keep this post relatively mature as it is of a personal nature. I have a few different questions/comments to present...

  1. As someone who plans to adopt and potentially have her own, something I never realized I may need to consider is if I'll have a son circumcised. What is your opinion and why? Please don't be too graphic, I am a LADY?. Parents, I'm most interested in hearing how you made your decisions with your own sons.

  2. Do you think that majority of those that have been circumcised was due to religious reasons or just the assumed norm?

  3. I hate when women push their beliefs on this topic, while also ask men to stay out of decision-making when it comes to women's reproductive rights. Have your opinion, sure. Please don't ever argue against a Male on this topic though. Agree? Disagree?

Kassandra 6 June 29

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20

I am 100% against infant/child circumcision, unless there's a specific medical reason that child needs it. The American Academy of since 1975 has started that "there is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn."

Once someone is an adult, they are welcome to do whatever they want to themselves, including circumcision for religious or cosmetic reasons. But, absent a specific medical reason, parents should not have part of their child cut off.

If you have any doubt, remember that it's irreversible. If you don't circumcise, your son can always choose circumcision as an adult. But if you do circumcise, your son can't get his foreskin back.

cmadler Level 7 June 29, 2018

That
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It’s equivalent to female genital mutilation— we KNOW that’s barbaric and done to suppress sexual enjoyment, mostly done for purity/religious purposes... if you think full stop FGM is wrong, why is MGM not? They both are. I originally didn’t think much of it until I read up on it from a friend being diehard against it.

@ScientistV Oh come on - it's not equivalent to FGM! If it was, the whole penis would have to be cut off......

@GoldenDoll incorrect, FGM is region specific, from removal of the clitoris, the removal of the labia,or stitching the labia majora closed after removal of the clitoris, and as there are mishaps, there are botched MGM in which the head of the penis is entirely removed or even more of the penis, either way— if you think removing parts of a little girl’s sex organs is wrong you SHOULD feel the same about doing that to a little boy.

@ScientistV well of course I feel the same about little boys. And I know all about the different forms of FGM thanks, first hand. My stepdaughter was an FGM victim.

@GoldenDoll then how do you find it NOT parallel?

For bodily purity and religious ritual you take your kid and get this thing done... in some cases in highly unhygienic ways that can cause long term damage, in other areas by “experts” who can do worse by slipping— or is your point legality since in the US it’s legal to do it to boys but not girls? I’d give you THAT half-point but we WERE discussing the ethics thereof not legality.

@ScientistV Because full FGM includes cutting off the clitoris, which is equivalent to cutting off the WHOLE PENIS. Or do they do this to boys as well for 'bodily purity or religious ritual'? Maybe that's one I don't know about. And you know exactly where you can shove your half point.

@GoldenDoll “the entire clitoris” is actually inaccurate, because medical doctors barely grasp the full shape of it. They cut off the equivalent of the HEAD of the penis, but an uneducated layperson like yourself even WHEN you know a person who had it done can’t figure it out. You’re a pretentious cunt, lady.

@ScientistV lol. I have had discussion with this member before. I did not use personal epithets against her but had her block me as I was obviously disturbing her cognitive dissonance. Please pm me if she does the same to you and blocks you. My suspicion is that it is a guilt driven thing that results in many arguing against known fact in order to justify their past behaviour. I have found it interesting that the Australian psychologists have not commented on my hypothesis that much violence against women and elder abuse results from the damage of being betrayed when most vulnerable by the supposed "saints" in our lives our mothers authorising or failing to protect against mutilation.

@GoldenDoll FGM is not equivalent to cutting off the entire penis; it is, however, quite close to circimcision. See, circumcision was pushed by conservative individuals to lower the rates of teen pregnancy and fornication in general. When you remove the foreskin you greatly reduce the sensitivity of the penis. These same people intended to have the same done to the female clitoris, but they pushed this during the women’s rights movement, and as women were already in a battle to get many other rights, they managed to avoid instituting what was referred to as “female circumcision”

Your facts are all wrong. FGM has been around for thousands of years. The world does not revolve around America. Go educate yourself.

@GoldenDoll with all due respect “Doll” your level of closed mindedness and ignorance doesn’t belong on this site.

19

I feel quit strongly about this one,.... for numerous reasons, but firstly I want to say that rather like evolution & whether or not the earth is flat,.... science has spoken firmly on this one. The research has been done, the evidence is in and it is unambiguously nonsense. It is nonsense that has known & quantifiable risks and side affects attributed to it. So for that reason alone, don’t do it.

But for me, this is the biggie. It’s not your body, so the rights that you have over your son’s body are not infinite. You’re probably unlikely to tattoo your baby, or pierce it’s belly button, because you know that in doing so you infringe your child’s right to choose when it’s old enough. Same with circumcision,..... only far more so, because many ‘growdups’ DO actually choose to get a tattoo,.... whereas I’m prepared to bet that the number of 25 year olds feeling the urge to pay someone to scalpel off their foreskin is,..... small!!

Male genital mutilation (let’s call it what it is), is nothing more than a religious, tribal throwback, and I dissagree with several of the other well informed commentors, in that this is not in fact ‘your choice’. It is your son’s choice when he is old enough to do so.

Thank you for this comment

@Kassandra you’re very welcome. Thanks for the opportunity to rant! 🙂 x

14

Thank you to everyone who gave your insight, opinions, and personal experiences - except @crazycurlz.

I think I need to do more research on the topic for my own due diligence, but this thread has been helpful in aiding my decision-making. Much appreciated everyone!! (Except @crazycurlz)

Oh, Kassandra, you are BAD! 🙂

seems you're catching on very well.

@Lukian @Gareth I don't mean to lower myself to that level, but I just want to make it clear if you're going to call out people, and you cannot just give your opinion once and stop forcing your opinions down others' throats - it will be noticed.

Kassandra, I wish you well on your adoption, all children deserve a loving home. When you open up a discussion on a hot topic like circumcision, that is what you should expect: discussion, even if it becomes heated.

Ha! So funny it is you are....! 🙂

@crazycurlz thank you for the well wishes. And I love heated discussions - that is not the issue here though. Most commenters were very pleasant in their conversation- even when they disagreed. No one else commented on MULTIPLE other comments trying to argue and shove their opinions down one another's throats. You do realize that NO ONE is going to listen to you or think you have any credibility when you do that right? It's just the wrong way to approach a debate. Look up some pointers, come back, and try again. You might have better luck and won't have to coerce people then.

@Kassandra I agree. Throwing out accusations of ignorance, bias and cloaked anti-semitism is not the way to go in this community. I don't need that in my daily feed and rather than get sucked into responding I will eventually block the person, as I've done in this case.

@Gareth great idea!

14

I have three sons. None are circumcised. They’ve had zero issues. There is no “extra” cleaning or care required. We decided against it mainly because there is no medical reason. It opens up risk for infection. All of my boys were premature and though none required nicu care, they did have some minor issues and we didn’t want any added stress. It also required them to be separated from me which was against our parenting practices and beliefs at the newborn stage. And finally we just kinda thought the owner of the penis should make that decision.

Several things come to mind.. if you are a believer then god made an error.. oops.. I forgot one thing.. Secondly there is no medical reason. I was born this way.. Glad Mom made the right decision.

13

After reading about female genital mutilation, I decided I couldn't deliberately cut off a piece of my son's body for no reason other than "to look like someone else".
This decision was cemented by my sister (an MD, in Sweden, who had NEVER seen a male patient who had wanted one, almost never seen a man with one, and never been asked to performed one herself; she said there was absolutely NO medical reason for it and most of Europe doesn't do it).
Just in case I wasn't 100% sure of my decision, my nephew was born a couple of months before my son; he had a traditional bris (circumcision with a Jewish ceremony), and they cut off too much (!!!!) - he ended up with a large wound which took much longer to heal than expected, constantly stuck to his diaper (causing him SCREAMING pain when he was changed I& the scab was repeatedly pulled off), and put him at risk for VERY serious infections (they were lucky, they caught each one before it got serious) - the whole thing was absolute torture to that infant.
Meanwhile, my son is 23, autistic (on the moderate to severe side, not the "mild" version), and has NEVER had a single issue with his penis. We taught him to clean himself when he bathed, and he does. If a disabled child can learn to keep himself clean, anyone can.

13

I'm not a parent yet but I'd not recommend cutting of my little boys penis. That is a decision I'll leave to him.

I'm from Africa (Kenya) and most circumcision there is done as a rite of passage to adulthood. Most cultures have ceremonies were they perform the act on boys.

I personally see it as a form of genital mutilation. It's a common practice but that doesn't mean it's not male mutilation. We label female mutilation as inhumane and forget the boy child also gets maimed.

I agree. There's a huge double standard. It's also very perverted. Culture has no business interfering with people's genitals.

Yep, my Nigerian ex-husband had it done to our son, and his first child, a girl, had it done too.

@Storybook The son thing was ok - I was still crazy in love and thought the husband knew best. My son is now a strapping 6ft3in and none the worst for it I suppose - too late to worry about it now! But the stepdaughter's mutliation broke my heart, and I could never get over it. She died when she was 9 of sickle cell.

@GoldenDoll so sorry to hear of what your family has gone through.

11

Unless there is a medical necessity - there is no good reason to do this - if the male will have access to soap and water and learns general good hygiene. (Retracting the foreskin to wash).

This is done to male infants without any anesthesia.
Having part of the body removed for non-medical reasons doesn't make sense to me.

My sisters and I discussed this when my first nephew was born.
With the knowledge we had over 36 years ago - we could see it had been mostly a choice to "look like Dad". Or to follow a religious practice.

That has changed markedly - and we're swinging towards men not being circumcised now. (In the US). So even that old chestnut is no longer true.

Also if you wait for the child to make his own choice - he will get anesthesia. (as an adult).

It's completely barbaric and perverted.

The foreskin is attached until a certain maturity and therefore should not be retracted as it causes damage.

10

first congrats @Kassandra this post is huge and trending! (although I think this argument was done a month or so ago and the same peeps on the same side). Here's my 2 cents:

  • every medical procedure is risky (infection) so advisable only if medically required
  • Men have lived with a prepuce (foreskin) for hundreds of thousands of years without ill effect otherwise we would have evolve away from having one.
  • I like my turtleneck... you can make a puppet show out of it. (ok 3 cents now)
Lukian Level 8 June 29, 2018

@Storybook Thanks I needed someone to laugh at my peni$... wink.

Puppet show? That’s freaking hilarious

Unfortunately I did not see the previous post, but I'm glad more people are actually questioning it and spreading their personal experiences.

Thanks for your 3 cents. Lol

Is your puppet one eyed or what?
Someone not long ago photoshopped one of our wannabe prime ministers to replace his crown and forehead with a penis. It was very well done, you couldn't see the seam but unfortunately he has not taken the hint and quit politics.

@FrayedBear google puppetery of the peni$. They are an act. You can find them in YouTube.

10

Several tribal and religious (is there a difference?) groups have engaged in various forms of genital mutilation, both male and female. Circumcision is just one of them and it has been practiced in several different areas.

One of the arguments that has been used to try to justify circumcision is hygiene. In some regions/climes it may have been marginally justified, but we have learned so much about hygiene that the argument no longer holds any weight.

I would say that in these days circumcision is not necessary for any reason. I was circumcised, but my son is not nor are any of my grandsons. It is your decision, of course, but I would recommend against it.

Thanks for a considered response. Very refreshing after a lot of other angry & entitled replies.

@GoldenDoll , very nice and refreshing reply to you as well. Thanks to all who responded decently.

9

I had my son circumcised because I never even thought of the issue. I thought that it was just what you did. That was 32 years ago. If I were to have a son now, and having heard arguments against it I wouldn't have it done.

That was reasoning also. The first time I saw an uncircumcised penis I actually said. "Eww, what's wrong with it?"

Totally killed the mood.

@PhoebeCat and I feel just the opposite. As in all things, it's okay to have differences.

@crazycurlz you're free to prefer circumcised penises (EDIT: among your own sex partners).

That doesn't mean you should encourage other parents to cut any part of their boys' penises off, without their consent, absent medical necessity.

9

I think having an elective surgery to mutilate the genitals of baby boy's is wrong. There is no medical benefit to the surgery, only risks. I would also say that having an opinion on this topic is different than having an opinion on the reproductive rights of women because at this point the baby is already here and as a care giver, all opinions of the people who will be caring for this baby matter.

Mea Level 7 June 29, 2018

Awesome opinion on the reproductive rights. First time I heard this opinion and I see your point. Thank you.

On second thought, this is irreversible if we had circumcision done. So we are taking the right away from the baby boy who will grow up to be a Male. So while I agree that the two are very different and the care taker will ultimately have to make a decision one way or another. I guess my main concern are women who are not having to make that decision and decide to force their opinions on males.

@Kassandra, I'm all for bodily autonomy and I would say that it would be best to leave baby boys uncircumcised for that reason alone. If he wants to have it done later he can, if it is done now, his foreskin will never grow back.

9

Mine was done on religious grounds when i was about 4 or 5. I had a paracetamol then went under the knife. It was the worst experience of my life and as such my boys have been protected from it. Now they're adults they can do what they like but i suspect circumcision is not on their list of things to have done.

Nardi Level 7 June 29, 2018

@CoastRiderBill My ex-husband had our son circumcised - the baby got a shot of brandy, nothing else.

@CoastRiderBill And that was at the British High Commission Hospital in New Delhi - I remember they got an "expert" in to do it and the UK GP was all set up with his camera to take photos - bet my son would like to see those now!

@CoastRiderBill, @Storybook They said it was safer than an anaesthetic, which is probably true. He cried a lot.

@Storybook Yep.

8

Also as father neither of my two boys are NOT circumcised and we have never had a problem health wise.

We considered the religious aspect as we were both identifying as Christian at the time, but decided against it based upon the ideology of why it even existed in the first place, coupled with there being no medical value.. we just couldn't cut part of our sons dick off.. if that makes sense.

8

Really the only reason for circumcision is cosmetic. My son is not. I just had to teach him how to make sure it is clean. The doctor advised me to make sure the head pops out when he was younger. Nature put the foreskin there to protect the head of the penis why muck with.

azzow2 Level 9 June 29, 2018
8

I vote no. Unless there's a medical reason for doing so, circumcision is pointless.

8

unless there is a medical reason which does occur, its is just a cultural and religious notion. you are cutting the nerves, which some say may lead to erectile dysfunction. as a women how would you treat the social norm or clitoral removal? its no different .

Removing the clitoris is, in fact, very different. To be equivalent you would have to remove the whole penis, not just the foreskin.

no, its much the same, you are removing nerves when you do either, the nerves in cases where it effects the penis function.my point is valid

8

This is not something I would inflict on an infant. It is mutilation plain and simple. Like religion it should be undertaken voluntarily when one is an adult. Parents do not have the right to disfigure their children male or female any more than indoctrinate them with religion.

8

Penn & Teller did an episode of Bullshit! (S3E01) on this very topic. I highly recommend watching it.

Source:

I love Penn and Teller...great comedians. Please don't tell me they are your reference for all things medical

@crazycurlz And what are your terms of reference for all things medical? As you seem to have some of it wrong....

@crazycurlz No. My references for ALL things medical are doctors and other medical professionals. Just like the ones Penn & Teller referenced in this (and all of the other) episodes.

@GoldenDoll no I don't have it wrong. I think you may be motivated by prejudice. There is no comparison between circumcision and female genital mutilation. And there is no way to convince you of that.

@crazycurlz You have no idea what you're talking about. My stepdaughter was an FGM victim. My son was circumcised by his nigerian father. Please don't talk to me about prejudice. You have your wires crossed

Thank you. I will check it out.

@crazycurlz @Kassandra Both mutilations. Both unnecessary. Both performed without the adult consent of the mutilated. Both cripple for life. Both result in psychological damage. Both reveal the sickness of the guardians authorizing the action.

8

My suggestion would be to read up on the pros and cons and the potential long term problems of either choice. Make your decision on as much information as you can get, medical and anecdotal. Good luck. 🙂

Betty Level 7 June 29, 2018
8

I made the decision to not circumcise my son for a couple of reasons. First, after extensive research and consultations with multiple physicians (through my local children's hospital) I deemed it medically unnecessary. Second, I choose to raise my children to explore what they believe is true to them, not just follow my beliefs (on religion). When they ask me questions like "do you believe in God...do you believe in evolution, etc" my only answer to them is "what do YOU believe? And why do you believe that? I don't want them to grow up to just regurgitate my beliefs and thoughts. And rarely, if ever, have I shared my beliefs about religion and God with them. But...that's just me. I also understand people wanting to instill tradition and rituals into their children.
So, after making my decision, I also decided if the day came at any point in my son's life that HE decided he wanted to be circumcised, I would financially and emotionally support his decision.

Bethi Level 4 June 29, 2018

I hope to raise my children the same. Thank you for your insight.

7

To anyone who thinks there is a difference between mail and female "circumcision".

Cut that clitoris because if your mom couldn't enjoy sex then why should you.

It's like cutting off the penis foreskin so the boy's penis looks like his dads because apparently that shits important to god but in this day and age there is no reason to do it to a baby.

Religious genital mutilation, because god perfectly created you.

And if nobody is circumcised then no one with think it's weird that your not.

Just say no to arbitrary chopping up children's body parts just because it's tradition.

Fitra ?!

Sorry, no, female circumcision is done specifically to keep females under control and stops her sexual pleasure , and is done when a girl is old enough to be traumatized by it. Circumcision is not for any of these reasons.

@Punkrockgirl77 Agreed, but while the purpose, timing and intent may be different they are still the same thing, they are both still the arbitrary chopping up children's body parts just because it's tradition.

7

I‘m not a parent or have any religious purpose for wanting it done. personally I wouldn‘t do it. There may be benefits but there are also risks and I think the process causes a fair bit of pain. Leave it to them to decide when they are old enough but I always think along the lines of, if it don't need fixing ,don’t fix it. After all the foreskin was in our blueprint along with everything else including our appendix before anyone says, well that serves no useful purpose.

There is evidence that the appendix has very important purpose and function. Please read:
What is the function of the human appendix? Did it once have a purpose that has since been lost? - Scientific American [cmcm.com]

@FrayedBear That’s interesting, as medical science progresses the more we find out,all the more reason to leave the foreskin as well.

7

My son wasn't circumcised and unfortunately falls into the category of those who should have been. He has the dreaded tight foreskin so at age six he was at the urologist and we tried the steroid creams and as an adult he has had a tear to the frenulum, minor surgery for that and still sometimes experiences discomfort on the job so to speak. He would have been far better off without the bloody thing (foreskin not anything else).

Since my son is far more open on these matters than most men, it does make me wonder whether there is actually a vast underreporting of problems relating to the retention of the foreskin. Men are very protective of their genitalia and the last thing most of them are going to do is admit there is a problem in that department.

Just food for thought.

Kimba Level 7 June 29, 2018

But god the creator of the entire universe and perfect in every way had a little problem when it came to foreskins. Just couldn't quite get that right... oh and he needs our cash for the church roof too.

@Nardi Well if it was good enough for Jesus ....Luckily you can still go and see Jesus's foreskin, in many different places - I think there are over 20 Holy Prepuces which are claimed to be "the one". Fascinating.

@Nardi what bad dope have you been smoking?

A problem can arise from infection with thrush. There is now a one tablet solution that frequently overcomes the problem of foreskin tightening and loss of elasticity resulting in it trying to garrotte the head.

@FrayedBear lol just quoting hitchens on the subject sorry.

@Nardi I reckon 3 hours in the sin bin for that one! ... "agnostics don't have sin bins." "Oh spewy, go and mumble in the corner then" .... curmudgeonly shiny goes off grumbling stage right.

7

Occasionally for medical reasons, but do any other male mammals need to get circumcised? Or female for that matter? I was done and would love to sue my parents and all involved, my son wasn't and is thankful.

7

It seems an unfair decision to make for someone who has no say in the matter.

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