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I've asked this question in a different forum, and the answers were interesting. I am relatively new back into dating, divorce was final a year ago. In this day and age, guys, how do you navigate dating with all the sexual misconduct (or worse) issues happening? And ladies, are there particular things you do protect yourselves from the very real threat? I am just speaking in general here, I am truly interested, and not just a little nervous, about this having been out of the dating life for over 25 years.... Then again, maybe I'm just looking to hard into this out of nervousness.

MarcT 7 Sep 28

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2

Me too. 25 years married and separated about 3 years. I've no idea how to behave but I have read that I would walk a tightrope between being a gentlemen and recognising women's equality. I've never had to give the new rules a try because I don't know where available women my age are in the real world. I've read that many of them are lonely too. The one thing that might always be a constant is probably to make them laugh. I hope you have better luck finding them.

If you take the safe ,she may think you've lost interest in her,but if you ask to hold her hand(s) is that being viewed as too aggressive?

I think men are still expected to make the first move. Then the woman makes a judgement call on that move. My guess is the move is aggressive if she doesn't want it and manly if she does.

@Mike1947 the key thing there is asking her. It’s simple and if done gently and kindly allows everything to be clear. They either say yes or no. Ta dah!

10

Sorry, I've been a good human my entire life and never proceeded past a point that another human indicated that I shouldn't.

I'm willing to, and invite, an FBI investigation into my account.

8

My behavior has not changed in the slightest. No problems before. No problems in the present climate.

The me too movement & the like has made me realize that it is not uncommon for men to act in a sexually aggressive manner. I had my suspicions of course. Well, I guess I discovered why I’ve always felt a bit disadvantaged in the dating arena compared to the alphas.

...thanks;glad that was stated.

8

Dont send dick picks or cock shots within the first 5 minutes ...Excuse the terminology.
I really don't get the mindset! I mean , if I met a guy in the pub and he dropped his pants within a few sentences...I would probably fall about the floor laughing
In addition, being a nurse of 34 years...I have seen more male genitalia than I care to mention. Internet should not give men the right to flash there bits carte blanche at the female populace !
Started the dating thang very naive...boy ! What an eye opener!
Am now somewhat cynical, but by no means bitter .
However , I am quite sure there are decent gents out there ....once you sort the wheat from the chaff....
Phew !
Catharsis over.

Now that I know you're a nurse, can I send a dick pic just to get your professional opinion?

7

Watch out for "mirroring." Someone you meet and start dating who will mirror what you want and need in a relationship therefore drawing you in. These are people who will promote the whole notion of soul mates, and how they feel you are their soul mate. Time is your best friend in figuring out what someone is all about. Don't be afraid to take it slow, form a friendship first and really get to know someone, then take it to the next level.

7

Edit: The first item in this list is neither a ploy for attention, nor a discussion prompt. See my profile for more info before replying with a rebuttal, please.

  1. I'm not very attractive to start with, so that rachets down the whole stress level for me quite a bit. I am very happy about this! I don't give a tinker's fuck about appearances--mine or anyone else's!
  2. I'm rabidly anti-social, so that takes care of most of the rest of it. I give off an aloof, unapproachable vibe without even trying, and I'm totally cool with it.
  3. I naturally avoid eye-contact most of the time; whenever I sense a guy is interested in me I really avoid eye-contact, and keep my head down.
  4. I'll change course and/or turn my back if I think I'm being followed or watched (as a female skateboarder and runner, it happens with distressing regularity). Nobody gets a free peep show if I can help it. If I'm feeling particularly salty, I'll stare back, scowl, make a mocking faux-shocked expression like the ones I'm so used to seeing when I board...maybe I'll even spit.
  5. Depending on where I'm going, what I'm doing, and what kind of mood I'm in, I'll engineer my outfit to hide my figure or generally not draw attention.
  6. I might wear a fake wedding set or engagement ring, but I know it's no real assurance of anything
  7. Pepper spray.

I don't drink anymore, and the only people who ever really approached me were drunk men, so I think I'm okay in that department. It's the ones who goggle at me like I'm a two-headed snake when I'm boarding that worry me. I've been followed, harassed, photographed. I have no idea the phones my picture is in right now, who's saying what about me...and that terrifies me a little.

Honestly this response makes me a little sad... I’m sorry you have to go through this.

@MarcT women with more conventionally attractive features than I have get far worse, every day, all day long. I'm getting off easy. If a woman can't smile at a man, it's probably on account of something like this, or worse.

Don't put yourself down. You look fine and I'm sorry you have to go to all this trouble.

@DenoPenno I have some pretty extensive replies in another thread about how unconcerned I am with my appearance. I am not putting myself down; I am making a clear-eyed assessment that is (for the most part) free from socialized pressures. You've pretty well proven the point I was making in that other thread. 😉

I love humans. But they are also incredibly boring n self obessed sometimes ?

6

Ask for her driver license, take a picture and send it to the BMV for verification and have her take a selfie pointing a big sign saying "It is consensual, I an not a minor and I am not being forced in any way, shape or form" then print a copy and have her sign it in front of a lawyer and three whitness were two at least must be woman with proper age pre verification process already conducted by the FBI and all Democrats in your local county just in case.. and even then.......

Sorry, I am confused by your comment. Are you saying women and children’s right to be respected and not exploited is somehow tedious and an overbearing burden on men? Or are you claiming men are victims of a conspiracy involving Democrats, women and children? Or perhaps you are trying to make some kind of incel joke?

Alternatively just be a decent person, don’t sexually harass anyone and you’ll be just fine.

Sure - if the loss of those historic privileges to harass people with impunity, is affecting you, then you could entirely misunderstand how to behave - see above for a strong example of this. But in general it’s extremeky simple - just behave like a decent person. Nothing more needed.

@Livia You can be all confused you want, that's your choice and I have no control over that whatsover. Secondly, yes it's a thing called humor. You may want to try it sometime, it can be sort of fun if no one tries really hard to ruin it. But thanks for your comment anyway.

@OwlInASack Agree, it's part of what I am saying. If things will move to an extreme (#MeToo comes to mind) then being decent won't matter anymore. It's a sensitive subject and we are making things worst.

@IamNobody I have to disagree with you completely. The argument that #MeToo has gone too far appears to be an article of faith straight from the Mens’ Rights Activist handbook.

There is nothing vaguelynextreme about #MeToo unless you think treating women with respect and not harassing them is extreme.

What’s extreme is men continuing to insist on being allowed to harass and intimidate women (including through the old trope of “humour” ) despite it being abundantly clear that this need to stop. Now.

To claim that men don’t know how to behave around women now is just revealing about the men involved.

@OwlInASack back to my original point and now this is no humor neither a joke. Things will come down to a legal contract of sorts to be able to prove (after the fact of course) that indeed it was with consent. Is that how we want to do things now? No need to loose our minds over this, I am too old to even worry about those things myself. I am just wondering if this mess will set the stage to ruin anyone's life based on whatever may have happened or not in highschool. It's ridiculous

@IamNobody I understand what you’re saying but the point many blokes have missed is how many womens’ lives have been ruined without something better than the status quo. I think I’ll trade the very slight possibility that some people (mostly fellas) may struggle to get it right on this in exchange for the whole of womankind not living a nightmare.

@IamNobody also your joke is identical to the privileged and very serious whining we get from those chaps who quite enjoyed being able to harass women with impunity, so tricky to know it was humour

@OwlInASack well the cat is out of the bag now...it was/is humor

@IamNobody I’m not meaning to beat you up on this stuff (honestly) but I think that for many of us men there’s a world right next to us we don’t appreciate: the world that most ordinary women live in.

I was stunned to discover about 5 years ago that my missus holds a set of keys in her fist to fight off male attackers if she’s walking round at night: I thought - that’s a bit extreme! After all we live in one if the safest places in the world don’t we? Transpires all her female mates do exactly the same. I could choose to argue or I could choose to think about it and maybe listen for once. I’m not great at it: being born make so knowing everything by instinct mitigates against me needing to really listen to anyone else. I’m learning slowly.

Then read the advice the women in this thread dish out as completely normal and you will see that standard male behaviour is clearly absolutely dreadful.

Put #MeToo against that and there’s not much to say other than: I won’t be that areshole

@IamNobody and @OwlInASack, dating women isn’t adversarial. I did not appreciate the humor because most people, mainly men, don’t appreciate how horribly widespread child abuse and rape of adult women is. Out of all my friends few have not suffered. That includes 5 adult males who were sexually abused by men as children. The women I am friends with, have had all types of abuse from financial control of their own earnings, physical and emotional violence, drunk forcing of sex by husbands that don’t remember it the next day. Single friends have been felt up in crowded elevators or trains, or been hit on by the boss and treated badly when the interest was not returned, date raped by drunken boys at university. If you ask any woman, a male will have has done something creepy or violent towards them at some time. None of this means we don’t enjoy dates or sex, we just don’t want to be forced, pressured, or coerced. The rules are this:
Flirting doesn’t mean permission
Lunges are not advisable- it’s very cute and attractive to be asked.
Asking you home for coffee is not consent.
Wearing tight jeans and a T-shirt that shows our nipples is also not consent.
We may be in bed with you and even in the midst of the act itself, and decide it hurts or doesn’t feel right (too rough or it’s crossed a boundary or triggered a memory) and when we say stop, the person we are with has to stop.
All men need to do is treat a woman as they would treat the most respected person in their lives, and ask us if we want or are enjoying something. That is what makes us want more of you.
I belittlement via humor is part of the problem - it a denial of our experiences and it’s men switching around who is the victim here. We are asking for our stories to be noticed so men can make changes to what they have seen as their right for too long. No one wants to document their consent with a contract- it’s absurd. We want to enjoy dating and having sex with chemistry and magic too. Men get raped as well of course- victims want victim prevention and to be respected.

@OwlInASack You're not beating me, at least I didn't take it that way. You see things your way and I say things my way. We can talk about it and agree to disagree, that should be just fine.

@OwlInASack, @Livia Case ..... Just so we are clear, I am not talking about the creepy guy knocking unconscious a girl in the park in the middle of the night or the one that break in her appartment and rapes and kill everyone. Of course not...... This is plain satire and sarcasm painted as "humor" ONLY (and I cannot emphasize the word ONLY strong enough) about the presented allegations after 36 years with no evidence at all. Any other story or comments, as I am very well aware there are, are not part of the scope of this discussion. It's not that I am not interested in those or that I am demeaning anything, it's just such a big subject that probably would be a good idea to narrow it down. Talking about it, one way or another should help to move things forward.

@IamNobody I think the point is that the #MeToo movement is not just about those extreme situations either, but about the chillingly mundane every day that huge numbers of women experience.

And the movement had been belittled and derided by a wide range of people - some women included - who either fail to understand the magnitude of the issue or worse, don’t care.

The expectation of ‘evidence’ for old claims is also problematic. What could there possibly be? And yet the research explains very clearly to us why both men and women (and other) do not report abuse. It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And yes the imperative to believe claimants does create sone tensions occasionally: I’ll live with that if that’s what it takes to change the culture of abuse with impunity that we have now.

6

I just treat women the way I would want someone to treat my mom, sister, daughter, or niece. It's not that tricky. Be polite, sincere, and respectful. Avoid vulgarity, risque remarks, and don't be too forward. Let things evolve.
But above all, don't worry too much about those who are overly sensitive or fearful. Women who view all men as threats or evil are not worth your time any more than tolerating racism is.

6

I've been on some bad dates, and im a bit jaded. My advice is if you keep your hands to yourself, refrain from showing her your dick, let the conversation of sex develop naturally over time you'll probably be o.k. as a female I only meet in public places and always drive myself until I feel really comfortable with him.

I find it so tragic that you need to give this advice: shocking really that anyone needs it!

6

As a small woman, I insist on meeting in a public place, a healthy restaurant or cafe', preferably for lunch (daylight). Never drink alcohol.

I drive myself to avoid being in a strange man's car alone.

Arriving early, I tell the waiter that I'm meeting a man for the first time through online dating. I ask if someone can walk me to my car if the date goes South.

Restaurant staff are always happy to help keep me safe.

I like small women

6

Be respectful. Be yourself. Let a female friend eyeball your online profile for review. Don't get bitter over rejection. Always get clear, enthusiastic consent. Not too much else.

5

Just remember: saying hi to a girl without their expressed written and notarized permission is an egregious offense punishable by a a dose of bear mace to the eyes. Have fun out there 😀

Happy jerking off, then, if the burden of consent is too much for your fragile male ego.

You sad individual.

@Livia wow, someone is easily-triggered and devoid of a sense of humor or understanding of nuance. Consent is obviously an important component of any healthy relationship, but I what I was referencing in my initial post was this recent push by 3rd wave feminists to basically criminalize any social contact by a man that had not been pre-approved somehow by the recipient (yes, these people are 100% serious when they say that it is an "act of violence" for a man to initiate a conversation with a woman). Did you really think I was pushing for date rape or something? ?

@Jahrta nope, I don’t think you are pushing for rape. I am not easily triggered either. I just don’t think this is a humorous topic ever, because sexual abuse is so widespread.
Making a joke of it is dismissive of the effects it has on people. It can ruin marriage, pleasure in life, shame and familial discord. Men and children can also be victims, but no one makes jokes about their suffering or at their expense, because that would be distasteful. But women and rape, well it’s carte blanche for a good old chuckle and warnings about how far it’s going to go, if we get a bit of respect.
There is no 3rd wave feminism. It sounds like you need to read different books. There are indications that your booklist/reading materials are straight from the Alex Jones toy box.
As a feminist, take it from me: There is only feminism, no waves. We want equality and the same agency and rights as men, that’s all. And when we don’t want to kiss or fuck we just want that decision to be respected- it’s not that theoretical or radical.

@Livia I wrote a long response to your comment, but the system didn't post it for whatever reason and I don't feel like rehashing it. If you had ever bothered to actually read what I wrote you would see that I wasn't making a comment about how funny it was to rape or sexually assault someone. The entire point of my initial post was that nowadays there is a group of feminists pushing to criminalize the act of even contacting someone to initiate conversation, going so far as to label it a form of violence. It must be nice though to be able to know everything about someone from a two-sentence post. That's quite a skill you've cultivated. Still, you've never addressed the point that I made. would you like me to provide you a link so you know I'm not making this stuff up (you know, like how you made up a straw man of me that you could attack)? By the way if feminism was only about pushing for equal rights between men and women no one would have any problems with it and that's what it used to be back in the 1920s. If you don't know what 3rd wave feminism is then you're the one who needs to read a book.

@Jahrta wrongissimo! We can cross swords again on feminism another time, I actually have RSI and find texting really painful. I do read, but I am more Marxist theory than Men’s Rights Activism.

5

If you conduct yourself as a gentleman, and keep aware of how what you do affects others, that ought to take you most of the way through. Here's a tip : some people are for you, some are definitely NOT for you. How to tell the difference? That's the hard part. Good luck, brother.

Well said 🙂

5

I’ve had to reevaluate my own actions. Being a nurse, I’ve always been tactile.
If you’re starting to date,be a gentleman and always consider her safety. Always meet for the first few times in a public, neutral location.
Most importantly, if she says “no”, she means it and don’t get upset.

I second this

5

Be honest and straightforward. Don't brag and don't belittle yourself.Don't initiate smutty talk. Above all, don't feel rejected if it doesn't happen right away. There is someone out there for each of us. Good luck.

4

I do what I've always done: obtain consent before anything.

I’m not dating so doesn’t impact me but one of the things I think is really nice is that folks expect to be asked if you may kiss them. Saves that difficult lunge which might be so massively unwanted...

@OwlInASack I ALWAYS ask. It's polite and demonstratively so.

@maturin1919 yes! Exactly. But - I’m very happily married 22 years and back then I was shy so never made the first move. Hadn’t heard of the concept.l either. Now it’s gone mainstream it seems so obvious, such a great idea.

4

Sexual misconduct is not a “these days” thing. It’s a systemic issue to do with the way society has traditionally treated women and children. They are undervalued. Social media has allowed people of all genders and orientations to call out the injustice, especially when they were children or teens. If a man wants to know how to behave towards women the answer is simple - treat us like you would treat someone else in your life that you respect completely. If she wants to be with you sexually, she will let you know.
How do I protect myself from predators and cat fishing? I don’t date online. I take up a skill, or attend a group event so I can see people and read them in reality. I really recommend MeetUp for that reason. Even then you will never know if you have met Ted Bundy, so I will take it easy, and date again in public. Then he meets my gay male friends so he gets vetted by other men.

Livia Level 6 Sep 29, 2018

“Then he meets my gay male friends so he gets vetted by other men“

That’s hilarious! How very intimidating!

@OwlInASack it’s done in a subtle way, “The game is on tonight - fancy joining me and a couple of mates at bar x tonight for drinks?” He would never know. I’d bring a female pal too to balance it out.

@Livia I’m so glad I’m not dating! I feel so naive...I absolutely wouldn’t know I was being vetted but I’d be confused as to what was going on!

But for real, the advice women give out on here as to how to stay safe is utterly chilling. The desire to find a compatible partner is understandable - but against those situations?

4

Thanks so much for posting this question, and to you commenters for answering. I’m recently widowed, and haven’t been on a date since 1984, so this is quite relevant to me.

Reflections
© David John Love

Remember all those happy days, those times she called our own
In all those well-loved places where you now grieve alone.
And those small endearing gestures, which you thought you knew so well,
Are fading, as time passes, with her words, her kiss, her smell.

But then there is that moment, that time within the day,
When you feel she is beside you in that old familiar way.
But as you turn to see her smile or receive a tender touch,
There's only a dark shadow of the one you loved so much.
And tears begin to fall in that hole of deep despair,
And memories overwhelm you - more than your heart can bear.

As you remember her gentle grace and her love so soft but strong,
Your heart will simply miss a beat as you miss her life, her song.
You want to rewind the clock and say how much you care;
You want to silence the talk that she's not there to share.
But you smile and chat amiably to family and friends
And hope they do not notice your world is at an end.
But she knows that you will carry on because she told you true
That if she had to choose again, she would still choose you.

@Mike1947 Thanks. That’s great.

3

If using an online forum like this one or say match.com, read the profiles critically. A person should treat it like a resume or job application. Put some thought into it and you can assess someone pretty well. Works for me anyway. I've had dates where there just wasn't a connection, but never a bad one, been scammed etc.

Good luck and best wishes for success.

3

It's not easy. From my experience, there are two types of dates, hook ups and real people.

You will probably know right away if it's a person just looking for sex or someone to have a real relationship with.
I always meet at a well frequented place like Starbucks. Or maybe an afternoon at the park. My safety is minimal. I'm pretty trusting.

3

Here is a very simple rule of thumb and works in all kinds of situations. Just treat people with the same respect, kindness and thoughtfulness that you would like to be treated with and things will just work out naturally.

how ironic that you use the idiom "rule of thumb" in your reply considering from whence the saying originated....

@SkotlandSkye Well I was using it in a modern context. But here is the revised statement: "Here is a very simple idea and works in all kinds of situations. Just treat people with the same respect, kindness and thoughtfulness that you would like to be treated with and things will just work out naturally."

3

I didn’t really date before I was married for a long time, so I was a dating newbie after my divorce. Luckily my best friend taught me some basic safety rules.
First meeting always in a public place - do not give him your address nor get into his car on first meet.
Before date, give best friend time, location and info on date (name, phone number, etc)
Friend checks in at a pre-determined time to make sure you are ok.

As for guys - there is really nothing to be “worried” about if you treat women like human beings. Then, Make sure she’s into you before touching her. Make sure she is enthusiastically consenting to sex rather than “giving in” to persistence.

@Artzynerd I disagree- I would meet them face to face in a public place pretty quickly. That’s the best weeding tool. Some groomers and cat-fishers are masters of online rapport. It’s how they gain trust of even highly intelligent people. They work covertly with fake profiles and manipulate human needs and emotion. Very creepy.

@Artzynerd there is definitely a happy medium. Most sleazy guys will reveal themselves in about a dozen messages. After that, there’s not much you can get without a face-to-face.

3

Some couples have an instant magnetic attraction,others take a while for all the broken pieces to line up,much like a wonderful desert to "Gell", I believe lot's of e mail and texting before a date,may pave the way to reduce the jitters upon meeting,you and she are selling yourselves,do not rush,creating a loving couple(if that is your goal),is worth it.

3

I don't do first meets at someone's house. I don't give my real name on dating sites. I drive myself to dates. I drink alcohol sparingly, amd keep my wits about me.

There's also this new concept of affirmative consent. Like, instead of doing stuff and waiting for a no, or nonverbal sign the bahaviour is making her uncomfrotable, ASK FIRST. I like this, because it's hard to not understand a yes or no.

...i heartily agree
i met 5 ladies ,always public
beginings-we mutually decided
everything .As adults that is the way
relationships work-_-now and before?

3

Lost wife of 27 years in Sept.2017 to cancer,most online dating sites are full of scammers,lot's of "Catfishing" be aware of phone calls being redirected to countries other than the US. Local Women should be researched before falling for a beauty half your age,from the other side of the World.

3

If I understand your question (Is it about consent?), when in doubt, ask permission or have a discussion early on. If I were a guy, I know I would research how to protect myself from being perceived or even reported for wrongdoing. I see @Humanistheathen said it better just before my comment.

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