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I keep seeing people posting about the allegations of sexual assault against Bill Clinton and how Democrats turn their head when it's one of their own. (This is coming from people who either believe Dr. Christine Blasey Ford is lying or, they believe she was assaulted but think she is mistaken about who did it or, they just feel that sexual assault doesn't really disqualify Brett Kavanaugh from sitting on the Supreme Court.)

Actually, I believe the allegations of sexual assault by these women against Bill Clinton. So, please don't assume you know my thoughts on the matter. I would love to see someone actually go forward with a case against him and have him convicted. But, that's not happening. Until it does, there will be no retribution. I mean, think about it. Bill Cosby was considered "America's Dad" for years until these allegations came forward. And I would never have thought ill of the man until they did. Now, I hope he rots in whatever cell they put him in. I hope Harvey Weinstein is convicted too. I think that Al Franken did the right thing by stepping down. And if charges were brought against him, I would have supported the person bringing them too. So, stop trying to make this about party lines. When you do, you're just being an asshole for the sake of your party support.

Having said that, to the best of my knowledge, the first allegation against Bill Clinton was by Paula Jones and she didn't go public with it until 1994. That was a year after he was already in office. If she had gone public with these allegations before the election, you may very well have seen a different result at the polls during the primary or in the election (if he still made it as the choice in the primary).

These allegations against Brett Kavanaugh are being brought up before he gets the position. They need to be taken seriously. Yet, you're completely willing to disregard them as either false or irrelevant.

The claims against Bill Clinton were relevant. They were relevant enough to bring articles of impeachment against him. There were four total articles brought to the house. Two were considered strong enough to advance. Obstruction of justice and perjury. None of the Democrats in congress voted guilty. (Which I believe shows the stupidity of party support regardless of reality.) But, not all of the Republicans voted guilty either. so, he was acquitted on both accounts.

So, until someone brings charges against Bill Clinton for sexual assault, please shut the fuck up about him. It has no bearing on anything current. And if the women who were assaulted by Clinton don't move forward with charges, you're just throwing out distractions against what is currently going on because you don't want to face it and you don't want to admit that it's important. And that's a shame. You can't feel that sexual assault is a valid issue. You can only use it as a political tool. And, you care nothing for the victims.

Duke 8 Sep 30

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0

I have experienced both coercive and simple sexual advances. I have been up
close and personal with men that have some kind of undertone of overpowering or even tricking a female into a sexual encounter. I have been exposed to men that wanted to ‘overpower’ me, for their sexual pleasure and there is a big difference...one envokes fear, the other encounter, just needs a clear flat out refusal! I believe that Clinton comes under this last position and Kavanuagh comes under the former! There is a big difference and FEAR, is the element that makes the difference! I can refuse passion, but the power sexual player does not take no...does not even hear the word no, to the best of my knowledge! I remember very clearly Ken Star, and his pursuit of Clinton and the women and I believe Star ‘used’ them...Clinton may have even pressured these women for sex, but it was not the kind of force that says...I don’t care what you say, I want, what I want..,and you can’t stop me! I have experience with both of these sexual advances and there is a major difference! Plus, if too much force is used to fight of a ‘power sexual assault,’ you could get yourself killed!!

And the way u think Star used women to his advantage is the very same thing repubs believe Dems are doing right now to go against Trump.

@jorj it is not the same. I watched Star at work and Clinton’s behavior...sexual
assault is not the same as sexual attraction.

@Freedompath u did not watch the encounter he had with any of the accusers just like repubs defending Kavenaugh didn't watch what happened in the Ford encounter. If u can throw out her accusation because of who worked with her then they can throw out Ford's because of Feinstein working with her and her record of Trump hate and vowing to do all she can to stop him. It is no different at all.

@jorj I can’t follow your train of thought! I explained myself and this all started way before it ever got to Feinstein!

@jorj my firm belief is that there was some chemistry between these women and Clinton and it went over the line, and there was a power play here! A powerful person, will be an attraction to most women! But we don’t act on them! I have been attracted to many a man in my lifetime, but I knew when it was out of bounds...and not TO BE ACTED ON! So Star, gathered up all these women’s stories and made them abuses, assaults and sinful! I watched it go on from beginning to end! I remember it very clearly because, it became so ridiculous!

@Freedompath I'm just explaining how the other side is thinking, it's nothing personal on your stance. Both sides of this whole argument are using the same tactics about this issue selectively according to who the players are involved.

@Freedompath I also believe there was chemistry, just like I think there was chemistry with Trump and the women of his life as well. I understand women love rich and powerful men so until there is proof of any claim I by definition don't believe it when the timing of these accusations are suspect. Thirty years later....really?

@jorj it is a dangerous thing, thinking that you might know what other people are thinking! It is behaviors that you can gauge a few things on, but thinking that you know what others are thinking, will take you down a dead end! I cannot ever remember over my whole life time, meeting a mind reader!

@jorj trump showed us in his past that he does not recognize boundaries...he ‘took’ what he wanted, wheather there was chemistry there or not! We all have boundaries that should be respected! Trump still has no restraint, he shows little respect for anyone’s boundaries...be it someone that ticks him off, a member of the press and EVEN world leaders!

@Freedompath please show me where Trump is proven to have been guilty of sexual assault. I sure seen a few women accept money and a NDA instead of trying to get a legit rapist off the street to protect other women tho.

@Freedompath it's not mind reading when u are speaking in the generality of a group of people pushing a narrative. It's the common things said that tell u what the group as a whole is pushing. No where am I claiming to read someone mind.

@jorj there was a court case, that has disappeared about the rape of a 13 yr old child by TRUMP, there was a witness...the person who brought the girl to a party or gathering! I can’t possibly keep up with all that goes on where trump is concerned! You are free to research it yourself, many people on this site know about it as well! We have no idea what happened to it!! But, some of us can keep a lot in our minds...maybe not everything, but a gracious plenty!

@jorj be glad when you see a group of people, trying to bring ethical and morality, to the table! Everyone of us will be accountable, so no less than for a person that is to serve on The Supreme Court! I just read that Kavanuagh was demoted by the bar association on complaints! The article is on one of the post tonight!

@Freedompath problem is a don't see group trying to do that. I see two sides doing the same things as the other side but telling the other side how wrong they are. Only difference is who is and isn't allowed to be believed or not based on which side they are on. Once a side picks to be actually consistent on their principles I'll be happy then.

@Freedompath there was audio of Hillary getting a pedo off and laughing about it....lmao. Nothing wrong there when u hear the left talk. That is the double standard in a nut shell. Plus, it would bee hard to search it up if it has disappeared. Like I said, no convictions or he would have public records showing it because he would have went to jail. At best, someone settled for money and left this "evil rapist" out there to get others women so when that is done it is nothing but a made up story to get money.

@jorj struggling for answers never runs in a straight nor logical line. I see that you are disgusted with one or the other side, but this process is not simply and..,for sure all sides have ‘dug in!’ And this is not even finished, yet. Maybe if you are clear where you stand and then see if more information comes out that gives you more understanding one way or the other, you can more easily follow the process, without getting lost in the process! Does that make sense to you? You must settle your emotions so that they don’t get in the way, as you gather information! It is hard to process any thing when our emotions are running away with us. We can be angry, but we must not let our anger take over.

@Freedompath I clearly stand neutral because innocent until PROVEN guily is what I believe in

@jorj you say things, I say things, most of the time, I am clear of purpose and even keil and on occasion things come out of my mouth that I don’t mean and if, just those words are picked up, people might question my ‘smarts!’ Nobody is perfect, but what is at issue here is...we have a man of questionable character that is trying to get the position of a Justice on the Supreme Court...this is serious! We need to know this man’s background! When people break the law and go to court, everything possible will be brought to bear on this person. We should do no less with a lifetime appointment to the bench!

@jorj ok...then that is where you stand, until you have the information that you need to make a judgement one way or the other!

@jorj but, don’t get mad at other people because they are not processing information the same way you do. This will also, distract us from our own purpose of gathering information!

@Freedompath I agree it is serious, still don't change anything I've said here. I don't believe the woman because of the timing but if proof comes I'll accept it happily. The way people are selective in who and how they pick who to believe remains the same. I talk the issue but I don't hold Bill or Trump to any different standard. I don't get mad either, I understand people want to think I'm mad so they can dismiss anything they don't want to face that I speak of but that don't mean I am angry. When it's a chat box no context is given to even make judgement on that. Reading posts and trying to put the other person's emotions behind them only shows how the person talking about that feels about the topic. I haven't insulted or attacked anyone here and don't feel attacked. Actually l enjoy the talks we have had. From an emotionless unbiased look at both sides on the issue it's easy to see how both sides are identical. And as always I'm speaking in the general sense and looking at how FOX and such compares to MSNBC and such according to who is involved.

@Freedompath and I don't question your smarts at all. U make some great points all the time. I just don't think they change anything I'm saying.

@jorj I don’t have tv, and I found out that reading most all my news was better for me. I do not want to be ‘entertained’ getting my news. I want the facts about what took place and I will go to several different sources because I know that one source can’t possibly give me everything! Then I can make a decision, without having other people put their ‘emotional spin’ on the news! Don’t be afraid of legitimate anger...anger is in our nature for a purpose...it is how we use it that makes it useful or destructive! When we are angry, we need to own it and not strike out at others because of it. Just own it...and move passed it, after we understand what we were angry about. Anger is just an energy that needs it’s proper place and proper expression. And with practice you get better and better at using anger correctly! Just what i learned passing onto you...

@jorj a person can only change his/her mind when he/she gets enough information. That is why studing everything is helpful...you can never get too much information!! We can get tired of hearing something, but we can never get too much information! Just allow yourself to find your answers in your own time! If you believe something one way, just state your position and keep going...something in your position may or may not be important to someone else, but no one should be forced to ‘see’ something they can’t ‘see’...at that moment! That would not be ‘truth’ and I think most of us are searching for ‘truth!’

12

Mr Clinton couldn't keep his penis into his pants , and the ladies did not claimed anything " against my will ". I don't care where the president gets his excitement , that's between him and his wife . I can call him an idiot , but not a rapist .
I have no doubt in my mind than none president while on power at least , went through their marriages without cheating . Well , that's for their wives to worry . And for me to make my mind what type of weakness and what type of character they own . Mr Kennedy was doing anything that had two legs and breathing , including an actor who made a career based on looks and sex instead of actual acting . Ok . Not a rapist . If a murderer thou ......, I will had need a trial to help me w that .
The assholes we are dealing with in these days are different kind of animals . Unfaithful or cheap vagina or paid vagina is not the issue . Rape is .

Carreer made on sex and not a acting is a perfect description but be careful, that flirts the line of slut shaming. 😛

@jorj I wouldn't talk. You flirt all kinds of lines from what I'm reading! ?

@SukiSue I don't care to flirt with the lines tho, I'll even jump many lines in some people's eyes but oh well. People jump my lines and don't care so it's all fun and games.

@jorj really? Fun and games? ?

@SukiSue yeah, when I can't take either side of the aisle seriously be ause of all the double standards then yes, it is exactly fun and games. When I'm see adult consistency then I'll take people serious. Both sides of this whole thing are hypocrites and apply the standards selectively.

@SukiSue yeah, when I can't take either side of the aisle seriously because of all the double standards then yes, it is exactly fun and games. When I see adult consistency then I'll take people serious. Both sides of this whole thing are hypocrites and apply the standards selectively.

@SukiSue I'm speaking in general, not saying u are that way

@SukiSue thank u ma'am ♥️

@jorj I don't have to be careful sir . I give exactly two rats ass about my political correctness . It is what it is , u can say it w five words or w one , I don't give a damn .

@Pralina1 nice. I would like to see everyone with that attitude. Political correctness is stupidity.

We certainly don't know but I'm willing to wager that Jimmy Carter never cheated. Except in his heart perhaps.

@jorj @Pralina1 Manners and respect, however, are not.

11

A slightly different perspective, but damning nonetheless. Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that none of the allegations brought against Kavanaugh by Dr. Ford are true. This is not my thinking on that subject, but just for argument.

The other perspective: Before this process began he has advocated for removing the POTUS from being subject to the law as any ordinary citizen is. That, in itself, is highly disturbing. During this process he has shown extreme partisan bent. He has exposed himself as one with an explosive demeanor. He has displayed a degree of intolerance and prejudice. He has shown us that he is not afraid to lie when it suits him. Now, the question is, even if all the allegations brought by all the women were totally false, would he still be qualified to sit as a justice in the highest court in the land?

If you say, "Yes," then you do not have the slightest idea of what jurisprudence standards we, as a nation, employ in our legal system.

Summing up, I happen to be moved to believe most of these women without question and a couple of them with only a minor amount of reservation. Having watched the hearings more than once and being a person with considerable experience observing people in tense situations, I wouldn't want him sitting on the SCOTUS, and I would have some reservations about having him on the bench anywhere.

Hear, hear.

I guess i'll chime in by saying both political parties and the government are run by humans...and we all know what people are capable of with power... if you think the Dems somehow are the owners of morality and nobility you my friend are in fantasy land... wife beating, women groping ,raping, drunkenness, two faced sons of bitches belongs to humanity not just them damn republicans.

@onan180 -- No one said that, my friend, so that came out of left field with a tailwind. We're talking about a judge cum justice of the SCOTUS here. They are supposed to be nonpartisan and even tempered, giving fair hearing to all sides and responding with carefully measured consideration. They should be of impeccable honesty, too. From the hearings and information that has come forth since the hearings, it appears Kavanaugh comes up short on all counts, and I'm not even allowing for the sexual impropriety allegations. Throw those into the mix, providing any of it is true, the only bench he should be sitting on would be in an all-male park somewhere.

Edit added note

Perusing you profile I now realize that the comment, "...Dems somehow are the owners of morality and nobility you my friend are in fantasy land...", is a standard, by rote comment of yours.

Lol just on a rant.....but everybody has an opinion, mine is his judicial record is the evidence , I think I like him.... personally the left has gone waaaaaayy goofy. ....looks like kavanaugh will be confirmed and maybe pubs maintain the house and senate. you can thank the dems behavior for that...soooo thank you : ) .@evidentialist

@onan180 -- I had little doubt and still have little doubt that Kavanaugh will be confirmed. I also respect his intellect and what I know of his record, he has done nothing on the bench that would disqualify him. For me, it was his performance during the hearings and the unnecessary lies he told that did it. The Republican desire to install Kavanaugh is, in spite of rhetoric to the contrary, purely political, and Trump's interest in it is self preservation in nature. The article I provide here lists 5 reasons, but there are in reality several more reasons for the rush to confirm. Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times. We are now in interesting times. By the way, an ex justice of the Supreme Court went into this process thinking that Kavanaugh should be confirmed but after the hearings, has changed his mind.

[truthout.org]

well when I watched him in the hearings I was tearing up with him spontaneously it seemed very real to me. I know I would be pissed if this had happened to me. what he said did not create and adverse opinion of him with me. it was omly after when I saw the democratic response to him did I hear he was angry and unbecoming a judge and I was like ....what ???? I didn't feel that way at all. what came out of his mouth was exactly what I thought.. as to him lying I don't know what you're talking about. as far as him not directly asking for an FBI investigation in the hearing I immediately comprehended. this is about delay how this whole thing is about delay. he was leaving it up to the committee to make that decision. the dems sat on this for a month and now crying because there is not enough time to investigate.. this is all political at this point. dems delay, take back senate and block nomination. repubs confirm him now before election. that's all this is and how this went down and the crackpot behavior from the people of the left just solidify's my position...the dems don't want to confirm Kavanaugh because the balance of the court is tipped conservative and they are afraid they won't be able to kill their babies anymore. I guess that's possible but I doubt it will be overturned so the ideological left can continue with their noble ideas toward the unborn and teach it to their children. you know the ones that actually make it through the gauntlet of pregnancy. so as far as i'm concerned, confirm kavanaugh and keep the senate and house hopefully. these protests and idealogical ideas on the left look like effing crackpots to me. I watch them on tv everyday harassing people while they are trying to eat. getting in peoples faces...I think whatever I got to go to work... this is nonsense.......@evidentialist

@evidentialist I also really don't care what this particular judge thinks. he is human like the rest of us and I am sure he has his unjudge like faults. I like to think for myself... thank you

@evidentialist amen!!!! Senator susan collins

7

I am a progressive. I found much of Bill Clinton's agenda much too conservative for my taste. I also believe that he was a sexual predator. However, at this moment, he is not in office, nor are there any plans for him to serve in the government. So this should not have any bearing on the present situation, OTHER than to point out that we need to nip sexual predators as early as possible before they get too high up in government.

7

he wasn't impeached for sexual assault. he was impeached for lying to congress when asked about a consensual affair that wasn't anyone's business but his, monica's and hillary's. trump's minions are afraid he will fall into a perjury trap. clinton actually did -- because he was asked about something that was never asked of (among other eligibles) jfk, ike and fdr. everyone knew that this was off-limits... until it wasn't. paula jones is another matter but he was not impeached over that.

g

I'm going to disagree with you about it not being our business. His affair with Monica happened in the West Wing during working hours. That meant he was having an affair while on the taxpayers dime. It most certainly was our business.

You do have a point about the change in standards between Clinton and other presidents who had affairs. The press just didn't report that kind of thing back then, so presidents could get away with a lot more.

@linxminx if he can have a lunch break on our dime and a golf game, he can have a blow job. we may not like that, but it's still none of our business -- and he wasn't impeached for wasting taxpayer money.

g

@genessa No, he was impeached for lying. I expect my President to behave in an ethical and professional manner while on the job. There is nothing unethical nor unprofessional about having lunch nor playing a round of golf. However, being a married man, and having a blow job from someone who is not your wife while in the Oval Office is an unethical and unprofessional offense.

We see it different. No big deal.

@linxminx no, not a huge deal. we can disagree civilly. not every can, alas! but we don't entirely disagree. i am not trying to give clinton a pass on his indiscretion. i am trying to say that congress had no call -- and certainly no pure motivation -- to impeach him over it.

g

@linxminx he can also take a poop at tax payers time . I guess the issue here is sex a physiological need and can a married man restrain him self if such need w other women . As far as know , regular joe seldomnly able to . I can't imagine how Mr president would be any better . I am not happy about , but I am not sleeping w either the joe type either the president type so I don't give a rats behind . Not my issue .

@linxminx I understand this .

@Pralina1 that is close to how i see it. i guess i can also point out that the impeachment and the "investigation" that led up to it wasted enough taxpayer money to raise the question of whether or not it was worth doing over that issue. i mean, lyndon johnson used to make senators talk to him from outside the bathroom door so they could hear him pooping. that was kind of gross. impeachable? and did it make him a bad president? as far as i know, dubya never had a blow job in the oval office. is lying to the american public about illegally invading a foreign country that never attacked us and didn't have weapons of mass destruction an impeachable offense? is it worse than a blow job -- and more to the point, is it more our business than a blow job?

g

@linxminx

“I expect my President to behave in an ethical and professional manner while on the job”

I can’t help laughing when I read that given the incumbent!

@genessa Sometimes I wonder if the news goes ape-shit over some issue to distract us from others. My first response to the whole explosion over Kavanaugh's confirmation is to wonder what is going on behind the scenes that our government doesn't want us to know about. Yea, there is a little conspiracy theorist inside me.

I've also had personal experience with the difference in perceived importance between issues. My previous employer retaliated against me when I reported workplace bullying and abuse. What they did to me was illegal. At they same time, they failed to support and protect female students who reported being sexually assaulted by male students at the school. This broke the law under Title IX. Both incidents, mine and the students, were legal violations by the same organization. I took legal action against the organization. So did the female students. I wanted my case to go to court, but my lawyer pressured and talked me into settling. I argued with him that I deserved justice and the public deserved to hear what the leaders of this organization had done. His argument back to me was all about how things are perceived in our society. He said to me, "You are right, both cases violated law, but rape can be sensationalized in the news, and therefore be a risk to the organization's image. People eat it up. Being given a hard time by your boss is just boring. People don't care, and no one will listen. Neither will the justice system." Sadly, I ended up settling.

We are a voyeuristic society, addicted to breaking news and sensationalized headlines. Those who run the news feed us stuff that keeps us glued to their station, feed, and broadcast. And what do we do? We respond accordingly. A long way of saying, I agree, we should be cognizant of all actions by our President, and not just some.

@OwlInASack I know!! Trump is not an example of professional nor ethical behavior.

@genessa I am not concerned about my ‘tax payer dime,’ it shows a lack of discipline...when having affairs or sexual encounters in ANY workplace! But, it seems shocking to have this happen... in the PEOPLE’S house! We expect at least professionalism, there of all places!

@genessa Having a blow-job is not unethical, even if you are married. Lying about it is.

@linxminx Trump will hopefully be a lesson in corruption, nepotism and what not to be one day soon.

@Gareth granted, gareth... but then so is asking about it when it's not in and of itself unethical and doesn't affect his performance as president. he should not have been gone after for that and asked. had he not been asked, there would have been no occasion to lie, and i am not excusing the lying but come on, impeachable for that? seriously? high crimes? not!

g

@Freedompath on the grand scale of things, i think going after him for that when traditionally we give presidents THAT much leeway and try to focus on the job done, not the blowjob done, is more unethical than either the sex of the lying (in answer to a question that should not have been asked). did anyone ask george h w bush that? oh wait, we don't know if HIS affair(s) was/were in the oval office. does that really matter more than, say, his son's attacking a sovereign nation under false pretenses? that's lying too, and if dubya didn't get a blow job, he sure delivered a snow job. cherrypicking what to impeach about is political and has nothing to do with ethics (or the people's house).

g

I was responding to linxminx but replied to the thread owner in error.

@genessa I believe the difference in this specific ‘sex’ story is this is a attempted sexual assault! This is not some encounter that went over the line! Or some guy, who really put the pressure on some gal, for sex! This is intended violence...for sex or power! And I know the difference, because I have been there! When I say there is sexual assault and there are men, who will try and aggressively try to have sex... it is not the same! A sexual assault has something to do with ‘bringing down the woman!’ At least that has been my experience and a man of this mindset should not sit in judgement of others! Your other points, I agree with. There are so many issues that are more important than sex! But at the same time ‘sexual assault,’ may be a symptom of a much deeper problem!

@genessa I like that you put that ‘g’ at the bottom of your post...I might have to borrow your idea!

@Freedompath lol but your initial is f! if you put g, people will wonder! of course that isn't always a bad thing.

g

@Freedompath that is of course a major difference. sadly it's not even our only objection to kavanaugh but holy crap it's a big one!

g

@genessa ha ha...glad you pointed that out...there is so much ‘f’ going on, I might need to rethink my idea!

@genessa right...

@Freedompath as long as your second initial isn't u....

oh my that reminds me of a good moment from the odd couple (the play and probably the movie, not the tv show, although it may have shown up there). oscar madison is upset with the little notes felix unger leaves around the house, which felix has signed with his initials: "fu."

g

6

I think Kavanaugh's demeanor during questioning should disqualify him

Yes but he is a clone of Trump and with that distasteful rhetoric is in fancy with this crowd. Women must come out and vote, WE as a nation need a female leadership, NO more white old men. Please. I do miss Obama greatly as he was perhaps one of the very best.

6

Your last paragraph nailed it and I believe every time I hear about Bill Clinton in this way today it's a dodge to avoid things about Kavanaugh or Bone Spurs himself. These allegations are all about power and those who seek, or are in power. Bill Clinton is no longer in that category. Discussing his history is avoiding current issues. Many forget that Trump was on tape as saying "you can go into their dressing rooms, grab 'em by the pussy, or do anything you want." Today he wants us all to think this was "fake news." It's the hypocrisy of double speak Republicons.

6

Right On the Money Duke.

6

Hear, hear! Bravo! Extremely well-written!

6

All.true. And then the larger issue of why women wait years to say anything.

Women do wait. When my ex and I were married we had an argument one day. I forget about what. In bed that night I rolled over at 3 AM and her voice came out of the darkness, "and another thing I don't understand . . . . . . . . "

This is a true story.

@DenoPenno I guess you know why she's an ex, then.

@Gareth Among other things she thought drama was communication.

5

You nailed it, Duke!
Bravo!

5

He was impeached because he lied about getting a blowjob. That was also consensual.

He has a number of other allegations. All it takes is for the people he supposedly assaulted to come forward and make a case. A lot did, he denied (as do most) and it is now history.

So... Here you go... Your own words... "So, until someone brings charges against Bill Clinton for sexual assault, please shut the fuck up about him."

I don't condone what he did. He strikes me more as a charmer who used his power to harass women. To put pressure on them. Allegations of rape were brought forward but the case never went anywhere.

Clinton was inappropriate work place behavior! Not criminal!

@Freedompath It was still harassment and wrong no matter how you look at it. But I would vote for Bill again in a heart beat!

@RiverRick harassed but not criminal! A agree completely inappropriate!

5

I believe (it's been awhile) the women in the Clinton case came forward with allegations that they had a relationship/affair with Clinton. I don't believe he was ever accused of sexual assault. There is a difference. Clinton had affairs with other women, including Monica Lewinsky, and did not forcibly rape anyone, or threaten a women with rape. I'm not trying to excuse Clinton's actions, just point out the offenses are different under the law.

That said, you have a point. It's like their all kindergarten-age children on the playground yelling, "I'm telling on you!"

Last year it was the senate hearing of Mark Zuckerberg. This year it's the Kavanaugh confirmation. How many ways can our government go on TV and embarrass our nation with their behavior??

P.S. Before someone criticizes me about our government questioning Facebook's behavior, I agree they should have questioned it, but the senate hearing also showed how little they knew of technology. It was embarrassing.

@LouElmo Against who?

@LouElmo You are right. I forgot all about Juanita Broaddrick. Had not heard about the others nor the the exposing with Paula Jones.

@LouElmo good citations. Bill C was and I suspect is an absolute wanker: treated women appallingly. Never mind his dodgy and illegal war mongering.

It’s a critical point and difference between right and left: show me a reasonable accusation against someone from the left and I’ll want the person suspended and investigated till it’s resolved.

Not so much for those on the poltical right it seems.

@OwlInASack When Clinton was in the White House, I taught high school. The school won 3 national awards during the same year. Our principal got to go to the White House to receive the awards. She was at a reception when Clinton and Gore came into the room and began to circulate, meet and greet. Her description of these men, "They were the most charismatic men I've ever met. Charm ooozed from them. The room became theirs from the moment they walked in. The women were swooning around them." Charm, charisma, plus power can result in predatory behavior. Clinton objectifies women. It was charm, disarm, take advantage.

@LouElmo if Ken Star, had not had a BIG, part in her allegations,. I would have found her more creditable. I could not believe her rape, but she very well could have been pressured!

@Freedompath by that logic why do people say we have to believe any woman who accuses? U didnt believe her just like people don't believe Ford. The selectiveness of both sides of who to believe is just hyocrisy in a nut shell. Any accusation against the other side is to be believed without question by most people but when it's a guy they like, all of sudden, that changes and they become a hypocrite. That's why I don't believe any of them until proof is shown.

@Freedompath and I don't mean that as a personal thing against u. It's common all across the board.

@linxminx yeah - I had a mate studying at Oxford (I’m a Brit) and he met Bill C when he visited: my mate said he had the most ‘presence’ on entering a room of anyone he’s ever met.

Strangely I’ve met one like that too - also somewhat controversial - the President of Rwanda, Paul Kagame: everyone knew when he’d come into a room too.

@jorj I have lots and I mean lots of personal experience that I am drawing from, there are certain characteristics that some men share without even knowing it concerning their sexual behavior! And some they clearly want a female to know. And, I have been put in all their cross hairs! Plus, I have made it my business to study every person’s behavior that has crossed my path! I don’t claim to be an expert, but I can assure you that I can spot a predator! Not to mention the stories I have from friends and relatives! I studied alcoholism for some 30 years because I kept marrying them! I have friends who are recovering alcoholics! So I know a lot about sexual behavior, in men and about alcoholics! The Kavanaugh and Ford stories are easy for me to study. They are very specific and other stories from people not known to each other give clues! If you can’t agree, then you can’t agree!

@jorj nothing is ever ‘common across the board,’ with human behavior! There are only clues!

@linxminx clinton may (or may not) objectify women -- being charming in and of itself is not an objectification of women! -- but he doesn't advocate legislating the objectification of women, or the adjudication of it. there are those who do. i can think of someone in the white house who does, and he isn't even charming! in fact he has anti-charm.

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@genessa exactly! Let's not forget about the pussy grabber if we think it's okay to bring up everybody who is a predator! Kavanaugh should have been dismissed because of his explosive temper.

@SukiSue even before that -- he should be dismissed because he forwarded email with stolen information (and the subject line SAID so, so it's not as if he forwarded it innocence) and then lied about it in the hearings for his current position. the explosive temper alone would be a reason to dismiss; the lying in the previous hearings alone also would be.

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@SukiSue no one ever forgets to bring up Trump's accusations all over the net. That's the whole point of why people reference Bill Clinton. He was forgiven and re-elected. But now Trump is different, nothing found to have him prosecuted as far as rape goes, aying hookers maybe, but not assault. I don't believe any of these accusations myself for Clinton, Trump, or any other rich and powerful men until prosecution is brought. I keep it consistent.

@Freedompath i understand everything u are saying when it comes to the everyday assaults and accusations, but when it is made political I take a whole different standard. Esp thiry years later.

@jorj this person is going to stand in judgement on the most important court in the land! Is his judgement sound? I would say not, from that triad that he gave us, in the chamber of Congress! He showed little respect for members of Congress...he ‘smart mouth,’ many of them! This is not emotional maturity! Granted he is under pressure, but he is the one who wanted this job..,surely he had a good idea what he was in for...after all he is a judge! Exposure of any kind is never pretty, but this man will sit in judgement against issues in this country for maybe 40 years! We need to know all about him...after all this country belongs to the people, and not any one party!

@Freedompath I have little respect for members of Congress so good, let him rip them a new asshole. He ran on getting rid of corruption and all the members of Congress are corrupt taking corrupt money except Bernie. They deserve everything he says to those hypocrite criminals.

@jorj ‘two wrongs don’t make a right!’ And, never will! Don’t allow your anger to cloud your judgement!

@Freedompath lmao, I'm not angry, u actually are mind reading when u told me not to.

@jorj no I am judging ‘anger,’ from your words.,.most people are showing angry when they speak with ‘let him rip them a new asshole’...

@Freedompath that is just a common expression where I'm from.

@jorj never heard it before and remember I am from Ga out in the country! But, I would never think the expression meant something uplifting...it has to be a negative! And usually negative expressions come out of anger! At least, that is how I use them!

@Freedompath its used in place of owning someone Iike with internet lingo or putting someone in their place for the most part. I can see how it sounds negative tho.

@jorj and don’t looked to me for all ‘truth’ I am only one person, trying to relay things that I have learned...that has given me a better understanding and grip on my life! Some things you may use and others want fit... but everyone has something that we can learn from them. The main thing is to allow yourself to learn... it will benefit you, even into old age, which I know that may not be something that you think about now! But, if you wait until you are old to see how learning helps your life...then it will be too late! Lol

@Freedompath @jorj Just thought I would weigh in to the conversation. There are two sides to this issue as with all issues. Last night Senator Flake and Senator Coons were on 60 Minutes, and expressed dismay and concern at Kavanugh's temper shown during his testimony. So we are not the only ones who are questioning his behavior. This week-long investigation is an attempt at compromise. An investigation in a week? Meh...at least they called for one. For myself, I am concerned in having Kavanaugh placed on the highest court. It is a lifelong appointment. I have a step-brother who is a district court judge, and has been for 25 years. He has to be elected, so not quite the same, however, I've seen first hand the power that comes with being a judge. While judges can be tried for crimes, this almost never happens. I would say judges in our country are some of the most powerful individuals. Judges do not even have to rule with the law. Whatever they say goes. The only time I have ever taken legal action in my life was against my former employer for retaliating against me, which is against the law. I wanted to go to court, of course my lawyer wanted to settle, and his argument was that no judge is going to "side" with me. I argued, the law is on my side, the judge has to rule in my favor. He said just because there is a law, doesn't mean the judge will side with you. He told me, "Most likely the judge will say, Yea, it's true, the law was broken, but your not suffering because of it, so I will not rule in your favor." Or, even worse, the judge would rule in favor of my former employer because I "wasted their time and the courts time." Kavanaugh's character is in question. Whether this specific incident happened or not, I question his character, and don't think he should be appointed.

@linxminx I completely agree! I have a few traffic violations and went before a judge, I was surprised...I thought it was a process to find the truth, but I know better now! I even sent a letter to the state and complained. Their response was ‘they can do nothing,’ I would have to appeal! But, now I do see where i will compain to next time, I will send it to the bar! I agree, this man should never, at least by what we know now...sit on the Court! I question that he is a judge...he, maybe could go back to lawyering!? Sitting in judgement of others, no way!

@jorj I wanted to make one last comment, after reviewing all of our post. It appears to me that you are really trying to get to the bottom of this issue...even struggling. Struggling is good...on difficult issues, we all struggle. But, if figuring out something was simple our brains would never expand and we would not gain much knowledge. Just try and relax as much as you can, even though you may feel extremely frustrated, the more calm we can be the easier it will be to figure something out. It allows information to flow more freely. Don’t worry that you will be overtaken by outseide forces or someone else. You just need to stay alert, and calm...not zoned out! That wouldn’t help. The more this is practiced, the easier it will get! But, struggling is necessary for complex ideas, just know that and keep working! You will find that it pays off, in the end. And, telling others thank you when they have helped you ‘clear up’ something, is good for you and for them. It lets others know that they are making their ideas clear and understandable. I hope this helps.

@Freedompath I always strive for truth but I just don't see me struggling, I see others struggling. I was a democrat until they decided my existence don't matter. My struggle was seeing that and accepting it. I'm sitting pretty good in my beliefs today f I say so myself.

@jorj your existence matters, has always mattered. When your ideas are challenged...that is just a subject matter, not a challenge to you as a person. I had a hard time learning this myself and being on this site has helped me a lot...I stopped tangling up my ‘personhood’ with the discussions about ideas! I may have opinions, but I am more than my opinions and so is everyone else! And now I can pretty much stay focused on my opinion about what we are talking about at the moment! I am not defending ‘my person’ (even if only in my own mind), I defend my idea and how I arrived at my opinion. It was hard when I first got here, but this site has helped me be better at expressing my ideas from my particular personality! Every one has one!

@jorj I keep having this thought as I am posting with you. It is always with me but maybe you will find it useful. I don’t ride motorcycles, but I have had the experience a few times in my life time and I knew lots of people who did and they took it very serious. And, one of the things that I heard from the really serious riders, was...’I always ride with people who are more expert than me.’ I put that to use, in my own life...I respect all people, but...’I only roll with people that are more expert (in life) than me!’ And it does not depend necessarily on how much education they might have gotten! I have no interest in lowering myself to the level of some people, there is just to much at risk!

@Freedompath I never have bought in to the expert in a field thing. Even experts are proven wrong all the time. I only worry about the issue at hand and will listen to an "expert" (which is subjective, experts disagree with other experts) but ultimately it comes down to my interpretation of the facts.

@jorj when I say ‘expert,’ I mean knowledgeable! No one knows everything, even experts, I know that! But, I can assure you that there are people in this world who know more than you ot I...or even both of us together! Even a fool, sometimes reveals something worth while and useful! It appears to me that you aren’t sure who to trust, so you trust..,no one! If you pay careful attention to what is being reported and watch for more information that will be revealed on any issue, you will see that matter in the best light that you can AT that TIME! Truth is always evolving as more and more information becomes available on ANY matter! Life evolves, everything is changing as we speak! Today I spoke with a friend and told him, that I have a volunteer avocado tree come up in my compost pile, where I like to grow stuff! And, he told me that he heard that you need to 2 avocado trees to get fruit! I did not know that...so now I will start to ask other people if this is true, as I want to grow avocado trees! This is how life works, everyday you find out you don’t have all the information you need for something! After I find out about how many trees I need...then I will need to know about how to enrich my soil! I have all kinds of things going on here, just like that!
I will need to stop here.,.i have many things to get done! I have worked very hard trying to help you...,this is a lot of work! I must get all my ideas clear in my own mind and make sure I don’t relay erroneous information! Plus, I must try and figure out where you are (in your understanding) and present my ideas to you in a way, that hopefully, you can understand! Now, if you say that I am wasting my time, it would be appreciated if you said so! Because, if my ideas seem to be easy for me, to bring out of my knowledge and experience...you would be wrong! This has been WORK!

@Freedompat I can agree with that as well. I'll !isten to anyone about anything and if they offer anything relevant I'll adjust for it. So far I don't get any info to contradict me on this issue.

@jorj I agree with you...I have not seen proof that Kavanaugh assaulted Dr Ford, but I can tell you what I do know surrounding sexual assaults, rape and sexual abuse. I was sexually assaulted in 8th grade by a rich kid in the 10th grade. I have been sexually abused and raped. My mother was molested, assaulted and raped. My sister was molested, assaulted and raped! These were all at different times! My children’s other grandmother was sexually assaulted! Most of my female friends, have been sexually abused or assaulted or raped! One, was raped with a gun to her head, in high school! One of my daughters was molested as well as one of my sons! My neice was molested, my nephew was molested. A male friend was molested. My neighbor here, who is retired from the Air Force as a nurse, told me that she was raped so many times, she has lost count and she was also molested as a child! I heard their stories and there are common threads in all of them. No, I have no absolute proof that Kavanaugh is guilty, but Dr Ford’s story has the ring of truth to it. Ask your own mother, grandmother sister, etc and see if they too...have a story to tell.

@ThFreedompath I sympathize wirh each and every one of u. I only can hope all the perpetrators are dealt with and handed justice. I also grew up living with my grandmother and a great uncle was in the home that was a child molester. He was convicted on paper for it so I can understand every thing victims go thru. I still hold my position because once I pull my own personal emotions and experience out and look at cold hard facts I see a whole different story as far as a our society goes. Things need addressed seriously but this stuff goin on now is not an everyday case. The timing is political in nature and because of how I see both sides of the aisle play this issue I see nothing but double standards and hypocrisy from both sides. I keep all of my biases and prejudice in check as much as possible and see this game objectively.

@jorj keep in mind that you are viewing all of this Political stuff from a distance!

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He was put through a trial for the Monica Lewinsky allegations.

And do you know who penned those sexually explicit questions?

Do you care to guess?

Tantrum boy screamer Brett.

Not to mention that Al Franken was thrown out for far less.

And he should run again.

He would get re-elected easily I bet.

I agree with you!

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Strange...I don't recall any allegations of sexual assault against Bill Clinton. He was unfaithful multiple times and then lied about it under oath. Kavanot held a young woman down against her will and silenced her cries for help. A terrifying and criminal act.

This is true...and Paula Jones, to name just one, made a Nice living off of her story....her story was kind of weird, as there was No force, No drugs, and I personally never met anyone that didn't know that going to someone's hotel room was for sex, period........consensual sex between adults is NONE of my business, nor anyone else's. Where Clinton screwed up was Lying to Congress about it. Nowadays he would be fine, as Congress clearly accepts being lied to every single day?

@Stevil I do not believe is was under some kind of ‘fear!’

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It's a hard one re public figures. Don't get me wrong, rape is rape, assault is assault but do we want tee totaling Mormons running things?
I think the solution in the current case is don't make these positions for life. The knowledge that, once selected, they are untouchable can't be good.
Regardless of guilt or innocence, Kavanaugh's performance under questioning should be enough to disqualify him. Don't need hot head judges

TA! Petulant crybabies deciding what I can or cannot do ? No thanks!

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I take it as more the argument by three year olds of "But Johnny did it too!" Didn't work then, shouldn't work now. Tell you what: the next time you, say, get pulled over for speeding, tell the officer "But Charles Manson killed all those people!" and see how well that works.

...right on!!!

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Sexual assault should definitely disqualify Kavanaugh from being on the SCOTUS. His demeanor during that hearing should disqualify him too. He was angry, a cry baby, and very partisan in blaming the Clintons (who I'm no fan of and have their own problems) along with other Democrats and the left and the media. Is Kavanaugh's behavior indicative of someone we want serving on the SCOTUS, no matter what his political affiliation? You can be angry and feel all those things, but airing them in a formal setting shows his character. He doesn't seem like he would be a non-partisan judge. Nobody is completely non-partisan, but he seems that he would be further on the sliding scale. He definitely seems more likely to bring religion and conservative views into his judgments instead of just "interpreting" already established laws and Supreme Court precedence. He's already aired his opinions on a few issues with a religious slant on them.

That hearing was a sham. There was obvious partisanship going on with both sides. At least the Democrats had the opinion that a full investigation should be had before any vote. Almost all the Republicans want him confirmed without any investigation. Flake at least suspended the vote with his no vote after two activists pressured him into at least having an investigation take place. If Kavanaugh is guilty of a crime or lying, then his character is severely lacking for the position in which he was nominated. This might be less about the sexual assault allegations and more about side issues that show his lack of character. That doesn't seem to matter much with the majority Republican senators.

Also, what was with that letter from Mark Judge saying he's depressed and doesn't want to publicly speak or even be investigated anyway? Would the Senate or FBI afford you and I the same consideration? Can I just tell them I don't want to be involved in any investigation if i was privy to a crime or a witness in a supposed crime, etc?

And, the lack of respect for Congress people...was way ‘below the line!’ He a judge...of all people...could not get control of himself with them! He showed a blatant superiority!

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Kavanaugh is definitely going to get much more scrutiny as a possible Supreme Court justice. That makes a lot of sense but the world has had an eye opening experience with the Me Too movement. If that case was brought up now it would be treated very differently. It should be remembered that when Hillary was accused of "loosing" a large number of emails her popularity dropped significantly and that was a substantial reason for her loosing the election. Every time Trump was caught in a lie distorting information to support his pet causes (very frequently) or caught making blatant racist remarks his popularity skyrocketed. Democrats like Al Franken immediately stepped down when it appeared they had crossed the line. Republicans normally take the position that the women are all liars. There is a difference! The take away is the Republicans don't care about integrity or racial equality and Democrats find it very important. That being said the Democrats dropped the ball in the Bill Clinton case about as bad as the Republicans did by ignoring Anita Hill's accusations against Clarance Thomas' during his election to the Supreme Court. Those were all mistakes, many of us are sorry for them but the important thing now is to recognize the problem and move forward with greater conviction and integrity.

OCJoe Level 6 Sep 30, 2018

I agree with you.

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I think it is very important that Kavanagh be investigated about these allegations since he will be taking a lifetime seat on the Supreme Court and he has made remarks about a certain ruling that would be reversed. Now since I'm pretty sure that he is referring to Row v Wade, women's rights are in serious jeopardy. Someone who is a rapist or who has committed sexual assault should not be permitted to rule on women's rights. It is clear what the whole purpose of his appointment has been and my biggest fear is that the Republicans will choose to side, once again, with party over country and carry through with the appointment of Kavanagh to the United States Supreme Court regardless of what he has been accused of. They did it with Roy Moore and its obvious they will do it for Kavanagh. I fear that this investigation is just a show for the people and will not be allowed to perform the necessary, unbiased investigation that needs to be done. I fear that there has already been too much damage to our democratic ways to be able to go back to the way things were before trump. Remember, it was the Republicans that refused to give Obama's nominee a hearing, something totally unprecedented. There have been other unprecedented moves by the Republicans that have put our democracy in serious jeopardy. I certainly hope a full investigation is performed and the full truth of just how horrible a choice Kavanagh is becomes apparent, but I won't hold my breath.

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I just find it funny that Juanita told how Hillary attacked her but the left ignored all that and still love her to this day. The left is making it just about politics just as much as the right.

jorj Level 8 Sep 30, 2018

@jorj -- Odd. I don't get that from any of the liberals and left-leaners I know. How have you come to this conclusion and what evidence, other than anecdotal, do you have to support the claim?

@evidentialist the fact that the left don't crucify the democrat party politicians that have been accused like they do repub party politicians that have been accused. Some individual people are consistent but the media and the people in power are obviously doing this stuff along party lines. Even people on this post have said they would vote for Bill Clinton again even tho all the accusations have happened to him but just ask about Trump's accusations and watch them change tune real quick. Can u really not see this stuff or do u just not want to see it?

Just to name a few other democrat guys that have been accused of things against women, Keith Ellison (silence), Ted Kennedy (silence), Al Franken (although he resigned like he should a post on this thread says he should run again and they would vote for him), and those are just off the top of my head. If u want me to research names and give u more I can tho.

@jorj -- "Can u really not see this stuff or do u just not want to see it?"

Oh, I see it well enough, but I also know it is not true overall. It is best not to paint miniature portraits with a broom. One of the major problems creating the division in the country is so many artists with brooms on all sides. The way to break that chain is to stop adding more links to it. To begin a genuine dialogue like mature adults instead of so many children throwing tantrums.

Now, as for allegations, there is only one way to determine the validity of them and that is through thorough investigation. Your unnecessary attack on Al Franken is duly noted and your use of 'silence' is likewise registered. Just remember this, it doesn't make any difference who is accused and 'silence' is hardly a word to describe the response to those folks you mentioned. There was a good deal of noise from all sides generated. So far, the only one to openly and immediately proffer an apology both to the accuser and his constituency as well as step down voluntarily was the same fellow you saw fit to play stupid with his name.

@evidentialist my unnecessary attack on Franken....LMAO. My statement, nowhere did I attack him, was used as an examp!e of the double standard when people still thinkhe should run again. It's obvious what u are doing here. A guy resigns for his actions which insinuates guilt but lefties still would vote for him and u ignore that. I got my answer now, u don't want to see it. Good day.

@jorj -- Wow. Stuff just flies right by you. I wouldn't vote for Franken, either. The point was that of all of them, including our current crop, he presented himself with the greatest dignity/honesty and did not deserve the Franken(stein) shot, which was an obvious attack gesture.

@evidentialist that was an auto correct mistake that I removed. I do apologize for technology making things up for me.

@jorj -- You are therefor forgiven based on 'technical' grounds. 😛

@evidentialist i do 100% agree with u about the Frankenstein. I don't do that stuff just like I don't use Trumptard, tRump, snowflake, libtard or any of that kind of foolish stuff.

I don’t recognise that in anyone on the left that I know. Are you sure you’re not just making that up to support your prejudices?

@OwlInASack I'm as sure it's not my prejudices just as much as u can be sure u aren't seeing it because of yours. I do see a double standard with both sides of this argument. I'm not being biased at all toward one side, just looking at things objectively.

@OwlInASack I've seen lefties shrug off Clintons accusations because he is powerful and charming and whether or not me or u fjnd Trump charming, there are women who see him in the same light.

@jorj sure. But it’s really not typical. You’re committing the classic middle ground fallacy. They just aren’t equal or close.

The left is typically completely riven and split over such issues as they seek to find justice. The right not so much.

@OwlInASack I see the split being because half of the left actually agree with me and they have quit even getting involved. I went out for Bernie but not Hillary. That is your split. Bernie, no corporate money and for everyone. Don't agree with the him completely but he included the needs of middle America. Hillary hid behind this whole SJW issue with the white male attacks and lost middle America as she campaigned for moderate repubs in coastal cities. It's time to get away from all the divisive issues and make a fair consistent standard on the left that includes everyone's needs.

@OwlInASack and I can't be making a middle ground fallicy when both sides are the same. I'm keeping consistency with my principles therefore I have to admit the reality that both sides are the same. That's why 50% of people won't vote. Those people see exactly what I see.

@jorj

“I can't be making a middle ground fallicy when both sides are the same”

That’s hilarious! That is the middle ground fallacy defined.

So my point - which I tried to explain - was that they really aren’t the same at all, in substance or otherwise. It is a well documented ploy of the right to persuade people that they are. Across the world when people are more disillusioned with politics as a whole, the right does better. It’s a cynical ploy but it’s effective.

“I'm keeping consistency with my principles therefore I have to admit the reality that both sides are the same”

In what way are they the same? After all - I’ve explained how they aren’t when it comes to the Clinton issue you raised. Most lefties would happily see one of their own convicted where appropriate. Your reference to some who wouldn’t doesn’t change the large majority. And what principles are these???

“That's why 50% of people won't vote. Those people see exactly what I see”

That’s an appeal to authority: I agree that many people have been convinced of this lie. Doesn’t mean they are right though. Simple and si passionate investigation would show them so.

@OwlInASack when both parties have the same donors, both pushes their own brand of sexism and racism, and they both push corporate welfare then yes, they are the same. Just because u accept one sides sexism and racism as being ok just reveals your own prejudices. Maybe u should reevaluate your own side and compare the facts of public records. I know they talk differently but they always come together when it's time to pass policy.

Keep on digging for a way to nullify my position any way u see fit. Both parties hurt me and what I stand for and because I think all people except the wealthiest face the same issues everyday. Some have it worse in one are while others have it worse in another. Overall tho, everyone in America is living in privilege in some ways and feeling oppression in others. Until that can be seen by either side we will continue to lose.

My principles are liberal working class principles that believes in euality and an equal voice for everyone. Once u see groups pushing agendas that just highlight their problems and focus on tearing the other groups down instead of realizing the problems they face as well, the only outcome is division.

I can agree all day to the violence and attrocoties of men but I can also see the violence and attrocoties of females as well. We are all humans and we are all capable of the same things. Women have far more privileges than they will ever admit while they attack men for being privileged. It's all a circus show to keep a fight going so that corporate rule is never questioned by a unified group.

@jorj “Just because u accept one sides sexism and racism as being ok just reveals your own prejudices”

This isn’t a discussion any more. We’re done

@jorj if the election was between Bill & Donald Trump, I'd have no problem voting for Bill.

@ronnie40356 I would do a write in vote if there isn't a third party on the ticket if it was between those two. The biggest irony in this whole discussion is that people overlook that Bill and Donald have been friends for decades. Birds of a feather flock together. They were so close they attended the wedding and were happy and smiling together.

@OwlInASack thanks dropping in then. Take care. Look forward to more discussions with ya.

@jorj The good old days, in many ways..

@ronnie40356 up until Trump beat Hillary they were still friends so not the old days all that much.

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Bill Clinton could not be elected today. It was a different era and there was a different standard. His affairs were considered consensual by his supporters absent proof they were not, and the whole Paula Jones thing seemed like a partisan hit job at the time even in 1994 and the issue with the whole Whitewater affair was that it was so obviously a nothingburger being pushed by Scaife and others whose hatred of the Clintons appeared to be very personal that it made it relatively easy to discount the entire Starr investigation's findings. I have come to believe that at least one of these women is credible. I voted for Bill Clinton knowing he was a hound and an adulterer, but I did not think he was also a rapist, for sure. Being aware that there were GREAT Presidents who cheated on their wives, I did not consider that aspect of Bill Clinton, especially since he was not a moralizer on social issues or holier than thou, to be disqualifying. I still do not consider adultery disqualifying. That's a matter between the spouses. I am glad that we are holding men to a higher standard of sexual conduct now, and starting to listen to victims more. We clearly have a long way to go, but I think the MeToo# movement is a net positive for our culture.

And frankly, Kavenaugh's lying to the Committee and his non-judicial demeanor is disqualifying on its own account, regardless of the truth or non-truth of Ford's personal experience of him. When he said what he said to Sen. Klobuchar, that pretty much showed the person he is.

Consensual sex between adults is none of anybody's business, except i suppose spouses.
But lying to Congress, or anybody, under oath? Whole different thing!
The only difference is, Congress in the Clinton era would not tolerate being lied to/disrespected. Now apparently they crave it!

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Prosecute them all. End the special privileges of the rich, powerful, and politically connected. Every allegation against everyone should be investigated, and if proven true, the book should be thrown at them. However, if the allegations are proven false (without question), accusers should receive the same punishment the accused would have received. Time to show everyone that this kind of thing is not in any way acceptable or taken lightly in any way.

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Yup. They're women who suffered/suffer and not political pawns.

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There has never been any allegation against Clinton about forced sexual contact. Kavenaugh is accused of forced sexual contact. Clinton is definitely a womanizer as is Trump. Trump is a bully, I do not believe Clinton was or is a bully.

Kavenaugh has definitely shown he lacks a judical temperment.I know of no one who would hire someone who cried in an interview and talked about how much they liked beer. Yet the Republicans in Congress have given this sick man a job for life.

Regarding your admonition that we should not complain about Kavenaugh, you have no right to tell anyone what they can or cannot say in this forum. Neither do I.

Please accept my apology. I reread your post more carefully.

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Their is NO evidence connecting Kavanaugh to ANYTHING. end of story. the admitted accuser is a admitted party animal and all of the people around her say she was.Without documented evidence and where her money came from to do what she did ? I don't believe a fucking word she says.

@JesseThompson how bout the people who got rid of the 40 million since 1973 who would be here today ? AMEN !!! SENATOR SUSAN COLLINS SPEACH.....BAM !

@JesseThompson well I guess first of all war has been since the beginning of man not judge kavanaugh and it will be long after he is gone. if you're waiting for utopia to have children you're in fantasy land , our ancestors from long long ago had it a hell of a lot worse than we do now and they managed to give birth and love their children, otherwise you wouldn't be here. you benefited from their "choice." it's funny that those who benefited from others choices choose to deny the same benefit that was given to them...

@JesseThompson I never chose war. you're being silly. you can't control the world. sometimes war chooses you. when rape, child molestation, abuse, jealousy, stealing, killing your parents, killing your children killing for money, killing for fun, lying etc.etc.etc stops in our own homes, then we can have a discussion about ending war between countries. the reason the past keeps repeating itself is because those who have learned the lessons are dead !

Unsure of what your point is...from the make love not war sixties revolution to the courts leaning left in decisions for decades, roe v wade, to the overwhelming left leaning news of cnn, cbs, nbc, abc and left leaning professors of college academia teaching our children so called enlightened ideology. the rise in science as the new religion and the greate medicine peddled to the public where side effects are worse than the actual problem. why is this going on in south Dakota ?...Judge Kavanaugh ?@JesseThompson

That is why we needed a full investigation. But nothing like that happened and then the right wingers say I did not believe her.
Let me ask you this, Do you believe Trump tells the truth. Let us see if you answer this.

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