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I'm hoping that people here are more open minded than self described atheists.
after lurking & occasionally posting at an atheist site for a few months i found that most of them were engaging in group-think on almost every subject that came up. they didn't want any dissenters on any subject they all agreed on.
i don't believe in a personal god or an after life. the only thing i'm certain of is that nothing is certain.

By callmedubious
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50 comments

10

What I've noticed about almost all "self-described" atheists (as opposed to people the religious identify as atheists which is pretty much anyone who disagrees with their faith) is that they are open-minded but demand credible evidence to believe in things. Faith is not enough. Discovering some fanciful idea or philosophy that comforts our psyche but has no basis in demonstrable fact is not enough for us to "believe" in it or follow it. That is a trait I admire.

And I've seen no evidence of group think on this site. Widely varied thoughts, opinions, ideas, arguments. Almost always engaged respectfully. I don't think it is too strong a statement to say I love this community for that.

Lastly, you are certain of nothing except uncertainty? A rhetorical device, at best. I bet you are certain you need air and water and food to survive. Certain you will die some day. Certain that the rain falling from a storm is not "magic sky water" but is readily explained by meteorology. So many things are certain. And so many things are not.

Just a guess here, but are you just uncomfortable engaging with people who are skeptical of your beliefs or who question your ideas?

Seeker3CO Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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I love u man !

So much this! (Oh shit, now we're engaging in group think!)

oh'you're so brilliant. i don't need air to survive, i need oxygen. i don't need the CO2 that is in air or other gases such as nitrogen which comprises 87% of air. i don't need neon, nor krpton, nor methane.

@callmedubious And how are you obtaining that oxygen? Not thought air? Fascinating. Are you certain you need oxygen?

Edited

@callmedubious aren't you curious to find out how long you would survive breathing PURE oxygen? Are you certain that is all you need from the air you breathe?

And thanks for the compliment about my brilliance! Makes my day.

9

Death? Taxes? The dog will throw up on the bed right after you put on clean sheets? Drink a lot of beer, get fat? WTH are you babbling about, "nothing is certain"?

AnneWimsey Level 8 Oct 11, 2018
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You have a delightful way of pulling people up on their logical fallacies.

@irascible Thank you! I try!

i drink a considerable amount of IPA craft beer & am male 5ft 9in, 150 lbs.

@callmedubious Well, good for you...too much alcohol does indeed make you skinny...Hank Williams Sr, anyone?

@AnneWimsey you'll never see a skinny beer drinker.
when i was in my late 20s i drank a lot of beer. i noticed i was 30lbs overweight & changed to rye & water, also cut back on starches. lost 30 lbs in 1 yr.
i now drink a fair amount of craft beer but also golf 4 or 5 times/wk & don't have a big appetite.

8

There's a whiff of persecution complex in this thread. Unfounded assumptions, eg group-think and the rest. I'd expect a bit of rough and tumble with any group of free thinkers. You know the old saying about heat and kitchens and staying out of them. Well, this kitchen is warmly comfortable in my view. Anyway, my focus is as it has always been: on religion and fighting it.

David1955 Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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i fight BS/lies in all forms/shapes, not just religion.

7

Of course you're welcome to share any opinions you have but if the entire group thinks your opinions lack merit, the most logical explanation is that it's because they do. (When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.) Blaming group-think for everyone disagreeing with you seems like a dip into grandiose/paranoid/narcissistic territory. I'm not saying that's what you are but that's how that statement is reading to me. It's fine to disagree with everyone but I wouldn't discount all their opinions as "group-think".

klang72 Level 5 Oct 11, 2018
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on this 'atheists' forum i'm referring to these people are all convinced that every report on global warming is 100% true & any reports that raise even the slightest amount of doubt are from what they consider 'trolls'. i pointed out several times that global warming has become an industry that many 'scientist' have built lucrative careers on. they depend on money for 'research' from govts which look at global warming as a tax grab.
many of the global warming predictions have turned out to be ridiculous e.g a UN scientist predicted in 1989 that if drastic steps weren't taken to reduce CO2 emissions immediately then coastal cities around the world would be flooded by 2020. how's that 1 working out?
i don't doubt that many of you here are a bunch of brainwashed individuals who also find your way into the comfortable cocoon of group-think.

@callmedubious Ok, so what is your claim here? That one scientist royally messed up? Or that climate change isn't real? Or something else entirely?

Edited

@callmedubious I'm sure everyone in your last group pointed out to you that despite all the money, influence and power that scientists have, the other side comprises of most manufacturing businesses and the oil companies so that argument isn't super compelling.

@callmedubious Climate change is real, ok? Perhaps some of the most drastic predictions haven’t come true, but we are still looking at substantial sea level rises down the line. It’s hard to quantify, but from what I hear 3 degrees C is where we are heading.

@Denker there is a report from a scientist in australia who did the computer modelling that was used for temp predictions. he later discovered an error that changes the predictions down considerably.
i used to post reports like these but will no longer do it.
if anyone has only looked at all the pro global warming reports without looking at reports from scientists who disagree with the alarmists, some of them Nobel Laureates, them they are just brainwashed & not capable of free thinking, imo.

@Denker thinking it is true doesn't make it true.

@callmedubious I look at both kinds of reports, but since 95% of scientists say global warming is a real thing, and a lot of the countering opinions seem to be paid for by big oil and other industry lobbying groups, I choose to side with those who acknowledge the problem.

@Denker There's the correct answer. Climate change is occuring as a vast number of scientists agree. The actual question you might ask yourself is whether it's caused by human activities, fossil fuels, etc. Personally I think it is, we're poisoning the planet in our on filth.

@callmedubious You won't find ANYBODY who believes" every report on global warming is 100% true". Straw man. You give no sources, so your claims are meritless until then. Flooded coastal cities? Have you heard of New Orleans? If you think climate change is big business, I suggest you compare it to oil, gas, coal and everything that uses those things just to get a sense of perspective. See potholer's response to Steven Crowder on YouTube then come back to us.

5

Group think. Sounds like someone is a little insecure. If you go into a group that shares a life defining belief rest assured they, as a "group", will hold similar views on many subjects. Tell us your views and defend them or quit sniveling.

clarkatticus Level 6 Oct 11, 2018
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4

Evidence based thinking is pretty much the opposite of group thinking, that is, unless you have a group of evidence based thinkers together.

When looking at science, what the bulk of the research supports, and the scientific consensus of most experts, is more meaningful that a study of a lone person, especially if that person is not an expert int he field. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Stephanie99 Level 6 Oct 12, 2018
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3

Group think...humans are dangerously susceptible to it. I'm always embarrassed when i find myself thoughtlessly indulging in it. The reverse is just as bad, and i do it if I'm not careful as well.
Fuck what everyone else is doing. If i can focus on keeping myself out of, or getting myself out of those traps, I'm happy.

dreamsinflux Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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agree 100%.

3

"Lurking" on a site sounds dubious. Lots of things are certain. Death is certain. Taxes should be certain but unfortunately the very wealthy avoid them...like that repugnant man in charge.
I am not sure what is wrong with saying I am an atheist.

Serenityseeker Level 4 Oct 11, 2018
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i never said anything is wrong being an atheist.
i seem to be eliciting replies from some unimaginative people.

3

well, i agree with everything you said at the end. i can't agree or disagree with your experiences, described in the middle, because they are your experiences; they certainly aren't mine. and i most certainly disagree with your assessment of self-described atheists. first of all, am i supposed to wait for someone else to describe me? second of all, i am (self-described again lol) quite open-minded (but you know, there IS that description of the person who is so open-minded that thoughts go in and come out without stopping anywhere in between). maybe you need to be more open-minded about atheists.

g

genessa Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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3

Okay, and?

Omen6Actual Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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3

I said this before but, the big division is between holding groundless belief or not, the niceties within scepticism are tiny and unimportant compared with that. Some may think that they are on a higher rung of the ladder than others, and that may be true, but the really important thing is to have looked up and started the climb out of the cesspit of ignorance and prejudice which is blind unquestioning faith, looking at the light and not swimming nose down among the sludge where the users want to keep you. Therefore it is cruel and unfair to despise those who use a different ladder or can not climb quite as fast, and for that reason I always call myself a 'Broard Church Sceptic.'

Fernapple Level 5 Oct 11, 2018
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Eloquently stated!

3

I am an atheist. The term open minded is often used in such a way as to say you should accept my ideas no matter how ridiculous. I was open minded enough that I was able to explore what was real and not real and wise enough to accept what was real even if I did not like it. Even if it meant there was no god.

Gravity does exist of that I am sure most of us are certain. So some things can be certain.

Any religion that does not have an actual god is dependent upon faith.
There is no religion that is not dependent upon faith.
Of this I am certain.

DavidLaDeau Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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3

I too left an atheist site as I got sick of the "if god was real......?" type questions.
I ended up posting "If an atheist was real would they continually pose " if god was real" questions?"
Got blocked and left.

powder Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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2

I am quite open-minded. I believe that sometimes 1+1=4. Hey, my opinion on this matter is just as valid as any other opinions. After all, algebra is just a theory. How do you KNOW FOR SURE that you are right?

BTW, I welcome any contrary opinions on this. I hate to be engaged in "group-think."

KenChang Level 6 Oct 11, 2018
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That kind of openmindedness Goes too far for me. Perhaps read the works of Bertrand Russel?

@Denker
I think what I was making a clumsy attempt at is called "sarcasm." smile001.gif

I really don't think 1+1=2 is open to opinions, nor do I believe "algebra (in this case arithmetic really) is just a theory."

Edited

You're confusing facts and opinions. One plus one equals 2 is a fact. Although if you break both ones into half, then one plus one can equal 4, since you broke them in half, they became 2 plus 2. Anyway, besides the point. 2 is a bad number is an opinion. Opinions are not facts. 6 feet is tall is an opinion. Being 6 feet tall is a fact.

@Wellspring

I agree. It was a bad joke. smile001.gif Not scientifically or epistemologically accurate at all.

2

The only way to escape group-think is to avoid groups. I'm happy with this site at current but it will grow and change and in time I'll probably feel differently.

mattersauce Level 7 Oct 11, 2018
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the atheists forum has stopped accepting new commenters since last june. so there are now around a dozen or so who post regularly & always completely agree with each other & even congratulate each other for refusing to even consider any dissenting views.
IOW, they are like a bunch of inbred backwoods idiots. or,if you prefer, the british aristocracy

@callmedubious you are inclined to a fair amount of raving and ranting, friend, and crossed the line into Problem Child territory, as far as I'm concerned. Call that atheist group think if you like, but once a poster becomes that here I tend to inform them of my view and walk away. So advised, and I'm walking.

@David1955

2

Not understanding what the options are to being a “self-described” atheist (yes, the compound modifier takes a hyphen ...). Other people telling you what you believe? Staying “in the closet?” I’m an atheist because no one making claims that gods exist has been able to offer an ounce of evidence, and it’s not something I observe in the world around me. That’s it: to me the idea is just unconvincing. Also, you might be thinking of some anti-theists, who believe that religious ideas actually cause harm to individuals and society and so actively oppose religious thinking.

The-Krzyz Level 4 Oct 11, 2018
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and why would i worry about a fucking hyphen?
there could be a superior intelligence somewhere in this or a parallel universe.
i don't believe in a personal god. maybe POE was right: 'is all we see or seem but a dream within a dream?'

2

I am a self described atheist. I delight in encountering theists, those who dissent from my view. Are you certain that nothing is certain?

irascible Level 8 Oct 11, 2018
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nothing is certain--including--nothing is certain.

@callmedubious Hmm?

2

"I am hoping" you are more specific with your statement/concern/question.. cannot tell what you are stating or asking or hoping... I am hoping for rainbow sherbet.. it's a delicious treat sometimes..

SG1life2live Level 5 Oct 11, 2018
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Mmm rainbow sherbet...

2

I started responding to this and discovered I was writing a novel, so I will simply say:
I completely agree with your “group-think” comment.
I recently left one atheist page from Australia coz it’s become way too “conform or be banned from commenting” in the comment section.

BecB Level 3 Oct 10, 2018
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1

I don't think it is group think. It is just that most of us think the same on one subject...atheism

Shefree Level 4 Oct 14, 2018
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1

Maybe they aren't involved in group think. Maybe they're just right, and you're just wrong, and you don't like that.

MrBeelzeebubbles Level 6 Oct 14, 2018
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1

The only topics on which I have observed groupthink are the same ones that every other segment of society is guilty of practicing as well; mainly PC topics where any form of disagreement with mainstream view, even the semblance of disagreement, is met with open hostility and hatred. Other than that, I do not see what you're complaining about, unless you are referring to the fact that the overwhelming majority of members/commenters are skeptics, atheists, or agnostics; then, what would you expect from us on topics of religion, superstition, and the paranormal or supernatural? We are, by definition, a group of nonbelievers.

Piratefish Level 6 Oct 13, 2018
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1

"they didn't want any dissenters on any subject they all agreed on."
I guess it depends on what you were dissenting on. was it fact based (science related )?

hippydog Level 6 Oct 11, 2018
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@callmedubious I'm reading the comments.. I guess I got me answer.. never mind.

1

Well it is possible for individuals to think alike and remain an individual. Not only possible but something people have always done as they try to "fit in".
Group think is getting a "bad" name but the reality is because we use to to refer to negative types of thinking...and in the some cases not thinking at all but following to feel included.

maxhyde Level 6 Oct 11, 2018
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1

You will be welcome here so long as you do not try to force your ideas on others, or atrtack or insult others.

wordywalt Level 8 Oct 11, 2018
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