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36 6

I want honest opinions and no fighting.
If you want to fight - make your own thread.

I just saw something really interesting in a group of mine on FB.

Someone didn't let a Vegan into a group because they don't feed their cat meat and they felt it was actual animal abuse.

Now biologically we can confirm that with those teeth - they are meant to eat meat. That would be their natural state.

Ethically we understand how Vegans would feel about it.

But I'd love to hear how other people regard this.

Because I was really surprised by how vehemently most people felt?

My understanding was always that you could supplement for the missing nutrients (which might not be best practice - but would work).

I'm not going to put up a poll - that would be too simplistic.

And really I want to know what you all think. I'm curious. I mean it's funny in a way - to see Atheists fighting about this? (Yup it's an Athiests FB group - they're nutty there too).
And apparently the person had some other flaws that were known so that might have been part of the denial as well - so don't think they're just all mean. They really aren't.
But they're all people with long term illness and they don't deal well with people being "woo" in any way.

Addendum: The person was not already a group member - this was an application to enter the group - so no name was ever mentioned. It's a FB thing.
It was not the only marker that said they might cause conflict either. And the group is for folks with medical issues - who are there for support and education. Conflict isn't good for them. So weeding out someone with those markers might be necessary.

RavenCT 9 Jan 28

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36 comments

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10

My hiking partner, Karen, is a vegan. She feeds meat to her dog.

Karen has a good head on her shoulders.

9

To ASSume that because you are a vegan, therfore it must be right for all creatures, is the height of hubris, and actually deadly for a cat. So your "care & concern for all living things" will result in the painful death of that cat.
If this isn't the height of stupidity,..........

9

Even PETA would go haywire on that person. Carnivores eat meat. Cats need meat or they suffer. Someone wants to not eat meat, fine with me. Someone wants to smoke, away from me, fine as well. Why say those two seemingly unrelated ideas: a cat should eat meat and a child should not be exposed to second hand smoke, and both cannot take care of themselves.

9

Cats eat meat and meat products. You want to be a vegan? Fine with me. You want to make your CAT a vegan? Piss off. Only keep herbivores as pets then.

^^^^^This^^^^^^

8

I try really hard to "live and let live".
I get some people have reasons why they are vegetarian or vegan.
I don't really agree with those reasons, but whatever. I'm not living their
lives and paying their bills, and they aren't living my life or paying my bills.
So, everyone gets to do what they want in that respect.
Eat what you eat, don't eat what you don't eat.

However...
Those reasons do not extend to meat-eating pets.

7

Cats are not meant to be vegans. Attempting to put them on a vegan diet can cause them serious illnesses. Imo it is putting your dogma above the well being of your pet. I don't believe in letting anything suffer for something as subjective as beliefs.

6

I think denying someone their nature when it hurts them can be defined as abusive.
Change the fact pattern to see if the arguement is legit. What if the cat was a herbivore and he forced it to eat meat?
What if it wasn't a cat but a person?

Logic! ?

6

The cat has been sneaking mice all this time and not telling his owner!

I suspect take out menus myself.

6

I feel you shouldn't force people (or animals) into unnatural lifestyles that could risk their health.

6

Let the cat do its thing. I disagree with vegans. We are omnivores. I agree that most of use should eat more veggies and less meat, but we are supposed to eat both.

5

to me it is simple. it's a matter of consent. an animal cannot choose to be vegan, and a human who chooses something unnatural for the animal, as being vegan would be, the animal cannot say "hey wait a minute; i'm a carnivore!" it is as if the humans are trading the suffering of a cow for the suffering of a cat. quite frankly, i think making a human child eat strictly vegan is abusive. if an adult wants to make that decision for him/herself, that's one thing. making it for someone who has no choice is quite another thing, and i wouldn't be concerned about it if the decision were, say, only to serve organic food, or not to serve twinkies. but i have known vegans. well, i still know them. they're not vegans anymore. i'm not talking about just one couple or a friend or two. i mean it seemed to be all the rage among people i knew for a while. every single one of them got sick and had to go back to eating some kind of animal products. they didn't have to eat a steak a day, just some whole protein, fish or at least cheese and milk. they could not sustain their health being vegan. not a single one of them. by the way, not one of them made their kids eat vegan while they did. the kids ate normally. the kids stayed healthy.

g

4

My daughter is vegan. She feeds me meat. Cats need meat too. ?

People should not be arbitrarily banning people just because they can. Have them look up community, compassion, and tolerance. Perhaps even megalomania.

Life is too short for exclusionary elitism.

Oh I should explain it was an application for the group - they were not already a member. And no name was ever mentioned.

I believe this was to prevent trouble from beginning.

The group is for people with severe medical issues - they do not need extreme conflict. And apparently that might also have been an issue.

But it was a reaction I'd never seen before. And it made me curious how others viewed it.

4

how is the vegans views, in this case, any less blind than the evangelicals?

If I didn't have so many food allergies and medical issues I might have been a vegan for moral reasons. (My pets however? No. They'd get meat.).

I do feel terribly for how animals suffer in the process of providing food for humans and that we seem to not value that at all - and we are so distanced from it.

It's barbaric in another sense entirely.

I've had friends who were hunters and in some ways felt better about what they did - than what goes on in food that's mass produced.

That part of me that loves animals? That part gets pretty freaked out by the whole thing.

My Grandmother used to kill a chicken for the family - than eat bread for dinner. I suspect I know how she felt. That's the part that wishes I could do vegan.

@RavenCT Wildlife that's Hunted lives a far better life and usually dies a far better death than anything the industries provide. and hunters often have a far better handle on healthy animal populations than the save the squirrels people..

@hankster I know. I wish I had that talent and ability too. And the stomach for it.

Of course I'm just like my grandmother. I'm sure in a survival situation I'd do just fine. And if I'd brought up that way? Nothing wrong with it.

Way more merciful than watching deer starve in deep winter. I've seen that a few times. It's awful.

They seem to balance that pretty well here in CT with the hunting licenses.

@RavenCT in some distopic future im sure you're quite the neck wringer...lol ? here the hunters have trouble keeping some populations in check.

@hankster Bow and arrow all the way. 😉

@RavenCT boomerang!

@hankster i have swords! But no speed or stealth... Oh well...

@Gooniesnvrdie , I think that's the 'no fighting' rule 🙂

4

Cats need Protein from meats..as do humans..

@Gooniesnvrdie plants don’t have everything humans need to survive. In modern times the lacking nutrient components can be supplemented. This allows vegans to be healthy, however if it wasn’t for supplements they couldn’t survive.

Humans are omnivores.
Cats however are flesh eaters primarily. This is over 90% of their diet. Cats do get predigested greens and grains from the stomach of their prey. Cats are bird and rodent hunters primarily.
A cat only fed in plant protein will be malnourished and die. She’s forcing her belief system on onther being.

@Gooniesnvrdie thriving and surviving malnourished are not the same. Cats are obligate carnivores. They need to eat meat to survive. Their digestive system isn't made to handle anything else. They will not thrive on it and will likely die.

@Gooniesnvrdie
I don’t know your cat, but I know biology very well.

Cats get certain key nutrients from meat: taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A and vitamin B12. These are difficult or impossible to get from plants.

Also my cats eat a raw diet of organic humanly killed meat.

@Gooniesnvrdie but what sources do those ingredients come from?

@Gooniesnvrdie you’re the one that asked. Why ask questions that lead to these same arguments that you are tired of having?

@Gooniesnvrdie seems self destructive and very much like trolling. If you don’t want to discuss it then don’t get involved in the conversations.

@Gooniesnvrdie no because you stated you were tired of these conversations. Therefore stop having them or stop complaining about it. You control both of those options.

@Gooniesnvrdie I’m not pro meat. Im simply answering thing questions you’re asking. You’re defensive. I haven’t offered any incorrect information,

@darthfaja Do you have a good source to refer someone to a raw food pet diet? I have a friend who is interested.

@Gooniesnvrdie Is there a good reference for vegan options for cats? My friends cat has allergies and he's researching diets.
I couldn't find resources I knew were good on the topic.

@RavenCT I don’t have an easy go to site. I spoke with several vets I know, did some research, and went on advice from my cats breeder.

@darthfaja i did recommend his Vet - who was sending them to an allergy specialist.

It is difficult to get factual information about diet for anyone these days. We know a lot - but some is conjecture. And some diets descend into harm.

@RavenCT agree completely
Cats are fairly simple their diet in nature consists or rodents and birds primarily.

3

Oh man. I saw these kinda words in this post.... something about a vegan forcing their carnivorous pet CAT to be vegan. Yeah I don't blame whoever for blocking that person.
Pure cruelty. Cats REQUIRE TAURINE FOR SURVIVAL. Taurine = found only in certain meat products!

Ugh!

3

This topic (feeding cats a vegan diet) is often banned in vegan groups on FB simply because it’s divisive even among vegans. I am vegan but my cats and dogs eat non-vegan foods currently. I’m still doing research on the now available commercial vegan foods for both dogs and cats. There is now a brand of vegan cat food that is much more sophisticated than just feeding your cats fruits and veggies. I’m still doing more research into this so for now not switching from what I’ve been feeding. I’m looking into vegan dog food for one of my dogs because she’s allergic to just about all animal proteins.

Interestingly, a lot of commercially available cat foods, especially the popular brands sold at grocery stores might as well be vegan because they barely have any meat anyway. Even the ones sold at the vet clinics. Take a look at the ingredients list (I always do): corn, soy, brewers rice, etc.

That’s all I’m going to say because after reading most of the previous responses I just shook my head. It’s not worth my time to get into arguments.

Why would you want your animals to be vegan? Just for ethical (meat production can be horrible) reasons? What about the fact that they evolved to eat certain things? And because I know it's hard to gauge tone on the internet, I honestly want to know, I'm not looking for a fight.

@Remi As I said, I’m not getting caught into this discussion beyond what I already said. It could be a very long complex discussion.

But....if you can avoid killing animals while achieving your feeding goals, why wouldn’t you choose that. BTW, most of my pets are rescues with nowhere else to go. They are not pleasure slaves as someone said here (that’s PETA’s stance and I hate PETA). My pets are my children.

Yes when I learned about the lack of control of pet food over all from my cat groups I was appalled. I can imagine the division among vegans too.
The misinformation about cat food is terrible.

They don't even have to put salt content on it and that can be deadly.

I've always seen pets as companions. I'm unsure about people who see them otherwise but I know they exist? (sigh).

I keep hoping someone gets clearer or perhaps more transparent? About precisely what cats/pets should be eating. The battles over that topic are epic on the pet boards. I know.

Keep doing your research - maybe they'll figure it out one day.

3
  1. to me that is the worst kind of anthropomorphism, as it is actually dangerous for the cat. Cats are cats, peeps are peeps.

  2. does anyone else think it's a little hypocritical for a vegan to own a cat, since veganism is typically closely tied to animal rights, cruelty, and exploitation? BTW I could argue both ways logically, but it just feels hypocritical. ?

3

If you have a pet then you must always try to act in its best interests, regardless of your personal ethics. Domestic dogs are omnivores, and can live on a meat free diet provided that it is appropriately supplimented. Cats however, are obligate carnivores... The good news for outdoor cats is that they will just hunt their meat, and so owning a "meat free" cat as a vegan is pointless.

100% agree; furthermore, cats being obligate carnivores is the exact reason why dogs love to eat dried cat feces. Because of their extremely protein-rich diet, their feces retains a high protein content. To a dog, this is just like a little dried jerky stick.

3

Honest opinion, I think a cat is going to eat what it wants to eat.

My cat eats meat, and feelings.

Fairly certain half of my cats diet is souls.

3

I've met vegan cats and dogs. I've also seen both woof down meat when the owners not looking, instinct I suspect.
Cats will hunt so unless you keep it locked indoors at all times, it will be eating meat. Even inside it would munch on a cockroach I'm sure. So don't kid yourself it's a vegan cat.

3

I saw a clip on PBS where a deer ate a bird. Odd. But the narrator said it needed protein.

Nice. I know rabbits have been caught eating carrion. That's how it starts. That's how we started eating meat.

3

Cats are mainly meat eaters. So it would be changing the natural nature, of the cat! They are hunters...it may not look so great, but nature has been balancing itself, way before humans entered the life cycle! In the not to distant future, (at the rate we are becoming individualized), every person will be in his own clan! Wonder how that will play out?

@Gooniesnvrdie I know of cats (all my life) that are fed well and still eat mice. Animal abuse in feed lots is not ignored...remedies are in place when this occurs. Are you aware of how many feeds lots there are in this country? There is bound to be isolated problems, when there are so many lots! Just like abuse in nursing homes, there is some out of touch individuals, who will abuse the patients! Human nature is not exact, in all humans!

@Gooniesnvrdie then don’t create any feed lots...it is not your ‘thing!’

3

People are omnivores, cats and dogs carnivores. End of any intelligent conversation, regardless of what the makers may tell you.

2

So many comments.
My thoughts: No. They’re carnivores and need the nutrition.

2

"Ethically we understand how Vegans would feel about it."

I've never understood vegan "ethics", and not for lack of trying. Seems to me if animal autonomy was so sacred, they wouldn't want to keep them as pleasure slaves. But I'm confident there's a vegan "rationale" for that.

skado Level 8 Jan 28, 2019

Oh I don't actually know how they view companion animals? But I believe it is as companions as I do mine?

There are things done 'for their own good' but nothing else is forced. I have one cat that had a traumatic kittenhood and we touch on her terms - except for medical necessity or where health and well being is involved.

She seems good with that?

@RavenCT
I sure don’t have a problem with keeping pets myself, I have several. I’m just guessing that some vegans are opposed to it. I’m sure individual vegans vary. I just don’t see consistency in being unwilling to feed a carnivore meat, but being willing to keep it captive without its consent. See what I’m saying?

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