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It seems atheists DOMINATE this site, despite the fact it's an agnostic one. There's a BIG difference between the two, but it's always being obscured by people who want to insinuate themselves into agnostic discussions and poison them with negativity and pessimism, all the while claiming to be "agnostic atheists." NONSENSE. They say religion is false. Likely, beyond reasonable doubt, no dispute, but how do they KNOW? They say death is The End. Really? Did a burning bush tell you that? They say the deeds of bad people go unpunished. Regrettably that may be the case; then again, maybe not. But not according to them. To them, atheism IS a religion; they make their statements with such absolutist finality they sound exactly like the people they criticize.
That's okay, I say, like the theists they have every right to their opinion. Somewhere. What strikes me oftentimes the similarity between death as The End, and death as the gateway to hell. SOME atheists aren't that down on it, saying it's okay if we just disappear. SOME are pretty bummed about it. But they all agree it's a FACT. Who says?
Atheists are SO sure they malign those who point out they may be overreacting to their oppressive, rigid, doctrinaire past, or simply substituting their own ideology for that one.
The great thing about agnosticism, which seems to have escaped them, is ANYTHING is possible. Think about that for a minute, while I add qualifiers. Except for those things which can be ruled out as being physically impossible (miracles), for instance, there are potentially whole "dimensions," spectrums outside the range of our five senses. We can't prove they exist, but we can't prove they don't either. There are phenomenon like telepathy, extrasensory perception, and psychic abilities which have been circumstantially shown to be not only possible, but very hard to deny. Reincarnation? Hundreds, maybe THOUSANDS of books have documented people with verifiable memories, specific, factual memories, of things they could not POSSIBLY have knowledge (and no coaching). Crop circles can't be dismissed as two men with strings and shovels in a field. Aliens can't be automatically ruled out. There is SO MUCH we do not know, no belief in "God" necessary. Much of what I'm talking about, wide swaths of it even, might be bullsh*t, unjustified mutterings by looney tunes dreamers or charlatans, but ALL of it? Despite what some atheists say, that's just ridiculous. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you can lump it in with purely faith-based hokum and dismiss it out of hand. To say ANYTHING is absolutely, positively the truth is to replace one " belief system " with another "belief system," just changing the words.
There ARE, to be sure, areas of agreement between agnostics and atheists. They agree there a 99.9999...% certainty there is no such thing as heaven and hell, for instance. No chance a supernatural entity dreamed up the chaotic madness on this planet. The list goes on and on.
But just because we can rule out some things does NOT mean we can ignore good indications some things are worthy of consideration, without being castigated as someone who hasn't "let go" of superstitious religiosity. Some of these atheists, in fact, sound like Old Testament prophets in reverse! No, God isn't going to smite you, but something will, then you die and begone with you! You're nothing! An insignificant speck on the arse of the universe! Well, maybe. Certainly plausible. But then again, maybe not. Believing many things are worth mulling over, investigating, talking about, doesn't mean they're true, but it doesn't mean they're false, either.
I hope our atheist friends don't bring down their righteous wrath on me for speaking so forthrightly, but I'm fed up with their orthodoxy. I have NO hope this will be the case, but it is my fervent longing that henceforth they make clear the things they say are their OPINION, when appropriate, and not fact. That they pause and reflect before they say the same unverifiable, unknowable, unsubstantiated things of which they accuse our enemies, who are legion.
I don't mind at all if you're a nihilist, say; certainly an understandable point of view. But to say life is DEFINITELY meaningless is stretching it, don't you admit? Aren't you contracting and narrowing your mind, closing it off just a hair, perhaps, if you aver CATEGORICALLY extraterrestials didn't mess with our DNA, creating humans out of primordial men? Just sayin'...
Anyway, I feel better now...if anybody thinks I'm talking specifically about them, I assure you, insist vehemently, I am not! I'm talking in vague generalities about no one in particular. This is just an impression plucked out of the air and offered humbly as a possible topic for discussion.

Storm1752 8 Mar 25
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38 comments (26 - 38)

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I am laughing . Thank u ???

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I was going to read that and look for keywords and phrases like "but to be fair..." Or "bringing balance" or even some references to Heidegger or some s hit like that. But my eyes glazed over way too fast. So here's my totally one sided, judgemental af, single solitary thought line. You can't prove that A leads to B, but notB leads to notA. However you can't disprove it either. So yeah, two possibilities exist. But only one can be right. I've made up my mind, and there's not much to talk about. I'm fairly certain there are more people like me.

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Maybe yes, maybe not? How about giving you nothing and say - it is a million dollars. Maybe yes, maybe not? Religion is the stupidest, most dangerous idea humans ever invented.

zesty Level 7 Mar 29, 2019
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The term "agnostic" was coined by Thomas Huxley, aka Darwin's Bulldog. He defined it as A-gnosis, or without knowledge. An Agnostic therefore lacks knowledge of god. By the same reasoning, an A-theist is without belief in god. I am an agnostic atheist, as I lack any knowledge of a god and therefore lack a belief in god.

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The difference between an atheist and agnostic is how much fear they have.... Atheists know there is no reason to fear because gods are just fairy tales while agnostics are afraid the god they were brainwashed into believing as a child might actually be real... Rid yourself of the fear and you won't be so cranky....

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The term Agnostic applies to many things. My question to myself then becomes, “Am I agnostic regarding sprites, fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, unicorns, Santa, the Easter bunny and/or the tooth fairy?” I think the truth is very few of us are truly agnostic about anything. Atheism therefore, being lack of a belief in someone else’s predudices, doesn’t equate to itself being a belief.

I'm speechless.

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It all gets a bit C17th Protestant/Catholic here from time to time, and that didn’t end well! Tomate- o, Tomart-o? Just sayin’

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Bit of a long post but I kept going because you make some good points. I have noticed that there is a militant atheist mindset here from time to time so best to move along from those discussions as you would JW or Sunni Islam.

Tell me about it.

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1): The site advertises itself as a meeting place for agnostics, ATHEISTS, etc, etc. I put atheists in blocks as I can only assume you missed it.

2): The atheist position is simple - they, which includes me, don’t believe in a god or gods, or anthing similar, on the grounds of there being no evidence for them. That’s it. Anything else an ‘atheist’ might add to that is just padding to make it sound more complex. The agnostic position, as I understand it (there seems sometimes to be nearly as many definitions as there are agnostics), boils down to that they don’t know whether there’s a god or not. They neither believe nor disbelieve. Forgive me if I’m wrong - I can only pass on what I’ve been told.

3): Even Richard Dawkins is on record as saying that given credible evidence, he would believe. Every atheist I know says the same. Someone further on in the thread critiqued the atheist position that those who promulgate god should provide the evidence. He/she took the position that it was equally an atheist responsibilty to prove god didn’t exist. Rubbish. Apart from it being nigh on impossible to prove a negative, it is always the one that makes a proposal that has to provide the evidence for it. And that is the scientific method, as denied by the same commentator.

4): There are militant, proselytising atheists. For their own various reasons, they seek to ACTIVELY turn people away from religious belief. I’m not one of them - I’d prefer that no-one believed in god, but other than that preference, I couldn’t give a shit what anyone believes, as far as religion is concerned. And I believe in peoples’ freedom of faith and religion, or the lack of it. I’m aware that some who call themselves atheists do not believe in that freedom. They’re just rightists and nazis. Atheism isn’t a political philosophy. Most of us do appear to be ‘progressive’ politically, however.

5): Vaguely carrying on with the political beliefs thing, I note on your profile that you are open to meeting women. Does your ‘sweetie’ (who you say you worship) know about that? And how attractive a prospect to women do you think you may appear to be, given that one of your profile photos shows two naked women, one apparently preparing to sit on the other’s face, or just leaving it? Looks like a winner to me.

Here to help.

Thank you! That WAS instructive! I only read the first few lines because something came immediately to mind: why not just call yourself agnostic? How do you define the difference? Do you see the word 'atheist' as more assertive, aggressive, and even 'dominant?' In a word, masculine? Virile, direct? Because it is MY assertion the difference is superficial, at best, UNLESS you insert the word, "sure." As in, atheists are SURE there is no God. None of this wishy-washy "don't know" stuff...
Am zi correct? What's the main difference in your book?

@Storm1752 I think I explained that quite thoroughly. At the risk of repeating myself, atheists don’t believe, agnostics don’t know, or so it seems to me. No real atheist will EVER say ‘there is no god’. Saying that you’re sure that there is no god is empty, foolish posturing. Those that do say that haven’t quite got a handle on what atheism means (from the Greek - ‘no god&rsquo😉. Atheism is based solely on the lack of evidence. That lack generates the belief that there is no such thing. But the belief is evidence based, not blind faith.

There is no evidence for god, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Show us the evidence, and we’ll believe. Atheism is a more robust philosophy than agnosticism, which is riven with doubt, due to many of its followers getting diverted by ‘strange ocurrences’ and the like. As I said, the atheist position is simple. No direct evidence, so we don’t believe. We don’t get side-tracked by ‘mysteries’. But nobody actually knows. Quite possibly never will.

I find your leading question at the end quite condescending: you provide a range of alternative reasons for calling oneself an atheist that don’t bear any relation to anything except your own unfounded beliefs and prejudice. And not knowing something is not wishy-washy; we don’t know, nobody does. It’s the most accurate phrase to use. But we don’t base our atheism on not knowing - we base it on a total lack of positive, testable, and repeatable evidence. Not knowing is the result of not believing.

You should read the rest of my first reply, if you haven’t already.

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I'm not an atheist. I was never religious. My parents aren't religious and my grandparents were scientists.

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Lol. I feel you. The constant atheist attacks on an agnostic point of view is ridiculous.

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You do realize that the statistical probability of life in the universe is high enough, that nearly all of us atheists are by definition agnostic!?

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