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Does anyone else struggle with hating religion? It is a daily struggle, letting go of hate, as I understand its hypocritical. I consistsntly feel like the black sheep in my community, in my family and amongst my friends. I consistantly find myself hiding or diminishing my beliefs to make others feel better.

By Kc22224
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1

I do not hate religion, or religious people. One of my closest friends was an army pastor (catholic himself) and we have discussions on morality, ethics, cricket, rugby, horse riding, cooking - usual discourse between adults apart from sex (taboo for catholics).
The prescence of god at a battle? If soldiers were helped to get through it by believing in a god - I am fine with it. That both sides claim gods support is enough evidence for me to know he does not exist.

14

I get damn tired of people telling me I can't be an atheist because I'm so nice.

What they are essentially saying is I lack the proper moral framework to be a decent person.

They are also saying I'm too nice to spend eternity in hell.

My nature compels me to be kind and friendly to others and I am a hell of a lot more compassionate than my Christian friends.

(A hint of bitterness and anger in these words)

ElusiveMoby Level 7 June 16, 2019

Facts.

@Kc2222 parents who are deeply religious are going to be the hardest to put into their proper perspective...but, how they believe is not what is required for the children! Everyone is untitled to believe what he/she can believe...

when I get that response, I give them this

@Kc2222 He truly believes that his behavior comes from his walk with Christ and doesn't realize that we are essentially programmed by our DNA to be the kind of people we are. Religious beliefs hold very little sway with our true natures.

11

I do not hide or diminish my beliefs, but I do struggle with truly loathing religion.

7

I struggle with feelings of bitterness and hatred towards religion ... I was raised in a harsh, punitive religious environment. It messed me up for a long time. Luckily, I live in a liberal, good sized city where the Fundies do not rule with a iron fist. I feel for Thinkers who live in small towns in the buybull belt, they have it rough.

SKH78 Level 8 June 16, 2019

Yes!!!

7

I don't hate religion, just the assholes who use it to fuck up other people's lives.

1of5 Level 8 June 16, 2019

This ^^

@Kc2222 an? Try a shitload. Religion is only the vehicle, not the fuel.

@Kc2222 or idiocy, or prejudice, or resources, or land, or religion, or or or. We use lots of excuses to be abhorrently shitty to one another.

6

I am not a fan of religion and think it brings a lot of bad things to the table so to speak. BUT, I have learned over the years, that when you hate, the hate consumes you. You do not have to agree with or like religion, but hating hurts you more then it hurts religion.

creative51 Level 8 June 16, 2019
6

So many of us, I am not speaking of everyone but a lot of us on here, imo, are ousted and mis judged because of our lack of belief in what the "norm" considers to be the only way of living a good life. Personally, I have lost a few so called friend along the way, many of my friends find it hard to talk to me because of this single factor. It's tough, and aren't we glad we have this site for support knowing it's ok to be and think the way we do.

I too, have had people cut off contact with me because I am secular. Kinda sad. I am just very grateful to live in Minneapolis, which is quite liberal. I feel for people who live in areas where the fundies are power hungry and abusive.

@SKH78 ditto!

6

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

I don't "struggle" with hating religion. At all.
I don't hide or diminish my beliefs to make anyone feel better.
Sometimes, I'll keep my mouth shut, but generally, I'll say exactly what's
on my mind.
I'm tired of pretending that ANY of that garbage is okay.
I just won't do it anymore.
If other people have an issue with me, I honestly don't give a shit.
It eliminates an awful lot of bullshit if they avoid me.

KKGator Level 9 June 16, 2019

@Kc2222 Trust that the freedom to not give a shit what anyone else thinks does not happen overnight.
It takes years, and conscious cultivating to get there, and be prepared to get
a lot of pushback from the ones who are most threatened by it.
However, once you are there, you are free.

@KKGator Yes! Exactly. Once the carefree existence has been experienced, it is truly liberating.
I simply cannot work up enough energy to even attempt to care what others think of me. I do my best and am as decent a human as is possible. I'm comfortable with my efforts and my intentions.
No one can shake that.

@Donotbelieve THIS is why we are "us"!!!! smile009.gif

@Kc2222 You just make up your mind to do it. The "weight of the world" is still going to be there, you just won't have the additional burden of what others think to drag you down.
It's really not that hard, just takes a conscious effort. You have to remind yourself, every day, that what anyone else thinks about how you conduct your life, really doesn't matter.

Sometimes, you have to tell people that while they are entitled to their opinions, they don't have any right to tell you how to live.
If they choose to be alienated, that's on them.
Toxic people don't have a right to be in your life. You either allow them to
remain, or you don't. Their relationship to you is irrelevant. Even if they are
"family". They have no right to run your life.
That's YOUR choice to make.

@Kc2222 No. @KKGator has it. It's a steady, practiced effort of replacing fiction with facts in every area of your life. You replace fallacies in your emotions, as well. Use logic. Seek provable truths. Simplify as much as possible. Write pros and cons list, if you need to.

Ask yourself if things really matter and if so...how to deal with that issue. If not, how to rid yourself of that concern.

Find what is integral to your wellbeing and avoid anything that is detrimental to it. I refuse toxicity or ill treatment. If I seem intolerant, so be it. I know my limits and I slowly stretch them.

I do not go looking for fights, but I do not back down or shy away from necessary confrontation. I can also walk away from any frivolous or petty bickering.

Have mature coping skills even if that takes fine tuning and is a trial and error based excerise. Don't feel bad or stop searching if your first attempt is not successful. Find what works for you and grow from there.

Be resilient. Get back up. Admit your wrongs and attempt to correct yourself or allow yourself to be corrected, but only by trusted and proven sources.

This site is my only "haven". It's a pretty great site, but I got where I am by myself. I can remember not being so confident, but I cannot cause myself to experience the actual lack of confidence any longer.

I am obstinate and tenacious. I am also grateful and appreciative.

I'm touched that you found anything I've said to be empowering and I wish you well.

5

I didn't in the past but what is going on right now how can anyone with a sober mind anything but hate religion. We are not just atheists but anti-theists.

JackPedigo Level 8 June 16, 2019
5

There is no struggle. I HATE RELIGIONS! Religions are organizations, dangerous organizations. I know believers who don't like religions. Religions and faith are not always mutually inclusive.

Sticks48 Level 9 June 16, 2019
5

I do not hate religion. It simply is not a part of my existence.

wordywalt Level 8 June 16, 2019

Not an American?

@ElusiveMoby Born and raised in the American bible belt south. -- and in a religious family. But, I have had nothing to do with religion for over 50 years. I do get angry when corrupt politicians and evangelical demagogues try to mix religion and politics.

5

I disagree with it but don't hate it. I am more sad than anything for those that require religion to just be a good human being. It's not worth my spending time being angry at it.

Larimar Level 5 June 16, 2019
5

I hate hate, nothing wrong with that.

Chistianity is a hoax, usually racist, and, a form of hate . . . . you have to look at the base of the belief. . . . that is, that certain people are "saved", and certain people are not, and those who are not will burn in hell. When you dehumanize other people, and picture them as headed for hell, being unworthy, i.e. ("do not throw your pearls before swine" ), "swine"? . . . that is clearly and unambiguously a form of hate.

THHA Level 7 June 16, 2019

I agree with these words. Christianity is oppressive and those who swallow those lies do so knowing it makes us--their friends and family--into heathen deserving of eternal torment. At it's core, it's a religion of hate.

I consider arrogant fundies to be "swine" ... so I avoid them, do not engage with them. It is a waste of energy to attempt reasoning with them.

I do not hate them, I hate their beliefs, and in fact, had someone not "engaged" me in debate, who knows where I would be. Been there, done that. Most people think that engaging them is fruitless, because there is no immediate result . . . . but the key is to realise that there is likely to be "no immediate result" . . . there can be a later result though . . . when they start to think about the argument, and how they would go about refuting it, and realise that they can't!

I see it as a challenge . . . . they are arrogant, and they think that people will not challenge them . . . . and when someone does, and blows their asses out of the water, you can bet it makes an impression, though they will not admit it did immediately.

For me, I am outspoken about my agnosticism, and as a result, it often turns into a debate, because they cannot resist, they have to put their two cents in.

Yes, once my younger brother wanted me to attend a picnic that he and his counterparts, along with his pastor were attending, and his pastor made the mistake of starting in on it all, and in the end he became so flustered he got pissed, said to me "You are just a Nimrod!", and walked off in a huff . . . . I took it as a compliment. Likely it was a set-up that went south on them . . . ha ha.
One of the things that will really floor them is, the bible talks about how Noah took the animals, two by two, the earth was flooded, the highest mountains were below the water level, and as a result he saved them all . . . . So I am like, well, where did they get the penguins, polar bears, and, how did they manage to gather animals that are endemic to only specific areas? (you can actually find lists of such animals by using Google search) You can also take that argument to the MATH zone, because the bible lists the dimensions of the Ark, and it is far to small to house the number of species that are know to exist today . . . . and christians are usually extremely ignorant when it comes to applying math to things like this.

Ha ha . . . well, at my age, I have had a lot of time to think things like that over, that, I suppose, is one of the reasons you will find more older people who are agnostic or atheist! I have googled a lot of things that help me against them . . . . As for the math thing, I just sat down and figured it out . . . . then saved it if I ever needed to post it . . . . It goes as follows . . .

Maybe christians just are not very good at math . . . .
.
The largest study of life forms ever recently estimated that there are 1 TRILLION species on Earth.
[sciencealert.com]
.
OK, so there are about 1,000,000,000,000 species on the earth. If 90% of these are insects, and we consider them to be all very small, (which we know they are not), we could say that each pair, in order to fit on the "ARK" would need 4 square inches for two of them, plus their food for more than 40 days (Actually I think it was about a year, but we will go with just 40 days just to give the bible thumpers a chance, it supposedly rained for 40 days). Since 12 inches squared = 144 cubic inches, 144 cubic inches / 4 cubic inches = 36 per square foot. We know that, the insect population is about 80 - 90% of the entire 1,000,000,000,000 species, so making a conservative estimate, we will say it is 90%. 1,000,000,000,000 90% = 900,000,000,000 insects. 900,000,000,000 insects / 36 insect per square foot = 25,000,000,000 square foot needed to house all of these insects, and their food. Now the animals. 1,000,000,000,000 10% = 100,000,000,000 animals. We will again be conservative, and say that each animal requires only 3 cubic feet living space and three cubic foot for 40 days supply of food. 9 cubic feet total for each pair of species. They say the average size is actually that of a sheep, which would be more like 9 cubic feet for the two sheep alone. So, 100,000,000,000 animals x 9 cubic feet = 900,000,000,000 cubic feet required to house them. Now we will take the total cubic feet required for the insects and the total for the animals and add them together. 25,000,000,000 square feet + 900,000,000,000 square feet = 925,000,000,000 square feet needed on the whole "ark". (We will not even count the space needed for the humans, breathing space for all of the animals, and space needed for the structure of the "ark" itself.)
Now the dimensions of the "ark" are well known, as listed in the 2000 year-old book of bull shit. The length of the ark - 300 cubits, its breadth 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits". This is equivalent to a length of 450 feet, a breadth of 75 feet and a height of 44 feet (assuming an 18" cubit); or 500 Feet, 83 feet and 49 feet (if it was the Egyptian 20" cubit). (We will use the larger size, just to give the bible thumpers a better chance) 500 x 83 x 49 gives 2,033,500 cubic feet. But wait, we needed 925,000,000,000 cubic feet! That is 454,880 times more space needed than the "ark" provided! And, we did not calculate for breathing space, space for humans, food for the humans or animals, or internal structure of the ark itself! So, please tell me, bible thumpers, what did "god" do, shrink the fucking animals?
If the Earth were flooded for a full year, as the bible claims, they would have had to pack up all of the plants too, because they would never have survived submersed under water and without sunlight for a year, since sunlight only penetrates ocean water to a depth of less than half a mile . . . . If the flood killed all of the animals that were not on the ark, and they were later fossilized, why is it that we do not see all of the same types of animals in one fossilized layer, when we instead see them separated based on how long ago they existed? If there are one trillion species on earth, how could one family feed that many animals in one day?

[talkorigins.org]

Then regarding the species that are unique to specific areas:
To all the supporters of the biblical story of Noah and the ark . . . . . So . . . where in the fuck did they get the penguins, Tasmanian devils, the pink land iguanas, the tarsiers, the Javan rhinoceros, and the kangaroos? I'm sure they traveled all the way to the Galapogos islands, Indonesia, Southeast Asia, and all of the other places too, huh? They likely did not know that most of these animals even existed when they wrote their 2000 year-old book of bull shit. What, god fucking parachuted them onto the ark or something? And then fucking returned them to the other side of the Earth? You'll have to think up a serious bull shit story for that one . . . . or maybe for once you will accept the fact that you have been bullshitted way beyond the pale of believability. Stop supporting and feeding the parasitic child molesters with your alms and naiveté.
[treehugger.com]

Feel free to copy or plagiarize it all at will, ha ha.

To learn how to deal with these folks you have to think of it kind of like a sword fight or boxing . . . . if you match someone who has never done it before, with someone who is experienced, the result will be a foregone conclusion . . . . but you only gain experience by jumping in the ring . . . . . If you see it as a challenge, it puts you in the absolute best mindset!!!

5

Since the evangelicals took over politics, and since they all pretend the orange blob in the white house is the second coming, I have nothing but disgust with religion.

4

I hate "The Church" not the people. There's a distinction for me between the institution and the folks tricked into participation.

RavenCT Level 9 June 16, 2019

@Kc2222 New England Churches aren't so bad as that. No racism. Homophobia depended on the priest you were dealing with and word got out - so people avoided those churches. lol

I don't think people would put up with that at all now. But who knows? The Vatican keeps coming up with bat shit crazy statements. Most folks who attend here - don't support the Vatican very much.

It's way it's easier to separate the institution from the people.

I wish the people would just leave the institution however. Way healthier.

4

I actively hate religion. I'd like to let go of the hate too, but it would require me to ignore or not care about what I see it doing to people. I can't ignore it lying to and stealing from poor people and encouraging those same said poor people to elect horrible evil rich people into positions of power to further lie to and steal from a broader vulnerable base of poor people. It's disgusting. To me, looking at religion and not hating it would be like looking at vomit and not feeling revulsion and gagging.

Kafirah Level 8 June 16, 2019
4

Most days I don't even think about it. It's only when something particularly egregious is done from religion, and it gets a free pass, that it rankles me at all.

I am far more bothered by the ease with which the economic and political elite have managed to divide the American people, how they have convinced the masses that everyone is full of hatred, ignorance, and bigotry, and that each other are the enemy. Anything to keep us distracted and fighting while we continue to be dry raped. And they'll parade out a nonstop stream of bullshit to ensure people keep biting. I hate that far worse than anything religion is doing in America today.

Piratefish Level 7 June 16, 2019

Religion is the opiate of the masses, as Marx said, but hate and fear are the tools of the elite to divide, conquer and control the masses. As long as most people lack critical thinking skills, these tools will continue to work.

@TomMcGiverin More people should read Machiavelli.

@Piratefish Seems like most of those that read it are those interested in doing evil.

@Piratefish Reading Machiavelli always makes me feel like I need to clean out the inside of my skull.

@CommonHuman But at least reading him has educated you on just how Americans have become so polarized along largely nonexistent lines.

4

I don't hate religion, I don't even hate some of their teachings, I disagree with how they interpret their holy books, but if it doesn't affect me or others I don't care.

glennlab Level 9 June 16, 2019

@Kc2222 They did not lose their lives to religion, they lost their lives to people that used religion to advance their own agenda. It's like I don't blame the catholic church for molesting children, I blame the indivual priests, but I blame the church for the coverup. Anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-gambling, anti-alcohol are personal agendas that mascarade as religious tennents. Marx I believe said it best, religion is the opiate of the masses, the new nuts it is the cocaine of the masses.

@Kc2222 I always tell people to take the teachings that they can relate to, and throw away the ones that they don't agree with. Religion served a need in the early history of mankind, to teach basic social more's and provide a social framework. That time has passed. Most religions today are still based on Bronze Age teachings. A book that might explain it better if it is still in print is :The Sabertooth Curriculum" It explains how people hold on to old outdated ideas because they are comfortable with them, even though they no longer apply to anything they are currently dealing with. It's still in print 65th anniversary edition on Amazon.

4

When the god thing comes up in a conversation, I just let them know that I am "Your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist" . Shocked is the look I get from most of them.

calgary Level 4 June 16, 2019

😊 agree

4

I don't hate "religion": religion is only as valid as the people who espouse and practice the harmful or beneficial aspects found in religion. Those aspects were included in the tenets by humans. I abhor and detest people who practice the harmful aspects and those who misinterpret even the beneficial aspects.

@Kc2222 Agreed, but the people still decide how they practice their religions.

@Kc2222 Yes and no. People constructed religion to fit their needs and wants. People practice their religions to fit their needs and wants. My sister is kind and not prejudiced: she practices Christianity to reflect her personality and disposition. Other people are filled with hate and pious self righteousness; they practice their Christianity (based on the same book) based on their need to validate their positions. For a long time, people have debated whether we act based on nurture or nature, and I think it is a combination of both. Some people are able to overcome being raised in a household that taught them to hate.

But back to the yes and no: until people become self actualizing, they are oblivious as to their use of religion to validate their hate. They are almost all oblivious that their offerings are not heard by a deity.

@Kc2222 To me, it cannot be justified according to Christian Scripture. However, I also see this as an example to hate the people interpreting (or ignoring) the tenets of their religion. If Christian Scripture says (and it does) that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven and that the poor are blessed, trying to justify wealth is moot. This is not the fault of the "religion," but those who practice it.

3

Let today be the day that you let go and move on. The best revenge is living a good life and you can show others that you can live a good, virtuous life without religion as the prime motivator.

3

I gave up religion 45 years ago. But needless to say I carried resent against believers for years. This was especially true when I was home with my family, as I had to pretend, or at least thought I did. I'm not sure when, but eventually I became inured to religiosity.

As a teacher I have to put up a front, as I teach in a Native community. There are a number of ceremonies that involve a prayer or reference to a Christian God. I just bow my head and wait patiently for the event to end.

I no longer fight that battle. Since I don't believe in any religion or religious paradigm, I can't see wasting time on something that doesn't exist.

t1nick Level 8 June 16, 2019

@Kc2222
Complex question. In general I see religion as a negative force for a world that is increasingly secular and needs secular answers as opposed to religious answers. But I also see students who need some sort of glue to keep their lives together.

Those that rely on religion (fundamental or extrememly staunch) will most likey not be directing policy in the future. This present environment is going to rebound on christianity and Islam in a negative way. the swing of the pendulum.

3

I guess I can't relate much to how you feel about religion. I am really pretty apathetic to the religion of other people and rarely give it that much thought these days. I also don't really care about how others feel about my non-belief and now that I am retired I don't do shit as far as making others feel better about my non-belief. Like the song in the movie Office Space, "Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta...".

3

I don't hate religion

I do hate though how people use their religion against others

J75243 Level 6 June 16, 2019
3

"Good! Use your aggressive feelings. Let the hate flow through you."

There is so much goodness in that story. I hope they nail the ending.

3

Religion is no different to politics if you expect it to change. You can waste a lot of time and energy wondering how it can be better or worse. It’s there, it is what it is. To get around it you have to put it down and not carry it with you wherever you go.

Sounds like you want to be a victim. You can’t change them so if you are serious change your attitude to whatever it is you abhor.

Geoffrey51 Level 8 June 16, 2019
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