I feel guilty. I took my kids to church regularly for years. We haven’t been in the past two years and my daughter says we need to go to church or we are going to hell. It’s my fault that she said that because I believed it for a long time. I just told her that’s not the case and there’s no proof that hell is real
You must explain to her that you did what you thought was right at that time, because presumably your parents were church goers and they took you...you were just following on unthinkingly, but in the belief that it was all true. You have to make her look into the claims and beliefs in the bible for herself and not just to follow whatever you do and think. We have to raise our children to think and make up their own minds about everything in life, religion included, by encouraging them to read and think for themselves. It is never too late to learn that lesson, as you obviously have done.
EEEXXXAAAACCTTly... You have to explain to them what has happened and why... They don't (understandably) understand the in-consistency, and need to know why... They will understand later...unless some nutcase gets to them first..
she is probably confused by now. you may want to ask her to ask you questions about why you're now singing a different tune, or why you once believed, or what it all means. it is up to you, but if she is thoroughly brainwashed, you may want to start small, and tell her, not in passing, but in detail, that a good god would rather she did good works than sat in a church. i actually know a good chassidic story you could adapt to your purposes, and here it is:
the ba'al shem tov (keeper of the good name, an actual person who lived in 17th-century poland and was by some considered the messiah, though he never claimed to be the messiah, and who was known as the besht) was walking home on a friday afternoon from visiting and comforting a sick person, and it was getting late. the sun was going down and he feared he wouldn't make it home in time for sabbath. along came a farmer with a horse and cart and he found himself offered a ride. now he would make it home before the sun set! meanwhile, the farmer quickly recognized him and apologized, saying, "i wish i could get to the synagogue more often to pray, but i work so hard, i'm so tired, more often than not i just don't make it. i do always set some time aside on saturday to study torah, though." the besht thought for a minute and then said, "when you pray, you're talking to god. when you study, god is talking to you. you've made the right choice."
this might be a good opportunity to introduce her to books about the various religions. if she is bright she may start asking questions about why there are so many similarities and yet so many conflicts.
now you could hit her all at once with there being no god, and if you think she can take it all at once, fine, but from your description, maybe she should find it okay not to go to church first and then ease into the rest. you know better than i how that might go.
good luck!
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She needs to sort it out on her own, just as we all did. How about taking her to a church that focuses on a loving god and social justice? The United Church of Christ fits that bill. It may be too much God-talk and Jesus-loving for your liking, but introducing her to it would let her know you take her concern seriously. As for her fears for the family, a UCC minister can help. I dated an Episcopalian when I was in college, and he worried I’d go to Hell. His priest said that as long as I lived a good and caring life, God would find a place for me in Heaven. It changed nothing for me and gave him peace of mind. Win-win.
Sit her down and start with: "Honey, daddy was wrong about Heaven and Hell and all that." Then explain why and let her ask all the questions she needs to.It is your fault she feels the way she does but it's a mistake you can take steps to correct.
Best of luck with this.
I’ve just realized that I’m still in the reprogramming stage. Even though I believe more everyday that religion is still bullshit. I still feel guilty for thinking it’s bullshit. It’s becoming less and less everyday but I still feel a little guilt for changing my mind on Christianity. But I do see the brainwashing they use now and know it’s manipulation and not god.
@abyers1970 You're awakening from the believer's sleep. I grew up in Catholocism and I had to shake it off over the course of time as well. Many of us did. Just stay the course and start freeing your daughter gently as well.
We all grow. We are smarter now than before. No need to feel guilty. Just be honest with your children and let them know how you became more enlightened. Help them become enlightened, too.
What a fabulous opportunity for you to ask questions and answer hers!
She sounds old enough to hear your truth. Not sure her age.
Build a relationship with your children. Be honest. You made a mistake. Talk to them. If you feel they are old enough then explain to them the steps and rationale for your decision to not believe anymore. And instead of feeling guilty you should feel proud. You escaped religion!!!
Before you have the talk prepare by having answers to any questions! Do research.
If the child is a minor I would not let them go to church unsupervised. If you feel you need/have to bring them, then if you can, counter each false teaching as it happens during the service. If you can’t then take notes and discuss with your child after. You wouldn’t drop your child off at an insane asylum unsupervised for an hour would you?
I’ve been an atheist a little less than two years and I was terrified of hell. I wish religious establishments could be sued for psychological abuse.
Guard your child’s mind as if you would a rapist from their body!!! Teach your kids critical thinking.
I hope all goes well.
Don't beat yourself up to bad. We parents do the best we can at the time. Later when we know better we do better.
Just be honest with your daughter. Have truthful conversations about what you believe and what you use to believe. Explain your changing your mind.
It won't be one conversation but multiple.
Reach out into your community for humanists groups or other secular groups.
A lot of people who stop going to church miss the community. If there are not secular community get togethers. Start one I'm sure there are others.
Chin up mom. You got this. ❤
Well, you're no worse than a mother who fed her kids unhealthy foods for years and then learned better.
The advice I give here is coming from my years of experience counseling families and kids. You might not like it, but I write here because I believe it's what's best for your daughter, and isn't that the most important thing in this conversation? Not what's best for you, but what's best for your daughter. Here it is:
What your daughter chooses to believe is up to her, not you. In her younger years, it was up to you and you started her on the path of religion and church. It's obvious those things are still important to her, so I believe you need to take her to church. That doesn't mean you have to go, participate or believe, but it's important to your daughter and you need to let her have that opportunity.
Explain to her that you don't believe and your reasons why. Explain why you won't be attending church with her, but that you feel what someone chooses to believe is a personal choice and you don't want to take that choice away from her. Eventually, as she grows and matures, she may come to the decision that religion is not for her. Or she may become more fully invested in religion. I know that's something you might not want for her, but if it's important to her, who are you to stand in the way of what gives meaning to your daughter's life?
Consider the situation from the reversed perspective: that of an atheist child whose parents are forcing him or her to attend church. How good is that for the child? How much respect does it show for the child's feelings, thoughts and individuality? None at all. And you don't want to do the same with your daughter. Church is important to her and it's not your place to dictate what she believes and take away something that gives meaning to her life. The path she chooses for her personal philosophy and personal beliefs is hers alone and not yours to stand in the way of it.
I agree with letting her decide what to believe. That’s why I feel bad that I forced that upon her. I just simply told her that no she isn’t going to hell and there’s no evidence that he’ll exists and she looked at me and said you’re right there’s no evidence
@abyers1970 Sounds like she's a smart cookie and can figure things out for herself. If church is what she wants for now, then that's what she should do. She may eventually reach her own conclusions and make a different choice for herself later on.
yes she has the right to decide what she believes but information is power and she can't make good decision even from her own standpoint without information. it is the parent's job to guide, and that is not the same as standing in her way.
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@genessa I never once indicated in my comment that the OP shouldn't guide his daughter. To quote directly from my comment: "Explain to her that you don't believe and your reasons why. Explain why you won't be attending church with her, but that you feel what someone chooses to believe is a personal choice and you don't want to take that choice away from her." How is that not offering guidance? Or did you miss that part in my comment because you were in such a hurry to prove me wrong?
@Ruby_Slipper take things a TINY bit personally, do we? my comment was not a personal attack.
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@genessa Of course it wasn't. ...eyeroll...
@Ruby_Slipper sarcasm isn't necessarily clever, and in this case it's not accurate either, but hey, if you WANT to feel as if you were attacked even though that was neither my action nor my intention, feel free. your emotions are your business. i wouldn't want to stand in the way of them.
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@kodimerlyn I stated my experience and credentials in my comment because I do have more knowledge on the subject of counseling families and kids than those who haven't studied what I've studied and spent years in the field, as I have. It's my area of expertise. And what I know is this: when someone makes a decision for themselves, they feel stronger and more powerful than having someone else make it for them. That's true for people of any age - kids as young as 5, teenagers, adults. This is why I counseled the OP to not deter his daughter from church. As he wrote in his comment, she's expressed an interest in attending church, so it's obviously important to her at the moment and something she wants to do. She's made that decision for herself and should be allowed to pursue it and make her own decisions on what philosophy she chooses for her life. As I wrote in my original comment, consider the reverse situation: an atheist kid forced to attend church by his or her religious parents. What does that do for his growth and development, his exploration of his individuality? Enabling kids to do those things is what creates healthier, more well balanced kids. Forcing them to share your beliefs and attend church or not attend church, as the case may be, only harms them, damages the parent-child relationship, creates less trust between them. If that's what you want to see happen, then by all means, push a kid into doing something he or she doesn't believe in, turn them into you, create that mistrust and divide between your guidance and their individuality. If, however, you want to create a healthy relationship with your kids, have your kid learn to make his or her own choices and become a stronger, more confident and more emotionally balanced individual, then when it comes to personal philosophies, don't force yours down their throat.
@kodimerlyn And if you "guide" your child to believe as you do, rather than letting them make their own decision, you're creating an unhealthy relationship with your child. "Guidance" does not mean telling kids, "this is what I believe, so you need to choose the same belief system." Guidance means telling kids, "This is what I believe and here are my reasons why, but I trust you to make your own decision." If you can't do that with your kids, you're creating an unhealthy relationship with them. It seems like the OP understands this and from what he's written, it seems like his daughter has a good head on her shoulders and will make a balanced choice for herself. Guidance does not mean "guiding" kids to believe as you believe.
@Ruby_Slipper Just as there are 2 sides to every coin, any child needs to learn that there are also 2 sides to every story, etc, otherwise, how can they be expected to make a proper decision.
I literally raised my daughter, single-handed, from 1 week of age until her untimely death from cancer aged a mere 16 years old and ALWAYS told her both sides of anything, answered her questions, and they were numerous and most various to say the least, with completely open truth, honesty and the facts as suited to her relative age and comprehension capabilities and THAT WAS well before I studied and gained my Degree in Child Counselling and Psychology.
Imho, though we may THINK that a mere piece of paper, i.e. a Degree/Diploma, MAKES us whole lot wiser and smarter than those who have not such a thing, we ARE merely deluding ourselves in the end.
@Triphid Ahh, the dudes always come out on this site to talk women down. Can't say I'm surprised to see it yet again. It's one of the reasons I hardly post here any more. So many "rational minded" dudes here who just want to be right and not accept anything women say, especially those with advanced degrees. The second I mention my accomplishments, there's always some dude on this site (and elsewhere on the interwebs, too; it's not just here) who's ready to knock my hard work and effort and claim I know nothing about what I speak. For the record, it's not my masters degree that makes me wiser, it's my years of experience in the field that do. I'm not just talking out of my ass. But please, continue to be a detractor for women. Continue to tell us our hard work and degrees mean nothing, that we don't know what we're talking about. I'm sure other women here who've studied and worked hard to get where they are appreciate your perspective. Yet another dude telling them what they've done has no merit.
@Ruby_Slipper Hey, hold back on your 'persecution complex' here.
I WAS merely stating an OPINION from innumerable years of experience in the same field as yours.
I WAS NOT disrespecting nor disparaging woman or you just stating what I have over the years, and YES, my methods whilst still working, though mostly Gratis and Freelance these days, ARE well beyond the 'accepted' norm and will remain so simply because I have found that they work best in the majority of situations.
@Triphid Dude, stop defending your actions. You've already shown me who you are.
@Ruby_Slipper IMHO you actually know about as much of me as you do about a planet orbiting a Star a thousand Light years away from here.
I was taught, once, by a well respected and well renowned Psychologist and Child/Youth Counsellor that, " Texts and Books ARE only guide-lines and NOT the be all, end all rules and regulations as to how things MIGHT be done, instead one MUST learn to go with what is right. moral and ethic at the time and as the situation dictates, for then and ONLY then can the optimum results be obtained."
I have worked with emotionally and psychologically damaged Children and Youths since the early 90's, way too many to count btw, and yes, I have lost a few but have had, thankfully, more success than losses, these days, as I said, I work both Gratis and Freelance ONLY allowing myself 2 mornings per fortnight off to do personal tasks such as Grocery Shopping and Bill paying, etc, the rest of the time I am On-Call 24/7 with absolutely NO Ifs or Buts, that IS me, that IS how I work, that is how I shall remain no matter what.
@Triphid Why do you have such a need to prove yourself? I really don't care. As I wrote above, you've already shown me who you are. I have no interest in interacting with you any further.
@Ruby_Slipper No, I've shown you NOTHING that you SEEM to think I am BUT I AM TRYING to explain to you that I AM not who you see me as.
@Triphid The fact that you keep trying and won't seem to take no for an answer tells me everything I need to know. I strongly suggest that you stop now.
@Ruby_Slipper I don't want to sound rude/disparaging etc, etc, BUT how about you try getting down off of your Cross and give some poor needy person the wood, they may just like a nice fire to warm themselves beside.
@Triphid Again, not taking no for an answer. When else do you behave this way with women?
There is no need to blame yourself for your situation. You will get nowhere feeling sorry for yourself. The only way out is forward, and in that respect you have tons of options.
If you want your daughter to come to the relisation that religion is wrong as you have, you can not force that on her, she has to come to this conclusion on her own. The best way to do this is to show her other religions and what they believe, teach her about science and philosophy, and tell her about the evils of religion.
That’s a good start of many conversations you need to have.
See you in hell.
Right. If you like it here on this site, you should be fine in hell.
You don't say how old your daughter is. You're almost 50 so I'm assuming we're talking about a young adult or at least a teen. I would echo some of the other advice here and make sure you have openly discussed why you quit going rather than just dropping out without comment, possibly taking with that decision, some of your daughter's social life and connections. On the other hand if she's of age, she should just knock herself out ... go all she wants, but respect your right to make your own decisions and have your own beliefs.
I think you do have SOME responsibility to articulate your views and the wrongness of your past views, as an antidote to the madness. But the reality is that you may be too late for that if I'm right about your daughter's age.
If she is in fact younger, then you have more of an ability to sit her down and correct her thinking or even to keep her away from those fundies.
I was a very active Christian until my children were around high school age but both of them, fortunately, never bought into it or liked it. They were able to be happy for me when I decided to get out of it. Everyone's situation is different though, as different as the people and circumstances involved.
She is 11 and he is 9
@abyers1970 Then you have every right to sit her down and explain why the notion you or she or anyone is going to hell is patent nonsense, and find some alternative thing to occupy her young and forming mind. Of course if your wife is not in agreement that may be easier said than done.
Have you admitted that you made a mistake in bringing them to church in the first place? In my experience, children are very forgiving and can also accept facts reasonably well if those facts are presented honestly and straightforwardly. It can also model good behavior that is both compassionate and courageous, i.e.: people screw up but that's OK, it's possible to recover, apologize, and make up for it.