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No one can tell me why I am here in this mystery. The religions all spin beautiful fairy tales, but since I reached maturity, I realized they were all wish fulfillment & not what really is. But I face the dilemma of what is my meaning & purpose, what happens to my loved ones & myself when we die, & what the hell is really happening.

Remiforce 7 Aug 22
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We're here because we were incredibly, tremendously lucky. You won't be back in this form for tens to perhaps hundreds of millions of years.

You're welcome.

You seem to be assuming there will be reincarnation, which is a comforting but unproven notion in some Eastern religions that we can get a Mulligan, a do over, in life. It is nice to believe if we don't get it right, we will be back over & over until we finally get enlightenment & go off to Nirvana, but this can be as big a fairy tale as Christian Heaven

@Remiforce I'm not saying that some day the molecules of being will 'belong to me" again...I'm sure that in a few thousand years I'll briefly exist as a plant, or insect or worm....but the odds of me becoming a thought-projecting, self actualized thinking being is unlikely in the near future.

In a few million years? Then I stand a chance.

I really think Richard Dawkins nailed it.

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I did come across a solution to your ponderings once and it goes like this.
If you are truly troubled by the meaning of your existence? Then I suggest that tonight you vacate your comfortable bed and sleep rough. If after a few nights of kipping outdoors you are still troubled? Then renounce all your possessions, home, car, family, etc. and take to permanently sleeping outside. Taking in only what sustenance that you can beg, steal or forage. If after several weeks of this life you are still troubled? Then, my friend, that says you have been secretly sneaking back to your home to eat and sleep.

What a wonderful luxury existentialism is!

That song and the thought of those poor men in the trenches will be on on my mind. Kelvin, are you a veteran?

@LucasfromGR No, I'm not, dad was. The song just sums up my philosophy in this matter

5
  1. Your meaning and purpose is to live life to the fullest of your potential. Set for yourself lofty goals and pursue them with gusto.
  2. When you die just like everyone else on earth, you will cease to be alive, need I describe what will happen to your body or every one else's for that matter?
  3. Life is happening all around you, so live as best as you can, try leaving this planet better than how you received it. That's about it. Pretty simple.
4

“There is NO purpose OF life. There IS purpose IN life.”-Dan Barker

The easiest place to find a purpose is in the dictionary.

@LucasfromGR Reminds me of the old saying, "If you want sympathy, look for it in the dictionary. It's right between schizophrenia & syphalis"

4

No one ever said there was meaning to anything. You can waste a lot of time and miss out a lot of life if you start the quest of why expecting an answer.

Perhaps, after Millenia of questioning by really smart minds no one has come up with an answer, perhaps the answer is obvious - there is no answer!

So if there is no answer, we'll just have to make one up, just like humanity has always done

@Remiforce No need to make one up, just do what you do. I am sure you will find your own answers if you need them.

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And those are the very same questions that drive some folks to religion. Go figure.

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Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

Your life has whatever "meaning" you feel like giving it.
The biggest thing to remember is that it doesn't HAVE to have any meaning at all.
Or that the meaning can change from day to day.

Life doesn't have to have a meaning. It may be as Shakespeare said, "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound & fury, signifying nothing". But if life has no meaning, except the one our feeble intellects & experience give it, or it has "transactional" meaning, which changes from day to day or even minute to minute, then, as Dosteyevsky"s Grand Inquisitor said , "All things are permitted". Think about this matter

@Remiforce I have never suffered from existential angst.
I'm here. That's good enough for me. I don't require "meaning".
Especially when that meaning is determined by other people.
I also detest philosophy, whether it's masquerading as "literature"
or not.

3

I'm certainly no philosopher, but after giving this issue much thought off and on over the years, I've concluded that it's entirely up to us to give meaning and purpose to our own lives, which is sometimes easier said than done. Especially when it comes down to the existential angst that has set in since I'm now in my 70,s. We're told that life is a precious gift, but I must admit that it doesn't much feel that way to me. I try and make the best of it, but am at a loss as how to make the most of it. I have no concerns about what happens after I die, and I'm quite looking forward to it.

When we're younger, we can often ignore the reality of death. When we reach our 70's, we realize we don't have much time left, so we better get down to business & find out what we really want. Much that seemed important now seems frivilous & wasteful. The question of who are we in this grand scheme of things becomes important. What should we be doing in the time we have left.

There is an old saying. The past is a cancelled check & the future is a promissory note. The past is history & the future is mystery. The only cash in hand we have is now, which is a gift, which is why we call it the present.

Our business is to live. Death is perfectly capable of taking care of itself & needs no help from us. But how to live. How to discover our real self, & deal with the rage & fear & grief at the closing of the day. That is the rub. Only we can ever give meaning & purpose to our lives, at least for us, but we face the existential choice of what meaning & purpose. This issue can't really be solved by habit or social conditioning.

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Religion and philosophy, two peas in a pod. Both are ways humans waste time and energy attempting to divine meaning out of that which is meaningless. How did I get here, where am I going, what comes next? Pretty simple really
My parents had unprotected sex, one of the millions of sperms found a viable egg, which implanted itself in mom’s uterus and developed into me. It’s a process which repeats itself millions of times in one form or another every day, in every living creature. Once born, if we make it that far (since many fertilized eggs don’t), we live life in the constraints of the society we were born into in some fashion.
At some point, after the egg is fertilized and the being created, regardless of species, it dies, ceases to exist as a being, and life goes on without it. Anything else is built on the fantasy of mankind, whose brain evolved to the point where it needed to formulate some surreal reason to explain the complexity of existence. Unlike all other animals that, as far as I know, just live their lives without the need to exhaust themselves trying to figure out why. Does anyone wonder if a rat born in a sewer wonders why they were put in that environment rather than on a nice farm instead? Does a parrot born in captivity wish it was living in a jungle free? We humans spend much of our lives concerned with our places in life compared to others or imagining what we might have after our body is done its time, rather than enjoying what we already have right now.

Animals live in the now because they don't have developed brains to think beyond their immediate circumstances. Humans have intelligence, which some of us use to understand.The purpose of intelligence is to think, which often makes us dissatisfied. It is a bad habit, but for those of us so inclined, it is hard to break

@Remiforce It's a holdover from religion. WE are the ones who direct our own lives, create our own universes, make things happen by imagining them first. There is no great Being hanging over us, requiring perfection, or any of the other things you seem to be referencing, no doubt from religious training.

Of course, most of us would prefer some Great Being taking care of us, having a great "plan" for our lives, giving us step by step instructions, granting us wishes, taking revenge on our enemies, and other things religious people imagine.

All that actually happens, but WE are the ones willing it to happen.

People who were abused and impoverished as children seldom rise above it without help from someone raised outside that paradigm, since poverty and mistreatment are usually all that these poor people can imagine.

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Meaning and purpose. Just because we wish for these does not mean they exist outside of our minds. Assigning your own meaning and purpose to your life will be every bit as valid as having some ordained "life coach" doing it for you.

Deb57 Level 8 Aug 23, 2019
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Seriously...The only constant is change and of all species we are the one with the LEAST self-control. We can't even stop ourselves from destroying the only planet we have. That is reality...all else is a delusion.

Our delusion is that we are a noble species when in fact, as E.O. Wilson points out, we are breeding exponentially like BACTERIA, not PRIMATES. If I live to age 80, there will 4 times as many people as when I was born. Sheer cultural insanity! Our intentions are meaningless when we haven't yet achieved the natural wisdom of lower primates to control our NUMBERS. Thus, 40 years ago, my brother and I decided not to father children. So maybe that was our purpose in life, eh?

If we had italics, I would not use caps. I am stressing, not shouting.

We have both italics & bold. Use one asterisk to bracket italics and two for bold.

@EdEarl. Caps work for me.Asterisks are for pussies, haha....too much work on phone w huge fingers. I don't work for my phone... It works for ME.

@EdEarl Wow, thanks for putting that out there. I never knew!

You say “the wisdom of lower primates”. I am interested in how you define wisdom. Malthus talks about populations a bit. But i have never heard “limiting factors” as a species natural wisdom.

@LucasfromGR Perhaps a poor choice of words. But in nature populations are limited by food resources, geography, predators, etc. Humans and proto humans survived 7 million years because we were not at the top of the food chain... that we are now eliminating, killing off 6,000 species per year.

Oil production is actually the trigger for our population explosion. And it is WAY more than fuel: you cannot name a single man made object produced after 1920 in or around your home that has no connection with petroleum production, including natural gas. Population rises in tandem with oil production, which is in turn fueled by human GREED, the opposite of wisdom. Turn taps down slowly and our numbers will fall.

[images.app.goo.gl]

3

As George Carlin said, "Bullshit is every where".

3

Your meaning and your purpose will be found in your values. What matters to you?

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i think i think.
therefore i think i am,
i think.

You may think you are, but are you. In ancient China the Emperor had a dream he was a butterfly. Was it the Emperor dreaming he was a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he was the Emperor?

@Remiforce ,
well, the emperor had a bigger brain. i think it takes quite a few neurons firing to dream.

3

I've seen a lot of noted actors and actresses have died this year . There are those w ho died previously who have left interesting films behind . I still enjoy watching Heath Ledger in " The Knight's Tale ," for instance . We're here due to a tremendous long list of accidents . One celled animals , eventually grew into multicelled fish , which , according to Darwin , eventually crawled upon the land , and through many generations developed into many other assorted species . Eventually a horde of sperms swam to an egg , and one of them got in , and made you . What you chose to do with your life as you gained independence , is 100% up to you . In all probability , after a generation or two , no one will know who you were , however , you will have left your foot prints upon this earth . It may be the work you did as a part of our society . It could be a wasteful life that left the earth in worse shape than when you got here . It could be trees , or animals , or flowers , that you planted that you will leave behind for others to enjoy , for many generations . But what you eave behind is up to you .

Woody Allen said a great director like Ingemar Bergman, at the end of life, would give up all his great films for one more month of life in his apartment

3

everyone faces that dilemma, not necessarily in connection with losing religion. it is an individual matter. you find your own meaning and purpose in life, for we only have one, it is short in the grand scheme of things, and we live on only in the memories of others.

g

I believe Comrade Lenin said, "Religion is the opiate of the people". The reason it is a drug is because it feeds people's addiction to myth & storytelling that provides meaning & purpose to their lives & numbs them to the terror of death.

Hoping to live in the memory of others is a charade. Suppose you do something tremendous & are remembered thousands of years from now. What does that mean to a corpse that has long since rotted.

@Remiforce nothing. nothing whatsoever. literalist, are we? geez.

g

3

Your meaning and purpose is whatever you decide you want it to be. Meaning is not "out there" somewhere, it's within you. Plants and animals don't care or need meaning. Only humans. We decide what our meaning is. When we die, we are dead, end of story. But we all have lasting affects on other people, and on what has happened and what will happen. We can't even imagine all the affects we have had in this world. That's our only legacy.

Our lives are determined by billions of years of universal development & untold millions of years of evolution, By huge & small events from history,by the roulette wheel of biology & genetics, & by many other factors over which we have no control. Perhaps our decisions have an impact, but that is philosophically debatable (Determinism vs. Free Will).. The notion that our meaning & purpose is whatever we want them to be is, tomy mind, pure wishful thinking. Like the Bob Dylan song says, "Something is going on here, Mr. Jones, but you don't know what it is

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We are ALL here simply because at some time the sperm from your biological father entered the vagina of your soon to be biological mother, squeezed through the narrow opening of the cervix, up through her uterus, on into her Fallopian tube/s to meet up with her ovum, they connected and, VOILA, her ovum was fertilised and grew to become a foetus then a baby.
A quite banal way of putting it all, I know, but none-the-less that is how it happens and what your 'purpose' in life is/will be is solely up to you, nothing more, nothing less.

That is how at least a part of it happens but not why it happens & the meaning & purpose of our lives. I believe we must think more deeply. Not that we will ever arrive at a real understanding, most likely, but the journey is more interesting then the conventional beliefs. The struggle, I believe, will build our strength & develop real authenticity. But the outcome will not necessarily be comfort. It may involve suffering.

2

You will never fulfill your real purpose cause man messed that up years ago. The moment we decided we were better than all other animals, we ceased to improve our own dynamic and function. Our purpose is to adapt and mutate, in an endless cycle of reproduction until we perfect our species within its environment. We made the environment adapt to us, which is why its falling apart now. We are a result of trial and error. We either survive or die, walk or crawl, based on how well we can adapt and reproduce. Your conscienceness has nothing to do with your purpose.

On the biological, evolutionary level, our purpose is to survive, reproduce, nurture the young, & then die to make room for others of our species or other species to do the same thing. Mankind is an animal, so on one level this is what we do. But we also have higher centers of the brain which give us insight & reason, which can be ignored by some people but are always part of our potential.

This insight & reason can bring us pain. Animals live in the now & have no awareness they are going to be slaughtered. Humans are not so lucky, & must live with anxiety about things present & not present, because our awareness gives us imagination, which is the joy of our busom & bane of our life. Like the old drinking song, "Let every good man here drink to his wife--the joy of his busom & bane of his life"

2

Your meaning and purpose is up to you; it’s whatever you make it.

What happens when we die? The same thing that was happening before you were born.

What the hell is really happening in the meantime? A combination of whatever we like and whatever we can’t avoid. The beautiful chaos of life.

I was going to answer, but you told it like it is. I agree completely.

We seek pleasure & try to avoid suffering. Buddha said the way to end suffering is to detach, so that pleasure & pain are same-same. Al-Anon says to detach with love, & if you can't detach with love, just detach. Detachment is becoming one with your true nature, so you have bliss no matter what happens. Easy to say, but hard to do.

2

Beautiful fairy tales? According to Christianity god turned up and we tortured and murdered him, because it was good for us. Not much beauty there. Religions are based on violence, repression, fear, guilt and ignorance. Whatever we might make of life and reality, religions offer nothing to help. They're just in the way.

Religion has offered some comforting illusions to suffering humanity at times, but it has also caused vicious religious wars, pogroms, inquisitions, crusades, & parochial school. Much of the comfort religion has provided has been made necessary by the suffering religion caused. Would humanity be better off if it could renounce religion?

@Remiforce answer - yes. You seem to answer your own question in your question.

Jainism might be one of the few exceptions. Nontheistic, Jainism stresses nonviolence and respect for all life. Not perfect, but way better than most.

@alliwant sam harris has made a similar point in debates. Don't know much about this religion but I've heard it is peaceful. Perhaps it leans more to philosophy than religion as such.

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I can tell you were you came from! You are reproductive unit caused by mating act. The same way any animal or fish is made

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Someone once asked me what I think happens to the soul when we die. I said, "the same thing that happens to the music when the radio blows a fuse." Life is the gift, if we manage not to screw it up beyond all recognition. We don't know how we became conscious, or what that even really means. All we really know is that we get to live in our bodies for a time. I always liked this perspective: [archive.ttbook.org]

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Life is such a gift. We need to show appreciation in every way we can...e.g. by taking care of ourselves, others who are also a gift to us, the planet that provides us with the means of life, and other animals who deserve life as much as we.

Well said.

Comparing life to a gift implies it was given to you. I am borrowing life but I know i have to give it back, hopefully in good condition cause i hope to get a deposit back😉

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You said it in the first sentence. It’s a mystery that no one knows. All of reality is one huge mystery. I sincerely admire your post, and I like the picture. That picture expresses joy, wonder, awe and hope.

We truly are in abject ignorance. For example, the world we see around us is not real but symbolic. All we ever experience with our bodies are our own nervous systems. Ultimate reality beyond cannot be sensed or understood with normal means. However, in the background there is conscious awareness. No one alive understands how conscious awareness arises or even what it is, yet it frames our every experience and gives us everything—it is us, a miracle of infinite value IMO. The procession of organic bodies comes and goes but consciousness just is, not subject to time. Consciousness in fact creates time, along with everything else in our bubble of illusion.

Not a day goes by but I say to myself “WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ALL ABOUT???”

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Most searches for meaning and purpose appear to be conforming to expectation of other people or even organized religions. The only meaningfull meaning and purpose is one you create for yourself.

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