@Allamanda I’m not sure if I understand you. Are you saying that we need the word “supernatural” to speak of emotions and other intangible things? Offhand I can’t think of the word being used like that. Maybe my mind is in a rut, but I think of the supernatural as something like magic that is imaginary and not real. On the other hand I lean toward thinking that things like ESP phenomena are real and could be understood if we had a better way of thinking—more advanced science.

@Allamanda Oh, I am with you on spirit! We definitely need the word.

See my response at the top, some quotes by a very intelligent Brit.

Want to simplified spiritual concept to be more like yours. Because the definition of spiritual cluster the mind for alot of people. It is difficult to explain to others when you reach this incredible feeling almost like an unstoppable high energy you can ride for a really long time and solutions happen gracefully.

Have these flying dreams often when real life is really happy.

@Castlepaloma
I had many flying dreams which were highly imaginative.
Wishing I could get more of those.

Going by some of your beautiful photos, your having some awake dreams with amazing colors and focal points. Really like the laying frog of pass, present and future.

@Castlepaloma
I inherited an appreciation of color. It does wake me up, and brings positive emotions.
I like the frog too, who is a fun symbol for a Lao Tzu pearl of philosophy.

Don't think alot of these guys are going to get the experience from the spiritual high energy and joy playing with the unknowns, they want concrete answers. Love is certainly a spiritual experience of the unknowns. My best artwork is a personal spiritual experience or better sacred. I don't thank God for this gift, I thank more my Dad who I love and my daughter who fellows in my foot steps and continue the song in life.

Happy to see you enjoying the beauty of it all ....Anony.

That's the spiritual I love. So AWESOME!!!!

so how is that different from self-awareness, then? why call it spirituality? the name is evocative of other things. it's like people calling trees and flowers and the sky "god" because they're nice, lovely things that make us see the connectedness of all things. but "god" already has a few related meanings; why not just use the word "nature" for that, then? why not say self-awareness if that's what one means by spirituality? the latter word is confusing enough.

g

I'm probably less Religious than an Atheist, at least less obsessed with Religion than most . Atheist is registered as a Religion in the US, which is bs anyways.

I might be more anarchist than agnostic. No one above me or below me. As far as feeling about ethical consciousnesses. These simply rules that apply to anyone can follow. Be honest, don't harm.

Way different than how a Religion claims they have a eternal place of extreme happiness. In which nobody has ever come back from this spiritual world to tell us the story or its a story from people on Heavy drugs from a hospital bed. Their many morals are impossible to follow.

My base of spiritual I mean, is the 99% unknowns of our Planet earth and far greater unknowns of the Universe. Yet I sense or intuitive that we are all connected with some sort of explainable energy particulars of stardust iron and waves patterns.

@Castlepaloma note that not all religions focus on an afterlife. judaism has no heaven or hell, nor a devil for that matter (some local jewish folklore has some of these things but it's not part of the religion).

i still don't know why any of what you've said, which is fine, has to be labeled with such an evocative term as spirituality. and you're right, it is b.s. that atheism is listed as a religion.

g

I suppose the Jewish religion would have more members, if it had a heaven.

@Castlepaloma lol probably not and i'll tell you why: jews don't proselytize, and although successful converts are accepted (by all but the most strictly orthodox, who want the conversion itself to be orthodox), conversion is officially discouraged. one has to have a really good reason to want to become jewish. if judaism had in it a heaven, going there would not be considered a good reason! also, while individual jews who don't understand their own religion may feel superior to others, judaism has built into it the concept that jews are NOT superior to others, just more obligated than others. go figure, right?

g

All that makes up my inner self, is blood, flesh and the remnants of a chinese meal.
Inner self used in the context you imply is another catch all wishy washy phrase used by people who have no clue what it is they wish to communicate.

Wow!!! That evolution of baggage was as inspiring as Jabba of the Hutt on prozac and alcohol.

@Castlepaloma How about you use your spell checker on your original post . And then read all the other posts about how your FEELINGS do not in any way provide proof that your FEELINGS are anything but.

FEEEELINGS nothing but FEEEEELINGS....

Wow! Every single person on earth, is nothing but one big bag of chemicals and feelings. How Scientific, it's OK, you found your Utopia, you may have hit your ceiling, as you can feel it.

At middle age, it was what I learned after I knew it all, that counts.

@Castlepaloma Not one big bag. Each is a skin containing all the bits. There is NOTHING that connects us that is not see-able.

That's nonsense, humans hardly know about 1% about the Earth's surface mass that runs 6 km. below the soil. That means 99% of the Earth's mass has not been touch and is unknown. Being an inventor and Explorer it takes a hell of lot to draw of inspiration to muster up high energy enough to be curious and driven to find answers and solutions for the beyond. If you limit your world to only the see able, your world is very limited, narrow and unsee able of the 99% unknowns.

It's the very reason I don't avoid the word... because it doesn't belong to them - it belongs to everybody.

@skado
Excellent reply!

Mr. Fundy

Your absolutely right...but.

Your words remind me of a similar evolving frustration.

I assume most women understand men better than men woman. With those who are fully aware of the traits of a male, the opinion categories (as in all things) are yes, no and maybe. Yes; they know and are accepting. No; they know and do not accept. Maybe, hope for the best.

The response to the words like atheism, spirit, god, religion is the same thing. You will have a varying amount of reaction and definition.

What i have noticed on all sites, is the catering to the weak response in this scenario. The intellectual whiners; the ones that supposedly know the multiple meaning of words or at least they embellish their knowledge. The ones that lash out to certain words, have a mental disorder of not being able to differentiate between the written word and their own opinion of words.

I am guessing that when someone writes the word spirit in a sentence, it will be relating to one of your listed possibilities. If someone can't figure out which one it is when reading they have a problem. That being, expressing the options available and why some may not be able to differentiate between what is written and their own opinion, is in fact true. To cater to them, I question?. To silence them is vital to mature communication. If they can't separate their own opinion from words when reading they have a mental problem.

Furthermore, if all those who berate others on this site will not let people express themselves freely, instead of having to fit into a closed main stream pattern of adorning support of anti religious jargon. Then explain to me how you don't have the same characteristics as a blind religion who apposes everything but itself?

Have you ever heard of the old verse of pointing a finger with three pointing back. For those who get upset with predefined words, do you need me to explain those words to you? I don't want you to be upset at thinking I just quoted the bible...

And know I am not putting anyone in this category and certainly not yourself. I agree with you.

@Sameasis
thanks

@Allamanda if it is unknown, that means nobody knows, you can search for meaning but the reality is that what is not known is exactly that. Eventually science will come with evidence to prove something that was previously unknown, until then I do not have an issue with saying I don't know because there are brighter minds probably looking for evidence. The search for meaning was exactly what brought us religions as the easy answer. To me religion and spirituality are the same bullcrap for that precise reason.

@Allamanda read something on rhe origins on relugion and then we can talk. I don't pretend to have the knowledge of brighter minds to "prove them wrong" but I have enough sense and know how to read whenever a scientific breakthrough is achieved. Until then, even though you may not like it, I will continue saying I don't know whithout any guilt or without any pretense of knowing everything, especially when faced with unknowns.

@Allamanda the problem is your know it all attitude.

@Allamanda. I rest my case.

@Allamanda had? Really? Sez who? You?

Certainly love is spiritual of many unknowns.
Is it not better to have loved than to not love at all.

@Castlepaloma quoting Tina, what's love got to do with it?

Who hasn't had a moment in life where love sucks.
Tina left Ike (in 1978 she divorced him), and in the years following, her career took a dive. Two albums went nowhere, and her label dumped her. Ike took everything and even wanted her name, Tina Turner in divorce court.

She is with the love of her life right now and she is addictive to love like me. Love is the most important word in the world, all animals love too. It is essential for long term and sometimes short term survival.

@Castlepaloma the point was not to get your knowledge or lack thereof of Tina Turner or Ike, the point was religion or spirituality do not matter to me one iota.

I open this thread to share the most valued experiences including my circle about Spiritual. Plus how it is different than Religions claim of what is spiritual.

Even if you disagree , we are still learning a little more overall. I got unattached love for you.

@Castlepaloma yep, could not care less.

This low energy is making feel a little dopy..... all this non caring stuff is a bit anything zzzzzzzz.

@Castlepaloma still don't care, even if you attribute your dopy comments to your own low energy and sleepiness.

What

....zzzz non productive
Aaagggguu

@Castlepaloma you heard me.

Well so long as you are happy living with a a definition that upon analysis means sweet FA I won't even try to convince you that you are are living in a Elysian delusion.
Your intellect is you own to waste after all.

@LenHazell53 I had to look up your expressions. I see that “sweet FA” means “nothing” in British usage, and that by “Elysian delusion” you are referring to the fantasyland scenarios in A Streetcar Named Desire—very clever! What BTW does FA stand for?

Since you have given up presenting anything of substance I won’t bother you further.

Pot is the gate exist, to drugs.

Wow man!! that is some serious gobbledygook

Maybe you can open up a church with it. Except I won't be coming.

Oh yeah! we can discuss, because your thoughts are provoking enough. A few atheist here, still think spiritual thinking or evolution is no different than Religious beliefs. Yet give very little facts or evidences to demonstrate their conclusions.

More likely agnostic would find better observation and actual life experiences of Spiritual evolution and thinking that works enhancing their lives and potentially work for everyone, Religion not.

Judaism is the parent of both Christianity and Islam. ... Among basic truths and faiths of either young or old version of creationism . Creatism is not compatible with science evolution... Where science evolution is compatible with Spiritual evolution. That is the philosophical, theological, esoteric or spiritual idea that nature and human beings and/or human culture evolve: either extending from an established cosmological pattern (ascent), or in accordance with certain pre-established potentials.

@Castlepaloma
100%

You speak of the difference between reality and our misinterpretation followed by generations of evolving opinions.

For example: lets take reality and emboss two possibilities with what we have been taught to know.

Energy - Holly Spirit
Earth - that which gives forth in abundance
Atmosphere - unconditional acceptance
Earth related comparisons - stories of communication with a God

Earth/Energy - equals a living entity, all life forms can communicate, we call the interaction with the energy which flows thru us, instinct.

Regarding your last paragraph, bang on also. There is a reason for all this. Science and religion are talking about the same thing just different time lines. Science backs up thru time. Religion only backs up to the beginning of self or memory of self which was when the mind and body became fully matured which was needed to spawn thought for the very first time. That being, we only remember us standing upright. To make it make sense, to a naive mind set at the time, they added magic and embossed it over a truth so it could not be denied. All unintentional but became fully manipulated.

And all that is clearly written into the bible.

To call on BS means you don't even care when you are lying. All can agree on this site or thread that the Religious all powerful and their mountain of ridiculous answers is certainly BS. In the same vain I won't run away because plenty of you here observed and experience the spiritual energy of love and beauty. That is the base of this thread to demonstrate the difference between Religion and spiritual. We are some form of bio organism energy beings. We can feel hot things, the original source of fire with stardust energy from the big bang in the spirit of observation. Or how you Shiband can not see light energy, and observe the effects. Or sense moving, kinetic energy. If you want to see and do what you want and be denier of light you claim nobody can see. Are you a rockman from the stone age of very low energy?

@Castlepaloma he is NOT "LYING"and you are a nasty person for saying that! Posting/defending your convoluted claptrap, while a Huge waste of your & everyone else's time is your personal choice, but attacking by calling people liars is NOT!

@AnneWimsey

Tell me one person I called a liar?. I have not said that yet on this site.

I only stated when someone calls me out or anyone else out on BS is spiritual. Either they don't understand spiritual Or BS itself is worse than lying, it's lying and you don't care that your lying. That has to takes a Religion to do that, also they most often run away. I stand with integrity, daily.

So who is really attacking who?
Geeeshh so sensitive.

@Castlepaloma " ....don't even care when you are lying", just above, plus 2 replies above that. Not knowing what you are posting is not a good sign, pal.

You mean this misunderstood line.

To call on BS means you don't even care when you are lying.

You are taking this out of context.

I will give you what I really mean by this.
Also was added, when someone is calling spiritual just BS. Then they are either misunderstanding what spiritual actually is or how it works. Since I am Spiritual sided few people here on this thread, have been calling- spiritual, bull shit.

Spiritual sided is not BS to me and to a few others agnostic or Atheists on this thread or on this website. I did not say Atheist or agnostic are bullshit. Or I did not call anybody personally a bullshit-er or a liar. Only agree along with all others here, that God or major Religions are BS.

It could be, some people just want to hear, what they want to hear. Also see what they want to see.
Said the Rockman

Only 2 rules, I break-em for NOBODY
Be Honest and Don't harm.

With respect to measurable energy coming from people- are you familiar with biophotons?

I’m not sure what distances we discern them at, or if they have anything to do with spirituality, but they are an interesting phenomena.

[google.com]

I use some of these energies into my eco villages.
Like solar for electrical and dig low into the ground to bring Thermo energy that gives me air conditioning in my house in Belize. There are too many unknown or natural energy that are outlawed.

The powers to be want, fossil fuels and fracking oil to code ownership for the lack of gold in their banks.

@Castlepaloma Words mean exactly as they are defined. That definition will be found in a dictionary. One's opinion, including yours is irrelevant. Much of what you write makes no literal sense. Take for example "The powers that be want, fossil fuels and fracking oil code ownership for the lack of gold in their banks."WTF? Define "code" for me please...

The definitions keep changing word meanings. You can read a wide range of views on this thread and everywhere else.

The US once control much of the 90% of the world by US dollar and Petro dollars, now reduce down to 50% to being close to collasps. The targeted countries for war are the countries that don't want Centro banking from them. Yet they have oil refinery and oil reserves also. There are countries hold their cash in gold and will trade other methods with other countries around the US. The paper tiger is turning quickly to toilet paper. Trump's aim is to make America number in export oil.

To me spiritual is almost opposite of Religion in my view except for the emotional high energy.

Spiritual is the Unknowns, Util in part is manifest into the ego self. Cast questions into your subconscious or Universe. By method of self hypnosis, dreams, visualization and sometimes meditation.

You heard of many Olympics athelites useing visualization to win gold metals. Our Canadain Olympic swim team I was on, won 7 metals at the Olympic credited most to visualization, still a record today, for Canada. I won more world sandsculpture championship titles and more international snowsculpture championship than anyone by these deep spiritual practices. My daughter has continued this practice in winning international awards in 3D computer animation.

Religion claims to know all and be all - just worship and pray, ask God for all your answers. Of course a pastor is always on hold waiting for God to answer for you. My brother is a pastor, it hurts my brain to narrow my mind to have discussions.

10 Steps on how to manifest the spiritual unknowns into your ego universe.
For dummies.

1. It's like an ego bubble, call it your own Universe.

2. Everything within your Universe you have mastered into your ego self.

3. Your desires inspire towards many things outside of your Universe, like problems to work towards.

4. You work towards these spiritual unknowns problems, they pull and gravitate closer to your Universe.

5. The most inspired problem hits on the walls of your Universe.

6. You reach out and pull it into your Universe then master it, then your Universe expands.

7. Your bubble expands toward closer to many of the other desired inspirational problems.

8. Another problem hits your Universe, you ignore it.

9. The same problem hits your Universe much harder this time, you ignore it again.

10. When you ignore the problem, your Universe shrinks. Your Universe moves further away from your other spiritual unknown desires.

When I use the word spiritual more with the Religious type, they enjoy the trip. When talking to Atheist I rarely use the word.

Just the openness of the word Spiritual unknowns helps me sores my imagination to enjoyable blue skys, wail learning new things.

Love, Beauty and Spiritual words have this high energy of various feelings and meanings. The words spiritual, beauty and love have a sense of it being in the eyes of the beholder. For me, beauty is a result of truth. Spiritual being in the high energy wonders of beauty and love making people or nature stronger together than apart.

@Castlepaloma You described the Halo effect.
Unfortunately Halo effect is a known bias, source of lots of false conclusions and used a lot by marketing companies and religious ideas to spread their message.
It works attributing difficult to spot good qualities to ideas, people, objects etc that have other good qualities that are easy to spot. Or vice versa.

Like associating the good guy with the beautiful one.
Assuming comforting statements (He is in a better place now) are true.
Assuming that if the name of the ingredients are not complicated it is healthier.

This happens because our brain is made to work as a caveman in a Savana, and we try to adapt it to a complex urban/tecnologic/multicultural world.

So no, I disagree with you that good vibes feelings bring truth, they bring the illusion of comfort.
Sometimes the guy/girl trying to make good things is physically ugly or/and is not charismatic.
Most of times the most charismatic and good vibes people are actually sociopaths harnessing social power.
Sometimes the most effective medicine is the purified and controlled one produced in laboratory.

Lead tastes good, it is sweet, do you want some lead sweetened tea?

@Pedrohbds The problem with your take is you make it unnecessarily obscure and complicated. Could you distill it into 10-15 words?

WOW THAT was weird.

First, I don't remember saying halo effects, that came from you. I'm sharing, no plans for a tax free spiritual church. I'm an environmentalist artist practice, urban farmers and build tiny houses. The aim is to thrives and make work beautiful, sometimes spiritual. To enhances arts and cultures through the my personal growth experiences storytelling and then give it all away.

I'm far too adventurist and too honest to live a lie. Leave it to Religion for world champions BSers and to control their comfortably numb. I'm a survivor of physical bio- organism first. Health has most to do for our happiness. Then aim to thrive, take beyond working equal balance of intellect, realationships and financial.

Acheived alot more from my hands, mind and heart than automation technology and enjoy more a mosaic of cultures and diversity. You can accuse me for pioneering cannabis, tiny houses, urban farming and snow and sand sculpture industries and culture. Don't have time or the evil genius to be worshiped like L Ron. Sometimes worship women and the Sun. Too much sweetness makes me sick like a diabetic.

@Storm1752 pretty stuff makes your brain associate with true, virtuous etc. This generates logic flaws based on emotions

The word Pretty is someone or something that looks nice, on the outside, more so surface. Beautiful is something or someone that is in every way a beauty, inside and outside. Turth is Beauty, beauty truth.

There is beauty everywhere. It can be a person, place or thing. It’s unique for the very limited figure. Placing it into that perfect confidence in that meaning of life.

@Castlepaloma calm down, you can't ask for precision and a few words...

Yes we hardly can discuss spiritual in the fewest sound bite at a time. I am always open for simple short thoughts or long deep as you can go on the 99% spiritual unknowns.

Is it understandable to say?

:My Religion is Nature: Nature being similar to the Universe, both being of a material world or physical.

: Love is Godlike: Godlike being
your own Universe. Love is like a high energy source of spiritual good intentions.

@Castlepaloma It's "understandable," I think, to call Nature your religion, in that I COMPREHEND that's what you propose to do. And you CAN do it.
But is it valid?
Or is it like calling an apple a vegetable?
For what IS a religion?
If you mean, "a system of faith and worship," then no, doesn't fit, right?
If you mean, "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance," well, do you? Do you consider nature (or the universe in general) supremely important; that is, god?
Then you're a pantheist.
If nature's forces--electromagnetism, etc.-- UNITE each individual particle to every other one, into a collective grid in constant communication with itself--via a mechanism our instruments cannot yet detect--then a system of KNOWLEDGEABLE belief could then be developed.
Do you mean "religion" in that speculative yet possibly valid sense?
In that case, I can see regarding Nature as a POTENTIAL, speculative religion with a valid hypothesis.
To prove it out, we would need better technology.
I'm sure they're working on it.

What esle can you imagine being more Worthy to worship. Or have as a Religion that totally surrounds you at all times than anything like Nature? That includes those apples and vegetables and all living creatures and Universe.

Yes, I have faith in up and down and Gravity & other knowings. So what is more fitting and connecting than nature?

What can you imagine more supreme/divine than Nature for without it, nothing is alive or dead," Humans have supreme power over most plants & animals. Yet very stupid influence by monotheism Gods. You actually made me rethink my word God to changing it to Godlike. That is called adjusting your mistakes. Rather than you can't get rid of your regrettable sins like Religion unless you wash your sins in a bar.

Science would have a hell of a time concreting my translations of Earth's nature being 99% unknowns and far beyond. From the science lab, trying to narrow down from a brainy vacuumed laboratory without the service of a spirited energy, is fruitless.

@Castlepaloma the flaw here is, Nature DOES NOT CARE! so all your spiritual energy goes nowhere.

@Castlepaloma Why do you want to "worship" nature? To what end? Maybe APPRECIATE it, or stand in awe of it's orderly beauty or whatever, but WORSHIP? I wouldn't want anybody worshipping anything or anybody for any reason. Give me a break. That's a gesture of obesiance to that which is infinitely greater than yourself.
Even if there WAS a god it wouldn't consider you inferior.
Does a watchmaker consider himself "superior" to the watch? No of course not that's absurd. Is a mother "superior" to her daughter? Does a backhoe operator look down on the dirt he shoves around? They all are rather exactly equal, only in a different shape and size.
Basically you would be worshipping yourself.

There are a few definitions about Worship. Worship, is the superior for the Religious kind .

What I mean by worship is giving honor too, homage, reverence, respect, adoration, praise , or glory to the Sun that power my solar energy and grows my urban farming and so on.

Big difference from Religious worship, where I can see the Sun to worship my sun tan.

I can worship a woman because I ultimately love her and we each enhances each other souls the most. Every one is Godlike, Oh yes!!! Worship Yourself First of All. that way nobody or group fights over who is superior.

@Castlepaloma I for one do not "worship" the sun!
Why should I "adore" and "venerate" it? It's only doing what suns do. Its enormous gravitational and centrifugal forces smash its atoms together so forcibly it causes a fusion reaction, which in turn creates incredible heat. EVERY sun does that.
Similarly, some planets are precisely the correct size and distance from that sun to harbor life. That's nothing to "adore," just a common physical reality in a (possibly) infinite universe..
On those planets, creatures intermingle and struggle for life.
Some are human.
Some are female; some male.
They depend on each other in countless ways, principally to procreate, and to provide physical, emotional, psychological, and some may say "spiritual" support. There is nothing amazing about that, nothing worthy of exceptional "reverence."
If it is NOT provided, the implicit agreements humans form to facilitate and improve their lives fail. To a greater or lesser extent they are EXPECTED to do their share to enable the species to survive and prosper.
To say you find any of this "awe-inspiring," and deserving of "hero worship," is ludicrous and betrays an underdeveloped, immature mind.
ALWAYS there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself, the Desiderata says, and to become vain or bitter about it simply means you refuse to accept your place in society.
It does NOT mean the lesser "worships" the greater, nor does it mean a better-positioned person should accept from the less fortunate, as their due, bowing and scraping at their feet.
All from top to bottom have a "place," just as any proposed "god," whomever or whatever that may mean, has a place, and that most certainly wouldn't be sitting on a majestic throne in some Asgard somewhere accepting alms from mere mortals!
A "god," whether it be energy and matter itself, or some "presence" or "intelligence," would just do what a god or gods do. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course we debate that every day. It's sort of what WE do.
Grow up!

I think many non- believers here would think spiritual is some form of hierarchy, it's not. It's high energy anyone can tap into to enhance in order to thrive in life, base from my own experience.

The best game in the world is Tit for tat- meaning "equivalent retaliation" because I am more of an anarchist optimist. Of 6 level like 1 to 6. I would give a king 1 or 2 if king wants 3 or 4 instead, no deal, the king wants a suckers pay off. If I give 5 or 6 to my ultimate love person or 5 or 6 to the Sun. The Sun and ultimate love gives back the same. We score at least 10 points each.

The injustices system of God's, Religions, Government an Corporation-ism we live in is broken.

For each of us are better off, having our own tools such as science, spiritual, desires even self hypnosis to foam our own kingdom. Being Godlike of our own Universe to have the freedom to make whatever works is better than a sheep or sheep dog life.

AnneWimsey:
The Governments doesn't care enough about natural energy. Their Fossil fuels and oil fracking and their enternal GDP growth is not good enough for me. I have to care about many of the over abundance of natural energy for the survival of my daughter future and the planet.

Greta and I are astroid of the future and joining the spiritual and science age. If you prefer to stick by those dinosaurs, so be it . It full BS Religious, politiscains and military dictatorship.

@Storm1752

I would argue it is valid. I believe in what is, not imagination of what is. After all, all references of a God define the Earth (a living entity). Any supposid description or message from a God is all nature related. It appears the Earth is all about nature.

So when I read the Earth gives forth in abundance. That spells energy to me. When you say the Holy spirit of the Earth, which flows thru you...that to me spells energy. And energy just so happens to be how the Earth communicates with us its called instinct. The flow of energy interacting with the mind. No voice you just know.

Anyone who claims they heard the voice of God is listening to their own thoughts. Much like when we evolved. The introduction of thought created both good and bad angels. One making us do good and the other bad. Made possible by not knowing what thought was. We thought thought was an external communication for the first bit before we became self aware. And after we became aware we still did not have enough information to challenge our original assessment. Spent the rest of our lives fighting over it.

If you have read my earlier posts you would realize I believe everything we discuss is based on a truth other wise we would not be talking about it. Aliens are a perfect example as is the earth.

I think our lives have all been scriptures for us, by the hierarchy of Government, Religion and military. By method of debt, bribrary, disease, selection rather than elections. It's not a democracy powered by the people first when people fight us against them all the time. Unless by collective consciousness of the people who will need essentially the tools of spiritual/science.
.. I say write your own script for your own freedom of your own Universe. Spiritual/science is slowly coming of age and the tools to separate us from the over controling hierarchies.

Between 'the two' what?

The evolution of the spiritual/science age. These unknown yet to be discover for our selves, community and planet future. Many do fear the unknowns, I am fearless with the curiousity and spirit to find the ones that I find most desirable.
Compare to
Religious evolution which an oxymoron. A few Christain told me that Adam is the smartest man that has ever lived on earth. Each generation is getting dumber with many with the fear of second coming. All backwards, living in the bronze age.

The greatest number of most famous men, I've studied throughout history. Claim they are spiritual, not so much Religious. Some had to pretend a Religion for survival. That is why, someone like Einstein seems to be living in both camps.

Carl Sagan
Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both

@Castlepaloma As much as I love Sagan, I disagree. Emotions are created in the brain. They are chemical reactions to stimuli. It may feel "spiritual." Yet it is equivalent to the euphoric feeling created by the chemical reactions in the brain from cannabis and other drugs.

Wish Sagan were here to explain himself further from your disagreement.

Even though cannabis is the best known herb/drug known to man, its a very tiny fraction compare to all the various known and unknown high energies out there,we all have the potential to tap into.

A drugs can assist & enhances energy wellness like Jesus useing natural cannabis and magic mushrooms, yet they called it a miracle. Like babies being born and calling it a miracles. Over population of Christains is no miracle it's very dangerous.

Rastafarianism claim cannabis is a Religion, they are smoking too much. Spiritual energy and all the various energies is far greater than a simple emotions or even humans can't comprehend yet.