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Should the USA try to keep Muslims out of their country?

  • 24 votes
  • 79 votes
  • 14 votes
Grecio 7 Nov 24
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84 comments (51 - 75)

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3

Any and all people who can immigrate legally should be welcomed. In fact, they should be encouraged. We need an infusion of productive people with a drive to "make good" to fuel our economy. No capitalistic nation can survive, much less thrive, without this type of "adrenaline shot". I'd go so far as to advocate replacing the institutionalized welfare slackers with these qualified, legal immigrants.
Bring in the ones with the drive & ambition!
Ship the slackers to the "SandBox"!
πŸ‘ŒπŸ˜Ž

@ToolGuy
Nice ski boat! I've always thought Mercs are the mos reliable outboards.
So, you made your living babysitting slackers. I see why you might have an interest in keeping institutionalized welfare around.

@ToolGuy
I bow to your expertise.
What then, would you do to get our slacker population into productive lifestyles benefiting both them and our society? πŸ€”

@ToolGuy
Sounds like you're advocating socialism which seems to simply give away more money to those not contributing to society. And, aren't all the surveys and tests for interest and aptitude already available?

@ToolGuy
So.... I took your advice and briefly read an explanation of this new tangled economic theory. The criticism of it indicated it to be socialism by another name.
No, I don't know the names or uses of various tests these days. I never had a need for help in focusing my life. So, as a counselor, using these tests, what would you estimate your success rate was in guiding individuals to productive lives?

@ToolGuy
I'm far from a scholar.
I completed an MS in Clinical Psychology decades ago as an "acceptable to the military" solution to PTSD. I was told by many psychotherapists & guidance counselors that the success rate was then under 50%. So.... a crap shoot.

@ToolGuy
See... that's why I was never a winner when in Reno.
Did your client population for the most part seek you out for help? That would be a different model than what I saw in Tucson years ago.

@ToolGuy
Ah! A legendary social worker!! πŸ‘ŒπŸ˜Ž
Maybe.... a government work program for our "slackers" to repair our aging infrastructure. 20 hours a week to qualify for welfare benefits! Benefits to include 10 hours a week of training for a profession.

@ToolGuy
Sanders is unelectable.

@ToolGuy
BTW ..... who will YOU be voting for in 2020??
πŸ˜†

@ToolGuy
Exactly. You're a Canadian. Meddling in my country's politics. Kind of "commie" of you I'd say.
πŸ‘ŒπŸ˜†

@ToolGuy
I'd respectfully disagree with your foreign analysis.

@ToolGuy
Jeez! Calm down! I thought we knew each other better than this. You're OK in my book TG. πŸ‘Œ

@ToolGuy
Damn TG. Relax!
I'm a practicing sociopath.... everyone knows this.
So.... thinking back on my checkered life. I don't think politics, as in "what party or who's Prez" has ever affected my personal lifestyle. Its really just Kabuki level entertainment as far as I'm concerned.
To get your pantyhose all twisted up over this is silly. Especially for a foreigner.

@bigpawbullets he's a "commie" because he has an opinion?! Oh, wait, it was an intelligent opinion, so you should not have tried to read it.....here are some aspirins for your headache......

@AnneWimsey
Negative Anne. You're using "Liberal Illogic"
His opinions smack of Communism.
Could I have some Tylenol instead? I'm not able to take aspirin. Thanks.

@ToolGuy
Wasn't that suit coat / sport jacket style back in the 70s?

@bigpawbullets ummm, no they do not, in any way...unless you can explain?

3

It takes a greater mind to enlighten with civility than to outshout oppositions. Please keep the discussions civil.

cs10 Level 7 Dec 6, 2019

It's a rather disturbing post.

@bingst Also disturbing is people saying Islam is a religion of peace.

3

Gee,I am SHOCKED, shocked by the amount of old white guys hating on something they do not understand........

Gee I am shocked ,An old lady shocked by old white guys posting their opinions on a poll.

@godlessguy what you call "opinions" I, and many, many others recognonize as racism, hatred, and xenophobia based on Nothing, any more than the historical demonization & hatred of Italians, Irish, and Chinese immigrants (to name just a few) was detrimental to our country.

@AnneWimsey That’s your opinion and nothing more .

@godlessguy history is Fact, and history teaches us(or should teach you) that "different" is NOT terrible.

@AnneWimsey Your equating hatred towards individuals due to their ethnicity and disparaging remarks aimed at Islam which is a religion is not a valid comparison .

@tiredofthis1 Besides being invalid it is downright stupid

@tiredofthis1 you are confused. I hate generalizations about any group . And to say STUPID generalizations would be redundant,

Trying to protect this country and the people in it is hate??

3

Choice number 4: Should Agnostic keep prejudiced posts out of the site?

You may have racism and religion confused. Race is skin color, facial features, etc. Religion is a thought process. Some ideas are good and some are bad. Islam is not really a religion, it is an ideology that does not include separation of church and state. One of the main ideas of Islam is killing apostates.

The poll question is being asked everyday in this country by thousands of people, so I guess we can assume that asking the question on this site is not a major deal.

@Grecio I didn't use the word racism here. I used the word prejudiced. There are other dangerous ideologies, like White Supremacy, which should similarly be kept out as well, but I don't see them mentioned in the question. In the US, White Supremacists have killed more Americans than radical Muslims have…

@Krish55, Of course, you are right about the white supremest. Let's try to keep them out also. I think the census should ask the question " Do you believe in the separation of church and state"? However, I guess we don't have to believe in the constitution. So the Constitution is a living document that can be changed anytime. Just saying..

It is not a racist post .

@godlessguy Says the guy who just called Islamic people a "disease that needs to be eradicated" have you any idea how filthy that sounds?

@LenHazell53 I see your point.

@LenHazell53 He is correct ,Islam is not a race so tell me how it is racist .

@granny I never said it it was racist, it is however bigoted and prejudice against a social grouping in a way that is comparable with racism.
But of course you knew this and you were just being pedantic at best or a troll at worst.

@LenHazell53 Again with the troll bullshit .Everyone you people disagree with are trolls .Well in that case you are a troll because I disagree with you

@godlessguy Yes I have noticed the reoccurring pitiful habit of labeling people trolls that members disagree with.

@godlessguy Of course not I agree

@LenHazell53 It's not racist to not want people in this country that do not believe in the separation of church and state and also believe in killing apostates, doing circumcision of women, and that women are the property of men.

@godlessguy @Grecio So you've asked everyone of them have you?
Just for your information my best friend growing up was a muslim from a family of muslims, they were as british as I was, two of the three brothers married english women and the daughter an English man, I attended my friends wedding in a church one day and in a mosque the following day, their children are my god children and they have been given the choice as to what faith if any they follow.
You are an uninformed bigot and propaganda sponge who has fuck all idea what he is talking about.
If I judged you as a an atheist by Joseph Stalin and the communist marxist regime you would say the same about me.
IDIOT

3

Only if they are happy for Americans to be kept out of everywhere as well.

Deport those pesky Yanks!

yup... I made a satirical comment to nationalist Muricans after Trump was elected.... we need to build a wall, paid for by the American govt, to keep Americans out of Canada. They tried to come in in droves after that oompa loompa degenerate was voted in. XD

@demifeministgal Are you talking about the Prime Minister of Canada. I think he is regretting being so Muslim friendly now. The Muslims come to the West and can't get a job because they can't speak English or French. The live on Welfare for years and years. look at Europe, the Muslim immigration has almost ruined Europe. However, Europe is waking up and deporting.

@Grecio Nope I am obviously talking about Trump, or Drumpf as he should be called. XD
And you have no idea how our immigration system or our welfare system works so I'd thank you not to comment on something you are so woefully ignorant about.

@demifeministgal Muslim women will no longer be able to cover their faces as they take Canadian citizenship after the country's immigration minister announced a ban on anyone wearing the niqab – the face veil – or burqa – full body and face covering – while taking the oath of citizenship.

He said that he had received complaints from citizenship judges who had claimed that it was difficult to ensure that individuals whose faces were covered were actually reciting the oath.(from "The Guardian.com)

3

Let's just toss all the honkies out..that'd be easier..and way more fun!

@JohnnyQB no just don't care for 90% of honkies.. bunch of whiney ass snowflakes..that followed Drump and his Kool aid..

@JohnnyQB btw Islam is the religion.. not Muslim.

3

How would you tell who is the "radical sharia lovers"?

@Grahame hahahahaha funny

3

are you serious?

3

Any nation has the right to reject the followers of a treasonous ideology which advocates subversion of elected government and the establishment of a theocratic dictatorship.

Then why are they not throwing out Mormons? The LDS openly preachs the eventual establishment of a theocracy in the USA ruled over by Christ and the president of the church?

And yet the religious right still exists and votes, dominating the Republican primaries and giving us shit for brain politicians that are perfectly happy supporting the shitstorm currently unfolding before our eyes, all while trying without bothering to lie about it to establish an xtian theocracy right here.

So maybe if we can clean up our own cultures serious fuckups we can withstand the minority that are immigrants with the fucked up bits of culture they might have with them. If we can't then we need to shut the fuck up about how screwed up everyone else is.

@LenHazell53 because the Mormons don't cut people's heads off and use suicide bombers.

@Grahame

@Grecio They used to, they were called the Danite Band AKA the Angels of death

@Grahame What exactly id evil?? Does the devil cause it?

@PBuck0145 Thanks for the video, I think this answers the poll question.

@PBuck0145, @LenHazell53 And the Catholics had the Inquisition.

@Grecio Really? Never heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre?...

[npr.org]

@Grecio Exactly and they try to pretend it never happened too, religion thrives on lies and hypocrisy

@Grecio yet......

3

The people can come in.

Their ideas should stay out.

How do we perform a lobotomy on each of them to remove those ideas. πŸ€”πŸ€”πŸ€”

@noworry28 The same way we do it for everyone:

Propaganda

@Grahame Does anything equal evil?

@Grahame How do you know xenophobia and religious persecution are close to evil?

Could someone argue that those things are actually good?

@noworry28 A little brainwashing might do. Maybe they could go through some "adjustment classes". I dunno.

@noworry28, @Grahame yes, and they wrote: "right to bear arms".

@Grecio they actually did not write that all by itself. They included the words "well regulated militia." regulated! Interesting concept.

g

@genessa What's interesting about that?

"Well regulated" means something like proficient, disciplined, or functional.

@Happy_Killbot No it doesn't. It means well regulated.

g

@genessa The meaning of words drifts over time.

For example, "military regulations" doesn't mean we cut the military to a certain size, it means there are certain standards and practices everyone must follow in the military, including uniform standards, how long your hair can be, responsibilities of different positions, and policies.

In the context of the 2nd amendment, it has been interpreted to mean the same as what it means for the modern military.

@Happy_Killbot words can change. not all do. the context makes "well regulated" clear. it means well regulated.

g

@genessa I'm 25 years old and there are words that have changed in my lifetime! Not to mention countless more that basically didn't exist or were seldom used until recently.

[mentalfloss.com]

Etymology is it's own branch of linguistics!

@Happy_Killbot i do not deny that some words and phrases have changed. i have no reason whatsoever to believe that "well regulated" has.

g

2

Muslims, no. Islam yes. Christianity, yes. Judiasm, yes. Hinduism, yes. I was once a devout Muslim who just like a devout Christian, Jew or whatever else, like all religions denied all the shit of religion and now I fight to destroy Islam. If I can change a lot of other people can, by denying them entry only fuels radicalism more by proving to them people are the enemy, not ideology which is incorrect.

I think the best way to help poor and abused Muslims is to help them remain in their own country. We can try to help reform and improve their country.

2

Not before it expels racists!

Is everybody that disagrees with you a racist??

@Grecio It was a general statement not a response to you.

@Krish55 I am sorry. My bad..(:<πŸ˜‰

2

San Diego is a place full of toxic Republicans . Duncan Hunter is so dirty that three of his former lawyers have turned on him. [fox5sandiego.com]

2

I just wanted them to be uncomfortable living here. I never asked for my neighbors to start attacking them on the bus like I saw a few weeks ago.

[washingtonpost.com]

2

Nah.... Quit the bigotry.... christians and ex christians still brainwashed by their faith, loove to portray their former beliefs as this benign gentle loving religion.... TRUTH IS most of your crazed alt-right wingers and alt right killers are christians.... not to mention to this day in modern society, christian terrorists are a real thing.... American should keep all religious immigrants, particularily Abrahamic religious people out.... not just muslims. There are way more similarities amongst the stupid trio of Judaism, christianity and islam than there are differences.

[hillreporter.com]

[salon.com]

@demifeministgal Def of bigotry: Definition of bigotry
1: obstinate or intolerant devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices : the state of mind of a bigot
overcoming his own bigotry
2: acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot
racial bigotry

I am not devoted or delusional about my opinions and yes I'm prejudice vs all religions as they affect my life directly and that of our country I am being denied my rights having to put up with religious holidays, religious indoctrination, anything religious others try to enforce in my life.
I am no bigoted vs people of any race JUST THEIR mental illness regarding religion.
And it is a form of mental illness if you want my opinion; forced by ignorance on children & others like missionary work of so called recruiters using food/water as tools vs poorer people that hold different cultural religion.

@K9Kohle789 WTF are you even talking about? Why did you take my comment so personally? It was not directed at you.... I mean it seems like we are tending to agree but you felt the need to be defensive for no reason against me. πŸ˜•

@demifeministgal I didn't. Only responded to 'bigotry' comment the rest I would write anyway.

@K9Kohle789 well I would argue that presented with evidence to the contrary, that christians are and have historically been, just as bad as muslims, I would say the OP fits the definition mighty well: obstinate devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices

@demifeministgal I am not a devotee of religion (only my dogs) since I am way way in hate with them. Christians are as bad as muslims but you can't stop them entering the country because as you know they are born, bred and educated RIGHT HERE. Also as a group they may sleep with Dump for the time being but they did not create a 30 year plan to destroy America from within, softly, quietly in our gov't and educational institutions. It's not something to be treated by throwing another religion under the bus.

@K9Kohle789 Muslims created a "30 year plan to destroy America from within, softly, quietly in our gov't and educational institutions" Do you have any data or evidence for this? πŸ˜•

@demifeministgal I got t his stuff inspired by the question; should muslims be allowed into the US. And there is plenty more. Type in Muslim 30 yr plan. Some sites say 20, some 30. The first is a video where she reads directly from their plan.

[shoebat.com] [barenakedislam.com] [truthandaction.org]

@K9Kohle789 If I believe in the separation of church and state, does that make me a bigot? I believe in agnosticism, does that make me a bigot? Am I a bigot because I am against ideas that feel are bad? By not agreeing with someone about something make me a bigot? I guess I can have an opinion without being a bigot.

@K9Kohle789 I have seen these videos and they really shed a lot of light.

@K9Kohle789, @demifeministgal Most all Muslims agree with direction from the Koran to spread Islam to the entire world. The take it seriously. There are moderate Muslims trying to modernize Islam but their success is a long time coming.

@K9Kohle789 This is proof why they should not be allowed in .These people that voted no are being led to slaughter

2

Yes if the are willing to accept our constitutional freedoms.
No as they want to force their religious beliefs on other people.

You mean like the Christian right do, when they interfere in legislature, lobby politician and donate to political campaigns? Of course that is before you get to murdering doctors, blowing up family planning clinics, synagogues and mosques?

@LenHazell53 There are radicals in all religions, agreed. But I think most all Islamists believe in slow and quiet jihad to convert the entire world to Islam. This jihad is written in the Koran, and they take it seriously.

@Grecio as the bible says that every nation and tongue should convert to Christianity you mean?

Philippians 2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord

Romans 14:11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'"

@LenHazell53 All these problems have to be dealt with, but let's not add to them by having to fight Sharia Law.

@LenHazell53 The Christians say it, but don't do it, maybe partly because the Bible also says for Christians to not associate themselves with sinners. I know it's crap., but that's what they believe. Modern Christians don't take their Holy Book all that seriously, but Muslims do. You have to give then credit for that.

@Grecio
Anti-abortion terrorists claiming divine motivation eg The Army of God (AOG)
Homophobic terrorists claiming biblical precedent eg the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian/AKA Aryan Nations (AN).
The state sponsored Ugandan vigilante homosexual killers
The KKK calling themselves a christian organisation as did, the United Klans of America, The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, The Phineas Priesthood,
and these are just ones I can think of off hand.
If you don't think Christians given he opportunity or the right mind set do NOT commit atrocities you are living under a rock.

2

Seems to me that there isn’t much difference in the behaviors of all organized religions. Most are intent on foisting their beliefs on others, as if to absolve them of having to hold themselves accountable. To my view.

@JohnnyQB Iraq wasn't that way until we invaded and give power back to the religious.

@JohnnyQB Iran wasn't that way until we over threw the secular socialist government in 1953 which led to an Islamic reaction that took effect in 1979.

@JohnnyQB Saudi Arabia is the way it is because we support those Islamic fanatics in order to have control of the oil.

@JohnnyQB Syria's igovernment under Assad is a secular government where women have rights. We are supporting the Islamic fanatics trying to overthrow it.

@JohnnyQB The general point is this . Yes Islamic fanaticism is a problem. But it became a major problem because the West uses it in order to maintain imperialist control in Muslim countries. So if, like me, you don't like Islamic fanaticism, you have to oppose the Western imperialism that causes it to grow

@JohnnyQB You haven't refuted anything I said with historical facts. Instead you're ignoring Western abuses in order to condemn those of another culture. You're proving yourself to be a racist by being culturally prejudiced by asserting some sort of Western moral superiority.

@JohnnyQB If you were to try reading what I actually said. I also condemn Islamic fanaticism. However , it is racist to do that while ignoring the Western abuses that promotes Islamic fanaticism in order to exploit people in Muslim countries. Your denial of Western imperialism is what proves you to be a racist.

@JohnnyQB Sorry but the only difference is by degrees.

@Krish55 history is hard for xenophobic nationalists like him.... he laughs off the facts of Iraq and Iran historically not being such oppressive Islamic nations, because it gets in the way of his alt-right agenda and thinking is hard... we should pity him and try to ignore his ilk.

@JohnnyQB So discussing the history of a nation, before it was engrossed by religious nutfuckery, is akin to defending a religious ideology? Well then, we can never discuss American history then! heh

@JohnnyQB reading comprehension your shitty public education did not teach you that.... so again So discussing the history of a nation, before it was engrossed by religious nutfuckery, is akin to defending a religious ideology?

@JohnnyQB you keep talking but you look like this to anyone that follows this thread...

@JohnnyQB Please just stop, this is an atheist and agnostic site, no one is defending religion, they are defending historical facts.
You are making yourself look a right tit, I'm sure you do not actually want to do that, unless of course you are a right tit and think it makes you king of the tits?

@JohnnyQB Islamists or any of those weird religions can all go where acceptable to others in one of these other countries: [worldatlas.com]

2

I'd say no, just because so many flee Islamic countries just so that they can leave the faith. I do believe that we should treat all faith based crimes much more severely just to keep them safe

1

Muslims are a important part of our culture they have contributed much,in the medical field, the military, and in general. They provided security for jews to worship after a synagogue attack, helping homeless people and hungry

Are you serious? They haven't contributed anything worthwhile in at least 1500 years.

1

Just now joining this discussion. I think it is important to separate humans themselves from their ideas. I vote no. By allowing someone who identifies as Muslim into the US we are allowing a human being with consciousness and an ability to grow and change into the US. Any of us who have changed and evolved with time should be intimately familiar with how exposure to new stimuli and exposure to new individuals with differing beliefs can change how we view our beliefs. Important that we don't forget that.

1

I think that every time a Muslim shooting occurs (like the recent one at the Florida naval base) the USA should drop the number of Muslims allowed into this country annually by 50,000. Islam is in general "the mother-load of bad ideas" to quote Sam Harris.
If we could figure out a way to separate bad Muslims from good ones that would be great.

Then you should hold the same standard for anyone orthodox such as when an evangelical extremist kills someone or when white supremacists open fire in a black church etc. One person should not be the consequence of hundreds by dropping number, that only further fuels fundamental and most importantly denies atheists and those who don't believe, like Palestine, the largest open air prison on Earth currently polls in at 40% atheist and I'm not surprised, so to drop numbers and then to continue to bomb these places of "terrorists" don't destroy them they tend to multiply like cockroaches. Your comment on separating good from bad, how would you suggest that? Looking at a person doesn't represent their mind, I wore burkhas and still cursed freely at religious extremists and thought I was a feminist. I would possibly suggest those taking in refugees have a much stronger mental health initiatives for both its citizens and immigrants especially those from war torn/ religious countries...and throw in some psychedelics assisted therapy for those who really need it.

@drkhannabis I don't think we will ever have a vetting process that can separate good people from bad people. However, we need to take a long look at what has been happening in Europe. For 3-4 years European countries have been taking in 2-3 million Arabs by using open borders. Now Europe has wised up and is beginning to deport. Most of these immigrants don't speak the4 native language, have few skills, and end up being on welfare rolls. This is not to mention the increased violence, rapes, and child sexual criminals. If you see a dog trying to bite you, you don't say dogaphobia and try to pet the dog. You try to keep the dog away.

@Grecio right, you keep one dog you don't condemn an entire breed, like the pitbull. So again based on not being able to separate between good and bad how would you create a process that works? Violence, rape and child sexual criminals happens in mosques, churches and synagogues as well or just by "regular" people on a daily basis, this isn't religion or culture centric its mindset based and a much deeper issue because just as many religious people don't go around committing crimes. I understand what you're saying but its a complex issue so a process needs to be created for vetting instead of allowing an in pour until an issue evolves.

@drkhannabis Maybe anyone who arrives in the USA from a predominantly Islamic country should have to swear that they believe in the separation of church and state, as well as being against terrorism: and do not believe in killing apostates. That might at least a start.

@Grecio Muslims are well on the way to monopolizing the religious factor in USA, not only that but they are influencing others by running and winning political offices all over the US. Fear them.
[westernfreepress.com]
[jpost.com]

1

I think there are many Muslims that believe it's OK to tell lies in the name of furthering Islam. I guess that is true of most religions.

1

Is Sharia Law illegal in this country? I think its only if local judges have said so at their location. I guess there is nothing in the US Constitution that forbids Sharia law. Separation of church and state.Muslims take advantage of this to promote their jihad agenda. I am talking about peaceful jihad.

There is Plenty in the Constitution that says church & state should remain separate, try reading it!

1

What about just Muslim women and kids, no men? might be safer?

Carin Level 8 Dec 2, 2019

Ban therm all or risk the consequences.

Not a bad thought, but we hate to break up families. However, when we see pictures of refugees we see many, many, young men. Why don't they stay in their own country and try to fix it??

1

Well, if we add the "maybe" to the "YES", then we get a result of 59-19 against keeping Muslims out. That's basically a 3-1 ratio. I would like to that all the participants for their comments. I think the discussion has been enlightening, at least for me anyway.The poll question was good, I think, but maybe could have been worded better. I think Agnostics seem to be mostly liberal minded, other polls have indicated that. Take care and thanks again.

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