@OwlInASack You're right, there are a few. Yet in reading them I think the hatred is still more directed at the people. That is where the trauma comes from. Certainly the idea of religion can lead people to do awful things, but it's still the people who are the problem.

@OwlInASack - I totally get it. What I don't care for, though, is a division or fractioning of people based merely on ideas. Bad people are bad people despite their religious or non-religious affiliation, or so I have assumed. I long for a time in some distant utopia (read: impossible) when ordinary people can hold their opinions, no matter how strongly, and still Love Thy Neighbor, or live and let live. The current political climate in the United States, for example, has only grown more factional and divisive - and it's pulling ordinary people right into the fray more and more.

@OwlInASack I don't disagree, nor do I see where that contradicts my point, thankfully.

You are only referring to the Christian bible. The Bible that Jesus knew ( if he was real ) and read if he was literate had already been written before the birth of Jesus.

@bklynite53 Most likely some form of the Septuagint. It all came out of Hebrew scriptures but has no more validity than anything else in any other culture or time.

@OwlInASack it is all about cherry picking.

@OwlInASack what you do not understand:. Jesus fulfilled law and prophets of old such as being the active lamb that was slain. So, sheep no longer need to be sacrificed etc.

Then, new testiment plot of Jesusv picking 12 disciples to be leaders of the 12 tribes. The 12 then make up their own rules for their tribe and have the old testiment as an example laws for them to govern their respective tribe. The old law being fulfilled was not any longer required to be specifically followed.

The current government of Israel might be in ways similar to U.S.A. but it is no longer specificly run like old testiment law of Moses and prophets

Israel is a parliamentary democracy which consists of three branches: the legislature (the Knesset); the executive (the government); and the judiciary (the court system). ... District Court (1 or 3 judges) -- Appellate jurisdiction over magistrates' courts; original jurisdiction in more important civil and criminal cases.

@blahblah ‘The old law being fulfilled was not any longer required to be specifically followed.’

That is convenient rhetoric included in the canon to disavow any further connection with Judaism. It was a political position, not religious.

Basically, sticking two fingers up to Judaism and saying ‘we’ve got the Messiah, bad luck boys”. The rest is history.

@Geoffrey51 political perhaps, religion and government is synonymous.

Not really a disconnect with Judism, but maybe still holding 2 fingers to Judism so to say: Adolph Hitler demon possessed by good shepard bringing his inheritance or flock of sheep to slaughter.

The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25

The "Lord" of Israel was Egyptian.

As to Osiris of Egypt:
But he did not just represent death in the physical world, also rebirth or what you may call being born again.

a)   John 3:3 

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris.

John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

@Geoffrey51 Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”

This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29). [gnosticwarrior.com]

@Geoffrey51 Heavenly host (Hebrew: צבאות‎ sabaoth or tzva'ot, "armies" ) refers to the army (Luke 2:13) of angels mentioned both in the Hebrew and Christian Bibles, as well as other Jewish and Christian texts.

The Bible gives several descriptions of angels in military terms, such as their encampment (Genesis 32:1-2), command structure (Psalms 91:11-12; Matt.13:41; Rev.7:2), and combat (Jdg.5:20; Job 19:12; Rev.12:7). The heavenly host participated in the War in Heaven. Wikipedia

Jesus the Christ lord of host Lucifer the devil, reincarnation of Osiris said:
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

@Geoffrey51 hebrew bible Angelic
He behaves as if he were a deity, e.g. promising fertility (Genesis 21:18), annihilating an army with a single blow (e.g. 2 Kings 19:32-36), or merely delivering a speech in which the angel presents himself as God (e.g. Exodus 3:2-4);
The interlocutors of this figure address and revere him in a way reserved exclusively to a deity.
As such, the incident leaves the reader with the question whether it was an angel or a deity who had just appeared.[5]

There is a wide array of explanations striving to elucidate this confusion. The most widespread theological ones try to deal with the problem by introducing additional concepts: the angel might be an earthly manifestation of God, some kind of avatar of God himself.
Wikipedia - Angels in Judaism

@Geoffrey51 John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

@Geoffrey51 "beast" in the book of Revelations is metaphor for laws of government. Mark as in give a mark for identification: mark of the beast means identification for taxation and government control .

Written almost 2000 years ago in metaphor and riddles not always understood.

It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelations 13:16-17

The uneducated with no interest in mystical traditions and the esoteric may regard Ancient Egypt as little more than a place of pagan worship, strange hieroglyphics, and monuments erected by thousands of Hebrew slaves. But those more learned, especially those having undertaken the initiative rituals of Freemasonry, will see a link between the Egyptian metaphysical tradition and modern mystery schools, of which Freemasonry is one. [gaia.com]

Lord of host Lucifer the devil leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers in the establishment of the mark of the beast 666 identification for taxation and government control.

@OwlInASack I had posted to @geoffrey51 character in my last few replies. I understand you want "supernatural goo substance " as evidence but not looking back at history for evidence of things is not what you consider evidence? Please review my pieced-together-puzzle parts that I have posted and see if you think there is a greater puzzle that could be seen with more pieces added.

@OwlInASack 1 point - someone could say "whatever title god" is all good and loving etc. That is relative to the nature of relationship. You might say your parents are good honorable and loving but to me they might be attacking, oppressing and terrorizing my good way of life.

@OwlInASack If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Matthew 7:11

@OwlInASack so like has anyone ever asked God thingie "can you give everyone on Earth a brick home business and property built by true masons free from mortgage free from rent free from taxation free from governmental terrorism and free from religious oppression so everyone can live good peaceful joyful lives and hurry up and get existence over with so they can go and be in non-existance with non-existent flying spaghetti monster sky God once and for all "

I would guess no one has ever asked God thingie this question.

@blahblah I am not sure what this ranting about scripture is all about. My understanding is that you are biasing Christian mystical tradition with Masonic didacticism and ritual rooted in Egyptian religion.

To look at Chaldean ritual and praxis is closer to the Judaic formulations due to the Babylonian exile from whence The Torah was formed.

Christianity, at its root, comes from Babylonian, and by association,Persia and the dark/light concepts of Zoroastrianism.

To quote Tom Waits “you know there ain’t no devil, only god when he’s drunk”

@Geoffrey51 what I see is simular in spirit or psychological meme that went out of Egypt, thru Israel into rome/Europe- catholic then crossing Atlantic into what is now USA

@Geoffrey51 you say, " ...Babylonian exile from whence The Torah was formed."

Am I finding the wrong Babylon exile 598?

King David verfied considered born about 1000 by is said to study Torah. Torah was developed prior to David if he studied it not 598 bc.

Babylonian Captivity, also called Babylonian Exile, the forced detention of Jews in Babylonia following the latter’s conquest of the kingdom of Judah in 598/7 and 587/6 BCE.
[britannica.com]

This discovery was sensational enough to make the front page of The New York Times. The inscription also shows that Israel and Judah were important kingdoms in the ninth century B.C., disproving the position of scholars who claimed Israel and Judah were never nations of significance and even disputed that there had ever been a united monarchy under David.
[ucg.org]

Born around 1000 BCE, David was the eighth son (and youngest) of Jesse, from the tribe of Judah. Like King Saul and King Solomon, David reigned for 40 years in one of the highest and most prosperous periods in Israel’s history - called by many, “The Golden Age” of Israel.

Below we shall attempt to associate David with the significance of the Feast of Weeks as the festival celebrating the giving of the Torah. [4] In the tradition, as cited in Talmud and Midrash, among King David’s many virtues his study of Torah is prominent. [biu.ac.il]

@Grahame I have enough compassion for the world. And empathy. It did not come from being exposed to religion. Religion tried to teach me that gay is a sin and makes them 'lesser' in the eyes of gawd. That tRump is good. That putting children in cages is fine. Religion tried to teach me everything I know is wrong is right.

@freeofgod
Which religion?

@skado All christian religions that I know of unless I've been misinformed. Southern baptists are the worst imo.

@freeofgod
I was raised Southern Baptist and they didn't teach any of what you're saying. Maybe times have changed. Were you raised inside a religion, or are you judging by what you observe from the outside?

@skado My family are all southern baptist. As I was for a brief, ten year, time. They say they are southern baptist but they are pentecostal with the exception of the womens hair and dress. That's the only thing they don't adhere to.

@freeofgod
I know there are lots of different "flavors". I never felt in sync with my Baptist upbringing, and left as soon as I was old enough to decide for myself. But they never taught horrible things; I just didn't understand the religious perspective. The invisible stuff and all.

@Grahame I can see your point about celibacy. I’ve read, and seen in documentaries, that priesthood attracts pedophiles, more so than making them. Some predators are situational pedophiles, meaning they prey on available victims, regardless of age/sex of the victim. Either way, it’s disgusting and wrong. Even worse that the church covered for their abuse.
Im sorry for what you experienced.