Pascal's Wager is a flawed argument... It is totally binary (assumes your particular version of god or no god) but there are competing claims for "god". For example...I don't believe in the Christian god, therefore according to the wager ...if I am right no harm, If I am wrong...eternal torment. But what if the Islamic version is right. Then double screwed. Anyway...one of the fallacies of Pascal's wager. Interesting that I have also seen it used in Islam.

And I think you're right...the whole thing doesn't make sense. A god who would set up the rules that way makes no sense. The morality of the god of the bible certainly blurs the line between god and the devil.

In reality I think it is just how the thing evolved....a hodge podge of human religious ideas that has enough stuff in there to keep the sheep inside the fence by having some sort of answer to the objections...however weak the answers are.

Can i ask what is, Pascal,s Wager. I also do not, think that the Bible makes sense. Its good not to let, things fester for to long. I try always never, let thing get that bad.

I completely understand your frustration. I went through that for a long time before I understood how strong the pull of indoctrination is.Like your friend I struggled for years with "but what if Hell is real", but through studying the history of religion it finally became ridiculous to me. The whole thing is ridiculous. The creator of the universe cares how and with whom we have sex. Half the population is supposed to be subservient to the other half? It's ok for a human being to own another human? We have to have a human sacrifice to be forgiven for being human?

The contradictions are severe and prolific, but to be honest if it wasn't this book, it would be another book or ideology that a) allowed control of others; and c) provided placebo-driven comfort to followers. The latter is what I found most hold onto They WANT to believe in the story.

If there ever was a Jesus, that the new testament speaks of, and, he were alive today a lot of your phone calls would be from him telling you he is your "Tech Support" and was going to take $800.00 out of your checking account if you didn't call him back and let him have access to your computer

Pascal felt that what do you have to loose? If you go with religion maybe you give up some earthly pleasures but if there is a god you win eternal blis. A small price to pay for eternity. What he doesn't recognize is that you have to be satisfied with what you see as a lie. Most of us here can not accept superstition and search for truth to fulfill our life. Other people understand this and find it easier to go with the lie.

Pascal's wager is a deeply flawed concept. Many comments here will explain why? in that is it far from a two-horse race and that you cannot pretend to bet. You either have belief and worship or you lose.
So short of playing a lucky dip lottery and picking one out of a hat. (That way it will be God's fault if you joined ISIS or became a Southcottian*) You could reject all religions and worship God in your own way? Many choose this path but even then the bet is rigged.
If you reject all religions then you pretty much have to reject most of the bible too. For all the reasons mentioned in your post. Plus what version/combination of them? Just the OT like the Jews? OT+ NT like most Christians? OT+ NT + Book of Morman? OT + NT + Koran?
Okay, so you can cherry-pick bits out that you like and use them like memes but that is effect calling God a liar.

Let us look at the returns. If I believe it? (most say that it is okay to have doubts but faith is a must) then you get to spend eternity with an entity that would torture or anyone else for not believing. Even though he/she/it makes that very hard, to say the least.

Better to walk away from the table and just live a good life. If you wrong then play the forgiveness card. If that is not valid then fuck it. Who would want an afterlife with a twat like that?

• [en.wikipedia.org]

Morals are subjective. Yet christians try to say they are objective, coming from god. If morals come from god, they would be subjective. If morals were objective, they would exist outside of any mind and no god would be needed.

Religion, you take the good with the bad, things could be much worse.

Anything created by man is flawed!

Just as nature is flawed and unpredictable!

Male and female have never been considered equal by the vast majority of past and present cultures.

In the past they were very few independent females, the ones that did exist were used or should we say allowed to show males were not all dominant over females!

That is why females were kept in the dark, not allowed to be educated or to be politically viable since mankind developed into the various cultures!

Females like slaves and minorities have been the fodder of the monarchy’s, Which now have morph into the wealthy and their corporations!

The wealthy use religion and it religious overtones to subdue the masses which are predominantly females and minorities!

The concept of Hell turns God into an extortionist.

For God, being all knowing, timeless and ever present, created man with full knowledge he would fall (or your definition fails and God is not all knowing, ever present and timeless).

Hell is thus like a shotgun held to everyone's head. God then says "IF you love me and Obey me, you won't get shot. It is your choice"

BUT, the shotgun is rigged to go off unless you comply

The Same God, created Hell for this fallen man as a predetermined fate.

a shotgun held to everyone's head and rigged to go off UNLESS you love God
and obey God.

And such a God model already knew whose brains would be cherry pie on the wall and whose would not, since before TIME BEGAN.

That makes your idea of salvation actually a violent extortion, if fact THE MOST violent extortion possible as it is eternal.

That would make your proposed God an Evil SOB.

To share with your close friend . . .
Invert Pascal

"What if all of Christianity is a Test like that of Job?

What if God is testing the population of the planet to see who is so despicable that they would paint themselves in his own son's innocent blood to escape Justice?

What if, at the final Judgement, those covered in the innocent blood of the Lamb are condemned for lack of morals and ethics because they scapegoated his innocent child rather than accept personal responsibility as his child tried to teach?

What if you have it backwards Christian?

How could you ever know with the perfect God conducting the test?"

The fear was designed for that very reason and is also the hardest of all things to get passed, since one is dealing with the imagination and the unknown. And the Christians say that the devil is evil. Ha!

This is the place to have a rant like that, and I bet you feel a lot better having let it out. Contradictions are the lifeblood of any religious system you want to study. Why, for one example, do religions of many stripes require a priest class to interpret the word of their respective gods? Why is killing certain people all right, while killing in general is not? Anyway, you have a sympathetic audience for your point of view here.

Pascal is based on eternal torture... fear.

My answer is would an all knowing, all seeing God... one that knows your heart... wouldn't know the only reason your acceptance is a spiritual double down in the first place and not from true belief?

Seems that's a selfish choice from fear and a spit in that gods face.

The morality of men who see women as mere chattels. Look at the fundamentalists in any of the three Abrahamic religions and women are purely there for breeding and looking after the home.

Perhaps the worst sin of Christianity is the hypocrisy espoused in its scriptures, which you touched on in your post above. And the second worst might be the self-righteous moralism it preaches to its followers. All that permits adherents to engage in evil, unkind, warlike, and cruel behaviors--which, of course, are NOT "Christ-like" behaviors. Alas, Christianity is actually one of the most unChristian religious belief systems on earth. And worse yet, it's all make-believe, designed to snare people who've been indoctrinated and lack critical thinking skills.

Well put and true

You are right. Religion typically teaches mythology as if it were reality, and it attacks reality as if it were a lie. Once one examines the evidence on both sides (as I have done for years), one must reject religion and the false "morality" of the Bible, and embrace science and sensible ethics.

And you are correct. This perfect god of the bible wanted to get humans started on the earth through a process called incest. If you believe Adam and Eve it could be no other way. Then he decided to destroy us because of sin. WTF is that? Later, through Noah and sons god once again would try to populate earth through incest once again. The apologists try to hide this and explain it away differently.

Then you have this all knowing perfect god trying to send you to a hell that he created just for you if you do not believe in him. These are two of the reasons I do not want to be singing his praises forever and ever.

For your answer on morality of an absolute god.
Moral is whatever the divinity thinks it is, the divinity is the definition of moral and not your opinion.
This way of thinking allows churches and priests get away with anything and forms the base for absurd commandments in any religion.
So if you accept religion you accept that the divinity can't be questioned and agreeing you or not, this being is the definition of correct, he is not only the creator and owner of the world but is also the being that keeps it running, it is futile to go against it. It is like a character of your toughs trying to go against you. For all purposes we are like virtual characters that YHWH programmed and is playing with, we can be reprogrammed, discarded or anything at his will and there is nothing we can do about it, it is useless to question or go against it.

And this works for any monotheistic/all powerful god religion.

But of course... IF you believe in this (i don't)