It's whatever the individual or group makes of it, I suppose. And what I'm saying is that our society is intent on making it our god, forever, here on Earth. How does that sound to you?

@GlyndonD Now we have the horse pushing the cart in a sense. While I agree that we are the wellspring from which deities arise, I don't think that they actually manifest in such a ham-handed fashion. That is to say that gods do not exit the realm of idealism. Governments might wish to be portrayed as the factories that turn dreams into reality. But we know otherwise. Taxes are not a form of worship. At worst, it's blackmail. At best, it's a oft misused shared resource. Like everything else, work in progress.

@Hicks66, it's not just taxes, but many people believe that the right place to get something done is the government. They would think that of anything their god is asked to do. But government turns out to be the worst place to get anything done. Blind faith counteracts that argument, however.

@GlyndonD To a point. Government at its best is a force multiplier of resources. Infrastructure, defense and justice are the things that the ruled forfeit to the rulers. Faith would lie in the ruled trusting their motivations. It seems that there is a rift between the ruled and rulers. Whether you call it a social contract or noblesse oblige, it seems to have been overshadowed by enlightened self-interest.It reflects how we treat one another out of the reach of retribution.

@Hicks66, there is much greater risk to the species with too much governmental control than there is with individual freedom. I think there is also risk of a permanent totalitarian state if our economy crashes, coupled with today's potential for surveillance of individuals and the public. We have to keep our vigilance such that that does not happen.

@GlyndonD Nothing artificial is permanent. How come things didn't go haywire during the Dirty Thirties? Are we even the same species as those of less than a century ago?

@Hicks66, totalitarianism didn't happen in the US. If the US goes down -- having been the bastion of individualism and capitalism -- I don't think it will rise again. And I think it will stick, as the people are now hooked on their social media, which can be easily controlled by a central authority. Dissent will not be given a chance to build into a viable opposition.

The joke's on you, then.

Gods don't exist, and we don't want one as our government.

Oh, I get it -- we'll soon be treated like cats by the government-god to be. Are you suggesting I'm using the wrong analogy?

@GlyndonD You don’t get it.

@yvilletom, you don't want to get it.

I'm totally stumped -- about where to start and where to finish...

@GlyndonD p.s. the King or Queen used to be considered a God, ever heard of Canute

@girlwithsmiles, this is true, as well as a number of socialist dictators. Nobody blinked when the term "Cult of Stalin" was commonly used. Funny how much resistance I'm getting from applying that genre to our own country. You'd think people could recognize this, become repulsed, and work to fight it. But no, gotta stick their heads in the sand and attack the messenger.

@GlyndonD we don’t share a Country I’ve never heard the term, ‘cult of Stalin’ but understand that many negative terms have been used to control progressives and keep people considered, ‘other’ in their place (i.e. discredited) throughout history.
I disagree with your post, but certainly try to take an active part in society: be it with what I consider positive purchasing; by voting; or campaigning and/ or supporting those that do. (P.s. I’ve also been a public servant).

@girlwithsmiles, you served yourself -- get off your pedestal.

@GlyndonD enjoy bowing to your god lols. I try and remain humble, but bow to few!

@girlwithsmiles, take advantage while you still can.

Then bow to your raccoon in addition to your government-god.

@GlyndonD I don't bow to a critter, a human, or a "government god" whatever the f*#k that is lol.

@Bobbyzen, then you put yourself at risk of being exterminated.

@GlyndonD We are all connected. We can be selfish, we stumble, we’re imperfect. But the bottom line is we don’t do harm. You are trying to foment discord based on some pseudo nonsensical (as it isn’t even a real nonsensical) posit. You will be blocked with you next negative or annoying utterance.

@Bobbyzen, I'm just trying to wake people up that they are participants in a new state-sponsored religion, that's all.

@GlyndonD Well all righty then..

@GlyndonD “New state-sponsored religion” lol. There’s an old document that created this government, which itself erased, marginalized, terrorized, murdered millions of Natives and Africans. I see you’re just catching up. Welcome to the party.

@Bobbyzen, it will be worse, as this time, it won't just be outnumbered groups, but most all of us.

@GlyndonD Tell Native Americans that your little anxiety over Big Godly Government will be worse that their 500-year genocide. You have no clue dude. And the enslavement of Africans and their 300-year endurement of relegation as subhumans (in America mind you, not in many other parts of the world where being black or brown doesn’t lead to a genocide or disenfranchisement, rather this is primarily American nastiness under the government you, a privileged white man, are so afraid of, gasp!). I’m playing melancholy tunes on the violin just for you.

@Bobbyzen, racist! You ignore what totalitarian governments have done to Caucasian ethnic groups. By the millions. Official slavery to the state.

It's not about race; it's about the entire species this time. Does that make you feel better? Finally, equality?

@GlyndonD Learn the definition of racist before you use it. I’m blocking you in five minutes for your ignorance and divisiveness.

Thank you for volunteering the greatest analysis your mind can deliver.

You describe government perfectly, and the agents/priests of our government/god.

@GlyndonD You could convert your "proof" into a standup comedy routine

@PBuck0145, or an epitaph.

The fact that government has rights greater than mine.

@GlyndonD
Going to answer my two questions?

@xenoviewyes; see my proof above.

@GlyndonD
I see you evaded my questions. So the real answer is no to both of my questions.

@xenoview, no, the real answer is in the original post, and in replies to other commentators. Read for content.

@GlyndonD
You have not provided any objective evidence that a god is real. I see you have evaded my two questions again. There are two answers to them, yes or no.

@xenoview, I see you still have not accepted any objective evidence that I have provided. And you are evading the issue once again. Typical attitude of the indoctrinated.

See you in church...

@GlyndonD
What objective evidence have you given for anyone to test and get the same results.

@xenoview, quite a bit. Check it out.

@GlyndonD
All you have is subjective evidence, it all comes from your mind. Do you know what objective evidence is?

@xenoview,yes I do. It is all that is rejected in this post.

Talk is cheap. Government proves its point.

I'm describing how others think of their god, and do things for their god, which exactly describes how they think of and do things for their government. The two are interchangeable, except for so-called atheists, who do not believe in metaphysical gods, but think of their government as a physical god.

Talk about a mess!

You'll understand unsustainability when the goverment's debt throws us into a depression, and worse. Have fun with THAT god!

@GlyndonD Who put us into that debt, on a personal level? What God? The government is not God, the government is the people whether or not they take the power they have into their own hands. We do not vote in our own interest and so we get what we vote for and bitch about it. Would work much better if we had an educational system that worked to educate instead of dumbify.

@dalefvictor, the government is independent of voters. It doesn't change. A juggernaut that has a mind of its own. It will survive and expand until it's fully taken over. Not a fun world!

Government has become God. And what it will offer in the future is a world of slavery and mind control. And a ruling elite that controls and profits off the rest of humanity. When you have the chance to join the the Party, take it!

@GlyndonD Did you not notice the abundant differences between god and government that I just pointed out?

I'm not very confident in your powers of seeing the future. There once was a world of slavery and mind control. In the medieval kingdoms, most people were slaves to their lords and their minds were controlled by the church. The ruling elites (kings, lords, and bishops) did profit off of the rest of humanity. What ended that slavery and mind control? Democratic government. Why do we live in a mostly peaceful and prosperous world now? Democratic government.

Which party are you referring to?

@RoboGraham, your denial is reinforced by struggling to find the differences, rather than accepting the similarities.

After our economy crashes, the totalitarians will step in and take over. That will be the end of history.

Your response is rational, factual, and correct -- unlike the gobbledegook of GlyndonD'

@wordywalt Thank you. Something tells me he won't see it that way. I wonder what sort of nonsense he will come up with next?

@GlyndonD It wasn't a struggle at all. The differences are readily apparent.

I haven't seen you describe any similarities though.

@RoboGraham, you refuse to see what you don't want to see.

@GlyndonD Is this some kind of riddle? You haven't shown me anything.

All you have said is that the government is superior and can make rules and punish us. Duh. How is the government god?

@RoboGraham, it is god, the same as you are god to your cat.

@GlyndonD It's god like a parent is god to a small child. It's god like a prison guard is god to an inmate. It's god like judge is god to a defendant. Wait no those things aren't gods, just people who have authority. Like how a government is just a collection of people who hold power and authority.

Give it up dude. You have no ground to stand on.

@RoboGraham, there is Catholicism, but there is no god behind it, right? The problem is all the things that Catholics do while trying to please and obey their god that is the problem. That affects us non-believers, and we don't want that. Similarly, we don't want a society full of believers in a government that has almost all the properties of a god. That world will resemble a theocracy, and that world has real power behind its authority. Do you want to live in that kind of theocracy?

Beware what you wish for, as you might just get it.

@GlyndonD When did I wish for a theocracy? Of course I don't want religious extremist in government, that's why I advocate for secular candidates.

Catholicism is a religion so yes there is an imaginary god behind it. And yeah the stupid things they do while following their religion unfortunately effects everyone. That's a bit irrelevant to our current discussion though. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not government is god, which it is not.

@RoboGraham, sheesh, of course government isn't a god. But people are treating it as one, and that is having the same effect as a theocracy. And that's the problem -- not any non-existent god is a problem, but it is the people who are worshipping and acting on behalf of their non-existent god that is the problem. Except, you can't fight or outlaw this theocracy via the 2nd Amendment because everyone is denying the analogy, and thus the worshipping continues, even when you confront them with their worshipping and giving government a god-like status. Heck, I just confronted avowed atheists with this analogy, who should be able to identify this behavior that they are so adamantly against, and be repulsed by it, and yet they angrily disavow the theory and call me every name in the book.

And this "theocracy" has all the force -- disciples-- behind it that it needs to succeed in establishing a permanent totalitarian state. Who cares if it's a theocracy or not?

That's the message I'm trying to get across. We've got to slay the false god. Libertarian agnostics can slay it outright, and religious libertarians can slay the false god, like they believe Moses once did. We have to do it now before it's too late.

@GlyndonD You began by saying- "That entity exists. that Entity is the Government. Government is our one and only God, and, as Government, indeed, exists, then God, indeed, exists."

Now you say of course government isn't a god. Great, that's what I've been trying to get across to you so mission accomplished.

I don't want theocracy either. Vote for secular people not religious ones. booyakasha

@RoboGraham,, the problem is not if I believe government to be a god, but that the general population thinks and behaves as if its government is a god. I want to wake up agnostics and atheists who have turned to government to be their god, because that ain't right, either.

@GlyndonD As far as I can tell, People aren't doing that so you can rest easy.

@RoboGraham, if people ever stop thinking of their government as some kind of a god, I'll rest easy.

No, I'm trying to get supposed agnostics to realize that our government has as its ideal all the characteristics of a god, and that they are behaving exactly like a cult, and that that is a bad thing.

@GlyndonD Spoken like a true Republican.
Or Anarchist.
Ever hear of Ronald Raegan? You'd have loved him. Said the same thing.

@Storm1752, do Republicans and anarchists sound like me? I wonder, "Why?" And I remember Ronald Reagan. He was a Republican, wasn't he?

@GlyndonD Yes, you sound like a libertarian anarchist.
You mean you're not?

@Storm1752, I'm not an anarchist. That's Fantasyland. Kinda like believing a government can best take care of us.

Well said, Frank. But not only religion, but why do I have to live under your totalitarian government?

@GlyndonD Where do you live?

@ronnie40356, USA.

@GlyndonD I'll agree we're approaching totalitarian in USA, and lots of people in government right now would like that, especially if it were an oligarchy and/or theocracy. But not there yet.

@ronnie40356, we've got to wake up before it's too late. But agnostics sure aren't waking up, are they?

@GlyndonD I'm an atheist, and like pretty much everyone else including agnostics think that you're exagerating the situation. Evil people can take control of government, they have before and they'll keep trying to do it again. We're not there yet and I wouldn't equate that with god/gods anyway.

@ronnie40356, I don't think I'm exaggerating. Look how the flock defends their god. Religious fervor.. I can't tell the difference between them and evangelicals. They will defend their god to the bitter end, and attack the infidel to no end.

@GlyndonD You are exaggerating, and you're wrong. Thats my opinion. Its your opinion also that god is government and that's your opinion. You're welcome to it, as you've seen a lot of people have different opinions. Good luck with it.

@ronnie40356, no, I'm saying your government is your god, and religion. I don't want it to become mine.

@ronnie40356 , GlyndonD - maybe you guys should listen to some nostalgic Zappa? At least you aren't believers in imaginary friends, government is real, god is a figment of the imagination but fascism is on the march although not yet in control.

@Surfpirate "Don't go where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow"

Maybe. But if government declares it sensical, then it's not nonsense.

Aye

@OwlInASack Of course you know that you will go to hell where the beer is warm and flat and all the strippers have V.D. May you be touched by his noodly apendage. Ramen!

@OwlInASack I'm hearing the hand clap horsey hooves now and cracking up!

@OwlInASack That brought back a few good memories! LOL.

Thanks. I've got more...

I'm not talking about you, but humanity in general.

@GlyndonD , witless

@heymoe2001, hey, give yourself some credit.

Superceded by the 16th Amendment, which gave the government the right to steal from anyone by force.

@GlyndonD Stealing is not the only power.

No prob!

Now, get back to your prayer.

I guess you wouldn't have a problem with a conventional theocracy then, would you? Or living under a totalitarian regime? After all, the government is the people, and that's just fine, right?

The lazy are the people who sit idly by and let the government assume more and more power, like what happened a hundred years ago with the 16th Amendment. Look at what has happened to your government since then. And the "progress" continues, until we have a totalitarian government which we will never escape.

@GlyndonD just quit it, people don't vote for totalitarian governments and theocracy is explicitly forbidden in the US Constitution. We vote for our politicians, we slack off we get a Trump. Everything depends on the involvement of the people, those like you cause bad government by not participating, blaming your issues on everything but the cause, yourself.

@clarkatticus, we are becoming more totalitarian every year. It will become complete once your government destroys its economy due to the debt it is accumulating. No more elections after that.

@GlyndonD vote for Bernie or Warren, I am. Our biggest threat is the Republican party and the people that vote for it. They will exist no matter what the circumstances, dictatorship, anarchy, oligarchy, theocracy-it doesn't matter, we are the majority. Vote.

@clarkatticus, Bernie or Warren getting elected will cause bondholders to lose all hope that the budget deficit will be lessened, leading to a terminal loss of confidence in the credit of the United States, and a subsequent crash in the bond market. A virtual default on the debt will ensue, destruction of the currency, and a monumental economic depression that will lead to a full, permanent, totalitarian state. From this, I think you'd be better able to identify the virtual theocracy I am describing.

@GlyndonD wow, where did you get that? The bond market will tank for sure but Bernie and Liz will do nothing to increase the deficit, like all modern Democrats they don't start unfunded programs, unlike the GOP. The bond market will rebound, this time with reasonable, predictable rates as will the stock market. We are not going communist. Right now there is a worry around the world that the US is again heading for a major recession, the object of Democratic Socialism is to regulate the market into lower margins and steady predictable gains, distributing the wealth and control back to the middle class.

Earth to @clarkatticus: When you are in favor of Medicare for All, open borders, forgiving student debt, and the Green New Deal, the deficit will skyrocket and bondholders will flee the bond market en masse, triggering a collapse in the bond market, and then our economy.

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing.

@GlyndonD yeah, believe what you will, we are 23rd in healthcare in the world and the only modern nation without universal healthcare. we can no longer compete with nations that educate their children at high levels for free and the Green New Deal is the future, get used to it all. All plans are FUNDED by cuts to the military budget and fees to the financial industry-just like other nations.

@clarkatticus, we are now 5th in the world in debt/GDP. Dream on.

@GlyndonD have you ever actually invested in the market before?

@clarkatticus, yup. Been investing for decades. Trying to figure out where I need to shift my wealth to best survive a great, great depression. Not an easy task.

Anyone with a brain.

@GlyndonD Whatever.

@Gwendolyn2018 I made a feeble effort to unwind his logic, but since the whole thing was obviously nonsense, I never made it to the end of the paragraph.

@GeorgeRocheleau, on that, we can agree -- feeble, indeed!