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I wonder how many churches will close for good due to covid-19. I know of many businesses that have shut their doors for good. The reason I ask is Many churches that had been very strong, at one time, with lots of people were on the brink of shutting the doors for a lack of interest before covid-19. I wonder what the affects on religion will be in the United States.

Please refrain from posting things like "I hope they all get covid-19" and so forth. This is not about wishing anyone harm or disruption to their daily lives. It is smiply a question about our future.

DavidLaDeau 8 May 17
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1

Many. Some already have. I have two cousins who are ministers, and they've already seen consolidations. As operating budgets decline, staff are laid off and consolidated with neighboring churches, then the physical plant is not attended to and eventually a church must close its doors. The majority of Protestant churches in this country operate on a shoestring budget with fewer than 100 members each to support them. When large public gatherings are again the norm, many members will need to find themselves a new church to attend and congregation to join.

One poison for another.

7

There are some believers who will see this pandemic as their god's wrath, and
will become even more devout.
There are others who will have this pandemic be the thing that leads them further away from religion.
Businesses open and close. They are always susceptible to whatever is happening in the world and in their communities.

Everything about this life is a crapshoot.
The only thing that is remotely predictable about ANY of this is that most humans don't learn from history.

4

Sadly, very sadly, I tend to think that though some sects of religions, world-wide, may die out post -Covid, like the Hydra of myth there will be many, many more 'heads' to rise up again and replace them.
Religions, imho, are like the old Aussie saying about Flies, i.e. " You kill one of them and a hundred others turn up for the funeral."

4

There may be fewer than we might think since they are eligible for government stimulus loans.
[guidestone.org]

Where the fuck can any government get off with giving Tax-Payers money to Churches, etc, that rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars and even MILLIONS of dollars year after year but NEVER pay taxes?
It IS a well known and documented fact that the Catholic Church IS the Wealthiest Organization in the whole world with only the LDS Church running a very close second and Organised Crime coming very very close behind.

3

Maybe without their weekly drug dose they will start to see some reason and join the club of the sane.

We can only Hope and Hope always springs eternal.

3

What effects in the United States?
Not a clue. I would blindly guess a minimal decrease in attendance as this virus kills more older folks. The pews around here are largely filled with silver haired theists. I anticipate many of the older folks will leave a great deal of their money to their church so, even with declining members, I don't foresee a decline in fiscal/power. Younger parishioners are generally not as wealthy as their older counterparts but I don't anticipate this pandemic cleaning house.

3

I think there are quite a few rural Methodist churches here in Alabama that the conferences are wanting to close. I expect this will mark the last chapter for several of them. I think some that have already "closed" still have annual reunions and maybe Decoration Day to tend the cemetery.

3

Many will close, however, those that continue to cling to their delusions will return to the basic home gatherings as the early Christians used to do.

2

I don't think it's just churches that may never come back. There are a lot of social activities people are involved in to pass the time but that aren't super compelling and just getting out of the habit of going may create enough inertia for people not to return -- not to mention ongoing Covid concerns. For example, pre-Covid, I played cards at the senior center every Saturday morning with a half dozen or fewer other old farts but we weren't a close-knit group and I tended to eat too many sweets for my own good. I don't know if I'll bother going back when it reopens, not least because I think that's exactly the worst possible place to go (a room full of vulnerable old people) until there's a vaccine or effective treatment for Covid, or both. My region of upstate NY is in phase 1 reopening and I could see them restarting in a month or two but I don't think I'd go back for a lot longer than that, just based on the risk factor alone.

As for churches specifically, yes some are on life support. We are rare attendees at a unitarian / universalist congregation (they don't like to call themselves a "church" as they are post-Christian in nature) because they accept atheists & agnostics. Their central governing body is recommending their meetings not resume until May of NEXT year. There again, making a not-very-compelling activity downright moribund, although, hopping onto a Zoom virtual meeting is at least easier then dressing up and driving downtown to church. A church like that might figure they'd be ahead to sell all their physical buildings and remain virtual. Most however won't want to do that, and will try to keep going. I think a percentage will fail, similar to the number of businesses that won't be back. Maybe 20% of small rural churches? Wouldn't surprise me.

2

The situation in the UK is very different from the US. Churches here have been in decline for many years. Whilst as an atheist I cannot help but indulge in a little schadenfreude. On a personal and practical level, it can make me a bit sad.
I have a lovely old lady customer who plays the organ for St Barnabas in Penny Lane. It is where Paul McCartney sang in the choir and where his brother was married. The place was struggling before this crisis and may well not survive. Also, many of the food banks that so many people are now so reliant upon are organized by churches and their volunteers.
We seem to have a much better relationship with our god botherers than you yanks. Whereas your sky pilots lean towards the right, ours tend to lean towards if not the left then the suffering. There was a news item this week about from the Archbishop of Canterbury talking about mental health. Far from proclaiming that Jesus protects all believers. He talked about his own depression and how much we will have to deal with when this thing is over

Churches do have many services that are great if religion is left out. Such as food banks etc, It may be very well worth a thread to discuss how we might fill in the gaps. It could be a great oppertunity to shownothers that we can be good without god. The problem is atheist traditionally do not have that kind of organization.

@DavidLaDeau I know a few atheists friends that volunteer for a churches social work like food-bank or soup kitchens. They do not seem to complain about too much god stuff.

@273kelvin My wife volunteered for such a food bank but those kinds of things are seldom run, at least without strings attached, by evangelicals. This was a joint effort of the Episcopalian and Presbyterian congregations. It was fantastic, a nice eating space, quality live music like in a nice restaurant, everyone welcome, low-key services provided to those who ask (help with finding a place to live, rent assistance, etc). That would be the dreaded "social gospel" to most evangelicals, they wouldn't do it. To them, Jesus is the answer to everything, and solves everyone's problems, if they have enough faith.

@mordant There seems to be a broad shift to the left from established churches here. I think that they want to ditch being seen as "The Conservative party at prayer". All that leads to is empty pews and old ladies. All of the passion is on the left, and tbh so should natural Christian values. Jesus and the govt whomever they may be, was always a marriage of convenience.
I personally have no problem with the established CofE atm. They seem to be allies in a world that does not give a shit for his fellow man

2

I hope those one-man and small businesses will refrain. The church or govt didn't come to their rescue while the Vatican holds onto its purse strings and gold vaults. The church however seems to be sitting pretty with govt assistance.

Small businesses do not actually include the smallest businesses according to the government and so they get no bailouts. When I was a child my parents had a hotel chain of about 7 hotels. When the Saving and loan scam happened they froze my parents accounts and shut down the entire chian over night. It was the banks fault and my family lost everything. We were too small to bother with while mega corporatiins survived due to bail outs.

My girlfriend has been a massage theropist for 25 years. There will be no helping her and she may not be able to survive as she has to put hands on people.

@DavidLaDeau I hear where you're coming from. Plenty people I know are in the same or situation😉

2

Products of churches have long shelf-life. They don't require much storage space, in spite of cranial limitations of consumers. Even if a church mortgage is foreclosed, inventories are safe. When income shrinks, it's temporary because as Barnum famously said: "There's a sucker born every minute." Demand might even increase in tough times. As much money as Barnum acquired, he never needed more than a collection of tents. Churches only need one tent for collections and they're better off than Barnum with no animals to cage and feed, no barkers, side-show freaks or 'hoochi coochie' girls to house and feed. Churches don't have to keep musicians or other performers employed. One size fits all! A good preacher can out ring master or side-show bark the best in any circus and keep packin' em in!

Church customers are also easier to please. They take their bullshit and swindling straight-up and pay for it near the end of the show; no need for tickets. Hell, they're PART of the show! Sometimes they just send money without even showing up. Any church can reopen in a tent or rented store front. Worrying about how or where 'men of the cloth' are going to propagate is like worrying about where a bovine is going to defecate. Let not thy soul be troubled.

It is erroneously thought that Americans are the largest consumers of energy. Combine what we pay for consuming all the forms of bullshit and sexual fantasy, and energy looks like a curbside lemonade stand. Bullshit and sex, like sand and salt water, are some of the most plentiful things on the face of the earth. You'd think, as plentiful as they are, people would figure out that there's no reason to pay for them. But no, not humans, especially males (the duller of the species) because reason has nothing to do with it. It takes the human animal to turn bullshit and sex, for all of their abundance, into the most expensive and highly prized commodities around.

Churches, prostitution and the pornography industry (I repeat myself) take-in BILLIONS; not counting Madison Avenue, labor and trade unions, insurance companies, political parties, computer model "science" and mainstream "news" media. What are the two most important ingredients for any movie to make money? They can have special effects, 3-D, blazing sound effects; you name it! Without sex and bullshit there's no story. No story = no box office.

When was the last time anyone ever encountered an evangelist, priest, rabbi, imam, pimp or insurance salesman who didn't have a huge story with lots of promises? Churches are the oldest racket; the protection (salvation) racket. Without them setting the example, it wouldn't have occurred to prostitutes to go into competition by actually delivering something a lot closer to Paradise.

Excellent post! Well said. This being said, P.T. Barnium actually did not say that though. [medium.com]

2

Not enough.

2

As the churches like to say fearfully, before the end will come a great falling away.
Certainly the seeds of doubt will have been sowed in the fertile minds of the young, and will probably bloom and bare the fruit of apostasy (for want of a better word) over the next couple of decades.

2

great question. hard to speculate on it. of course there is going to be that bunch that thinks god is going to protect them. there's some who think stupid doesn't fall under gods graces, so they're just gonna pray at home for a while and not congregate. there are some who may realize god ain't helping and just walk away. And a few who figure they'll just bring thier guns and protest their way into heaven. seems quite likely that lost jobs would affect contributions adversely tho. interesting

2

The mega churches will thrive. They're evangelicals in Sunbelt areas with well-off, upwardly mobile suburbanites.
These 'churches' are actually mini-conglomerates, and spin out 'franchises' the same way as Burger King or Home Depot.
Not your parents' neighborhood church.

Yeah, American mega evangilist are now being banned in some countries, that is at least a stsrt.

@DavidLaDeau SMART countries.

2

They got a bailout from Congress. So many will survive

If they were not supported by the communities they need not be supported by the government.

It would have had to be an illegal bailout.

@ADKSparky The govt bailouts supposed to be going to the needy. Some of these wretches own retirement villages which income is tax free too!!!!
I know of a church minister here who goes to USA plenty times for funding for whatever!!! He and his family own service stations and personal property!!!
That church has shady dealings!!!! ...and a huge church building tooooooo! Mega tithe envelopes and collection.

@DavidLaDeau I agree

2

Not nearly enough for my preferences.

2

Some may close for good, but I don’t think COVID will have a lasting overall effect to religious folks.

1

Well, from talking with my mom, their Baptist church is struggling. And I wonder what something like this virus will do to it. This is a small town in Missouri. Population around 1200. I know most of the folks going were elderly, and while

I am sure there will be a spike of people attending once things calm down. But I am guessing many of those people will avoid going when they feel sick, or there are rumors of someone who normally attends being ill. (And man, word gets around in a small town!) Fears they didn't have before. Before, if you were feeling a little under the weather, you might still go, just tell people to not get too close! Now days people in their 70s and 80s would be seriously offended you were in their church potentially infecting others. Awareness for stuff like that is not going to go away. Never ever.

Young people are juggling to many jobs to attend! My oldest wouldn't attend because he wants to be already sitting in his car, ready to make a brunch delivery as soon as church is over! So he can make some money!!! Too many in the gig economy scraping by to go toss money in the collection plate.

1

I hope getting used to not going to church during the shut down will make people realize it really is not something they need to do.

Me too! Of course God does not answer prayers any better at his "house".

1

I guess it depends how well they invested their shekels 😊 some churches own a bit of prime real estate.

1

Certainly many businesses will go bust. The larger,more efficient will survive. Capitalism at work, but churches ?. They are not really in competition with one another so most will probably carry on as before.

1

In Australia many churches are receiving a govt payment called 'Jobkeeper' to keep staff going. However, this scheme is due to end in September and churches remain closed. I'm aware of some clergy being retrenched even now. So many are now unemployed and so offertory income is way down for many churches.
In the US, I imagine some churches will have to close due to lack of funds for the same reason.
As for long term effects, it's too early to tell. I'm just not sure what to expect.

1

I imagine there’ll be a bit of restructuring, but churches on the the whole are doing okay. As the past few decades have passed we’ve seen a steady decline in religiosity but almost all of those are people who rarely or never went to church. The people and families who regularly attended church hasn’t fluctuated all that much.
[pewforum.org]

Source:

Very interesting. I just saw a pew poll that indicated the opposite. I wish I could remember where I saw it!

@DavidLaDeau You need to be careful with the language. If the poll showed stats on low church attendance, you need to then look to see how many more churches have sprung up in America. That’s the real problem, the business model is extremely tempting and it’s super easy to open a church. Churches are over saturated for the number of church attendees.

@DavidLaDeau it was the one by Hemant Mehta.

@DavidLaDeau here it is

[friendlyatheist.patheos.com]

@TimeOutForMe Thank You I kinda felt like an idiot sighting....nothing! It had nothing to do with getting old....hurmp! clears gravelly throat

@DavidLaDeau You're most welcome 👍

@TimeOutForMe I suspect that the drop seen in that poll has more to do with a willingness of people to come out of the closet. Not identifying oneself as Christian has slowly lost the stigma it once had thanks to people like Madalyn Murray O'Hair. As the Atheist movement gained acceptance in society the numbers of “nones” grew and will continue to grow. However, we will see it plateau in the next few years. Core believers will hold their beliefs for much longer.

@DavidLaDeau
@paul1967
Another link showing millennials leaving religion and not coming back.

[fivethirtyeight.com]

@paul1967 In the wors of times people that are religious get SUPER RELIGIOUS, this can be dangerous.

1

Based on your "our future" you must be a "church going entity".... you scared?

Religion affects everyone includeing those who do not wish it. If you have any doubts you can find people loosing their heads to the religious on the internet. Theist who kill people for thier "beliefs" do scare me. Any more questions?

@davidladeau one more question.... Are you scared of atheists that kill people for their beliefs?

@GipsyOfNewSpain Yes I am. The difference is athiest do not murder people in the name of no god. Theist murder people in the name of their gods.

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