Why Atheists Are Not as Rational as Some Like to Think
"just because you believe in evidence-based, scientific research – which is subject to strict checks and procedures – doesn't mean that your mind works in the same way."
All humans can be irrational at times....it doesn’t depend on whether we believe in a divine creator or not. However to be consistently irrational is the domain of only the religious.
I don’t think the author of this piece is using anything other than his own personal opinions and quoting from “latest cognitive research” and “emerging research”, without further detailing which papers he is quoting from, is completely valueless. We already know that it’s not as simple as atheists being rational and believing in science one one hand, and religious people being irrational and not believing in science on the other, because most religious people believe in science but also believe in god.
What I think it shows is not a lack of rationality in the religious, but an ability to override the rational and accommodate the irrational too...as though they are able to accommodate both ideas in different compartments in their brains. This is the difference between believers and non-believers in my opinion..we the non-believers cannot suspend disbelief in the supernatural to allow a belief in god to sit together with that disbelief.
The term I like to embrace and apply is scientific method. Our ability to postulate and our inability to measure things are also major factors why many think what they do.
Combined with the fact that most language used throughout history is highly abstract, and non-referrential; and there will be confusion and disagreement.
This is the history of Humans on Earth. You need look no further than the opinionated positions of most in this thread.
That atheists may be as irrational as believers is hardly news. On this very website, I have been upbraided by anti-vax'ers, anti-GMO'ers, pro-Trump'ers and flat Earthers who otherwise appear to claim a 'rational' doubt as to the existence of a supreme being! We have all heard of countless examples of brilliant scientists who have remained persons of faith, and may even assert a 'personal relationship' with their god. If such a dichotomy is possible, why would anyone be surprised by the reverse--i.e., that a nonbeliever might be capable of irrationality?
I would lump anyone who believes the proclamations of politicians on either side, in with flat-earthers for sure. Not just people who like trump.
I would not lump people who have questions about the vaccine industry or certain vaccines (as the cdc reports the recall of several on their page and There are proven cases of harm) , genetic modification done at the non-farming level in labs(as some changes have unknown effects on ecosystems).
But I get it. Certain people here lean far left, and everyone else is dumb.
@BryanLV There is an attitude that is not left or right leaning and is akin to an article of faith that connects them: Anti-science.
The anti-vax’ers who refuse to vaccinate their children against measles and accept crackpot notions regarding autism; the anti-GMO’ers who, without a shred of evidence, would deny a starving planet drought tolerant crops; the pro-Trumpers who follow their leader in rejecting public health guidance and insisting on their right to be spreaders in the midst of a pandemic; and the flat Earthers who are, well, just plain insane.
They all deny fact-based evidence, not only in rejecting science, but attacking it and even those who practice or defend it. And worst of all, they selfishly seek to impose their madness on others.
oh I don't think human beings are rational. Emotions are involved in our decision making. Morals and ethics arise from emotional response. The challenge is to continually check our confirmation bias and be willing to really listen to arguments different from our own.
I still think it is more rational to listen to the voice of experts, accept the latest in scientific research but be humble enough to alter previous opinions when evidence is refuted. It is more rational to accept evidence based research than to accept so called #truths# that are based on nothing more than hearsay.
@MissKathleen And why Mr Spock is not!
Where, exactly, is the logic and rationality in believing that a Supreme Entity that no-one has either seen nor heard from, etc, created absolutely everything out of absolutely nothing with just a mere word as it says in the bible?
And yet Sciences, Geology,Cosmology, etc,etc, in particular, have clearly shown and proven time and time again that the biblical Creation is nothing more than a fairy tale turned into a myth then turned into a system of belief.
The normal, and I mean normal, human brain is quite logical and rational under normal circumstances when it is permitted to work WITHOUT the adverse influences of such things as Superstition, religious dogmas and tenets.
Yes, we are often governed by our emotions but even then the brain tends to logical and reasoning during those events, etc.
Yes, we are often governed, also, by our innate, inherent desires as well but even then the brain tends toward the logical and reasoning side of things in the greater majority of human beings.
We are HUMAN, we are faulty, we are NOT perfect but we can and are, more often than not, very logical, rational and reasoning beings for the most part sans the adverse influences as I mentioned previously.
@Fred_Snerd Well, knock me down with a feather, @Fred-Snerd has AGREED with me here and YET his posted article claims differently, wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles.
Don't get down off of your bicycle, Fred-Snerd, I'll pick up your pump for you, after all it IS the logical, rational and decent thing for any human to do for another is it not?
@Fred_Snerd No I don't think we are rational and reasoning beings for the most part. It is extremely challenging to be open-minded and make unbiased decisions. To do it we have to be aware of the evolutionary bias devises that humans have developed to make life easier or more comfortable or self-serving.
Here is a list of cognitive biases. Are you prepared to self-reflect on your own biases? [psychologytoday.com]
@Fred_Snerd IMHO, it would take more room on this site/group to give my opinion on the context of that article than either I or other members would care to read.
Your 'reasoning,' for want of a better terminology, Fred-Snerd is imo, as convoluted as is a Water tank made from Corrugated Iron.
@Fred_Snerd Ever bothered to read or watch the news reports, Fred, WE ARE destroying the very planet upon which we live.
@Fred_Snerd Well Fred, in case it has not yet 'dawned upon you' people do NOT always see things in exactly and precisely the same way as you do, hence the differences and Viva la Difference.
@Fred_Snerd No, not sarcastic but in my honest opinion quite obtuse though.
So many studies and so little time to read them all but on average I would say it takes a little bit more brain power to realize that religion and deities are a load of horse pucky. Check out the link that shows that religious people are religitards compared to Atheists.
[bigthink.com]
@Fred_Snerd Nothing cunning about putting forth data that contradicts the hypothesis that was put forth. That's the darned scientific method/peer review thing popping up again, so annoying to believers.
@Fred_Snerd I get the feeling you didn't read the article I shared.
This is not news. Atheists are humans first and, despite how we would like to think of ourselves, we are ruled by emotion and, often unconscious, biases. I can't think of a particular source right now, but there has been plenty written about this subject. Maybe not specifically about Atheists, but about how we are not nearly as rational as we think we are. David Eagleman touches on this in Incognito: The Secret LIves of the Brain.
All you have to do is watch two people talk about politics to see how irrational one can be. And if you want to see irrational Atheists, just read some of the comments on this site. There is plenty of woo.
Atheism simply means being in a state without god(s) and that is all it means.
every other belief, contention, ideology etc is simply down to the individual and has nothing to do with atheism.
There is magical thinking, which is irrational. Renouncing to magical thinking is as rational as an atheist needs to be. The scientific endeavor requires evidence and rejects magical thinking. I have no idea what do you mean when you say that the mind of an atheists does not work that way. That is precisely the way it works. Anyone accepting magical thinking is just not an atheist.
Critical thinking, and acceptance of facts have not a thing to do with a belief in a god, or gods.
When applied, the Scientific method works for itself.
That said, there are many on the God, vrs, no God debate that both make some points in other fields. The belief, or Lack of belief in a god, or gods really has no bearing on other things like for say, Biology, Chemistry, Maths, and the sort. There are quite a few Brilliant minds that truly believe in Jesus or another, yet have a full grasp on their field of Science.
A few names come to mind in this for me. Where Richard Dawkins, and Laurence Krause, are not just well respected in their non- god beliefs, they are both suitably Giants in their respected fields os Science as well.
On the other side of that coin, there are some like Francis Collins, and Kenneth R. Miller. Who are also giants in their respected fields of science, yet are Full on believers in said God.
All names I mentioned are said "evidence based" in their core. yet hold different beliefs.
Trying to group people as, well they think this, so they must think that as well is just silly.
JMHO.
Ooh! Another Atheist-vs.-Agnostic thread! THAT never gets old.
To my dear agnostic brothers, sisters, and others: I respect you no less (nor more) than my fellow atheists. Yours is a respectable position. So is mine.
Atheists are individuals that may only have this in common but differ on other questions. Not every atheist is adept at applying the scientific method just like religionists who do not apply the same standards to their religion that they do when criticizing other religions.
What a load of absolute bollocks. In my considered opinion.
Completely correct! Bollucks is the right word! Try to publish an article titled with: "Why Religious People are Not as Peaceful or Smart as you Think" and wait for the threats!
@Fred_Snerd No. Obviously I cannot speak for anyone else but none of the above applies to me as far as I am aware. I do not follow any charasmatic inividuals although I enjoy reading the likes of Dawkins,Hitchens, Onfray etc. I have my own thoughts and opinions and am not influenced by "group think". I did not have a "Eureka moment". I have had time to read widely and investgate the options to come to a considered decision.
The obove may apply to others who call themselves atheists or are called atheists by theologians but not to me.
@Fred_Snerd It is to me but obviously I cannot speak for anyone else.
@Fred_Snerd Probably not but in the current pandemic many religious people are being totally irrational in ignoring sensible guidelines and many have paid with their lives.
Lois Lee makes a living from questioning atheists ?. She has deduced that children with religious parents are more likely to be religious whilst those from a non religious background are less likely to be so.
Wow ground breaking stuff. I could have told her that for nothing.
First thing is the words "believe in science" is an idiotic phrase. Science deals in finding facts we can use in reality. People use beliefs to try to explain what they do not understand, which is a very poor way to learn. Acceptness of the belief takes over for it is the lazy easy way and the difficult learning about our reality becomes less important...
We can train our mind to do things and we can learn the scientific principles vrs believing in things.
And this comes from (a) 'legitimate objective' research(ers)? The title itself is inaccurate and generalizing 'ALL (bogeyman) Atheists' as if the author(s) see(s) all atheists as one person! Nice! Talking about objectivity and integrity! The publisher(s) didn't even bother to add the word 'some' or even 'most' (Atheists) to the title! Clickbating believers? Naughty Maybe we should all believe in flying monsters, hell and heaven so we all live in your 'hell' and you don't have to suffer alone? The article itself admits further on that the (bogeyman) Atheists either choose for science, don't or chose less! "BREAKING NEWS: NOT ALL ATHEISTS ARE NICE, BELIEVE IN SCIENCE, SOME REPORT THEY ARE HUMAN!"
The assumption that Atheists are heartless people is so funny that it reminds me directly of the countless massacres that religions and believers caused through out history and still doing day in day out! Maybe you should next time look for some decent research about how many nonbelievers caused (mass)death and suffering and if you find any compare that to the number and magnitude of the 'peaceful' religion's massacres, pain and sufferings! I guess the publisher(s and most mainstream media) need to say some 'nasty' stuff about 'The bogeyman Atheists' from time to time to keep the believers(especially our Christian friends on earth) happy! Rubbish!
Just because it is labeled evidence based scientific research does not mean it is anything that is actually bono fided, factual, or true!!!
The are two many so called scientists, researchers, laboratories, publishers, and publications that will print anything without actual supporting factual documentation and for Money!!!
Rational seems more to be a tribal bid at being en Masse to support their intentions, whims, or all out scams!!!
Just follow the money, to see who is actually profiting from these so called rational studies and research!!!
We are all humans and we are more irrational than what we think we are.
I've never believed in anything supernatural -- knock on wood.
@Fred_Snerd
Over the years I've played different supernatural methods just for the novelty.
For instance, I tried dousing to decide where to hike to search for treasure.
But I never found anything. I guess I didn't believe hard enough.
@Fred_Snerd
A long time ago at an antique book show, I found a late 1800s spell book -- they were serious and it was fascinating. The book was filled with useful spells.
One I remember was 'Make Your Lover See Your Rival's True Odious Nature'. There was also a big warning for novices -- 'If you accidentally summon a demon and you're not ready, it will eat you'. I never tried any of the spells because they all took months of preparation -- you had to make your magic brazier and your Athame(magic knife) among other things.
And of course again, it wouldn't work for me because I didn't believe. Lol.
The book disappeared from my bookshelf one time when my LDS mother visited. She denied taking it (I didn't press) but I'm sure for the rest of her life she thought she saved me from evil(tm). Ha, ha.